2 stroke Auto Lube

[SaltPeter]

Hey Makr

You get a better seal on the rings so you optimise the compression, also gives a bigger jetting margin to reduce the chance of lean out/seizure.

Less oil leaves a very narrow window between rich and seizure.

With more oil you get a greater lube and cooling effect and reduces expansion the piston, we're talking thousands here.

This really applies to Racing 2 strokes and is even more important when running a long time at WOT like we do.

Pete
DLRA#866

Might be a good Tech Discussion Topic

[Chris V]

Your oil theory kinda makes sence saltpeter thanks. Makr, yes see what you can find in R5 piston port stock bore cylinders.Looking though various websites it looks like reproduction pistons are available.  Chris

[Dean Los Angeles]

also more oil produces more power and is safer when re-jetting than running less oil

gives a bigger jetting margin to reduce the chance of lean out/seizure

I'm going to disagree here. Oil provides lubrication. It has no effect on cooling.
Cooling is a function of the correct A/F ratio, the EGT gauge, and the correct water or air cooling. As far as safer, you have to have confidence in your tuning.
Seizure happens when the piston makes contact with the barrel and is a function of heat. No amount of oil will prevent that.

I have run enduro karts for an hour at 100:1 with Klotz oil. Extensive testing showed more wear from the lower lubrication, but within the rebuild time I would use anyway. Race engines have short lives.

Oil displaces air and fuel and reduces power.

[makr]

Chris, I looked through my collection. The only R5 stock bore cylinders I have, are massively scored. Sorry.


Why not just run the 500 class? It is actually slower than the 350 class. Then you don't have to worry about size. I am assuming you are going to run p-p. If not, disregard all that.

[Chris V]

Thanks makr hadn't thought that so I see the 500cc class was about one hundreth MPH slower than 350cc. still time to figure this out, if we do well in "CG"with the other 500's that might be there would consider"PP" if bike held together after one run :cry:being this will be 1st time running. Chris

[makr]

I had no idea there was a "CG" class.

Not sure of your background, but whatever other motorsports you have been involved in the past will give you no indication of the how it is on the salt. It is so different than road racing where you have seventeen competitors that are close to your lap times. You really don't have to worry about anyone else. The salt is WAY more difficult than people think. You will have your own problems and if anyone shows up to run the same record as you, they will have their problems. You may get lucky, but usually it doesn't work that way.

Your main obstacle with the the R5 is going to be heat. Keep in mind you have to be at WOT for more than a mile.

I am not saying that to discourage you. I love two strokes and am happy you will be out there. There are still a few of us nuts left. Some Kawasakis, and at least four RDs last year. Everyone in different classes. Plus if you figure out how to beat the heat in an aircooled two stroke, I am going to bug the shit out of to tell me how you did it. haha


Looks like you do get .05 inch overbore in that class.

[Chris V]

No speed trials or 2 stroke or any racing for that matter,over 50 years ridding dirt and street doing most all routine maintinance I,m searching out now for expert help in 2 stroke engine tuning in northern california. My wife Sandy will be the rider her 1st bike was a R5 350 back in the 70's so that's what she wanted to ride after getting enthused being there the last 4 years helping team tracy.After this post I',ll start a new thread,. were not relating to autolube anymore. Buy the way sandy will be 75 years young next year

[Dean Los Angeles]

I,m searching out now for expert help in 2 stroke engine tuning in northern california.

Hey! You watch your language! That's CENTRAL California.

[Chris V]

Dean, I didn't think anyone knew were Crows Landing is!

[rgn]

Hi Chris, Glad to hear you are going to race an R5.  A thought regarding sleeves, LA sleeve company make sleeves for the banshee (same bore and stroke+same family of engine)  They have and can be ported quite creatively prior to fitment.  You should be able to get very good power out of an old piston port R5.

Regarding seals, for the cost (cheap and readily available)you really would be better off pulling the engine apart, and replacing them.  At the same time you can match port the crankcase to the transfers, check or rebuild the crank etc.  If you calculate the costs of getting to and entering a race meet, you will see that getting there with a fresh 'known' engine is a good investment.  60 rwhp is easily achievable.  Good luck!

[SaltPeter]

Dean I thought less oil is better until I started Land Speed stuff. But have found out that all is not so straight forward.

I was not expressing a theory about more Power it was based on actual comparative testing. There has been back to back Dyno testing done with different Oil Mixtures and richer Oil mixture made more Power in the tests. It's one of those counter intuitive things but the explanation is again simple Physics.

I am happy to continue with extra Oil in my RGV/Aprilia250. I still run the Suzuki PEI Pump and adjust the settings to put more oil into the system.
Had many runs at Speedweek down here in 2010 in M/G 250 and the engine worked great and I was pinned at 12000 very smoky RPMs for over a mile on several Runs around 119mph (they do about 123-125mph with a fairing) and I had no Plug Fouling. Piston/Cylinders were perfect after the Event and they had 3000 kms on them before Speedweek.

Just got the new setup (still use stock Radiator) Dynoed and it made 78RWHP (stock 64hp on same Dyno) despite being deliberately Jetted Rich. Engine Temps stayed consistent, EGTs were consistent with a Rich setup.

Land Speed Stuff is different and Power is no good without durability and it's a real challenge for all of us, especially with a 2 Stroke.

Like I said a good topic for Tech Discussion.




Pete
#866

[Nortonist 592]

Back in the 70s when Suzuki was building the RG500 racer Suzuki published a paper on two stroke oiling.  One thing of note was that the amount of oil had little bearing on the power output.  Suzuki had the oil/gas ratio down to 12 to 1 without loss of power.  Oily two strokes don't seize.