Author Topic: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles  (Read 28028 times)

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Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 06:38:12 PM »
I wonder if there's a class for that?

BG/Couch

Dave

1 Vote for the new class, as well as 1 order from the next batch of blowers.   :cheers:
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 06:45:41 PM »
Blown and Couch bring back way old memories.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline wickedwagens

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 11:37:11 PM »
I believe this is a smog pump from a 68'-69' Porsche 912.
1968 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
G/CFALT  106.643 MPH  8/2016    G/CGALT  113.131 MPH  9/2016
G/CBGALT  169.462  MPH  8/2021    G/CBFALT  146.715  MPH  8/2017
G/CBGC  158.242  MPH  9/2017   H/CBGC  94.334 MPH  8/2018
H/CPRO  93.383 MPH  8/2018   H/CBFALT  101.282 MPH 9/2018
H/CBGALT  120.591 MPH 9/2018
Top Speed 170.726 MPH
36hp VW 100 mph club 9/2019 102.319 MPH

Offline grumm441

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 12:17:00 AM »
Blown and Couch bring back way old memories.

too much information
G
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https://www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 12:34:26 AM »
I believe this is a smog pump from a 68'-69' Porsche 912.

oh so you mean they're cheap and easy to find... cool.
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 01:18:29 AM »
Are the rotor lobes shaped (cross-section) generally like those of a Jimmy blower? Two-lobe? Three-lobe? I'm guessing they aren't helical rotors?
M/T Pontiac hemi guru
F/BFL 1-mile Loring record 2020

Offline wickedwagens

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 03:13:07 PM »

Quote
"In 2004, a fellow by the name of Fritz Kott set an AMA record at Bonneville on his 750cc flathead Harley using this very same pump."

Quote
" I raced a blown Honda S-90 in the seventies for 2 years with the same smog pump (blower) at Bonneville. I worked for Porsche & VW then & these little blowers came to the U.S. on ’68 or ’69 912 Porsches as a smog pump. I wondered then why a U.S. made pump came from Germany on a new Porsche 912 but looking back it was probably a stop-gap measure to make the car meet tightening smog laws. They were driven at about 2:1 with a vee belt on the 912’s and they didn’t live too long (20-30k miles) spinning up to about 12k rpm. What happened was the bearings in the gears ran out of oil and it seized up and broke the belt. It is just a small roots blower with straight steel lobes and sealed bearings at one end. We threw a lot of them away and most owners didn’t put them back on in the Midwest. They didn’t appear to be something you could rebuild. You should be able to find one at some small old Porsche shops.

On the S-90 I drove it with a small chain on the generator side at about 1:1, and that was too much boost. It would make 20psi very quickly. Trying to supercharge a single-cylinder small motor is very difficult. It becomes a rhythmic, surging, pulsing, tuning nightmare. I tried blow-through, draw-through, long manifolds, very long manifolds, short ones, and all kinds of plenums. The surge was very violent. It accelerated like a 350cc, really pulling hard, and the next second it would shut off – about throwing you over the handlebars. It felt like the carb quit flowing air momentarily. We finally got it reasonable by making a plenum out of ½ of a propane torch cylinder with Homelite pyramid reed valves on each end to keep the charge going in the right direction. There was another guy from (I think) Riverside CA. doing the same thing and I think his name was Fletcher Izzard, also with an S-90.
I had no problems at all with the blower. I would say it’s not going to pressurize much more than a 200cc 4 stroke motor because it can’t flow enough volume of air. I ported mine a little bit.
The man that rode my bike was Mike McCann (Lisbon IA) who is the man with the large white sun block on his nose pushing Burt Munroe off the line in the out-takes of The World’s Fastest Indian movie. I then was the young guy hanging out at the old Chevy garage in Wendover during Speed Week listening to all these old guys, Burt, Mike, Rollie Free, and others drinking beer and bench racing - telling tall stories. It doesn’t get any better than that!
Bvilletom
Tom Bruch

Some info I found on another site.
1968 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
G/CFALT  106.643 MPH  8/2016    G/CGALT  113.131 MPH  9/2016
G/CBGALT  169.462  MPH  8/2021    G/CBFALT  146.715  MPH  8/2017
G/CBGC  158.242  MPH  9/2017   H/CBGC  94.334 MPH  8/2018
H/CPRO  93.383 MPH  8/2018   H/CBFALT  101.282 MPH 9/2018
H/CBGALT  120.591 MPH 9/2018
Top Speed 170.726 MPH
36hp VW 100 mph club 9/2019 102.319 MPH

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2013, 01:02:51 AM »
Thanks for the photos.
Any idea who it was made by? The quote in the previous post refers to it as a "US made pump", but post#1 of this thread says "made by VW". :?

Edit: Looking back to the other pictures now, I see the VW logo.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 01:05:29 AM by Jack Gifford »
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F/BFL 1-mile Loring record 2020

Offline wickedwagens

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2013, 02:25:34 AM »
The smog pump was made for VW by the Midland Ross Company in the late '60s.
Here is the 1966 patent information.http://www.google.com/patents?id=HBsdAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1965&dq=3275225#v=onepage&q=3275225&f=false
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 02:30:27 AM by wickedwagens »
1968 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
G/CFALT  106.643 MPH  8/2016    G/CGALT  113.131 MPH  9/2016
G/CBGALT  169.462  MPH  8/2021    G/CBFALT  146.715  MPH  8/2017
G/CBGC  158.242  MPH  9/2017   H/CBGC  94.334 MPH  8/2018
H/CPRO  93.383 MPH  8/2018   H/CBFALT  101.282 MPH 9/2018
H/CBGALT  120.591 MPH 9/2018
Top Speed 170.726 MPH
36hp VW 100 mph club 9/2019 102.319 MPH

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 12:33:06 AM »
bummer..... Ive been lookin for one pf those pumps for quite a while....
kent

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2013, 02:38:49 AM »
That patent by Forrest Schultz leaves me a little puzzled. Even the title "Fluid Compressor"; eveyone else seems to agree that Roots blowers aren't 'compressors'. And I fail to see the uniqueness of the "reduced leakage" claim. But I do need to go back and try to better understand his geometric expressions of the rotor shapes- that is, after I consult a dictionary for "hypocycloidal"!
M/T Pontiac hemi guru
F/BFL 1-mile Loring record 2020

Offline redhotracing

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2013, 05:11:06 PM »
I may be interested in this for my 145cc Tecumseh powered Rupp mini bike...
It's a jack shaft setup, maybe run the blower off of that? Would be a whole lot
of fun and glorious noise at seven grand  :-D
Luke- Winston Salem, NC
Loring 2 Club- 201.252 (2010)
Ohio 2 Club- 203.712 (2013)

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2013, 05:54:00 PM »
"hypocycloidal"?

Is that having sex under water?
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2013, 07:18:07 PM »
NO, Stan -- I think it's a word that describes an octopus' mental imaginings of underperformance.
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline Kiwi Paul

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Re: Tiny Roots Blower for "Tiddler" motorcycles
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 12:01:03 AM »
Isn`t it a very large African animal riding a bicycle? :lol: