Snell vs ECE

[Hellcat Customs]

Is there a way to petition SCTA to look at the data on helmets and allow ECE rated units to be used or accepted in the rule book?

Snell has a great history and I understand the great importance of Snell ratings on my helmets for the street, track, and the salt...

Thing is, ECE rated helmets aren't just safety tested to approve a design, they are batch tested. So since its not just a tested and approved design for the rating but tested through out the production of the helmet line I personally feel a little safer knowing a bean counter didn't alter things a bit to save a lil cash after the helmet design was approved....

Lots of really great helmet makers are also dumping Snell ratings for ECE because they say they produce a safer product that way. Because there are fewer and fewer companies with Snell ratings every year it also makes it tough on the wallet and tough finding a fit you like for budget racers.... With less to choose from every year and the few Snell approved helmets out there compared to ECE its harder and harder to find something you love south of the $600 mark.

If the expensive helmet protected you better or was made with better quality control standards I'd understand and would gladly spend the money for better protection... But I personally like ECE's batch testing idea and like knowing helmets before and after mine made the safety cut rather than getting a recall notice on my expensive helmet....

I just think in the interest of safety and bringing new racers to support SCTA and keep them thriving that the helmet tech has changed over the years and so should the safety rules.... I personally would have chose my ECE helmet over my Snell...the ECE is lighter and fits better, which on a bike at 100+ lighter and fitting better is safer cause your head isn't getting pushed around as much...

How do we try to update these rules to make the sport safe and easier for people in a budget to come play to?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

At SpeedWeek one of the Brits I've got his name, but it's out west with the trailer - I think) donated 8 or 9 ECE-rated helmets to the website.  I intend to take one or two to inspection this year to see the story on ECE vs. Snell 2010.

The helmets are to be sold as a fundraiser for landracing.com.  I hope they're acceptable -- it'd make selling them a whole heck of a lot easier.  Most are basic black, and maybe there's a silver one in there. 
we tried auctioning them on eBay - no response.  So -- it's up to you to buy a helmet and help the website for your bonus benefit.

[Hellcat Customs]

I have a helmet sponsor that I could probably talk into donating some helmets for a few riders if SCTA/USFRA would allow them to run...

My ECE helmet also has air bladders in it so that you can pump it up to squish yer cheeks and make it so tight it can't come off...nice thing is should a crash occur the hospital deflates it and it comes of with a lil less effort...

If SCTA was willing to give it a shot I'm positive I can get my sponsor in board to help



Slim, give me a Web address for your auction and I'll push some folks yer way

[Seldom Seen Slim]

No auctions going on at present, and when we do have them -- they're right here on the Forum and are posted/treated like any other post.  That is, when you click to "View any unread posts" the auction will show up as one such.  Thanks for the offer, though.  If I've misunderstood and you want to send some stuff to us to auction - it's 509 Dukes Road, Skandia Michigan 49885.

Thanks.

[dw230]

Hellcat,

If you look at section 3.A.2, the car section of the rulebook states FIA(ECE) helmet specs. The motorcycle section has yet to be updated to the equivilant spec but is on the horizon.

To petition the rulebook changes the infomation is on page one - you have to read the complete book.

DW

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I'm the guy from England, we all had to buy Snell approved crash helmets to compete at this years Speedweek.
Nearly all of us have Arai crash helmets which are all not only ECE but also ACU gold approved, this is one of if not the highest safety rating for motorcycle competition in the world.
After a few emails to Tech I received an email that said to bring said email & "we would be good to go" we all decided not to bring our helmets but to buy Snell approved when we arrived in the USA, which was just as well as I was in bike tech when a European Arai was

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Yeah, David -- now I remember.  You're the fellow that had his leathers run up the flagpole to flap gaily in the breeze - and dry out.  How could I have forgot that?

Thanks for the helmets.  We'll put them to good use.  Did you ever present them to M/C inspection for their review?  I'm going to do just that next week - and though I should ask what success you had.

Thanks again for the kind donation to landracing.com.

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Opps pressed the wrong key before i finished the post
The European Arai failed tech!!!
Personally I think the SCTA need to amend the Motorcycle helmet rules to allow European ECE ACU gold approved helmets to be used in competition.
It would not take a lot of research to see these standards are the equivelant if not higher than Snell & thus allow them to be approved for SCTA motorcycle competition

[Hellcat Customs]

Hellcat,

If you look at section 3.A.2, the car section of the rulebook states FIA(ECE) helmet specs. The motorcycle section has yet to be updated to the equivilant spec but is on the horizon.

To petition the rulebook changes the infomation is on page one - you have to read the complete book.

DW

Thanks for the info! As I understand it, because I'm not in a SCTA club I don't have much of a voice in the matter at the moment and a club would need to petition for the change... Am I correct in this understanding of the process?

I brought it here to the forum not to shake things up but to hopefully get someone with more pull to get the ECE rule added, and if its good for the cars should be good for everyone since you car guys go much faster than me:)

See I'm a rookie...this was my first year. My interest is to get more people hooked on these events so they don't die out... The only way to preserve this history and the salt is to get more people out there, safely out there... Rookies I know can be a pain to folks who've been the back bone to the sport, but rookies become vets and vets keep the sport going... If the ECE change is made I can bring at least 4 more riders out next year. Some for the 130 class, some for comp class and it will keep spreading and growing from there...

Just wanna see it more affordable, less trouble, and just as safe so one day my kid can feel what I felt out there...

[Bob Drury]

  My only question would be why Arai (being a major player in helmet's) has not aproached Snell for approval of their products as it could vastly improve their World wide sales.  The cost would be no more than any American manufacturer had to and continues to pay Snell.
  Just my opinion, as a Biased (although Liberal) citizen of the United States.
  I do not, however, mind if a few of you "sneaky" Brit's) steal a few of our records (as long as its not in MY CLASS).
                                                                    Bob

[dw230]

Hellcat,

My apology, I forgot that tiny bit about being a member to propose a rule change.

If Jon will link up with me next week we can approach the m/c tech about the helmet ratings. It took me three years to get Lee Kennedy on board with the cars. He kept "forgetting" to send to rules committee.

DW

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Bob, I think we've got a disconnect between you and Arai.  By the way, how do you pronounce that name?  Is it like "awry" or "air-A" or "air-eye"?

But no matter how it's pronounced they do submit their helmets to Snell for test and certification.  Go to www.snellfoundation.org and look for lists of helmets for all sorts of applications, etc.  Here's what I found for Arai:

Exact match found
Standard   Manufacturer   Model   Configuration   Certified size(s)
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    ASTRO    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    AXCES    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Corsair-V    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Profile    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Quantum-J    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    QUANTUM-ST    Full Face    XS, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7GP    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7RC    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7RR5    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-Q    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    SIGNET-Q    Full Face    XXS, XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Tour-Cross 2    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Tour-X3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    V-Cross 3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VECTOR    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VECTOR-2    Full Face    XXS, XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VECTOR-i    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VX-Pro 3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    XD 3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2010    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    XD 4    Full Face    XXS, XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Astral-D1    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Astral-X    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Astro-TR    Full Face    XXXS, XXS, XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Condor    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Corsair    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    GP-5W X-Bow    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    GP-5X    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Omni-J    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Profile    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Profile (Signet -II)    Full Face    XL, XXXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Profile Viper-GT    Full Face    XL, XXXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Quantum-2    Full Face    XXXS, XXS, XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Rapide-Ov    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Rapide-SR    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7 Corsair    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7RC    Full Face    M, L
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7RR4    Full Face    XS, S, M, L
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7RR5    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Signet-II    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Tour-Cross    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Tour-Cross 3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Tour-X    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Vcross-3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Vector    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Viper-GT    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VX-3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VX-Pro    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    VX-Pro 3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    XD    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    XD-3    Full Face    XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2005    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    XD-Motard    Full Face    XS, S, L, XL, XXL
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Astro-T    Full Face    XS, S, S/M, M, L
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Astro-TR    Full Face    XS, S, S/M, M, L, XL, XXL
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Corsair    Full Face    XL, XXXL
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    GT    Full Face    XXXS, XXS
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Quantum-2    Full Face    XXXS, XXS, XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Rapide-OR    Full Face    L, XL, XXL
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    RX-7 Corsair    Full Face    XL, XXXL
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Signet GT    Full Face    XXXS, XXS
M2000    Arai Helmet, Ltd.    Super/l    Full Face    XS, S


No lack of M2010 helmets from Arai.

[Hellcat Customs]

They do have an assortment of helmets that are Snell... They also cost a ton and don't always fit well. So as a year round rider who replaces his lid yearly its crazy for myself and others I personally ride with to buy one every year.

The interesting thing is when I drag race, the ECE goes through tech...but if there is a scuff or scratch on the helmet, Snell or ECE, it fails tech. I have to believe that the drag strip with barrier walls etc would cause more impact damage than the salt.

I know many riders aren't maybe as safety oriented as my group may be but we buy good ECE helmets because we know they are batch tested, they will handle impact and they are cheap enough we can afford to replace them yearly as recommended... If law said I had to only run Snell, many of us couldn't afford a new lid every year at 600 a pop.... I'd personally like to run a new lid yearly than have the same lid for 5 years if I have to hit the ground.

Dunno if I mentioned this before, I've never had a ECE helmet recalled because of flaws...I've had 2 Snell helmets recalled though

[Hellcat Customs]

Hellcat,

My apology, I forgot that tiny bit about being a member to propose a rule change.

If Jon will link up with me next week we can approach the m/c tech about the helmet ratings. It took me three years to get Lee Kennedy on board with the cars. He kept "forgetting" to send to rules committee.

DW

Thanks so much... I really appreciate you stepping up for the motorcycle field. Custom leathers no one has issue with but the helmet thing keeps some at home...

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Dan:

I'll find you next week and we can go visit Van Butler and Matt Shuss abut the motorcycle helmet issue.  I looked at the 3.A.2 paragraph - and now see why I'd missed it in earlier look-throughs of the book.  It says "FIA", not "FIA(ECE)", and my brain, looking for ECE ignored the FIA.  Oh, well -- it doesn't matter now - and maybe we can get the ball rolling towards getting more motorcycle helmet safety ratings accepted.  Thanks for the invitation.