Motorcycle Engine displacement

[JoeRider677]

I heard a story of engine builders certifying the bore and stroke of engines for Speedweek this past year. Speedweek 2011 I had to tear down my motor to verify bare and stroke since the stroke of my motor was too small for the little butterfly tool to open up and the increments of the SCTA hydralic graduate were too large to measure my 125cc cylinders. I was told the an engine builder can measure bore and stroke prior to the head being bolted down and supply some credential stating the displacement. Is this true, if so what's the procedure? I'm prepping for next year now

[Nortonist 592]

I've never heard of an inspector taking your word on the displacement after you set a record.  You can have the engine sealed after an SCTA official measures it.  The seal is good for a year.  I had mine sealed this year.

"I know it looks like an 2000 cc S&S Matt but I sleeved it down to 500 cc.  No need to measure it.  OK?"

[donpearsall]

By "good for a year" does that mean it would be good for the NEXT Speedweek?
I know it is good for the following Elmos, but what about SW?
Don

[Nortonist 592]

In 2010 I was fortunate to run a record at SpeedWeek.  The engine was measured and sealed.  I also ran a record at El Mirage.  No need to measure as the seal was intact.  Last year I was again fortunate to run a record at SpeedWeek.   The seal was still intact and I didn't have to pull the head.  Over the winter I had the engine apart so I had to break the seal.  This year after the engine was measured I had it sealed.  As Doug said "good for a year".  I don't believe the SCTA ofiicials measure a year in minutes.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Last time we had an engine measured and sealed, at SpeedWeek '09, Tom Evans (then the Chief Inspector) told us that the seal would be honored for a year.  We didn't have the opportunity to find out if that was a strictly-measured year of 365 days, or might have extended through the following SpeedWeek end.  In other words, it would have been something maybe like 370 days, or whatever.  Caveat Emptor.

Now - as for having your engine measured at a time other than a race event after setting a record:  I know that the new Chief Inspector, Matt Schuss, would like to discover a way to have engines measured and sealed at places such as your engine builder's shop or your home shop or whatever.  But that measurement would be performed ONLY be an SCTA-certified engine measurer - someone that is actively doing that for the Ass'n.  That would relieve the impound folks of much hassle of the race event - by having that critical part of the certification process done in less hectic conditions.  On the west coast - specifically SoCal - it isn't a huge job to find someone that could meet the SCTA's criteria as a reliable person to measure and seal.  But - in much of the rest of the country there are no resident inspectors within reasonable distance of many racers. 

A reliable person, to assume I know what Matt has in mind, in not just someone with the technical skills necessary to perform and record the measurement, but also someone with impeccable credentials - someone that would have absolutely no reason to cheat - using the crude term.  For instance -- having your engine builder measure and certify his own work would be a no-way-in-hell no-brainer.  Having someone that is actively racing a vehicle in any way similar to yours -- likely won't work.  You can go on, but it becomes difficult to find a person to do the measuring - and then, compounding the felony, there has to be a method for that measurement person to be compensated for his time and travel to your engine's location at the time of final assembly.

We'd all like to have the measurements done in a convenient location but with absolute "security".  If you know how to meet those two very different needs -- contact Matt.  His number and email are in the Rule Book, and I'm sure he's interested in working with the racers.  He told me so.

[JoeRider677]

Not a problem, just checking on some hearsay I heard. If I bring an acceptable  hydraulic tester; a graduate with smaller increments tube and fitting for the spark plug, etc. and donate it to ECTA after I'm done? I got my engine sealed in 2011 after the first record after tearing off the cylinder head.

[JoeRider677]

Slim, if it's the same Matt the I went through certifications with in 11 then I'll be happy to ship him the set up in advance of Speedweek so he can have it. Thanks for the insight.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I expect that yes, it's the same Matt.  Check with him -- and if he thinks it'd be a good addition to his arsenal he'll tell you so. 

[BVCBR]

If you have the engine measured and sealed it is good for 365 days from the date noted in the log book. We set a record at El Mirage last year on Saturday of the May event. The seal on the engine expired on Sunday.

Note; even though you have an engine sealed, the Chief Tech Inspector can still require a physical measurement to verify the displacement. I have never head of anyone having to do that though.

[Hellcat Customs]

The vintage road course association I ran with years ago had builders who would certify a motor... They took video of the measurement process and then sealed the motor. if anyone contested the motor at an event then a tear down was required if the motor was verified as correct then the contesting party was removed from their standing in the event, if the motor was sealed as a fraud then the builder certifying the motor was removed as a honorable source and the false motor was disqualified... So I kept everyone honest and you didn't have a huge rash of contested motors. You had to be sure people were doing something funky to risk contesting it. Blowers should be certified to, so you can prove they work and people aren't running turbos that don't work to run in a blown class...

It would save time in impound for the event volunteers as well as racers. would make things easier on the folks who travel a long way to run and be certified ahead of time. With the internet uploading the videos of the certification to a cloud storage would be easy to...

I'd volunteer to certify bikes in my area of SCTA wanted to take that step...

I think this would be a great step forward for SCTA and the easier and cleaner things are the more people and new blood you'll draw in to keep the sport alive

[Grandpa Jones]

I had a brief conversation with Tom Evans (motorcycle inspector) at WOS this year. He said if the engine
tests at the displacement limit using the "pump", they will most likely want to measure with another
method to determine the displacement. Understandable, since the pump is only accurate to a certain degree.

Then there is SCTA rule 7.D.3, which allows for .020" overbore of the cylinder. If you overbore, then
your 125cc cylinder now pumps say 127cc. Seems the inspectors would have to verify the .020 over-
bore with one of the other methods in this case, too.

Having  an engine pre-certified would be ideal, since fitting all the electronics and plumbing on a turbo
bike is like trying to fit 10 pounds of sausage in a 5 pound casing. Having to disassemble the bike on the
salt can't be very enjoyable.

Cheers,

Dave

[Hellcat Customs]

The easier it is on tech, the more volunteers you'll have. The easier it is for racers to get more runs in the more attractive the events will be... So I think pre-certs would be good for the associations and racers alike....

Like I said I'd video certs in my area as a volunteer just to allow people to run more and get more folks out there.