Author Topic: Engine swap and Altered classes???  (Read 11510 times)

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Offline jacksoni

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2012, 08:05:42 AM »
Because the fix was not difficult with parts available-thanks to the vendors on the salt- it wasn't that big of a deal to fix but more the principle of the thing. I have always tried to have my cars meet the rules and even with a new build have only had minor issues found- except one year when the cage on my streamliner (Jim Knapp's current record breaking car) which had passed tech for about 5 years was pronounced illegal and needed a bar welded in.

The issue was Rule 3.C Head Rest. The rule clearly says a "padded head rest to prevent whiplash" without any specification other than needs to be within 2" of the helmet.  Seats, even good full containment ones have some flexibility I think and many quite a bit inspite of back bracing as is also mandated. There is nothing that says what type of padding. My seat has an extension up behind the head. It is not a full containment seat, that function being made up by other portions of the ROLL CAGE ("funny car" style extensions on the cage) which have the SFI 45.1 and 45.2 padding. The rules (I have books going back to early '80's) have always separated the roll cage padding from head rest padding by type though they were lumped together in the paragraph until early '90's. So, you can see where I am going here.

The inspector said I needed SFI rated padding on the seat. The fact that the rule does not specify this did not matter. The response was: "Our interpretation is..." I was looking for Dan Warner (not inspector I know) to ask him what he thought when I ran into Steve Davies. He said " Our interpretation is.... needs SFI padding, change it". So that was one piece of stuff from my shop I didn't have in the trailer so had to buy some. No biggie as was available but the new wording in the rule book Paragraph 1.A clearly states this shouldn't have happened.  OK, is for my safety I know and I don't argue that. My neck is important thus a Hans well before it was required.

So long rant. I should have just done it and no complaint but this type of "my interpertation is" by the inspectors has been a topic here in the past and I think may be part of the reasoning the 1.A rule was modified. Also, if we want a rule change, submit it. But this was my 17th trip to the salt over 33 years coming from Maryland and as I said, have prided myself on having my cars prepared to meet the rules. Just want to know what they are ahead of time.
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline RichFox

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2012, 09:09:25 AM »
Nate. Are you sure that the EFI must be original to the car? When this category was being discussed some wanted to ban EFI outright. Others felt that if the engine came with EFI you should be allowed to keep it. I thought that was the decision made at that time.

Offline Kiwi Paul

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2012, 10:34:14 AM »
I`m sorry, Jack, but I`d have to refer you to rule 3B.2. It states that `Padding meeting SFI specification45.1 for roung tubing and SFI 45.2 for flat plate construction is required in the proximity of the drivers helmet`...To me that would make it more than obvious that any headrest should be made from this material. Hopefully a headrest is in the proximity of the drivers helmet, yes? If more of you agree with Jack that these rules aren`t clear enough, I would put in a rule change/clarification. Not trying to be combative here, just trying to help, if I can....

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2012, 10:45:16 AM »
OK but rule 3.B is for Roll Cage. 3.C is for seat padding. They are not the same, but I take your point. Readily clarified by changing the 3.C wording. If the seat paragraph was, for instance, instead 3.B.3, thus falling under the roll cage paragraphs, I would have no beef nor argument. Being picky I suppose. All of my ROLL CAGE has the appropriate padding and the best I could find. (And so does my seat now too! :-) )
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2012, 06:50:21 PM »
Nate. Are you sure that the EFI must be original to the car? When this category was being discussed some wanted to ban EFI outright. Others felt that if the engine came with EFI you should be allowed to keep it. I thought that was the decision made at that time.

Hmm found something interesting.  2012 rules say that OEM EFI is allowed but does not specify if OEM means original to the car or to the engine.  The next sentence does say that sensor controlled ignition system (part of what I'd consider to be "EFI") are allowed and that they must be stock and not modified in any way for the year and model of the vehicle entered.  Next paragraph says that sensor controlled engine management systems (again, what I'd consider to be "EFI") with feedback loop are not allowed. 

I'm for once thoroughly corn-fuzed now.  Glad we run in special construction.  :-D 
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2012, 07:06:22 PM »
I don't think EFI was quite as all encompassing when the rule was originally made. I never liked the "Classic Category" anyway.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 07:08:34 PM by RichFox »

Offline wickedwagens

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2012, 11:28:11 AM »
don't forget about the ignition.  gotta run either a single mag or single distributor... or you can run stock EFI if it's the same as what came on the CAR originally.  what year's your car?  modern subies haven't had the provision for a distributor in many many years.  not saying you couldn't put one on... will just take some work/effort.

The car is a 68' so it didn't have EFI originally.  It has megasquirt 3/4 installed on it right now, so I will pull all of that out (never even got to fire it up).  The distributor can be belt driven off to the side or so.  I don't know if an engine swap will happen yet.  It is either swap cams and heads on the engine I have or swap in a Subaru or Honda.  I would like to do the swap, but I might need the funds to build the rest of the car and get all of the safety equipment first.
1968 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
G/CFALT  106.643 MPH  8/2016    G/CGALT  113.131 MPH  9/2016
G/CBGALT  169.462  MPH  8/2021    G/CBFALT  146.715  MPH  8/2017
G/CBGC  158.242  MPH  9/2017   H/CBGC  94.334 MPH  8/2018
H/CPRO  93.383 MPH  8/2018   H/CBFALT  101.282 MPH 9/2018
H/CBGALT  120.591 MPH 9/2018
Top Speed 170.726 MPH
36hp VW 100 mph club 9/2019 102.319 MPH

Offline JR529

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Re: Engine swap and Altered classes???
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2012, 12:01:41 PM »
In Classic the EFI has to be OEM for the year, make & model of the vehicle as noted in the logbook.