« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?  (Read 7701 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« on: December 01, 2012, 11:45:42 AM »
Currently, my car is running in the Vintage XXO/BVGALT and XXO/BVGCC classes.

Vintage class does dot allow the use of computer controlled ignitions, which I wish to run at El Mirage. If I add a boost referenced MSD box, and use our computer to control timing curves and fuel, would I then be legal in XXO/BGALT, AND XXO/BGCC,or would I be a 'time only' car?

I did send this question off to the proper committee chairs, but I thought someone on the board might be able to add some insight on this.

Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline jimmy six

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2788
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 10:54:17 AM »
IMO you would run with later model vehicles when using an ignition, or any other item, which is not allowed in Vintage Car classes. I believe it has been done that way in the past........Good Luck.JD
Logged
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 08:00:01 AM »
Thanks JD!

Hopefully, it works that way. I'm still waiting on an official ruling.
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline glc311

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • Road Runners (SCTA)
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »
Hi Buddy - Just sent you a private message with a contact phone number.
Logged

Offline NathanStewart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 12:08:34 AM »
Quote from: 38flattie on December 01, 2012, 11:45:42 AM
Currently, my car is running in the Vintage XXO/BVGALT and XXO/BVGCC classes.

Vintage class does dot allow the use of computer controlled ignitions, which I wish to run at El Mirage. If I add a boost referenced MSD box, and use our computer to control timing curves and fuel, would I then be legal in XXO/BGALT, AND XXO/BGCC,or would I be a 'time only' car?

I did send this question off to the proper committee chairs, but I thought someone on the board might be able to add some insight on this.



buddy, i think you'd oust yourself from all potential classes.  if not legal for vintage engine you'd run in displacement class.  well there is no such thing has a vintage altered with a non-vintage engine so you could then maybe run classic but classic says only a single distributor or mag can be used.  no computerized ignitions allowed in classic either.  don't think you'll qualify for regular altered class either because of the year of your car. 

why go through all that trouble to run an msd ignition system?  why not lock the timing out like many (most) had done for decades before anything computerized even existed?
Logged
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 06:44:31 PM »
Nathan,

At Bonneville, we will run the mag setup, to stay in Vintage class. I'm happy to run in that class, and could care less about the computer.

However, the engine will soon go into a special construction car, where these mods will be legal. I'll spend 2 days as a rookie in May, so that would give me time to test and tune the engine. If I could make the move to the modified comp coupe and altered class, I could run the rest of the season there competitively, and have a good tune on with the computerized ignition.

Hope this makes sense!
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline NathanStewart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2012, 12:55:06 AM »
Ah I see.  So you want to run a vintage engine in a vintage car but not run in the vintage body class, yes?  Hmmm... interesting.  Yeah, I dunno 'bout that.  Run it past the appropriate officials I guess.
Logged
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline Turbofan

  • New folks
  • Posts: 10
  • Martin
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2012, 08:48:04 PM »
Can you Rookie in a time only car?
Logged
"Live more in 5 minutes on a bike like this than some people do in a lifetime"... and on a bike as slow as mine, the mile does seem to take 5 minutes!

Offline NathanStewart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 09:11:35 PM »
Yes.
Logged
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 07:21:52 PM »
Quote from: NathanStewart on December 13, 2012, 12:55:06 AM
Ah I see.  So you want to run a vintage engine in a vintage car but not run in the vintage body class, yes?  Hmmm... interesting.  Yeah, I dunno 'bout that.  Run it past the appropriate officials I guess.

I submitted the question 3 weeks ago, and now I'm just waiting on their reply. I'll post up the answer.
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

LittleLiner

  • Guest
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 10:15:05 PM »
Quote from: NathanStewart on December 08, 2012, 12:08:34 AM
. . .   don't think you'll qualify for regular altered class either because of the year of your car. . .

True, the Flatcad can't run as a Modified category Altered because you aren't running front fenders.  Those fenders are required in Modified Altered. . . . . 99 percent of the time Nathan is right but I think he is slightly off on this one . . . The year of the car is not the issue. 

The first sentence in the 2013 rules for Modified . . . .(see http://www.landracing.com/docs/2013_rule_changes_cars.pdf )
5.D MODIFIED CATEGORY
American coupes and sedans 1928 to current year, foreign coupes and sedans 1949 to current year and 1928-1981 American coupes and sedans that do not meet the requirements for Classic Category.

So the age of the car is OK in Modified but without fenders you would be in the Modified Category's Competition Coupe classes.  Remember to install the belly pan because the lack of fenders pushes you out of altered but not into Comp Coupe

And since the engine would not be legit in the XXO class after you add the computer stuff/etc I'd guess you would run in the displacement class for non vintage engines.

Assuming that I am right . . you would be running as a Blown Gas Comp Coupe.  The class record at El Mirage is north of 200mph.  Does the car meet all the safety requirements for 200+ mph?   There is about zero chance you will get into impound running for that record.  . . . which leads to the question - Why do you even want to do this?   

What is the downside to running Time Only for the testing with the computer engine setup? 

« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 10:22:39 PM by LittleLiner »
Logged

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 10:36:37 PM »
Littleliner, like Nathan, I believe you are partially correct, and partially wrong, based on how I read the rulebook.

If I bolt the front fenders back on, I believe I would qualify for the altered class.

I also don't believe I would have to run displacement- I believe I could run XXO. Engine management, as explained to me, and from what I can find in the rulebook, and have witnessed on the salt, ONLY applies to Vintage class-it's allowed in the modified class.

As to what the advantage is, I'm happy to go into detail on that, if and when I get the green light to run in these classes. It's not hard to figure out though, if you look at the rulebook a little more in depth! :evil:

As for "There is about zero chance you will get into impound running for that record", don't count us out just because we're talking 200 MPH +. When you see the next dyno results, you may well change your mind-we've played our big cards pretty close to the vest! :-D
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 10:40:29 PM by 38flattie »
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

LittleLiner

  • Guest
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 11:13:59 PM »
Quote from: 38flattie on December 20, 2012, 10:36:37 PM
Littleliner . .  I believe you are partially correct, and partially wrong, . . . .
  Probably the understatement of the century :-D

If you can run at Elmo in XXO/BGALT and/or XXO/BGCC, I can clearly see your point . . . .

One of these days I gotta come over to Greeley . . . .
Logged

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 11:46:59 PM »
Come on over!


Ok, here's the deal- I'm taking the Smokey Yunick approach! That's to say, I'm looking at the rules, and trying to make them work for me.

I'm trying to take a 73 year old flathead V-8 200 MPH. I don't think I can get there with the vintage restrictions, so I need to 'cheat', in order to try and get the engine to survive. Engine manegement would help, and so would alcohol. In order to use engine management, I need to switch classes.

I don't think I can run 200 at El Mirage, but I think I can run the BGALT 160 MPH minimum. I may even be able to make a run at the BGCC 170 min, or possibly the the BFCC 185 minimum.

El Mirage would allow us to get some good test and tunes on the car, while running competitively.At Bonneville, when we go all out for 200 MPH, I think I'll need the fuel and engine management-probably some pop in the tank, too!
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Class Change From Vintage To Modified?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 06:18:00 PM »
Ok, the electonics allow me to move to XXO/BFCC!
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »