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Author Topic: Block fill  (Read 12801 times)

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Offline 38flattie

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Block fill
« on: January 07, 2013, 10:34:57 AM »
Does anyone know of a non-intrusive block fill that could be used? That is to say, a block fill that would not 'shift' the cylinders, and cause a rebore?

I'm thinking if I could find one, I could benifit from a partially filled block.
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Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 11:11:00 AM »
I've never used this stuff, but I've read that a non-shrinking machinery grout called Embeco 885 works well as a block filler. I assume that the "non-shrinking" part is what makes it better than regular block fillers like HardBlok. Here are a couple of links:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1318888691/EMBECO+885

http://rlrowan.com/embeco-885

Again, I have no experience with it, but it might be something to look into...

Gary
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 04:56:25 PM »
Thanks Gary!

I'm going to see if I can find a suitable material, and half-fill the block.
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline racergeo

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 06:16:51 PM »
  I know of an excellent product I've use many times. It is called Rok Block and we saw it demo'ed at a trade show. In glass vails some products expanded and broke the vail others shrunk. This product expands at the same rate as cast iron and won't cause any effects other then added cylinder support. With a thick cylinder wall you probable don't even have to rehone it. Just follow the instructions. Best place to buy it , Competition Products.
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Offline Glen

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 07:16:37 PM »
What racergeorge said, used it in many chrys. blocks
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Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 12:01:11 AM »
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 04:49:09 PM »
Thanks everyone-I'll check them out!
 
This is azz backwards, but....
 
My biggest concerns at this point our the cylinder walls, and sealing the dang heads. We can modify the chambers to use Cometic gaskets, but there is still no guarantee.
 
I'd like to dry deck this thing, but we won't have time.
 
...unless I do things azz backwards! Instead of half filling the block, what if I filled the top 2", effectively dry decking it? I think it would help me on the added cylinder pressure, and with my head gasket sealing problems.I'm sure we would have adequate cooling on fuel, but I'm not sure on gas.
 
The H2O injection, however, might help us out in that department.
 
Now, blast away!
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 05:35:01 PM »
Buddy,

Have used Texcrete and epoxy compounds in many blocks with good results.   If you fill the top 2 inches of the block to stiffen the deck, etc, how will the exhaust valve seat be cooled?   It's not like an 8 second drag run.......

Just a thought....
 :cheers:
F/B
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 05:53:02 PM »
Quote from: fordboy628 on January 08, 2013, 05:35:01 PM
Buddy,

Have used Texcrete and epoxy compounds in many blocks with good results.   If you fill the top 2 inches of the block to stiffen the deck, etc, how will the exhaust valve seat be cooled?   It's not like an 8 second drag run.......

Just a thought....
 :cheers:
F/B

...and therein lies the rub! For every issue I solve, at least one more pops up. I'm looking to optimize my options, and go with the lesser of two evils.

That is something I'm still trying to figure out. Any ideas???

Still, If we do everything like everyone else, we'll produce the same results. I tend to use the proverbial 'box' as a stepping stool!
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 05:57:28 PM »
Paint.

Floor.

Corner.

Angle fill?
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Offline racergeo

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 12:50:38 AM »
   I alway thought of block filling as an attempt to staballize the cylinder wall for ring seal . You'll nead to build a torque plate for your engine and have it on the block while you hone a few tenths out of the cyinders for true and you grind the seats if its a flat head. I have my SBC bow tie filled to within a couple of inches of the top of the block but I run N.A. on gas. A cooling system with enough flow and pressure is critical.
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 01:35:08 AM »
Quote from: fordboy628 on January 08, 2013, 05:35:01 PM
If you fill the top 2 inches of the block to stiffen the deck, etc, how will the exhaust valve seat be cooled?   

I wouldn't take all the heat away from the valves, but some additional cooling could be brought to bear by machining and building water jackets on top of the heads.  The head is aluminum, so it would tend to draw heat out of the block, and you could skew the passages in such a way that they favored the valve side of the head.  Then drill vents through the epoxy by the exhaust valve, direct it into the passage you've created on the head, and draw it back into the tank.

A variation on one of Fordboy's BMC cooling ideas.

Maybe?

Just a thought . . .
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 10:08:26 AM »
Quote from: racergeo on January 09, 2013, 12:50:38 AM
  I alway thought of block filling as an attempt to staballize the cylinder wall for ring seal . You'll nead to build a torque plate for your engine and have it on the block while you hone a few tenths out of the cyinders for true and you grind the seats if its a flat head. I have my SBC bow tie filled to within a couple of inches of the top of the block but I run N.A. on gas. A cooling system with enough flow and pressure is critical.

We have a torque plate, so that is no problem.

Honing a few tenths out of the cylinders would be though! :wink:
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline ronnieroadster

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 07:44:01 PM »
Hi Budy
 The Ford flathead I ran last year was partially filled with hardblock filler to eliminate the water leakage into the cylinders where the typical valve seat cracks materialize in the Ford block. Since I ran the block previously {pre cracks} all the machine work was already completed. I found no issues with cylinder bore diameter reduction from the filler or any valve seat distortion issues and after running the block with the filler the water did not leak into the oil a step in the right direction.
   The hardblock brand filler includes iron and some type of epoxy it flows relatively well levels nicely and the epoxy some how covers the exposed surface of the filler leaving a smooth surface. In the areas where I wanted the water in the block to flow to the head I used duck seal type of putty to fill the area before putting the filler in. After the filler was hard I just removed the putty thus allowing coolant to flow where needed. Just wanted to put my two cents into this discussion.
 Ron
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Offline flatman

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Re: Block fill
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 09:46:00 PM »
I believel that you spoke with Rick Schnell. I believe he fills his block with aluminum.
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