Fibreglass bodies, are they safe?

[gotzy]

Howdy Everyone,

Might seem an odd question but I'm collecting parts for a build and can't seem to shift the fibreglass & fire risk potential of a fibreglass car.  I'm in the UK so steel 23T bodies aren't readily available and I know I'll be carrying a fire system and there are many glass cars out there so I'm just after some racers views.  And don't worry, no ones word will be taken as gospel, just want to chat about it.  It's all worst case senario, cash and on fire, is being surrounded by combustible material a good idea or do the supressant carrying requirements take this into consideration?

Thanks for your thoughts

[SPARKY]

There are lots and lots of them in all racing venues  and they don't rust 

[gray63]

Howdy Everyone,

Might seem an odd question but I'm collecting parts for a build and can't seem to shift the fibreglass & fire risk potential of a fibreglass car.  I'm in the UK so steel 23T bodies aren't readily available and I know I'll be carrying a fire system and there are many glass cars out there so I'm just after some racers views.  And don't worry, no ones word will be taken as gospel, just want to chat about it.  It's all worst case senario, cash and on fire, is being surrounded by combustible material a good idea or do the supressant carrying requirements take this into consideration?

Thanks for your thoughts

I gave this a lot of thought before building my 56 Corvette. I determined if I used a very robust fire system, built a very strong cage and practiced my bailouts, I figured that the Fiberglass body would not be a detriment.

Dave Gray
# 3611

[hotrod]

They certainly do add fire load if the fire gets developed, (lots of pictures of fully involved fiberglass body cars over the years) but the key is to prevent that situation.

Consideration needs to be given where you might want to provide a non-combustible heat shield over certain areas of the body that would be directly heated by a flame plume if you got an engine fire at speed. metal foil faced heat shield materials, or high temperature paint like VHT on certain areas of the fire wall for example and painting the inside drivers compartment area of the body with an intumescent paint designed to shield the substrate it is coated on from direct flame exposure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intumescent
http://www.flamestop.com/Flame-Stop-IM.pdf

I have thought about this some, and came to the conclusion that the primary issue would be the area of the fire wall directly behind the engine and the front portion of the floor boards that might be directly exposed to a flame plume if you had a significant long lasting engine oil or fuel fire. A combination of heat resistant paints and heat resistant blanket material such as Thermo-tec aluminized blanket on that area could make the fire wall as good as sheet aluminum or perhaps even a bit better at resisting direct fire exposure.

http://www.thermotec.com/products/14001-aluminized-heat-barrier.html
http://www.thermotec.com/products/16510-competition-floor-insulating-mat.html

I have used the thermotec 14001 blanket as a turbo housing blanket in direct contact with the turbocharger hot side on my WRX and it survived over a year of daily exposure to those temperatures with no degradation other than the aluminized coating gradually flaked off at the hottest areas.

Larry

[kiwi belly tank]

You're over thinking it, park your pessimism & get to work.
You know us downunder's, say it how it is. This is tuff luv mate!
  Sid.
  

[Cajun Kid]

I think the rules say a metal firewall is required...

So on my 33 Vicky Fiberglass Sedan, I put a .090 metal firewall over the fiberglass firewall, selaed it and applied Lizard Skin and over it as a fire/heat barrier.. all good.

I also applied Lizard Skin to the entire interior as well,,

All for good reason, but now I do not Land Speed Race that car.. just drag.. I rave the Steel 53 Studebaker now.

Good Luck

Charles

[manta22]

Charles is right, a "metal" firewall is required. The rule book doesn't specify what type of metal but one with a high melting point and low heat conductivity seems to me to be a good idea. Aluminum may fulfill the requirements of the rule book but steel is better on both counts. I used a sheet of titanium to keep the cars' CG low and because I had a surplus piece big enough to make the firewall out of. Mine is a mid-engine layout so the firewall is behind the cockpit. Here is an old picture of how it was done:

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[dennisg]

  Manufacturers of shower enclosures mix resin with fire retardant.  It contains a lot, something on the order of 30% .

  So difficult to burn fiberglass exists.  I don't think it is necessary, as I've driven burning cars.  The aluminum foil with insulation behind it that Chevrolet used did amazingly well. It protected  a plastic engine cover which was the only barrier between a van driver(me) and an engine fuel fire from a gasoline leak.   

