Motorcycle streamliner rules

[Flaircraft]

Hi all,

  I am interested in building a 1000cc motorcycle streamliner, and intend on making one that is basically a standard motorcycle with a fully enclosed shell.  I would be laying forward to decrease frontal area but otherwise would use a fairly stock motorcycle frame.  For a better idea of what I want to do, think Charly Perethian and his "Rifle" high-mileage motorcycle, or Bert Munro's LSR efforts.  However, from reading the streamliner rules the SCTA expects the vehicle to be more like a 2-wheeled car than a motorcycle, and the rules are crafted around this configuration.  I am confident that I could make my streamliner meet the letter of the rules but do y'all think that the SCTA would allow it to compete?

[Dave Cox]

By the time you add the roll cage, fluid proof firewall, halon systems and parachutes, it IS a 2 wheeled car. My guess it that you won't be able to build it as a "normal" configuration motorcycle.

Just my 2 cents worth..

Dave

[Nortonist 592]

Dave Cox is right.  If a bike is entered as a streamliner you will need all the above and a few other bits.  Burt Munro's bike would not be allowed under the current rules.  If you are determined to have a sit on bike, as opposed to a cigar type streamliner, the partial streamline rules are quite flexible.  And offer a lot of "wiggle" room.  As if there is'nt enough "wiggling" done on this site.

[Flaircraft]

I've been looking over the rules for several days and have come up with solutions to the firewall, rollcage, fire extinguisher, and other bits of "car-type" stuff.  The main one that bothers me is the safety harness and the wrist-straps.  The harness is easily do-able if (IF!) you are allowed to have it mounted "backwards", i.e. the harness straps you down to the frame and the release mechanism is in the small of your back.  The wrist retaining straps are something that have me stumped.

  I would much rather be able to enter the bike in MPS so that I don't have to have all the car-bits... but my understanding of the rules is that the body shell I want to use wouldn't be legal in MPS.  Or is there really that much wiggle room?

[Nortonist 592]

The safety harness can be "harnessed on your back.  Jack Costello's 'liner works that way.  He lays flat on his stomach and a crew member hitches the harness.  He has a set up that allows him to unhitch it.  Check out 5050B on the SCTA website.  A few years ago a gorgeous partial streamlined Harley showed up at El Mirage.  I want to say Bud Greenleaf built but I'm not 100% certain.  The fairing and seat section covered everything except what was required to be shown.  I suppose you could make a sit on streamliner but I think you would be giving up too much.  especially against cigar type 'liners.  But in MPS I think it would be a much easier row to hoe.  If you read the rules you can just about make a streamliner to fit MPS.

[Dave Cox]

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.miramarevents.com/dreammachines/media-images/5050b-200dpi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.miramarevents.com/dreammachines/media-downloads.html&h=664&w=886&sz=206&tbnid=cJQZoXBkoV67DM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=145&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3D5050b%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

I think that's one of Jack Costellas machines, waaaay fast on a tiny motor.

[Dave Cox]

http://www.scta-bni.org/El_Mirage/ELM%2005/July/photos/bikes/B5050.JPG

here's one of it naked!

[Freud]

That was Buddy Martinez. After it spit him off he parked it. It had  a center steer hub and a bad Harley. He sat above the rear wheel and leaned way forward to steer. It's profile was like a shingle. I did a foto of him smashing it with a 3 foot long end wrench when his arms quit bleeding. He also rode the Martinez/McVoy ( Correct?) Triumph twin that was the second open bike to ever exceed 200 MPH. The Don Sliger twin Royal Enfield was the first one to exceed 2 bills and he was the one just ahead of Buddy in line that day. It was a challenge between them and Don was first but Buddy was faster.

OK Jack, correct my failing memory.

FREUD

[JackD]

Your memory is pretty good. The problem is that memories are not as cumulative
 as they should be and some kids insist on repeating the same mistakes.
Ed Ranenburg(RIP) was Eye Ball Engineering and was most famous for the Kawashocky
electric bike that ran at my LACR events. Remember the H2 Kawi with the loooog frontend ?
Buddy can tell anybody the importance of CG, CP, and crosswinds.
 His fall off was a real contribution to the sport as was Burt Monroe and his fall down.
 Remember Burt didn't fall off but fell down and was hurt.
"A picture is worth a thousand words but you have to pay attention and remember."

