Author Topic: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford  (Read 30501 times)

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Offline NathanStewart

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EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« on: June 04, 2012, 06:24:51 PM »
I thought I'd start my own thread on this little project we've got going.  The wiring was 90% complete and enough to get it up and running a couple weeks ago.  Paid another visit and spent some more time getting the four EGT probes wired up to the thermocouple amplifier and a Bosch flat response "wideband" knock sensor installed.  Put it up on jack stands and ran it through the gears a few times.  Here's a couple quick vids:

START UP - One of the immediately noticeable changes is how well the motor starts now.  We used to have to squirt fuel down the intake and crank it over before the old Hilborn pump made enough pressure to inject enough fuel to start the engine.  Now you just reach in, flip on the ignition switch and start it.  Much, much better.

WALK AROUND - Just a little show of what we're working with.

Parts list:
AEM EMS-4 (the brains of the operation)
AEM EPM (engine position module - cam & crank signal for the EMS)
AEM 4 Channel Wideband O2 Module (has one O2 sensor per exhaust port)
AEM 4 Channel EGT Amplifier (has one K-type thermocouple per exhaust port)
AEM AQ-1 Data Logger (records all data channels from the EMS and 4 Ch O2 over CAN-BUS data stream along with accelerometer and GPS data)
AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator (two actually - one to control fuel pressure and one setup as a dead-head pressure damper)
AEM High Flow Fuel Filter
Edelbrock 75mm Mustang throttle body with IAC delete
1600cc/min high impedance fuel injectors (need big injectors for the turbo that will be going on later)
JayRacing Super 044 Fuel Pump (similar to Bosch 044 pump but with ceramic internals)
GM LS truck coils
Bosch Knock Sensor

We'll be dyno tuning it in two weeks and then the whole assembly goes into the Creel lakester for Speed Week.  I'll let you know if it stays together long enough to get a decent tune out of it.   :-D
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Offline Glen

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 06:54:29 PM »
Nathen
I didn't think EFI and turbo's were allowed in the V4 classes, as I read it only with vintage bodies. I know we wanted to run a Donovan block in the streamliner and they said NO. Regardless it should be interesting to see the HP and on the salt. :-D
Glen
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South West, Utah

Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 07:16:26 PM »
Cool!   :cheers:

Looking forward to seeing it on the salt.

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline modelAsteve

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 07:28:12 PM »
Lots of wires!

Offline Stan Back

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 07:33:07 PM »
Tell us about the motor parts, too.
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Offline dw230

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 08:33:14 PM »
Streamliners and lakesters are exempt from that rule. Special Construction Category, not Vintage.

DW
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 09:48:17 PM »
But, as Dan knows, there are Vintage Engine categories within the Special Construction area.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline johnneilson

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 10:02:58 PM »
Hence not being able to use the Donovan block.

Thats is a nice looking setup Nathan, will it come up to Elmo for shake down?

Just working on butterflies and fuel rail.

John

As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 12:18:21 AM »
Tell us about the motor parts, too.

Well the motor that this is all on now is our "mule".  It's a B block, counterweighted stock crank, warmed over stock rods, SBC pistons (4" bore), custom grind cam, cam supports, big valves, hogged out ports, external belt drive oil pump, an original cast iron Winfield head (complete with cracks and brazed repairs), billet 10,000RPM flywheel and clutch, aaaand I think that's about it.  This same hardware has gotten us 140+ without a turbo and 155+ with a turbo and an almost immeasurable amount of boost.

This is just the first part in a very long saga.  So first, the idea is to get this thing tuned on EFI and get everything dialed in.  We have a "killer" motor in the works which includes a 5 main girdle, billet crank, billet rods, custom pistons, etc.  The last thing we wanted to do was hurt the "killer" motor on the dyno while we were trying to dial in the EFI thus the reason for running the combo that we have now.  We've blown up so many B's that destroying another one won't be such a big deal but killing your "killer" race motor with big bucks billet parts would be bad.  The original plan was to tune the mule motor and then transfer everything over to the "killer", tune it with the turbo, and then put it in our new streamliner and go for 200. 

