Author Topic: solid front wheel material  (Read 15128 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fastlammy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
solid front wheel material
« on: December 22, 2012, 11:10:56 PM »
Hi All,

Im currently in the early planning stages of wanting to build a lambretta scooter powered streamliner, Ive recently found an aircraft rear tire the exceeds my requirments for my 175cc powerplant i have planned, but i'm now considering using a 18" Dia solid front wheel to overcome the same small wheel problem,would like to know, other than having an alloy wheel machined are there any other materials that have been used succefully?ie: any plastics, nylons or Composites.

thanks in advance for your time and idea's

Nicholai

Offline interested bystander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 997
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2012, 11:38:44 PM »
Don't think solid FRONT wheels are legal, but other than involvement with one MC liner that never got a time slip, I be a car guy.
5 mph in pit area (clothed)

Offline Jon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 852
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2012, 12:43:16 AM »
Hi FastLammy

Was waiting for you to turn up.

There's a few Alloy front wheels been run, just need to be designed so they don't cut up the salt, do you have a SCTA & DLRA rule book?

You going to cross the small ditch or the big one to run?

Cheers
jon
Underhouse Engineering
Luck = Opportunity + Preparation^3

Offline fastlammy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2012, 04:16:19 AM »
Hi Jon

Yes i have SCTA book and i should print another copy of the DLRA one as i did have one, Plan was to cross the big ditch as most of the kiwis all go to states and i should be able to find some one with some room in there container.have found some good photos of ez-hooks front wheel, but im looking at different ideas that will get the rotating mass down, have found a composite rim for the rear, just need to confirm that it can be run at 100psi to match the spec's of the aircraft tire i want to use.

Offline Jon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 852
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2012, 02:18:53 PM »
Cool
May want to check with the rules committee about the aircraft tyre and get something in writing, very touchy subject.

If you have an SCTA rule book there's no need to have a DLRA one, we're the same just a year behind.
Downloading a BUB-AMA one is probably worthwhile, it's not hard to comply with both and gives more options after the ditch crossing.

Last time I walked about over here I could have sworn most kiwis came over here ;).

cheers
jon
Underhouse Engineering
Luck = Opportunity + Preparation^3

Offline fastlammy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2012, 04:47:58 PM »
Thanks Jon

because of the tire issues, im taking time to make sure all my i's are doted and 'st are crossed

Offline kiwi belly tank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3133
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 11:48:22 AM »
I'm wondering why you're even considering solid wheels for your build. Most people don't go there unless there is no suitable tire for their application.
  Sid.

Offline ol38y

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 686
  • When all else fails, gas it!
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2013, 12:37:41 PM »
Yeah, was wondering how fast he plans on going myself...  :cheers:
Larry Cason
Bakersfield,CA    It's a dry heat!

2010 BUB 1350 M-PG record
2012 Speedweek  1350 A-PG record 169.975
2014 El Mirage Dry Lake  1350 A-PG  172.651

Offline fastlammy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 08:15:54 PM »
I'm wondering why you're even considering solid wheels for your build. Most people don't go there unless there is no suitable tire for their application.
  Sid.

That's mainly why I'm wanting to do it as my rear wheel is only a 10" rim and i want to keep the frontal area to a minimum, and a solid wheel seamed like a good way around the problem. 

Offline JustaRacer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 06:23:48 AM »
Trivia -

The front tires for small jets are small OD, but they are wide.  I gave a brand new one to Willy (RIP).

The smallest are about 13.5" OD, but with very heavy weight rating, and very high speed rating.  They start out at 180mph, and 3000lb.  I'd be surprised if they did not take over 250mph in a ground vehicle.  Their speed rating is done at full weight but will safely absorb 3 times their weight rating on impact at full speed, then there is a safety factor added to it.  

I did not write down which model I gave Willy, but if you go the aircraft route, the 13.5 x 6 -4 14-ply jet tire looks like the smallest high speed tire.

