Turbo Versus Roots Net Horsepower

[jl222]

JL222, I'd love to see "some temp and pressure records from ''real life'' Bville and El Mirage runs"!

  I have the newer F.A.S.T. EFI temp and psi recordings but old records are buried some were.

  On our 294 mph 1st mile time run....boost 26 lbs temp at that boost and after intercooler 130 deg + water injection
  A 285 run short of end of 3 mile               24 lbs           177 deg
  No time noted on this run but 6750
 rpm = 306 mph top speed not average       24.5 lbs         150 deg
 
  El Mirage highest boost in low gear
at 47% TPS AND 6200 RPM                      12 lbs               67 deg after 5 sec.
 after getting lose shifting into high


          JL222




 

[38flattie]

Thanks JL222!

[SPARKY]

JL 222  What size plumbing and what size water pump for inter coolers?

[38flattie]

Chiller water pump is a Stewart E558 (http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=E558A&Category_Code=ElectPump) , good for 55 gal/min. the current chiller has 2-12an lines, 1 out. The turbo setup will probably keep that chiller, and also have a chiller setup like Tony is using on the REMR.


EDIT- Sparky, I just realized you asked JL222 that question!

[SPARKY]

from what I have been led to believe  JL 222 could use more intercooler capacity in increased water flow, or larger intercoolers to meet the HUGE amount of air they are moving .  I know he runs fuel and I plan on running gas---which  enjoys 85F-105F exit water temp --that is what I am shooting for

Most electric pumps will move only 20-30 gals per minute at the resistance generated by 20-30 psi---when we are at full boost at B'ville  I am guessing we will need to flow at 75-100 GPM to cool 1500-1800 hp  for the last 3 miles--25-30 seconds!

My radiator in a box would stop and hold temp increases with ambient temp cooling water  with 28 galons per minute actual flow when the Meziere 55 gpm pump, through 2 AN 12 fitting throung 7' lines was switched on.  As I plan my future dreams I am planning on at least 2 if not 3 55 or larger pumps to intercool & cool a turbo BBC--  that is a reason I have a 150 amp alt. on my lakester motors---

These are SWAGs and not chart or enginereed----YMMV

[38flattie]

So, how fast does a 1500-1800HP engine propel a lakester?

[jl222]

JL 222  What size plumbing and what size water pump for inter coolers?

  Hi SPARKY...  Fuel    We run parts wash   Fuel guys don't use intercoolers because of the big amount of laten heat of evaporation which cools the intake charge.  Plumbing is 11/4 clear plastic tubeing from Home Depot. Mezierre dual outlet 55 gal per min water pump. costly s.o.b.

    1 12 X 12 Procharger intercooler with dual inlet and outlets. Water flows into the middle of front tank flows to back and out at top of back tank. Air flows in at front tank bottom, up through intercooler and out through top
tank front. Temp is taken at top of tank. Intercooler tank is 38 gal and we usually put in 6 bags of ice but are planning on
using more ice.

  Our 294 mph 1st mile time took 114 sec from 1st applying throttle, after 30 sec tps 39%- boost 15lbs temp 97 deg.
 
  My chart for a 70 deg day at 25 lbs and 65% efficiency shows 335 deg
                                                        75%                         299 deg

                       100 deg day                                               380 deg
                                                                                       345 deg

  Our 130 deg at 26 lbs is pretty good, consider also you start out about 2psi  less at bville =28lbs and the temp was closer
 to  90 deg

 

  I don't understand this resistance you mention as the air and water are separated from each other.

        JL222

[SPARKY]

JL have you tested what that pump delivers through your system? 

Flattie  I have no idea--So far I am only hoping the new car is faster than the old one.  If it is then we might have a clue.  I just know that with turbos we have we should be able to do 1800 with my junk!!

[MAZDA1807]

Any pics?


Of the intercooler?

[jl222]

JL have you tested what that pump delivers through your system? 

Flattie  I have no idea--So far I am only hoping the new car is faster than the old one.  If it is the we might have a clue.  I just know that with turbos we should be able to do 1800 with my junk!!
[/quote

 No but the ice is melted at end of run so were adding more.

  I was modifying by above post when post was added.

    JL222

[Dynoroom]

So, how fast does a 1500-1800HP engine propel a lakester?

Well over 320 mph........ 

[Interested Observer]

Re: reply #56--
Apparently JL222 skipped algebra as well, since V1/T1=V2/T2 and T1/V1=T2/V2 are fully equivalent to each other and both yield V2=V1xT2/T1.

And he may be pleased to know that both Charles’ and Boyle’s laws are simply particular cases of the more general “Ideal Gas Law”, (PV=nRT), and are easily derived from it. 

INTERESTED OBSEVER  Problem out of ''Chemical Principles''

  IF the volume of a gas is 150 ml at 298 deg K what would the volume be at 653 deg K assuming the pressure does not change?

                        V2= V1 X T2/T1    SOLUTION   V2= 150 ML X 653/298
                                                                         150ML X 2.19=  328.69 ml  correct


  Interested Obsever's   V2= VI X TI/T2  SOLUTION  V2= 150 ml x 298/653
                                                                             150ml x .456 =  68.45 ml  incorrect go back to class

                      JL222

JL222,
I would appreciate it if you would show where I stated the equation that you ascribe to me, and say is in error, or acknowledge that you have mis-quoted and thereby maligned my contribution to the discussion.

[tedgram]

You have got me interested in a ice water air intercooler. Going to keep up on this subject.

[Bob Drury]

  While not admonishing or disagreeing with anyones point of view on this matter, I would invite one and all to reread at least the first four paragraphs of a post I made a while back.
  If you go to LSR General Chat and scroll down to Top Posters, Please look at my post #27.
  Let me just say that if Anyone doesn't get the message that they might want to find another site to post on.                                                      
  P.M.'s work well for personal conversations............................  Bob

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I dont know if this has been discussed in this thread but one reason that turbos have an advantage over crank driven superchargers at Bonneville is that they regulate their boost by target psi and a supercharger spins at X rpm.

Due to the fact that there is less air density at Bonne a supercharger will provide considerably less boost at the same RPM at Bonne VS. sea level. A turbo doesnt care if its spinning at 50K rpm or 100K rpm to make 30psi.....all it knows is to make 30psi. (OK, clearly all one would have to do is increase the SC drive ratio, but I am surprised how many people did not take this into account).

Another advantage is the ability to use multi stage boost controllers. The boost controller I use allows different boost levels for every gear, and even allows changing ramp times between boost levels. I now have a trigger system that automatically cuts boost if EGTs get too high OR AFR gets lean.


I have heard a lot of people talk of SC drive loss vs 'free' HP from turbos. I dont subscribe to the free HP idea. While a turbo may be more efficient then a SC vs. positive PSI generated it takes a significant amount of HP to drive turbos.

I think the real advantages are:

Smaller physical size to generate similar boost levels
Ability to mount the turbo in different locations. I have even seen systems with the turbo mounted 8' from the motor.
Boost controlled by PSI not RPM
Active boost control ability
Wide range of intercooler options (I am running 50 degree intake temps at 18psi boost on a 100 degree day).

The technology in turbo design has increased tenfold in the last 15 years. They are now more efficient, boost quicker and provide more PSI then the turbos of the past.

I would expect to see the number of turbos to progressively increase on the salt.

~JH