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Author Topic: Roll cage gussets  (Read 4571 times)
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NathanStewart
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2012, 12:47:59 AM »

What about cars that use saddle gussets?  There are quit a few of them out there, will they have to change over also? Tony

Actually, when I wrote the proposed rule change I included some minimum specs for "saddle gussets" and for some reason they never made it into the book.
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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2012, 12:55:40 AM »

Nathan,  Can you post your proposal on them?  We are leaning towards using them on the Firebird. Tony
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NathanStewart
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« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 01:06:51 AM »

And to clarify further from what Dan said, a shoulder bar is in fact the bar that's at your shoulder in an open style cage.  Obviously the point is to strength the junction points where the cage hoops connect to the shoulder bar.  I honestly thought that mandating only plate type gussets was a little goofy and knowing that many cars have been using non-plate type gussets for many years I thought it only made sense to bring them in under the legal umbrella too and to use some common sense minimum specs.  Maybe I'll re-propose my rule change again to include the omitted "saddle gussets".

Rocket123, it looks like you've already got a same-as-main-roll-cage-sized gusset between your A pillar bar and your "shoulder" bar.  Instead of just worrying about what the tech inspectors want to see, why not think about where YOU'D put some gussets for additional strength and protection?  Does your top "halo" hoop have an X in it?  That's another form of gusseting.  Do you down bars (from main hoop down to rear section of car) have an X in them?  Does you main hoop (the one that goes over your head) have an X in it?  

I hate to be critic without seeing more of your overall cage design but I don't know how you got through tech without at least someone mentioning your undersized gussets.  It's not just a matter of meeting the letter of the rule (although you know you'll make it through tech every time if you do) but I doubt those 2x2 gussets are doing you any good.  Honestly, as a tech inspector, I'd rather see someone do something that makes sense versus just putting something some where because the rule book says they have to.  Just my opinion.

Don't forget to check out the last line of 3.A.3 while you're thinking about cage stuff.
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NathanStewart
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 01:12:49 AM »

Nathan,  Can you post your proposal on them?  We are leaning towards using them on the Firebird. Tony

Made of cold rolled sheet, .125" min thickness, same coverage as described for tube and plate gussets (outer edge of gusset be at least 4" from tube junction point). 

You can actually see the part about "fabricated from sheet" in the rule book.  That part made it in.  The dimensions didn't. 

Or you could obviously plate in a tube gusset and get the same thing.  The idea was to be all encompassing and establish a min spec for all types of gussets.  I've heard lots of people say that the SCTA only allowed plate gussets because that's what was in the rule book which wasn't ever true to begin with but is now officially not true at all.
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 01:16:42 AM »

Thanks Nathan.  That was exactly what we  were thinking.  Tony
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 02:45:05 AM »

The saddle gussets would be welded along but not across the tube?

Thanks
jon
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 08:33:31 AM »

I would drill a 1/8" hole through each of the tubes in the area that the gusset will cover, then weld the gusset 100%.

Pete
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dw230
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 10:03:05 AM »

When gussets were first added to the rulebook, I would guess approx. 25years ago, the chassis builders were using the plates. These were written into the rulebook and as time goes on new technology arrived.
As Nathan mentioned it was time to put into writting what was happening on the ground. The stitch weld is the preferred method of attachment.

DW
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 10:14:11 AM »

I would drill a 1/8" hole through each of the tubes in the area that the gusset will cover, then weld the gusset 100%.

Pete

Can I ask why?

Mike
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »

I would drill a 1/8" hole through each of the tubes in the area that the gusset will cover, then weld the gusset 100%.

Pete

Can I ask why?

Mike

You need a hole for the expanding gasses when you weld something up tight.
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Fordrat31
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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2012, 11:20:28 AM »



You need a hole for the expanding gasses when you weld something up tight.
[/quote]

That makes sense now! Thanks

Mike
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« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2012, 11:33:36 AM »

I am going to weld in some tube gussets where the hoops meet and wherever else I think they would help. So do I have to cut out the old gussets? Could I drill a hole in the corner of the gusset? Even if you think they are not doing any good they are not hurting. TY


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Don't forget to check out the last line of 3.A.3 while you're thinking about cage stuff.

Can this be part of the seat?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 11:47:30 AM by Rocket123 » Logged

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NathanStewart
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« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2012, 02:25:53 PM »

No need to remove them if you're going to supplement them with something better.  I wouldn't worry too much about the corner deal on a closed car.  Open cars manage to get full of salt.  Just be sure to blow the corners out after an event. 

Yes, the helmet lateral movement limiting device can be part of the seat.  Just make sure it goes to the front of the helmet.  Many (most) don't. 
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Kiwi Paul
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« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2012, 10:38:29 PM »

And don`t forget, you will have to do a bailout with your Hans Device ( if you haven`t already ) so make sure all your changes work with each other.....
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jimmy six
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« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2012, 09:03:11 PM »

I think the pictures on 26,27,& 28 are clear if you use them together. Fig 2 shows what a gusset should look like, stitch welded on the side of the tubing not in the middle.

Pic 4A and B show where they should go on those kinds of cages. Figure 1 would be hard to do since there so many bars.

The paragraph that starts "Gussets are"... state they are to be used when a shoulder bar has hoop joining it like figure3.

If all of your main hoops go to the frame in one piece I read gussets are not required. Personally I have added a few to my cage because I feel the triangleing could help and what's in the book is the minimum. My 6 hoops all go to the frame in one piece like many of the old cars.

You need to plan well and for the worst possible incident...........Good Luck
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