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Author Topic: Tubing requirement change for 2-wheel streamliners  (Read 38859 times)
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superleggera
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« on: November 13, 2012, 01:48:55 PM »

There is a thread in the "Build Section" here -- http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,11024.405.html (let's leave that as a build thread!)

but it should be here under SCTA rules and for broader discussion. 

[Apparently] This went to vote and apparently got passed at SCTA meeting 3rd of November 2012:


Current Rule:

Shall completely surround the rider and shall be fitted in the rider’s compartment. Minimum diameter is 1 1⁄4 inches with .090 inch nominal wall thickness, mechanical steel tubing. No galvanized pipe, black water pipe or threaded fittings are permitted. The design of the roll cage shall incorporate the following features as a minimum: Two (2) roll bars, (one forward and one after the riders head), which shall be tied together and capped with a steel plate .090 inches thick. The cap shall cover the upper 140 deg of the riders head. The roll bar shall be braced with a tube of the same dimensions on each side. Rider’s head movement shall be limited to no more than 2 inches to each side, top or rear with the riders head in the normal position. Roll cage padding meeting SFI specifications 45.1 for round tube roll cage padding and SFI specification 45.3 for flat cage padding is required in the vicinity of the rider’s

Issue:

Motorcycle streamliner and motorcycle side car streamliner roll cage tubing size requirements

Rulebook Section: 7.H.4 Rulebook Page No: 123


Desired Outcome:

To bring motorcycle streamliner and side car streamliner tubing and cage requirements in line with the car tubing requirements

Reason for Chg:

The current tubing sizes on some streamliners and side car streamliners (Speed X weight X Mass) is inadequate.

Side Effects:

None, (Will not affect any streamliner or side car streamliner that is currently running in the SCTA or BNI).

Desired Rulebook Wording:

Shall completely surround the rider and shall be fitted in the riders compartment. Minimum diameter is 1-1/4 in. with .090 in. nominal wall thickness, mechanical steel tubing in a vehicle with speeds under 175 mph. In vehicles with speeds over 175 mph minimum requirements for the roll cage structure and the roll cage structure braces are 1-5/8 in O.D. round steel tubing with a minimum .120 in. nominal wall thickness or E4130 chromoly tubing with a minimum .095 in. nominal wall thickness, securely mounted, gusseted and braced within 5 in. of the top of the roll cage structure. ALL ROLL CAGE STRUCTURES SHALL BE DESIGNED TO PROTECT THE DRIVER FROM ANY ANGLE, INCLUDING THE BOTTOM AND REAR. The front hoop of the roll cage shall be at least 3 in. in front of the drivers helmet while the driver is in his normal driving position.
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• me: Mark • home: Dry Heat, AZ USA • build underway: J-BFS Streamliner
JustaRacer
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 04:00:39 PM »

Side Effects:

  • Cross-sectional area could increase.
  • Weight of safety cage will roughly double, probably raising the CG, and increasing the tire/susp loading.
  • Cost of construction increases.

Are there others?  I don't know, but those 3 are obvious to a layman.

If weight, drag, CG, and tires aren't a problem, then the side effects are less, but still exist.

There is no free lunch.  Everything has a downside.  Folk get suspicious when they hear otherwise.  Human nature.





« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 04:08:11 PM by JustaRacer » Logged

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Jon
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 05:04:26 PM »

Side Effects:

  • Cross-sectional area could increase.
  • Weight of safety cage will roughly double, probably raising the CG, and increasing the tire/susp loading.
  • Cost of construction increases.

Are there others?  I don't know, but those 3 are obvious to a layman.

If weight, drag, CG, and tires aren't a problem, then the side effects are less, but still exist.

There is no free lunch.  Everything has a downside.  Folk get suspicious when they hear otherwise.  Human nature.








All are very valid points if you do not already own or are currently constructing a motorcycle streamliner.

The impact is a little more if you currently own or are currently building, which is 100% of the people really effected  by this rule change.

