Another One...........

[Howard]

We used Tsubaki O ringed chain on our first liner and had great luck with it. Our top speed one way was 261.xxx and as a test, we made ten passes on one chain. I did not show significant wear. Don't know what the power was but good enough to go over 260. The chain was lubed with Super Lube after each pass. It was 530 chain. I made the engine adjustable fore and aft to eliminate the need for an idler. Just something else to fail in my opinion.
Howard

[ack]

If you use O ring chain you won't wash the lube out if you cool it with water.  We used it on very short chains that were running at surface speeds about 4 times the maximum recommended speed under very high power.  They absolutely would not work with out water.  The whole object is to keep the chain temp below 325 degrees F above which the lubricant begins to break down cooler is better.  The O rings also do not do well at high temps.

  For a rear chain of reasonable length you won't need cooling.  Putting lube on an O ring chain really does little good except to keep it from rusting.  The outer rollers do not turn when the chain engages and disengages the sprocket.  Only the inner pin and bushing is subjected to rotation and friction.  The lube that is vacuum injected when it is made is all you have to keep the pins and bushings lubricated.

[Sumner]

Thanks again guys, I've learned a lot more about chain types and adjuster ideas than I knew a couple days ago and you guys have probably saved me a trip to the salt that might have been wasted with improper prep.

Kent your lube arrangement is pretty ingenious and thanks for sharing the width of the roller.  I'm thinking about a 3 inch OD on the roller if I go that way.  Any thoughts?  My chain is 44 links.  I found the chain you are using and will look at that along with the chains Mike and Howard are/have used.  Looks like it might be a chevy vs. ford deal . I plan on guides on the top run.  If anyone else is exploring this I found out that Delrin is the trademarked name for ACETAL.  I found a supplier in San Diego, San Diego Plastic, is that who you used?

Dean thanks for explaining what you were referring to with the "wrap" and thanks for taking the time to include the excellent illustrations.  They made it real easy to understand what was happening.  I can't tension my chain on the top of the bottom run as it takes the chain into the area of the shifter shaft and there are a couple other problems associated with that method also in my case.

Howard thanks for the recommendation on the chain.  I found Tsubaki chain last night, but it looks as if they have a number of o-ring chains to choose from.  I looked before at moving the pillow blocks that hold the rear to take the slack out of the chain and I'm going to re-visit that again today.  If I can make that work I'll also have to be able to move the brake caliper.  This would make the idler roller/sprocket problem go away.  I'm just a couple hours away from finishing the sprocket adjuster and I'm happy with my machine work .  Oh well I guess I can hang it on the wall and look at it .  I really can't see moving the motor in my situation as it will end up with a turbo and inter-cooler that would also all have to move with it and I want to make sure the motor and rear-end are really solid and can't move around under load.

Mike thanks for explaining how an O-ring chain operates.  They didn't have these in my bike days and I just thought it was some new way to make money off of you .  

If anyone else has something to add I'm all ears.  I'm surprised that none of the bike guys have anything to say and they all run chains, well almost all bikes do.

c ya, Sum

[bak189]

I am a "bike guy" or a sidecar guy
Best of luck

[1212FBGS]

sum
3" on the roller sounds good. I get my materials from McMaster carr. Sure wish they would sponsor me. I built many of vehicles from their shelves.
kr

[Sumner]

I am a "bike guy" or a sidecar guy
Best of luck

Sorry I forgot how many wheels you had .

Thanks Kent for the feedback on the roller size, but I might have things fixed with no adjuster.  

A while back I considered adjusting the chain by moving the rear pillow blocks back and forth, but then for whatever reason gave up on that line of though without ever trying it.  I thought I was going to have to move them quite a bit if I remember right.

Well then Howard posted about moving the motor and about the same time I got an e-mail from Tom suggesting moving the pillow blocks.  He figured I would only have to move them about  0.145 if I use a half-link in the chain.  I never had much luck with them when I use to ride bikes, but thought I'll see how much I need to move them to take the slack out of basically the difference in one link in the chain length.  Sorry Tom, but I doubted the .145 measurement.  So today I removed the bolts from the  pillow blocks and moved them back.  To my surprise I only had to put in a .225 shim to take the slack out of the chain.  Ok Tom, so you were right as usual, thanks to you and Howard for getting me to check this out.

