Author Topic: Pistin Pin Oilers  (Read 12066 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Pistin Pin Oilers
« on: November 16, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »
I want to add piston pin oilers to the FlatCad.

What nozzles are you guys using, and where did you get them from?

Any pics would be appreciated too!

Thank you in advance!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 03:15:22 PM »
There's a very crafty builder in Arizona who shared this tip with me -

Wire welder tips. 

A variety of sizes available.

If I ever convert over to a dry sump, that's what I'll use.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 07:07:42 PM »
Thanks Chris, I'll keep that in mind. I'll have to try and play with some, to see if I can get a good spray pattern out of them.

We're a little short on time, as usual, so I thought I'd try and see what everyone was using, so that I can get to the dyno and wind tunnel.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline JustaRacer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 258
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 07:20:49 PM »
There is an OEM part number for Duramax Diesel engines that's curved to clear a fully counterweighted crank.  However, it's metric thread.

You should have a check valve to avoid low oil pressure at idle.
My doctor told me to go out and kill people.
Well, sort of.  He told me to reduce the stress in my life.

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 07:45:06 PM »
This is how Rick Byrnes did oilers in the late '80s (and I suspect that it was developed by Roush for their Trans-Am turbo fours):

Edit: link to fullsize: http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Bonneville%20Merkur/Oilers.jpg (400 pixels height max allowable by the site would be not useable for this pic).

Don't know if it would work for you and would require a modicum of geometry.  :mrgreen:

Mike

Source: Super Ford magazine, August 1992, page 27
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline Buickguy3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 09:13:12 PM »
  Buddy,
  Call Frank and I'll bet he can give you some tips. We did ours in the shop with a bunch of brass fittings and 1/8 copper tube. Been workng for 3 years.
  Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
                   [America]

Offline SPARKY

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6908
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 12:10:12 AM »
how do the main journals compare to a bbc?
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 01:21:49 AM »
how do the main journals compare to a bbc?

About 40% fewer of them.   :|

I'm thinking Mike and Rick's idea is fine for a 5 main 4 cylinder, but I'd be cautious about plumbing sprinklers off of the mains when you're feeding 8 rod bearings through 3 mains.  I'd think you'd almost need a separate pump, or at least a regulated circuit where you could maintain flow to the crank with no possibility of starving the reciprocating assembly.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline saltracer1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 07:26:10 AM »
Is this the same principle as a stock flathead Ford rod? Phil

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5503
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 01:41:37 PM »
The pin to piston fit can be tight sometimes.  This means the pin does not float like it should in the piston and all movement is between the pin and the small end bearing.  The picture shows lapping with toothpaste to get rid of a high spot that is making the pin fit overly tight.  Now the pin will float and there will be less pin movement in the small end bushing.

The piston has a hole in it under the rings at the knife tip.  The oil rings scrub down the oil on the cylinder walls during the down stroke.  This pumps some oil into the hole and a passage carries it to the pin boss.

The rod shown catches oil flying about in the engine and directs it to the hole where it goes into the small end bushing.

My preference is to have dissimilar metals at the small end such as the steel pin in a non ferrous rod bushing.  This is a personal thing.  A lot of people do not do it.  Also, paying attention to the bushing - pin clearance is critical.  Careful parts selection and assembly can go a long way to prevent pin problems   

Offline Tman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3672
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 02:06:57 PM »
Toms Strawberry................mmmmmmmmmm, my 5 year old uses that, I steal some about once a week since it tastes so good!

Buddy, I did a quick search last night but could not find it but there is a good thread on here somewhere that goes into oilers in depth.

Offline SPARKY

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6908
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 05:34:19 PM »
Aim to get as much of the piston crown coverage as possible may vary from  the top of stroke and and bottom on others--it should move across the crown as it goes up and down.  This should maximize the amount of heat pulled out of the crown.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline SteveM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1483
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 07:52:54 PM »
For what it's worth, there are some VW liquid-cooled engines that use piston oilers.  I beleive the ABA series 2.0 liter engines, and the 1.6 Turbo Diesels use squirters.  They have built-in check valves as well.   The ABA squirters only require one hole to be drilled into an oil galley - the diesel pieces need 2 holes.  I have no idea whether it would be possible to retrofit these into a Cad flat engine.


Steve.
1/2 of the Rampage Brothers

Offline SPARKY

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6908
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2012, 12:03:40 AM »
if the the objective is to oil the piston pins--

EDM  rifle drilling the rods sends oil from the rod journal up the con. rod to the pin bushings.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline 38flattie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
    • http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Re: Pistin Pin Oilers
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 02:26:11 PM »
Thanks everyone!

Lots of good ideas here! The point is twofold- get more oil to the pin, and cool the piston.

I was hoping to adapt a commercial oiler to our engine, but may do as the Salt Cat guys did, and just fab some up.

Chris, I think I can use just the one dry sump, and divert 10% or so of the oil that direction. It wouldn't be hard to preset the valve on the bench. Attached is a pic of the type valve I'll use on the tranny and rear diff, and I think I could use it for this purpose also.

I was hoping someone/s had some part numbers, so that I could order a few different types to play with, and flow test.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c