Regards
jon
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 05:21:56 PM by Jon » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 05:22:41 PM »

Hey Guys
well i stirred up quite a bee's nest here..... My fricken phone and email has been blowing up today.... Im gonna wait till tonight to see what todays outcome has been in this regard before i continue to throw people under the bus but i need your help...This Rule was submitted by Van Butler (proposed by someone else, not his original idea)... Van has lied to the board and all the clubs that this rule does not effect anyone..... I have compiled a small list of bike liners that this rule could effect..... can you review this list and add anybody i left out? If you are on this list or this rule effects you or someone you know please PM me for all the board members email address so you can send them a letter....
thanks
Kent

Bob Williams.......... arrow liner
Sam Wheeler.......... ez hook
Max Lambke.......... Vincent
Bill Dube............... Killajoule
Mike Akatiff........... ackattack
Craig Anderson...... Flying Kiwi
Leo Hess................Hess Liner
John Parham......... JP Liner
Kent Riches........... Breese liner
Kent Riches....... ....Braverman liner
Kent Riches........... Harley Liner
Kent Riches........... Lightning bolt
Jack Costella......... 5050 liner
Jack Costella......... 8080 liner
California fritz........ harley liner
Kenny Lions.......... Honda liner
 
 
New Builds
Gaberial Utley........ Angelic bulldog
Alex McFazden.......Turbine liner (Vesco North rebuild)
Jon Bennett.......... Ausi Suzuki
Larry Pater............ Pater liner
Kent Riches........... Little liner

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1212FBGS
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 05:36:30 PM »

Can anybody on this forum do a CAD drawing of a frame and failure analysts comparison on the 2 tubing sized before Friday?
kr
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 06:05:54 PM »

What about the Budfab liner?
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 06:23:07 PM »

Check your PMs Kent
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1212FBGS
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 07:15:04 PM »

bubfab under 175mph.... thanks tman for the pm... i need to get the names of these liners owners... 3 apparently in Australia, 1 in Switzerland, i jet powered?liner,  that Rocky guy with the old indian liner in the mid west.....  I looked some guys liner build pix at the world finals he is building a Suzuki liner any body know his name? Come on guys i need more ammunition..... also need some CAD help ! ! !
kent
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Gman
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 07:46:17 PM »

Side Effects:
  None, (Will not affect any streamliner or side car streamliner that is currently running in the SCTA or BNI).


Does this mean that any currently running are grandfathered in?
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 08:12:27 PM »

Apparently there is no grandfathering.

As far as CFD if Woody can do mine before then and the price is reachable I'll get the measurements and pictures to him as soon as I get home, on the way back from looking at the eclipse.

Problem is there are as many cage designs as there are Streamliner Bikes.

Regards
jon
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 08:46:05 PM by Jon » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 08:34:21 PM »

bubfab under 175mph.... thanks tman for the pm... i need to get the names of these liners owners... 3 apparently in Australia, 1 in Switzerland, i jet powered?liner,  that Rocky guy with the old indian liner in the mid west.....  I looked some guys liner build pix at the world finals he is building a Suzuki liner any body know his name? Come on guys i need more ammunition..... also need some CAD help ! ! !
kent

Kent, these are the bike 'liner owner / builders in Oz at the moment I know of.
Lucky Keizer  DLRA #105
Greg Watters  DLRA # 378
Ken Robinson  DLRA # 783
Jon Baxendell DLRA #877
Ross Brown    DLRA #925
Tiny
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2012, 08:51:03 PM »

God Lord, 21 liners!?!?  26 counting OZ?

I'm not into bikes, but that's got to be more bikes than Studebakers that run SCTA-BNI!

How could anybody claim lack of knowledge to what would be the numerical equivelent of 4% of all the vehicles that ran at Speedweek last year?



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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2012, 08:59:14 PM »

Adding to the list:

John Renwick (Vincent-powered sidecar streamliner, dark green, UK) typically does not run at SCTA, only at BUB, but he is in the affected group if he wished to run.
His liner lives in New Jersey these days, so he should be added to the US list.

// Eva 
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2012, 09:17:56 PM »

Kent i left a message with a guy doing a build in Stockton CA, he is well into it  , could be the guy you talked to at WF
NA busa motor
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2012, 09:39:29 PM »

Van Butler is the motorcycle committee chair and the one who submitted this rule change... he is either very forgetful and even forgot about the French 'liner that showed up 3 1/2 months ago or he purposely omitted them to mislead the board and all of the club members that had a vote.... when the board see that no one will be effected and all of the club members see that no one will be effected by the change, then it should be a slam dunk approval.... This alone should be reason to toss it to submit next year

Thanks for the names shovel and eva... Maj keep on the name thing for me please.... anybody come up with the Indian guys name yet?.... Its Maroon with a big indian head on the side and he drives a converted bus, the 'liner use to run SCTA with a Suzuki motor in it

Eva, its cool that John runs with Bub... If the SCTA weren't so narrow minded we could probably get him to run with us as well as some other liners out there.. but the mindset behind the SCTA is not attractive to bring in new competitors... the ones on the fence fall to the best environment and usually not the SCTA... Keep in mind this rule change effects SCTA, USFRA, and DRLA racers... lucky we still have Bub and Cook...

kent
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