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Author Topic: Motorcycle engine size rule?  (Read 7108 times)

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Jessechop

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Motorcycle engine size rule?
« on: August 02, 2012, 11:54:44 AM »
Rule reads:  7.D.3 displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next lower class

Does that mean that a bike of 500cc can not run for record in 650, 750, 100occ etc? Just wanted to clairify before registering for Sept.

Offline blackslax

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 12:01:35 PM »
Yes, it also means that an unblown engine can run in the blown classes.
It is refered to as "Running Up in Class"
Tim Kelly
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Jessechop

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 12:15:32 PM »
Thanks!

Offline TwinSpin

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 03:40:17 PM »
blackslax - -

I'm confused? Did you say that an unblown engine CAN run in the blown class? 

Offline blackslax

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 03:42:57 PM »
blackslax - -

I'm confused? Did you say that an unblown engine CAN run in the blown class? 

Yes, since an unblown engine is technically at a disadvantage to a blown engine of the same size, if the racers wishes to race his unblown vehicle we allow it.  Again, it is "running up in class"
Tim Kelly
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People dont see the world the way things are, They see the world the way they are.

Offline fredvance

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 04:56:37 PM »
Tim when are results of July meet going to be up?
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline blackslax

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 09:37:25 AM »
Tim when are results of July meet going to be up?

After I find my desk at work :-D
Tim Kelly
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www.loringtiming.com
People dont see the world the way things are, They see the world the way they are.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 10:08:25 AM »
blackslax - -

I'm confused? Did you say that an unblown engine CAN run in the blown class? 

Yes, since an unblown engine is technically at a disadvantage to a blown engine of the same size, if the racers wishes to race his unblown vehicle we allow it.  Again, it is "running up in class"

But, but, but . . .
Rule 7.D.3 as written prohibits running up in class, for displacement, anyhow. How can that mean that running up in class from unblown to blown is allowable?

Offline fredvance

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 11:36:54 AM »
This is LTA/ECTA not SCTA.
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline tortoise

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 12:40:07 PM »
This is LTA/ECTA not SCTA.
Yes. The LTA rulebook is online. As the first post in this thread says, the rule reads:  "Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next lower class."

If LTA is allowing "running up in class"  for displacement, they are violating their own written rule.
 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 01:01:13 PM by tortoise »

Offline half-fast

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 04:25:08 PM »
"Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next lower class."

NOT

Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next higher class.

(ex 400 cc must be > than 350 cc, but could run up in 500 cc)


Offline half-fast

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 04:27:40 PM »
See also Rule 1.B.1

Offline tortoise

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 05:08:51 PM »
"Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next lower class."

NOT

Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next higher class.

(ex 400 cc must be > than 350 cc, but could run up in 500 cc)


400cc would not be "running up" in 500cc class. It would just be in the right class.

If displacement were "greater than the maximum allowable for the next higher class", that would be "running down" 2 classes, and way unfair.

Rule 1.B.1 does indeed trump rule 7.D.3, but it should be referenced in 7.D.3.

Blackslax initial answer was wrong (he seems to have misunderstood the question) and he referenced the wrong rule in answering the question he thought was asked.

Offline fredvance

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 05:23:44 PM »
Tim are they picking on you.? :cry: :cheers:
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline blackslax

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Re: Motorcycle engine size rule?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 10:11:58 AM »
No, they're not picking on me, they're just picking.

As for not knowing the question, when I saw Jesse last week in town, we both seemed to know what we both meant, or intended, or implied, so I guess I answered his question...maybe, but I guess I don't know for sure, but I think it is a definite maybe that he understood what I meant...I think.

Here is a preview of next years rulebook. Rule 7.D.3 "Displacement must be greater than the maximum allowable for the next lower class." because it does create ambiguity with 1.B.1 "Running Up In Class:  VEHICLES MAY RUN FOR RECORDS IN HIGHER ENGINE DISPLACEMENTS AND/OR BLOWN CATEGORIES THAN THEIR VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH. CHANGES MUST BE MADE WITH REGISTRATION."  which was added this year.

7.D.3 is an SCTA one  liner tossed in when they stopped "running up" in class.

SO there you have it.  The rules process in action.  But just remember, when you show up with your vehicle, no matter how many arm chair tech inspector's opinions or interpretations you can come up with, or wether you think they are right or wrong, when they are teching your vehicle, Joe and Steve are always right, even if they are wrong...ish. So you might want to start with them becuase page i of the rulebook states All decisions of the Race Director and the Officials are final.

Hope to see you all in a couple of weeks.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 11:13:34 AM by blackslax »
Tim Kelly
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www.loringtiming.com
People dont see the world the way things are, They see the world the way they are.