Author Topic: EGT or O2  (Read 12447 times)

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Offline jdincau

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2012, 10:05:25 AM »
THIS BRAND.  BTW that's where I work.   :wink:
I have ben coresponding with Beau there. My proposed setup would max out the available analog inputs. I would have to give up two. Still trying to decide between a transmission with a closer 3-4 ratio or data aquisition.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

McRat

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2012, 10:33:13 AM »
Alternatives for people who are savvy with sensors:  http://www.datatranslation.com/products/dataacquisition/usb/low-cost/

Get sensors from Mouser.com.  This will go 24 lines of high res analog.

The EGT sensor on late model Duramaxes is biitchin'.  It will accurately read from 0°C to 1000°C (1800+ F), and yields 1-5v or ohms, I forget which.  Basically, you can read it like a boost sensor.  It is a thermistor? with huge range and accuracy.  I feed the sensor into an unused emissions sensor line so I can read it via the factory ECM (shows up as EGR position?).

I used the DataTranslation thingy to try and map out cylinder pressure in real time on my engine, and tie it into the injection event.  Also to see spikes in fuel rail pressure.  It's primitive but really flexible.  And fast.  It will capture the pressure curve of the combustion event in detail.

Not for the beginner, but if I can figure it out, I'd imagine most can.  I knew nothing about electricity other than how to injure myself when I started doing my own datalogging and sensors.

About EGT vs O2 on a gasoline engine?  IMO, O2 hands down.  EGT has too many variables to be useful, it's a "I dun blew it up" sensor.  In my experience lag time on conventional thermocouple (microvolt) sensors is pathetic and unreliable.  By the time it tells you #4 hit 1800F, the damage is already complete.  That being said, I do run EGT data. 

Your results may vary, offer not good in Alaska and Hawaii, do not attempt this at home, if you have an erection that lasts more than 4 hours, you must have driven the new CTS-V.


Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2012, 01:34:17 PM »
THIS BRAND.  BTW that's where I work.   :wink:
I have ben coresponding with Beau there. My proposed setup would max out the available analog inputs. I would have to give up two. Still trying to decide between a transmission with a closer 3-4 ratio or data aquisition.

You could use our 4 channel O2 setup and then tie it to the logger through the CAN data stream which won't use up any inputs.  Plus, having 4 channels of O2 is going to be infinitely more useful that EGT IMHO. 

OR, you could use an EMS-4 which is actually an engine management system but instead of having it output anything you could basically just use it as a data logger.  It doesn't have quite the capture rate that the AQ-1 has but for what you're doing it would work fine.  Or if you wanted to you could let the EMS-4 control your ignition and keep the mechanical injection.   
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Offline jdincau

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 01:47:32 PM »
You could use our 4 channel O2 setup and then tie it to the logger through the CAN data stream which won't use up any inputs.  Plus, having 4 channels of O2 is going to be infinitely more useful that EGT IMHO. 
?according to the instruction manual CAN BUS 2 is Not used with AQ1 Data Logger PN 30-2500
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2012, 09:00:18 PM »
You're right.  CAN2 isn't used for daisy-chaining AEM CAN-enabled devices together.  CAN1 (aka AEMNet) is. 
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2012, 03:15:08 AM »
Actually, I'm not sure that you read whatever you read correctly.  The AQ-1 has two CAN channels; CAN1 is "AEMNet" and it's only meant to be used with other AEM CAN products that use our specific protocol while CAN2 is custom configurable for other 3rd party CAN devices.  Both are present and available for use on the AQ-1.

