Comp Coupe or Modified Sports?

[Avanti Kid]

This is a mess!! its really hard to nail down what cars belong in GT/Modified Sports or in Coupe/Sedan classes.  I'm on the Coupe/Sedan committee and founder of the "Classic racing class" my suggestion is for the two committees to get together and list ever car that belongs in the GT/Modified Sports on one data base, then also list all the cars on the Coupe/Sedan classes data base, then add new cars as they appear by the two committees voting on where they belong. Yes, it will be a big list but the out come of this process would make it very clear what catagory each car belongs. Thanks for your time, Dave

[dw230]

Dave,

You can get started on that as soon as you wish.

Thanks for YOUR time,

DW

PS - Be careful what you want done. I did that and ended up with the Impound.

DW

[Avanti Kid]

Dan, I would be glad to work on that but I'm only one guys out of 15 or more that are on the two committees, so it would take all of them to want to take on this task also, so its only an idea now that may not go anywhere! Its so hard to explain in words what class these cars belong in! Thats why I think a data base chart with cars defined would work best, oh well more to come later,  Dave

[racekid]

wasn't it better when competition coupe had to have backseats for two average sized adults 

[LittleLiner]

I have been following the discussion on Coupe/Sedan or Modified Sports . . .  Talk about a can of worms!
I have some ideas that might make the issue manageable or at least less complex.
You need to start with a set of general criteria that can be referenced when determining if a car is or is not a GT/Modified Sports.   Here is a suggested starting point.
The following are considered acceptable for GT and Modified Sports if originally produced as one of the following
•   Two passenger roadster with or without additional jump seats   
•   Two passenger coupe  with or without additional jump seats
•   2+2 version of any  two passenger roadster or two passenger coupe
•   Kit cars and/or Replicas with pre-approval of the SCTA Sports/GT Committee
•   Sports racing cars such as those common in SCCA road racing will be classed in Modified Sports classes

The following are considered as acceptable Coupes or Sedans (for Production, Gas Coupe, Altered, and Competition Coupe) in Production, Modified, Classic and Vintage Categories
•   Four (or more) passenger  (convertible, coupe, sedan, wagon, hatchback, van, suv, and crossover)
•   Two (or three) passenger ‘ El Camino style trucks’
•   Two passenger special models otherwise offered as base vehicles usually produced for 4 or more passengers (i.e. Mustang GT- 350, Mustang Boss Laguna Seca, etc.)
•   Note: See exceptions for pre 1949 vehicles under separate Category rules

If rules like this were adopted the result might find a few current competitors including a few record holders with cars that no longer fit into their current category. 
There is still a group of ‘grey area’ cars that slip through these rules such as cars offered as four passenger models in some countries but as two passenger models in other markets.  (i.e., Honda CRX) 

[JustaRacer]

Just car trivia, not necessarily on-topic:

The biggest changes in aero didn't come from the number of seats, but instead, the model year.

Roughly about 1982 and the CAFE requirements (fuel economy), and the invention of powerful CAD systems for car bodies, aero drag starts to fall.  Any 2000+ 4-dr car has less drag than a 1968 Corvette.  They were designing for looks in the early days when gas was cheap and tires could not support high speeds.  

Even among the same model car, of the same size, there are radical differences as the years progress.  Top speed of a 360HP Camaro was under 130mph back in the day, the 1998 model with 305HP goes 162mph.  They are the same weight and size.  Quarter mile traps are 100mph vs 107mph.  This is true for most cars.

What the SCTA is doing is perhaps the only way to do this.  List them as they occur.  Submit an entry and get a class.

 

[Stan Back]

Part of the can of worms includes what to do with record-hoders that get de-classified.  And that foreign-made vehicles that most of us have never seen before show up at SpeedWeek from time to time.  The "category czar" would be lucky to have anywhere near 50% of the racers agree with him.

[Gary Perkinson]

Okay, so as the rules stand, can I run my 1987 N/A 300zx 2+2 (3.0) in F/PRO?

[dw230]

What did the committee chairperson listed in your rulebook say?

DW

[Peter Jack]

Gary, are you asking about Bonneville or ECTA? Get a ruling from the applicable body. All you'll get here are opinions and they're worth exactly what you paid for them. 

Pete

[Gary Perkinson]

Gary, are you asking about Bonneville or ECTA? Get a ruling from the applicable body. All you'll get here are opinions and they're worth exactly what you paid for them. 

Pete

Thanks, Pete--both rulebooks are actually in the mail as we speak, but I figured that since the 2+2 Z was one of the oddities mentioned in the current thread, someone might know the class off the top of their head. I'll get back to you guys after the books arrive...

[LittleLiner]

Okay, so as the rules stand, can I run my 1987 N/A 300zx 2+2 (3.0) in F/PRO?

As DW said, check with the appropriate committee chairman.

I hope I did not confuse the issue when I lumped 2+2s in the sports category a few posts up . . that is just a strawman that I pulled out of my a . . .

For what it matters, there is already at least one Z 2+2 running as a coupe/sedan.  Car 220 F GALT Andrew Flagg

http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2012/Nov/Photos/Harnick/Cars_1/0220.JPG

[Speed Limit 1000]

Has that car set a record? Class is inspected in impound. We ran an Abarth OTR but were not given the record.

[Avanti Kid]

Again guys if we had both committees (GT/Sports & Coupe/Sedans) agree to a list of cars for each catogory into a data base, that would establish a baseline, then as new cars plan to race with SCTA, they could submit their car for consideration into which class it would end up in, of course the initial lists would have to ensure that no cars current or past record is taken away from the one holding a record.  This is only an idea that I have and not one from  SCTA or other race officials.  Hey any ideas and comments on this task is appreciated pros & cons, thanks Dave 

[trimmers]

Has that car set a record? Class is inspected in impound. We ran an Abarth OTR but were not given the record.

In what class was the Abarth denied a record?  I/GT perhaps?

The little information I can find on it lists it as a 2-seater, but I believe it was based on the 4-seat F.I.A.T. 850 Coupe. 

What reason was given for denial of the record? 

By the way, it seemed like my ex-wife was always OTR.