Author Topic: Can I get away with this?????  (Read 18577 times)

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Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Can I get away with this?????
« on: May 28, 2012, 11:11:27 PM »
I want to use a separate battery in my car to keep my 3 water pumps and data logging running even if the main disconnect is shut off. No other systems ran off this battery.....

I can put a fuse on this battery.

I know its likely a loosing battle but this would be really helpful to me if someone would give this a nod.

~JH



jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2012, 11:23:06 PM »
I would think that if you could easily prove that they are 2 independant systems and the risk of electrical fire in that system could be controlled......

Frank
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
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C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 12:36:00 AM »
Frank, thats what I was hoping.

I could even use 10 gauge wire and 35 amp fusing!
jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 09:50:33 AM »
Johnny, hopefully someone with knowledge of "the intent of the rule" will pipe up with positive angularity to the situation.
Frank.
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
Amy Hartman-Driver, Frank Hartman-everthing else.
C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2012, 10:13:50 AM »
The description "MAIN DISCONNECT"  is so that there is only one, very obvious electrical shutoff. This for your safety and the safety of the emergency crew when your accident happens.

The convenience that leaving the data logger and water pumps running is out weighed by safety concerns.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
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Offline RansomT

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2012, 10:38:28 AM »
Would running a relay help?   You could tie in a relay so that the pumps and such would be shut down with the "Main Disconnect", but still be independent of the engine electrical system.

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2012, 11:42:20 AM »
The answer to the question is No.

The reason is as Dean said, when the safety crews show up to help you in a mishap they will turn off the master power switch. If they hear pumps running afterwards who's to say it's not a fuel pump? They want EVERYTHING off.
At that point I don't think you'll care about coolant flow through your engine...... :-o
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

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Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2012, 11:57:54 AM »
I am officially withdrawing this question. Dyno is right for other reasons as well.

~JH
jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2012, 12:01:02 PM »
The answer to the question is No.

The reason is as Dean said, when the safety crews show up to help you in a mishap they will turn off the master power switch. If they hear pumps running afterwards who's to say it's not a fuel pump? They want EVERYTHING off.
At that point I don't think you'll care about coolant flow through your engine...... :-o

Points well made gentelmen, safety will always out weigh conveniece.
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
Amy Hartman-Driver, Frank Hartman-everthing else.
C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline RichFox

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2012, 02:51:06 PM »
But, if you use the push-pull type of shut off you could gang two of them.

Offline thundersalt

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2012, 04:03:10 PM »
I'm a little baffled by this whole conversation. Am I the only one who runs  main and accessory switches in the driver area and only use the clearly marked main battery disconnect on the front or rear of the vehicle between runs or in case of an accident?
916 REMR
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2018 AA/GRMR El Mirage Record holder 223.108
2020 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 252.438
2021 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 262.685
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Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline jdincau

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2012, 05:40:17 PM »
     The confusion comes from believing that the mandated battery disconnect is to shut the engine off after an accident. This is not true, the purpose is for the emergency crew to be able to render the vehicle electricly inert so that their susequent efforts don't cause sparks.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline Utahfab

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2012, 06:42:55 PM »
I think I see where thundersalt is going with this.  Setup the main master switch such that it controls EVERYTHING.  it's a master, emergency kill everything switch and should be used that way.  After that switch split the power to a secondary set of switches, main for what is normally considered everything plus a second leg for the list Hotnuts specified.

-The MASTER switch would normally be left on and would not be used for normal operation of the car.  It's there to meet the rule and if, heaven forbid, the emergency crew ever needs it.
-The secondary switches would be used for normal operation of the car giving Hotnuts the control he wants.

Thanks
Billy in Utah

Stock Hayabusa w/53k miles - 181.986mph.  Not so fast, Yet!

Offline thundersalt

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2012, 06:52:09 PM »
I think I see where thundersalt is going with this.  Setup the main master switch such that it controls EVERYTHING.  it's a master, emergency kill everything switch and should be used that way.  After that switch split the power to a secondary set of switches, main for what is normally considered everything plus a second leg for the list Hotnuts specified.

-The MASTER switch would normally be left on and would not be used for normal operation of the car.  It's there to meet the rule and if, heaven forbid, the emergency crew ever needs it.
-The secondary switches would be used for normal operation of the car giving Hotnuts the control he wants.

Thanks
Thanks for clearifying. My wife says I never explain myself well, I guess she's right :cheers:


PS. use relays for all accessories so your cockpit switches don't have to carry a lot of amp load.
916 REMR
2017 AA/FRMR Bonneville Record holder 234.663
2018 AA/GRMR El Mirage Record holder 223.108
2020 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 252.438
2021 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 262.685
El Mirage 200 MPH Club
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline johnneilson

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Re: Can I get away with this?????
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2012, 01:03:16 AM »
Something for clarification, no doubt.
From other forms of racing, the master switch is to remove the battery(isolate) from the rest of the system AND kill the motor. magneto guys love this.

However, I have in the past done almost exactly what JHN wants to do by either supplying a small battery for the data recorder seperate or using a small .3 amp fused circuit to the DR. If a small fuse is used and placed as close to the master switch or on it the argument could be made that it poses no threat.

I am not in agreement with the rules about having the switch mounted at the extreme end of the vehicle, if the battery is in the center then the length of wire is vulnerable to the switch. Should this wire become damaged in the incident, you have no way of isolating the battery from the damage. This is a very real concern because the wire is probably of enough size to carry a decent amp load to the starter and potentionally cause enough heat to cause burning or start something else burning.

The DR situation is easy, if need be add additional battery, NiCad from RC car works very well and doesn't need charging but once a weekend. As for the coolant pumps, my opinion is mechanical drive from motor, motor stops so does the water, except for leaks.

John
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.