     

I had a problem in that I needed to slot the side pieces that hold the pillow blocks from the side.  If I slotted them the slots would go outside of the existing side plates or close to their backs.  I took some 3/16 X 3/4 inch strap and extended them towards the rear of the car (see picture above).

 

Then I filled in the triangular space with another piece and made slots that were 1/2 inch longer than the original holes (I thought even though I only needed about 1/4 inch I better play it safe).  You can see the .225 wood shim in the picture at the back of the pillow block.  Also I'll later add a horizontal piece that will go in between the vertical frame rail and the back side of the pillow block brace between the two bolts there to further support the back side of the pillow block support against the pulling force of the chain.

 

As you can see that .225 spacer took all the slack out of the chain and if the chain was just a touch longer I could remove it altogether.  I'll make up some different thickness shims to go where the piece of wood is and I think I'll be good to go.

The side holes don't hold the pillow block from being pulled towards the motor the back piece does that and the shims will provide a positive stop.  Also since I'm using an IRS rear with half-shafts the slight movement backwards and forward won't hurt with the U-joints taking care of that.

Like I've said before you guys and the internet is great.

c ya, Sum

[1212FBGS]

adjusting the rear wheel or axle is the easiest. but not the best for vehicle track. we decided to fix the axles and have the chassis computer aligned at the local car alignment shop and slide the twin  motor package forward and aft to adjust the drive chain. we wanted the car to go straight and stay straight at all cost and the chain tention was secondary. we didnt want to adjust the chain and then spend the next hour dickin round with the axle to get it 2 track straight. looks like your pretty deep into your design. after you align the chassis I would sugest you set a punch mark or a reference point so you can acurately measure your side to side axle adjustments with a caliper so you can get that axle straight. dont wory, your design has been done in the past and it will work good it will just take some fiddlin with. ya gonna get it done for a shake down this speed week? remember speedweek pre entry needs to be postmarked by monday the 15th. so get off the puter and get back in the shop and get some work done..
love ya
kent

[Sumner]

adjusting the rear wheel or axle is the easiest. but not the best for vehicle track. we decided to fix the axles and have the chassis computer aligned at the local car alignment shop and slide the twin  motor package forward and aft to adjust the drive chain. we wanted the car to go straight and stay straight at all cost and the chain tention was secondary. we didnt want to adjust the chain and then spend the next hour dickin round with the axle to get it 2 track straight. looks like your pretty deep into your design. after you align the chassis I would sugest you set a punch mark or a reference point so you can acurately measure your side to side axle adjustments with a caliper so you can get that axle straight. dont wory, your design has been done in the past and it will work good it will just take some fiddlin with. ya gonna get it done for a shake down this speed week? remember speedweek pre entry needs to be postmarked by monday the 15th. so get off the puter and get back in the shop and get some work done..
love ya
kent

Yeah you are right I need to spend more time in the shop and less on this computer .

With the IRS I'm using I can slide the center section back and forth and not effect the wheel alignment.  I think you make a good point about trying to get the alignment right on if I can.

No speed week for the car (I'll be there with Hooley) this year.  Still have to build the front-end, no wiring or plumbing and they there is that small problem of no body not to mention the available money situation right now.  Slim possibility of the Oct. meet, but I think I'll just have to plan for a year from now.  The important thing is I'm having fun and really enjoy the building stage>

Thanks for the help,

Sum

[Howard]

Sumner,

I was out in the shop today and checked an old box of chain. We used
Tsubaki Sigma chain on our liner. Maybe that will help if you decide to try it. We used the lube on the chain because the rep. from Tsubaki told us we should. Probably did not stay on long at the chain speeds.
Howard

[Sumner]

 

I finished the idler sprocket that I probably won't use.  I hated to leave it 3/4's done so I spent another couple hours on it and finished it, except for making a shaft and side spacers for it.  It will probably just hang on the wall or something.  You can go ( HERE  ) to see how I made the parts.  Pretty boring stuff.



On (  THIS PAGE ) I showed how I'm moving the rear-end to avoid the idler sprocket.

I also have included comments from "this thread" on landracing.com as I thought they were really good and could be helpful to someone building a chain driven car or bike streamliner.  Jon gave his approval on using these quotes, but if any of you don't want them included in the info on my site please let me know and I'll remove your comments.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to more knowledge on my part and hopefully others.  Also if anyone has anything else to still contribute I hope they do.

c ya, Sum