I know this setup works because that's how I did it on our own car.
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Offline jdincau

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2012, 07:14:58 AM »
Yes I see now, I read the manual for the four channel EGT controler and the AMNet. Thanks.
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2012, 11:26:52 AM »
Yes, the 4 channel EGT amp existed before any of this CAN stuff came around so you'll have to resort to using 4 analog inputs if you want EGT data.  Why don't you send me a PM and let me know what your budget is and I'll see what combination of products would work best for you.
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McRat

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2012, 12:00:04 PM »
I found my notes on the "Best Darn EGT Sensor In The World" which comes on the Duramax 6.6L diesel from 2007.5+ (LMM+):

http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3838&highlight=sensor+ohms

To see images, you need to join the board, but the info is listed in text.  The sensor reads ohms like a $10 oil pressure sensor.  In fact, with no amplifier, you can just hook one of these to any cheapo gauge, and anything will read the data, even if all you have is a ohm-meter handy.

849 ohms = 1832°F

...

170 ohms = -40°F

Seems that 0 ohm is absolute zero.  These will handle at least 2000°F and last forever (yes, I've hit 2000+).  Why?  They are emissions devices with 100,000 mile warranties on them.  If you've used thermocouples you know how quick they burn out, especially at high temp.


Offline dw230

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2012, 12:57:49 PM »
Nathan's link to THIS BRAND is the perferred brand of the White Goose Bar team.

DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

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Offline JR529

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2012, 02:08:44 PM »
I found my notes on the "Best Darn EGT Sensor In The World" which comes on the Duramax 6.6L diesel from 2007.5+ (LMM+):

http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3838&highlight=sensor+ohms

To see images, you need to join the board, but the info is listed in text.  The sensor reads ohms like a $10 oil pressure sensor.  In fact, with no amplifier, you can just hook one of these to any cheapo gauge, and anything will read the data, even if all you have is a ohm-meter handy.

849 ohms = 1832°F

...

170 ohms = -40°F

Seems that 0 ohm is absolute zero.  These will handle at least 2000°F and last forever (yes, I've hit 2000+).  Why?  They are emissions devices with 100,000 mile warranties on them.  If you've used thermocouples you know how quick they burn out, especially at high temp.

I used that EGT sensor in my H/BFALT Honda engine a few years back. It's an RTD style and very cool indeed.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/Images/Products/Installation%20Instructions%2030-2050.pdf





Offline jdincau

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2012, 03:08:19 PM »
Nathan's link to THIS BRAND is the perferred brand of the White Goose Bar team.

DW
I wonder why that is?
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline jdincau

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2012, 03:11:48 PM »
Yes, the 4 channel EGT amp existed before any of this CAN stuff came around so you'll have to resort to using 4 analog inputs if you want EGT data.  Why don't you send me a PM and let me know what your budget is and I'll see what combination of products would work best for you.
I will Nathan as soon as I decide which comes first a transmission with a closer 3-4 split or data logging.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

McRat

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2012, 03:15:06 PM »
I found my notes on the "Best Darn EGT Sensor In The World" which comes on the Duramax 6.6L diesel from 2007.5+ (LMM+):

http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3838&highlight=sensor+ohms

To see images, you need to join the board, but the info is listed in text.  The sensor reads ohms like a $10 oil pressure sensor.  In fact, with no amplifier, you can just hook one of these to any cheapo gauge, and anything will read the data, even if all you have is a ohm-meter handy.

849 ohms = 1832°F

...

170 ohms = -40°F

Seems that 0 ohm is absolute zero.  These will handle at least 2000°F and last forever (yes, I've hit 2000+).  Why?  They are emissions devices with 100,000 mile warranties on them.  If you've used thermocouples you know how quick they burn out, especially at high temp.

I used that EGT sensor in my H/BFALT Honda engine a few years back. It's an RTD style and very cool indeed.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/Images/Products/Installation%20Instructions%2030-2050.pdf






That looks like GM sensor.  People throw these in the trash when they do DPF delete.  So you can get them for free.  But even at GM, they aren't much IIRC.

Offline mctim64

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Re: EGT or O2
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2012, 12:17:21 AM »
Good info here.  I just installed an AEM O2sensor and A/F ratio gauge in the Uni and was thinking of using EGT also.

As for a tranny with a closer 3-4 split I would say it's money well spent, at least it was for us in the '57 F-100 E/PP it made the difference in getting a record.  :wink:
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