Well we got the itch to run something again at Bonneville (I think it's been 5 years since we ran last) so we decided that if this motor doesn't self destruct on the dyno we'll take it to Speed Week and see how we do in V4F/GL.  We hold the fuel record (ran on gas) at 140 which is already higher than the gas record soooo.... not saying it'll be easy but we're hoping to run as fast on EFI naturally aspirated as we did before with the turbo and an untuned mechanical injection system. 

If the streamliner isn't done in time we'll just keep running the lakester.  The reason we're tuning with the roadster is because the lakester is more or less direct drive (auto trans with manual valve body and no torque converter).  We'll be tuning on a chassis dyno that requires being able to start from zero which the lakester can't do. 

No shake downs planned for El Mirage.  If it's going to blow it's going to do it on the salt.  Actually our biggest concern is keeping the flywheel on the crank and not so much blowing it up.  The achilles heel of the stock crank is the flange and we've cut a few motors in half after the flange breaks and the crank free revs to 7000 rpm or so and all the rods let go and take out the block.  Yeah, we don't like it when that happens.
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Offline Tman

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 12:38:16 AM »
Sounds killer nate! Even on jackstands though that scares me. We lost a local racer here when his altered got away from him in that situation. We/I never fire a racecar without strapping in and after Tom died, we keep at least an open faced helmet around for the guy inside, helps with the sound as well.

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 12:58:03 AM »
I've seen people warm up on only a floor jack.  Now that's scary.

Two heavy duty jack stands firmly planted on hard concrete under a Model B making not much power is pretty safe in my mind.  Besides, if it ever did hop off the jacks, the flywheel would snap off the back of the crank as soon as the tires hit the ground.   :roll:

Also, it seems like the guy in the car rarely gets hurt.  It's always the 22 people he mowed over while doing a burnout in a parade that seem to get hurt.

Anyways...
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Offline Tman

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 09:56:02 AM »
Toms throttle stuck and he would have survived hitting the tree next to the shop but his bare head hit the cage :cry:

But, sorry to hi-jack. What you have done with that engine is awesome. Gives me hope for that banger I have sitting on blocks for future use.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 11:55:01 AM by Tman »

Offline dieselgeek

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2012, 11:30:34 AM »
Nice job Nathan!!  You know a pro is in charge of the EFI when something that radical starts up like a brand new cadillac   :cheers:

True sequential makes the siamese ports issue completely go away, from the sound of it?

-Scott

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 05:52:08 PM »
Nice job Nathan!!  You know a pro is in charge of the EFI when something that radical starts up like a brand new cadillac

I knew you'd be the right fellow that would appreciate that!

Quote
True sequential makes the siamese ports issue completely go away, from the sound of it?

Supposedly.  There's a group in the UK that makes ECU's for older Mini's that also have siamesed intake ports and they've reportedly been able to fix the problem with precise injection timing/advance.  We'll just have to replicate the same thing.   
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Offline dieselgeek

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Re: EFI on Four Banger Flathead Ford
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 08:40:06 PM »

There's a group in the UK that makes ECU's for older Mini's that also have siamesed intake ports and they've reportedly been able to fix the problem with precise injection timing/advance.  We'll just have to replicate the same thing.   

A few of the megasquirt guys also wrote custom code for a Microsquirt to do siamesed sequential EFI on the Mini engines raced in vintage classes (or wherever).

Based on my experience (siamesed intakes in a stock-head Jimmy Six 302cid engine, and siamesed intakes on the Buick XXO straight 8 engine), I would speculate that if you aren't fouling plugs at idle then it's working very good.  From the sound of that engine, all 4 jugs sound happy to me at idle.  Really happy.

Some other nerdy fun, keep track of your fuel economy per run and compare it to what the MFI was doing.   We're burning just a little over half what the carbs used to burn, per pass, in the #1001 Daytona Charger (the orange winged car, our N/A A/Production car).  Only EFI dorks appreciate it but, it's interesting stuff.

Must feel good knowing that the tune you put on the engine down at your lower DA will translate exactly up at the crazy DAs we see at Bonneville.   I see mine making 14-17% changes in fuel, maintaining AFRs, and wonder how the guys tuning carbs or MFI get their tunes right - which makes me appreciate their skills a lot more.

Keep those progress vids coming, I can't wait to see this thing run on the salt.  My gut says you guys are going to lay waste to whatever records you run on.

-Scott