Author Topic: Nitro And Superchargers!  (Read 22344 times)

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Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2013, 03:55:12 PM »
38,
what do you mean by fattening the fuel return by .1 ?
bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events

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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2013, 04:03:01 PM »
38,
what do you mean by fattening the fuel return by .1 ?


Haha! I meant by .010! I corrected it. So, you would decrease the return pill by that much.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 04:05:24 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2013, 04:12:57 PM »
having a hard time posting on 3g for some reason.

after thinking more,  it seems like it was for fuel injection and pill size.
another subject I'm not well versed in.

better to find out now about the difference in the sizes than with a running engine.
bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007

Offline John Burk

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2013, 04:19:48 PM »
Nitro air/fuel is odd . Lean is bad , a little rich is good , very rich is very bad (at least for unblown) and very very rich is where the big power is . Very very rich is where modern top fuelers , the unblown nitro TAD dragsters and the Davidson roadster are . With very rich being so bad no wonder it took a while for very very rich to be discovered .

Offline JustaRacer

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2013, 04:40:26 PM »
IIRC, the temps and pressure at full scream will cause nitromethane to burn without free oxygen if it's super rich and has consumed all the air.  That's where the hydrogen comes from that burns out of the zoomies, burning nitro with no air makes free hydrogen gas, which would normally become water if there were more air.  So the hydrogen burns AFTER it leaves the pipe.  Flame temp goes down, but cyl pressure goes up.  All molecules take up about the same room when they are a gas (liquids don't burn), so when H2O is made, the temp goes up, but volume goes down.

Or I might have misunderstood what I was told.  I know nothing about it other than it's expensive, won't mix with diesel, and will dissolve super-glue.
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Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline JustaRacer

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2013, 06:13:17 PM »
Sidebar:  Turbocharging is the best form of supercharging when there is head flow limitations.  The exhaust gases are always compressed, so sound waves move faster, and port size isn't as much a handicap.  Methanol + high boost turbocharging can go >10HP/CI.  Pretty sure your hard parts won't hold what a max effort turbo/meth setup will hit. 

Nitro with a roots blower will certainly make huge power, but might not be the cost effective solution for any given HP level.
My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2013, 06:17:40 PM »
Sidebar:  Turbocharging is the best form of supercharging when there is head flow limitations.  The exhaust gases are always compressed, so sound waves move faster, and port size isn't as much a handicap.  Methanol + high boost turbocharging can go >10HP/CI.  Pretty sure your hard parts won't hold what a max effort turbo/meth setup will hit. 

Nitro with a roots blower will certainly make huge power, but might not be the cost effective solution for any given HP level.

I totally agree with you, and that is the plan once we are able to move to special construction.

As long as we continue to run a vintage class, though, we can't run a turbo.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline JustaRacer

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2013, 06:25:40 PM »
Sidebar:  Turbocharging is the best form of supercharging when there is head flow limitations.  The exhaust gases are always compressed, so sound waves move faster, and port size isn't as much a handicap.  Methanol + high boost turbocharging can go >10HP/CI.  Pretty sure your hard parts won't hold what a max effort turbo/meth setup will hit. 

Nitro with a roots blower will certainly make huge power, but might not be the cost effective solution for any given HP level.

I totally agree with you, and that is the plan once we are able to move to special construction.

As long as we continue to run a vintage class, though, we can't run a turbo.

Odd since turbocharging started in 1905.  But rules are rules.
My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2013, 06:35:57 PM »
Just how fast is the World's Fastest?

Ex-Coltonite wants to know.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2013, 06:39:30 PM »
At Bandimere's,5800' above sea level, just outside of Denver, he ran a 8.24 @ 167.75 MPH
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2013, 06:42:26 PM »
Sidebar:  Turbocharging is the best form of supercharging when there is head flow limitations. 

Nevertheless, an obstruction is still an obstruction, regardless if the engine is under boost or not.  Unnecessary boost, be it from a blower or a turbo, restricted by the flow of the intake port and head design, requires more power to fill the intake, and produces more heat doing so.  Additionally, seeing as both the intake and the exhaust ports are on the same side, additional heat is being transferred to the charge from the adjacent ports.  

Buddy, I seem to recall a rework on the head was under consideration when you were doing the flow numbers and dye tests.  Did I miss a post?  I know it's an arduous path the charge is taking on this engine, but the more you can free up the flow, the less artificial atmosphere you'll need to make power.

This engine scares the hell out of me - that's why I love it . . .  :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2013, 06:47:47 PM »
Chris, we are making the mod to the chambers, that the flow bench showed improved flow. In addition, the chamber is being set .12" 'deeper' into the head, so that we have the proper clearance with the Cometic gaskets.

The engine doesn't scare me, but having to use mass amounts of kitty litter does! :?
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Nitro And Superchargers!
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2013, 02:12:21 AM »
... he ran a 8.24 @ 167.75 MPH...
That's way short of putting the major fraction of 900 HP to the track. Just sayin'...
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