Author Topic: My salt addiction  (Read 340503 times)

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Offline Frankie7799

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #615 on: April 28, 2014, 02:49:29 PM »
Looking good Joe

Offline manta22

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #616 on: April 28, 2014, 02:56:57 PM »
Joe;

Those two top tubes that curve down to the front axle aren't going to do much unless you triangulate them by adding a tube from the curve back down to the chassis. Then tie the curved tubes together at the top of the curve with another tube and triangulate that lateral front bay. These additions will make your chassis far stiffer & stronger.

Clearing the headers might be a problem and the lateral tubes in the front bat may be also but you can make them removable to solve that problem.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline lsrjunkie

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #617 on: April 28, 2014, 03:21:37 PM »
Thanks for the input Neil.

Header clearance won't be an issue with the Jimmy. My exhaust actually runs underneath the front frame rail. What you can't see in those pictures is that those tubes go through the firewall and are tied into the cage at the dash bar. As far as lateral tubes go, There will be at least one in that location for the purpose of mounting the front end, but it will be the same diameter as the rest of the cage.
Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish. The product of a demented hill billy who has found a way to live out where the winds blow. To sleep late, have fun, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love or getting arrested.    H.S. Thompson

Offline manta22

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #618 on: April 28, 2014, 08:31:56 PM »
Joe, you are lucky regarding those headers; we V8 guys are always trying to figure out how to get the headers clear of the chassis members.

Tying those top tubes to the cage is fine but the problem is the curved tube shape. One guy called curved tubes "pre-buckled tubing" and there is lots of truth to that. Any load on the front will cause the tubes to bend (buckle) and that's not a good thing in a crash. Triangulation makes the loads in the tubes either tension or compression-- where the tube is stiff & strong. Loading a tube in bending makes a weak structure.

It's a good thing to make the chassis stiff & strong in all directions. It may seem like a PITA to add a few more tubes but its easier to do it now than later. I hope I'm not being too critical.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline tauruck

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #619 on: April 29, 2014, 03:11:21 AM »
Big Milestone Joe. :cheers:

It looks like a race car and then some.

You did good brother and I'm proud of your never say die attitude.

You have a bright future ahead.

Well done.

Offline lsrjunkie

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #620 on: April 29, 2014, 09:51:35 AM »
Thanks Mikey!
Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish. The product of a demented hill billy who has found a way to live out where the winds blow. To sleep late, have fun, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love or getting arrested.    H.S. Thompson

Offline lsrjunkie

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #621 on: April 29, 2014, 11:10:39 AM »
Neil, I have learned a few things in my tenure of being a punk kid. Granted most of them were learned the hard way...

#1 If you here the same suggestion from more than one person, they may be right.

#2 If some one that has been around a little longer than yourself tells you something, it's probably a good idea to listen.

#3... Uumm... Well maybe my list isn't as long as I thought. Any way, the point I'm trying to make is you are not being critical at all. I appreciate the input from others on this project.
With out that input I may not have made it as far as I have. So, that being said,  Thank you Neil!

For the record, critical would be something along the lines of "Hey you dumb a$$ kid, why the hell did you do that? It'll never work that way ya dummy."
Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish. The product of a demented hill billy who has found a way to live out where the winds blow. To sleep late, have fun, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love or getting arrested.    H.S. Thompson

Offline manta22

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #622 on: April 29, 2014, 11:47:05 AM »
If we're smart, we never stop being curious and never stop learning... no matter how old we are. I've done lots of things wrong and learned what not to do the hard way-- such as leaning over too close to my oxy-acetylene torch and setting my hair on fire.  :-D

You project looks great and I'm looking forward to seeing it on the Salt.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Sumner

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #623 on: April 29, 2014, 11:52:00 AM »


I'll take a slightly different approach to the down tube area.  As long as the cage area is done according to the book with well triangulated tubing I wouldn't worry about these forward tubes and the bend in them as long as the bottom rails along with these down tubes make the chassis strong enough for the job.  

