Author Topic: Record qualifying on rookie run  (Read 13487 times)

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Offline Glen

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2012, 01:58:32 PM »
Have you read the El Mirage operating procedures, if not they are posted on the SCTA web site and cover the reasons for the rookie rules etc. Some of this will be updated after the 1st of the year. Do you belong to a club yet. The Comp Coupe builds are very specific and need to followed. Asking a lot of questions is a good thing. Print everything you discuss and keep it in a note book (SCTA/BNI Log book) along with photos and any input from the rules committee during the build.
Have fun and see you on the lakes or salt.
Glen
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Offline JustaRacer

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2012, 02:05:23 PM »
I kind of had in mind the two day races, in May and November.  I agree that a first timer should spend a day relaxing and learning what it is like to drive, no record allowed  But on two day races I was thinking the first day could be rookie qualification, and then Sunday could go for a record.  While that may seem overly optimistic, my car has already gone 10-20 mph faster than six records in it's engine size on the books, and that was before tuning and obvious easy drag reduction (syn oil eng&trans, electric water pump, dry sump oil, correct header, etc and wrong gears.)

My feeling is that there aren't enough of these races, when you take into account the races that get cancelled, or are just poor days to race (weather), and the fact that I also drag race, and I have at least one conflict next year, and I need to drag race that day as I was the champ in my class last year.  I will probably have another conflict with El Mirage when I make the division finals.

All that allowing a record run on the second day is doing is effectively giving another race day to a rookie, instead of the existing rule that states that a rookie is a rookie whether it is a one day race or two.

I'm just trying to speed things up a bit.  I want to get accomplished what I can with the existing motor, and then I want to try two other engine sizes in the car, and I don't want this to take a decade.

You get more than a single run in a day unless something goes wrong.  Usually about 3.

Run the rookie pass, then get back in staging and let 'er rip.  You can set a record in a single day normally.

Essentially, you show up on Saturday, then tech the car.  Then go to the rookie meeting that evening.

Sun AM, you get in the rookie line and do not exceed 150mph under any conditions.  If you have a chute, deploy it.

Repack your chute, and you will run with the last run group as your run # will be high.

That's how it was, not sure if it applies today.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:30:06 PM by JustaRacer »
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Offline metermatch

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2012, 02:48:21 PM »
It is my understanding that the rules state that a rookie is a rookie for the duration of the entire meet, whether it is one day or two.  So I don't think that will work, if I understand it correctly.

I am only suggesting that a possible rule change could be that a rookie is a rookie for only one day, assuming the rookie makes one or more safe passes on the first day, and goes through the orientation.


Jeff

Offline JustaRacer

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2012, 02:53:19 PM »
It is my understanding that the rules state that a rookie is a rookie for the duration of the entire meet, whether it is one day or two.  So I don't think that will work, if I understand it correctly.

I am only suggesting that a possible rule change could be that a rookie is a rookie for only one day, assuming the rookie makes one or more safe passes on the first day, and goes through the orientation.


Jeff

Hmmm...  Not that I remember.  I think I made 3 passes my first event and set a record.  I could be wrong of course.
My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline Hellcat Customs

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Re: Re: Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 03:16:12 PM »
Why change a rookie system that isn't broke. It's worked for years and every record should be earned as it is now.

That nice...

This was our first year out this year...So we had the ugly rookie sticker on our bike. I ran a open record class and my rookie run didn't qualify us for setting a record under 150 even in a class that was open... So we made our rookie run, then a qualifier that was soft. On our return run I blew intake seals and coasted through the 3 to set our record...So if the rookie pass had counted then it's possible the next run might have been better, would used less fuel, and might have not run as slow as we wouldn't have had to try to be conservative to make as many passes...

I'm big into following tradition of those before me. I also accept positive changes and safety updates with open arms... recently there are change people have asked for that would be an improvement to existing standards like helmet certs that were shot down...and other changes that have been made that don't appear to make things safer or better all they do is force people to either alter their vehicles or equipment but there is no reason to do so because no indecents were used as examples for the change to improve safety...

Like I said, I'm new to this sport but not new to motorsports. Some of these alterations and updates seem to have other motivations behind them rather than improving safety or attendance.

An I out of line with this?

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 03:55:07 PM »
It is my understanding that the rules state that a rookie is a rookie for the duration of the entire meet, whether it is one day or two. 

Read the procedures: They (rookies) will run from the Rookie line for the duration of the meet. Any exceptions will be at the discretion of the Race Director, Rookie Director and/or the appropriate Tech Chair or Chief Inspector and will be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Drivers/riders that have shown exemplary driving/riding ability and done everything else correctly have been graduated out of rookie status early to compete out of the regular lines.  As it says in the procedure, it's on a case-by-case basis.  Setting records will always come second to proper driver/rider conduct and on the train of thought....

A couple years ago it was decided to make the no records on rookie run rule the same for both El Mirage and Bonneville although it was never officially put into the rule book.  For whatever reason this was changed and now you can officially qualify for a record on your rookie run (which I personally don't really agree with but whatever) at Bonneville. 
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline Hellcat Customs

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Re: Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 11:32:14 PM »
I'm with you... I have a "rookie" who will be running another one of our bikes next year. That being said I don't want her to qualify until after she proves to officials shes able to handle the bike fair and square just like I had to and just like the others before me.... a rookie pass for a licence shouldn't have the pressure of a qualifier on it. I think it could lead to some mishaps if someone who is new goes full tilt on their first pass....