I do not know why they frown on jet tires.  Perhaps because they are worried people will run ones that were taken out of service?


EDIT if you need 18" OD, 18 x 4.4 -10 is rated at 210mph.

$50 new - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goodyear-18x4-4-Aircraft-Tire-Sabreliner-Lockheed-Jet-Star-/121046639032?pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&hash=item1c2ef121b8&vxp=mtr

You will have to machine off the water flange.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 06:31:21 AM by JustaRacer »
My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline kiwi belly tank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3133
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 11:52:20 AM »
The way the salt has been at Gairdner, he might want to keep the water flange on. :roll:
But seriously, looks doable if you whittle some weight off it but like Ozzy Jon said, get approval before you build around it.

Nicholai, if you are interested in this tire, shipping that muther to NZ might get a little spendy.
If you want to arrange for one of the Kiwi's going to SW to take it down, you could ship it to me & I could pass it on at the salt.
Another option would be to send it to Kiwi Shipping in So Cal & get it a ride down in one of their containers.
  Sid.

Offline JustaRacer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 12:25:05 PM »
Sidebar, that tire should be for a 10" dia rim, but you need to make/buy the 2-piece tubeless wheel, it won't mount on a one piece rim.  Even a rebuilt jet wheel is $$$, so fabrication is perhaps the only option.  They are heavy don't remember the weight, but heavy, and rigid.  I can't deflect an unmounted tire by pushing down on it.

Pretty sure now that is the same size I gave Willy, because I miss-read the tire chart and thought it was for an 18" dia wheel and very tall.  There are at least 3 ways aircraft tires are designated, so make sure you know what you are buying.  

To be honest, I don't trust the Mickey Thompson Bonnevilles for heavy vehicles.  I ran them because I had to, not because I thought it was safe.  There aren't enough plies in them for heavy loads, and would be easy to puncture.  I was going to run jet tires, but was discouraged from doing so.  Jet tires are pretty safe unless you lock up the wheel with several thousand pounds on it at 200+ mph on pavement.  Even then, they don't always fail.  They can't come unseated, and the sidewall is so stiff, a car probably would not be able to hit the rim even with no air in it.

EDIT - I have a hunch why the SCTA frowns on jet tires.  I was doing a little reading, and the mfr's put a "not recommended for ground vehicles" disclaimer in their catalogs, unless you do the engineering calculations first.  Thing is, it is unlikely that an LSR vehicle could ever get close to full deflection on a jet tire.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 01:11:58 PM by JustaRacer »
My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline fastlammy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 06:53:09 PM »
Hi Guys

Thanks for your reply,the Goodyear website has been very helpful with online info, and Ive downloaded the aircraft tire catalog, Ive been looking at a 18-4.25-10 tire, but i still want to find out if i will need to run the high pressure as advertised in the specs as I'm not going to have the same loaded as an aircraft, the tire listed above requires the least pressure out of the best suitable(100psi 2300 lbs rating 210 mph) and most importantly is not to big to fit on my lambretta engine casings.with regards to a rim I'm currently looking into using a Hiper composite rim which is. 3pc  http://hiperracingwheels.com/  I plan on making my chassis with my legs either side of the forks, same as the bubbfab bike. this was why i thought running a solid wheel would be a good idea as it would give me more room as i could run nice narrow forks.

Offline Glen

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7024
  • SCTA/BNI timer 1983 to 2004, Retired,. Crew on Tur
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 08:04:58 PM »
Two questions
1... Is this a streamliner?
2....Have you contacted with anyone on the SCTA motorcycle committee with the the wheel   &  Issue and size. If so get it in writing.
Good luck on your build.
Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah

Offline jdincau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: solid front wheel material
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 08:18:10 PM »
Search this site for Gene burklands comments on aircraft tires at high speed. In spin testing F-16 tires for possible use on their streamliner the heavy beads on the aircraft tires were their weak point. Because of the bead reinforcement weight they expanded radialy and deflated the tire at high RPM.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!