[Dean Los Angeles]

Here are the records you are going against in the 1000cc class:

S-BF K. Lyon BMW ' 88 197.121
S-BG K. Lyon BMW ' 90 211.698
S-F Burt Munro Indian ' 67 183.586
S-G Riches Airtech MDR OSXR 8/03 179.523

I have no idea why you would want to build a conventional motorcycle into a streamliner. The drag would be enormous.

The whole idea is to think what will make it go fast, and build it that way, not take something you have and try to make it fast. It never works.

The SCTA doesn't care what you build, they are only concerned for your safety. The rules do assume a rider separated from the engine compartment, but as long as you can meet the safety aspect you can run anything.

These are all soft records. Joe Amo has gone 223 partially streamlined, and 240 blown. Don Vesco went 251 with a 750 streamliner.

Heck, you might consider A-BG, there is no record there.

[1212FBGS]

There has been a lot of sit up streamliners built in the past... The Indian Arrow, the NSU, and Gilera just to name a few. All went fast in there day, that day has past and it would be pretty hard to build one now that will go fast. If I can ever figure out how to put an image into my responces I will be glad to post a pix of each of those bikes. what kinda 1000cc motor?

[Flaircraft]

I've seen some pics of the Arrow and heard of the NSU but never heard of the Gilera I'll have to look up on it.  Part of the reason for going upright, 1000cc is the $$ factor, I can buy a bike and put a decent shell on it for a helluva lot cheaper than building a one-off streamliner.  The smaller displacement streamliner classes aren't well contested as far as records go so I stand a decent chance of getting somewhere, even with the increased frontal area of an upright bike.  Besides, it appeals to me since it's more of a "real" bike than a sit-down streamliner.  The S/G and the S/F class records are right in the neighborhood of the speed I could reasonably expect to get first time out, considering CdA and power figures I am looking at.  Consider a stock Hayabusa: with a Cd of .56 and 155 rwhp, it goes about 187 mph.  Assuming I can build a bike with the same frontal area (piece of cake) and if I can only get the Cd down to .28 (pretty crappy for a streamliner but still half the Hayabusa), it would be possible to have the same top speed with half the power.  78 ponies to the wheel is a piece of cake for a liter bike.  Engine choice is undecided yet but something narrow would be preferable...

[JackD]

" A good student of history has a better chance at a future."
The rules and the records all have a reason for being the way they are. It is up to you to find out why that is and prevail over them. Some are better than others but that is more a reflection of human faults than anything motorcycle. By this time in the sport, most things have been tried and the ideas recorded. Safety stuff is pretty well established and if they don't scare themselves too bad too soon, the rider will begin to understand and appreciate them. Performance stuff has not been perfected yet. Some try to legislate performance when they should just leave it alone and let the riders go faster with the same rules. Keep it as safe as you can make it with well establishes lessons and magically the bikers will figure how to go faster if you just leave that part alone. If you try to change too much, you don't understand the speed record sport and probably should find something else to do.
Now for the Burt Monroe contribution.
Go see the movie. Study everything about it because there is going to be a test. He went remarkably fast for the day with great odds against him , but in the end he fell down and hurt himself. Don't let your bravado get ahead of the lessons he left for you as part of making that history you so depend on.
As for Vesco, he was a great student of history and worked not to repeat mistakes. He ran against the Munro record and while the speed seemed to be a easy mark, the failures taught him it would make a better history lesson if left alone.
We don't do enough to preserve our history and often suffer for it.

[Flaircraft]

The one thing that does worry me is the high speed stability of the vehicle I would be building.  I am familiar with airplane and rocket aerodynamic stability criteria and basic motorcycle stability is well documented, but have no experience (or even references) dealing with faired motorcycle stability at high speeds.  I have heard of more than a few instances of high-speed oscillation in streamliners and am interested in learning as much as possible about this area; are there any references available on this subject?

[Nortonist 592]

You might want to go over to the build diaries forum and check out "The Guppy".  A sit on streamliner gives too much away and as you can see by the photos you can put an awful lot of streamlining on a sit on bike.