Along with possible dangers there is tradition and while we may have qualified on our first rookie pass we respected the tradition without question and got back in line.

In the interest of tradition, rules or not I will make my new rider forfeit her qualifier on her licence pass in 2013 and make two more runs (qualifier and back up) because it's something she has to earn the way the greats before us earned it.

Offline firemanjim

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2012, 01:21:06 AM »
Not really a big worry as a rookie will still have to make licensing runs and if the record is that slow---first license is 125---then why not allow the qualifier?
Bonneville 2001,2002,2003,2004,and NO stinking 2005,DLRA 2006, next?
Well,sure can't complain about 2008--6 records over 200 and 5 hats from Bonneville,Bubs, and El Mirage for the team!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2012, 06:30:53 AM »
At El M  I  was told when I first ran there that I could continue to run in the ROOKIE Lane to lisc up as necessary.  When I wanted to to TRY to set a record;  I  then HAD to move the normal race meet lines,  if the car had then been over 2 I would be entitled to run out of the 2 line if I so chose. It was still considered my "rookie meet"--but I could set a record if possible.  I have help worked the "check in table" at El M for a meet for the last several years and I have seen several minor tweaks but this I think is still mostly how its done..
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Offline Hellcat Customs

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Re: Re: Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2012, 09:57:09 AM »
Not really a big worry as a rookie will still have to make licensing runs and if the record is that slow---first license is 125---then why not allow the qualifier?

That's what my question was... I was told it was a tradition thing so I accepted it and said cool. It puts a lil extra wear and tear on things yer first year but it does show you where you are at. When I inquired about why it was like it was I was told it was safety and tradition and accepted it... So if that was the reason why change it? Really doesn't matter in the long run I guess...but why alter something that was "tradition" and not alter helmet standards.

I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around why some things change for no reason and why other positive changes are pushed off and looked at as unimportant.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2012, 10:13:48 AM »
Politics and points.... that's what rules the rules at EM and it all bleeds over to the salt

Every rule change made that is not safety related it designed to give someone an advantage or someone a disadvantage.

JMO...I think rookie runs should be just that... if your junk won't run the extra 2 miles at Bonneville you need to reconsider your program.
Stainless
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Offline Hellcat Customs

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Re: Re: Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 11:58:18 AM »
Politics and points.... that's what rules the rules at EM and it all bleeds over to the salt

Every rule change made that is not safety related it designed to give someone an advantage or someone a disadvantage.

JMO...I think rookie runs should be just that... if your junk won't run the extra 2 miles at Bonneville you need to reconsider your program.
I'm in agreement with you. We made 9 runs and we didn't complain about the licence pass prior to being allowed to shoot for records. We typically don't buck the system we play with in it so no one can complain about what we do... the political side of things kinda takes the magic and traditional/historical importance out of the events and clubs though. If I was a club member I would be outraged by anyone altering or trying to alter rules for any reason other than to improve safety or the events. Changing a rule to benefit someone or to internalize a record should outrage anyone participating. It dumps on the traditions and historical significance of the club and events and makes the whole mess a political game rather than the great ideas and nature the great drivers/riders/teams before all of us stood for. When Ab set records he invited others with open arms to shoot for them, he didn't set a record and then alter the rules so no one could touch what he did...

Just my personal thoughts... but I got involved because Bonneville has historical significance and traditions I wanted to be part of. The racers and teams act as families and in today's world it seems to be important for us as Americans to have some sort of tradition upheld...something others travel the world to be part of because it's important. Proposing a change to lock a record down or make it easier for a few to somehow be important is an insult to the vets and the past is all I'm saying...

Offline JustaRacer

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2012, 01:59:50 PM »
El Mirage is a club based event and people show up for decades, even when a record is not realistic.

To keep the legacy cars running, the points system permits them to compete and acquire points, to make it fun for them.

So there are two things going:  El Mirage Records, and the Elmo points competition.

Without the points competition, there might not be enough entries to even hold an Elmo event.

But, it causes conflicts between the two. 

There was an entry that was very sweet, and well engineered, but had to run against a 130mph minimum.  For his engine type, that was a stretch in a full sized truck.  He could get close, but couldn't hit the number.  Then some animal with a late model engine pushed the record so high as to be out of range for them.  I think he should have gotten a record at 125(?).  He wasn't in the points chase.  AFAIK, they retired SCTA operations when the late model entry ran the record up.

In a dream world, there would "records" that were under the Elmo Minimum, but not eligible for points until they pass the minimum.

It's hard to tell if the minimums scare new racers away.  But if they do, something should be adjusted.  If they don't have any effect, then by all means, leave it alone.

My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2012, 04:19:07 PM »
"Then some animal with a late model engine pushed the record so high as to be out of range for them."

You well know that there are classes for Vintage engines.  The others classes are divided by cubic inches.  Would you have them figure a manufacturing date into the formula?  For the block?  Heads?   Intake?
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Record qualifying on rookie run
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2012, 04:22:18 PM »
"It's hard to tell if the minimums scare new racers away.  But if they do, something should be adjusted.  If they don't have any effect, then by all means, leave it alone."

It's hard to tell if the records scare new racers away, too.  A lot of the current records have been set over minimums -- and could be a lot scarier.  This association doesn't give records for showing up.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records