  The thread suggestions are quite good.  Have a good firewall, protect the plastic around the engine with  insulated  foil.  Covering the plastic surface with with adhesive backed foil will keep oxygen away from the plastic  and it can't burn ( at least on that side). 

  Carpeting, seats and  your clothing are all flammable.. If fiberglass worries  you, I'd be equally concerned about them.

 

[gotzy]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.  I'll be moving on as Sid suggests and building with due care and consideration to safety.  Thanks again!

[Bob Drury]

  As a person aflicted by COPD or Chronic Obstructive Pulminary Disease, I not only worry about fire safety in my car (as many site frequenters know from my views on going beyond the minimums for fire suits and on board fire bottles) but also breathing air in the cockpit of the race car.
  As the rule book clearly states, on board bottled oxygen is forbiden (for good reason) but there are other ways to improve your breathing.
  What I have done on my car is to build my own breathing sysem.
  I started by installing a 1955 Cadillac rear air conditioning vent atop the drivers side rear quarter panel.
  I mounted it facing the rear, so as not to catch any fumes from the engine or hopefully smoke from a onboard fire.
  I routed a hose from the vent to a 12V fan in the trunk, and ran another hose to a ice filled cooler box with a coiled copper (1 1/4") line inside and through a hose to my helmet itself.
  All these lines are covered with fire resistant materials as mandated in the rule book.
  On the passenger side rear quarter panel I mounted a identical (Cadillac) vent with a identical fan in the trunk which exhausts smoke and fumes FROM the cockpit.
  My push vehicle carries a onboard oxygen bottle and mask should I need relief after a run.
  At least one helmet manufacturer offers breathing canisters installed in their helmets.
  One more thing that I have done is to route my exhaust to the rear of the car which realy helps when warming the car in the pits and on the starting line.
  Why am I bringing all this up?  Because ALL flamables put off noxious fumes regardless of what they are made of, and that includes fire resistant paint and sealants.
  The faster you can extinguish any fire, the better chance you have of not causing harm to your lungs, and if you  (like me) have fiberglass panels on your car, I suggest you run double the minimum of fire extinguishment or retardant in your vehicle.        Bob

[fastman614]

Howdy Everyone,

Might seem an odd question but I'm collecting parts for a build and can't seem to shift the fibreglass & fire risk potential of a fibreglass car.  I'm in the UK so steel 23T bodies aren't readily available and I know I'll be carrying a fire system and there are many glass cars out there so I'm just after some racers views.  And don't worry, no ones word will be taken as gospel, just want to chat about it.  It's all worst case senario, cash and on fire, is being surrounded by combustible material a good idea or do the supressant carrying requirements take this into consideration?

Thanks for your thoughts

Gotzy,
Is this a racecar, a street car or a dual/multi-purpose car?....

any way you do it and even with a steel body, the potential for a fire in a hotrod is real.... I presume that a 23T car is going to be a roadster rather than a coupe - thus open canopy .... Your fire safety issues are well founded and attention paid to detail in regard to firewall thickness, material(s) used, panelling over and around the engine, fuel tank or other areas of higher fire risk potential are all things that you need to keep in mind. Many Bonneville cars are built with fiberglass bodies.... The builders generally do a very good job on the attention to fire safety.... and the few that didn't, at least at first, when the seriousness of it is discussed with them, they have all improved their cars in that "department"....

BTW, I do not recall anyone who has shown up at Bonneville with a car that was not allowed to run due to not meeting fire standards and not being able to effect "on-site" fixes to allow them to run the event... they were, of course tagged and the non-compliant items were noted in the log books for the purpose of having permanent repairs/improvements performed for compliance at subsequent event inspections....

If something "stumps" you during your build, ask more questions....

[Heand1987]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.  I'll be moving on as Sid suggests and building with due care and consideration to safety.  Thanks again!

good choice for that.,building with due care and consideration to safety..

[nebulous]

Fire retardent polyesters do exist

[tauruck]

Fire retardent polyesters do exist

Phenolic resins too. Used in the aviation industry for interior panels due to the fire retartdent  properties and low toxicisity fumes etc. Not easy to work with if you're laminating your own body panels. If composites aren't your day job I'd go with all the above advice. It's all good.