In a severe crash folding ahead of the cage could absorb a lot of energy.  Now saying that when Hooley extended the chassis on his Stude by 2 feet and had similar down bars he added diagonals to the area we are talking about, as Niel mentioned, to help the overall chassis strength and to help supplement the load on the extended lower rails.

I don't see a problem adding diagonals in that area but with your current wheel base if the bottom rails are strong enough along with the down tubes I don't feel they are needed,

Sum
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 11:53:34 AM by Sumner »

Offline manta22

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #624 on: April 29, 2014, 12:10:56 PM »
Sumner has a good point about energy absorption in a crash but bending an already bent tube doesn't take much energy. We disagree but then it takes two to make a horse race, doesn't it?

I'd make the front structure stiff & strong by adding tubes as I've indicated it this photo. The blue tubes are the ones to triangulate the bent upper tubes, the red tubes triangulate the front, making it resistant to being pushed in sideways, and the green tube triangulates the engine bay. It might not be possible to put the green tube in place, depending on the height of your engine but if you can, it will help. A removable tube is usually used to make it possible to pull the engine from the top rather than drop it out the bottom.

Bent tube top rails are used a lot in sand rail chassis but popularity doesn't overcome basic physics.  :roll:

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Sumner

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #625 on: April 29, 2014, 12:32:31 PM »
... We disagree but then it takes two to make a horse race, doesn't it?

True and I'm still in the race  :-D.



There is no doubt that the bracing you are showing will make the engine compartment and car stronger but will it protect the driver more?  We want the car to be structurally strong enough to safely run and I think that can be accomplished without that bracing.

I'd concentrate safety wise on the driver's compartment and the cage there.  The rule book doesn't show any required structure ahead of the cage for the driver.  NASCAR does a pretty good job of protecting their drivers and you can see the whole fronts of the cars getting ripped off and the driver gets out and walks away,

Sum

Offline manta22

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #626 on: April 29, 2014, 01:57:44 PM »
Try this experiment-- put a jack under the front corner (L or R, it doesn't make a difference) and raise it up enough that a wheel clears the floor. See how much the chassis flexes. When a chassis flexes (twists), nothing good happens. You don't want to build a high- speed "Flexible Flyer".

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #627 on: April 29, 2014, 02:37:33 PM »
Try this experiment-- put a jack under the front corner (L or R, it doesn't make a difference) and raise it up enough that a wheel clears the floor. See how much the chassis flexes. When a chassis flexes (twists), nothing good happens. You don't want to build a high- speed "Flexible Flyer".

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

That depends on whether the car uses front suspension. It doesn't appear that at this point the car is using front suspension although that may be just appearance as the front end isn't finished. I like suspension all round, coming from an oval track and road race background, but I know others who have run on the salt for a long time will differ.

Pete

Offline tauruck

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #628 on: April 29, 2014, 09:11:00 PM »
Joe, this is what they're saying you should do.

Offline manta22

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Re: My salt addiction
« Reply #629 on: April 29, 2014, 09:19:11 PM »
Try this experiment-- put a jack under the front corner (L or R, it doesn't make a difference) and raise it up enough that a wheel clears the floor. See how much the chassis flexes. When a chassis flexes (twists), nothing good happens. You don't want to build a high- speed "Flexible Flyer".

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

That depends on whether the car uses front suspension. It doesn't appear that at this point the car is using front suspension although that may be just appearance as the front end isn't finished. I like suspension all round, coming from an oval track and road race background, but I know others who have run on the salt for a long time will differ.

Pete

Pete;

Chassis flex doesn't depend on having a suspension or not. It is the chassis itself that twists and/or bends when one corner is jacked up. Consider what happens when a car gets out of shape at speed-- weight shifts from one front wheel to the other (leaving out the rear for this example) and if the chassis is flexible you are winding up a giant spring that's going to unwind and it won't do your car's handling any good at all. Whee-- round and round we go....

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