Australian Streamliner Bike Build

[Dr Goggles]

Jon, I'm in a pickle. When I built the helmet containment thing in the tank I was looking at some SFI padding from MMS here in Melbourne, called them no dice , not even in Sydney AND he reckons it is 1 inch thick.....what is the stuff you got called, where did it come from? heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp

[Jon]

I only have the stuff for on 1 1/4 bars at the moment, I'll ask around here for some.
I got Orange Aid for my bars but they didn't have sheet.

[Graham in Aus]

The Firewall is 1.6mm (0.60") as per rule 3.F, there is no thickness requirement in the bike section 7.H.1 so I went with the car requirements. (up the back of the book car guys   )

Jon

0.60" ! Now that is thick Jon! (Don't ya just hate those 'picky types'!  )

Looking good Jon !  

[Dr Goggles]

Different for us. When we were building it was suggested we use the heaviest plate we could afford for any particular part as when we were finished we would be needing some ballast and we would have few places to put it. Our firewall and our floor are 1/4 plate....our rear superstructure which holds the diff/axle tubes/fuel tank etc is 1/2 inch plate....that, is one heavy piece of kit.....

I found some SFI padding.It's on its way.

[Jon]

Good stuff on the padding.

Yep it is 0.060", I am not building my bike with unobtanium to make it light but am wanting to keep it reasonably light.
The rollcage tubing is a fair bit heavier than required by the rules, same diameter but heavier wall.

One of the upsides of not going to the lake with my bike in 2013 is it gives me time to do stuff like this:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=140895619558&globalID=EBAY-AU

Anyone going Sydney -Brisbane in a ute?

Cheers
jon

[rgn]

Hi Guys, I spent last night reading the local rules for the class I'm interested in running in, and my head is a little filled with questions.  (nothing to do with this post)

I'm of the opinion that light as possible with aero that compliments hp to speed aspirations is the best way to go... probably.

Dr.  I'm guessing that aero aids are not available to you belly tank guys.  Would axle covers, struts and steering linkages made out of symmetrical sectioned material with a negative angle of attack in relation to the fuselage provide you with some down force not disallowed by the rules?

Sorry about the hijack Jon.  Cheers.

[Dr Goggles]

Hi Guys, I spent last night reading the local rules for the class I'm interested in running in, and my head is a little filled with questions.  (nothing to do with this post)

Dr.  I'm guessing that aero aids are not available to you belly tank guys.  Would axle covers, struts and steering linkages made out of symmetrical sectioned material with a negative angle of attack in relation to the fuselage provide you with some down force not disallowed by the rules?

......funny you should mention that Ralph.Short answer no, then yes , and you get a pat on the head.

However, all is not the same, otherwise there would be only one type of fruit-tree.......keep reading.

If we had , say 2300hp, that may well be an idea.... if we had wheels inside the body........ if we had

Mass, rather than force from aero on the drive wheels is drag free, when you are hp challenged that is important....oh,oh, I hear engineers footsteps coming from every direction , I'm outa here.....

[rgn]

Make sense... in a way.  Aero comes into play as speed increases, weight requires energy to get it moving, it probably meets somewhere in the middle, but where does it end up... lol.  (I know that's not a word) 

[Jon]

My $0.02 worth, I do not want a large aero downforce on a single track vehicle, any yaw angle be it from a change in direction of the bike or from a side wind is not going to be that cool with downforce on a single track vehicle.

My accomplishments on the salt: 0.0000
jon

[55chevr]

At Bub's motorcycle streamliners wait at mile 0 for most of the day until there is nooooo crosswind. 

Joe

[rgn]

My accomplishments on the salt: 0.0000

Mine too!  That figure means about 0 to me though.  My aus scene personality rating is about = to -2.2365, I figure If I can pull it all together, what others think of me =0  I'll work at achieving my teams goals along with them, times running out.  If I can't pull it together this year, I might turn up to annoy everyone, and I guess if I put my name down for some jobs, it will be pumping out the shit houses.

[rgn]

I think I might be polluting the thread.

I agree with 55. 

Such purpose built vehicles should not be asked to compromise.  Design your Liner to do what you want it to do, within the parameters you feel are acceptable?  A side wind that requires you to compromise design parameters, or performance logistics on the day should not be considered surely?

[Jon]

Nothing is pollution on this thread, it's for the exchange of ideas and opinions hopefully, it's not to showcase or attract sponsors.

My whole bike is a compromise, I believe everybody's build is. The size is a compromise based on being able to see over the front tyre I chose, did I make the best compromise, will never really be sure.

Compromise on aero stability is a very conscious one, yaw/roll stability is more important than overall drag  efficiency.
Woody's work has shown that theoretically I have enough available traction to steer my bike straight with a bit of a crosswind input wind.
He is currently doing some more CFD runs with a bit more tail, we run in the real world, a gust of wind during a run or the bike not going quite straight are both things that will happen, to ignore them or say I will input to correct it quickly enough enough to not unsettle the bike is foolish IMHO.

Cheers
jon

[JimL]

Though I ride pretty slow, compared to many, I have experienced gyroscopic precession effect when leaning the bike into side wind and trying to run straight.  Responding to the wind wasnt too difficult; trying to hold it was the surprise.  Your mind says, "....leaned the correct amount, I can go straight.".  Gyroscopic precession says, "....here, I'll give you a hand turning that front wheel!"

My son and I both had runs that took very strong push pressure on the right bar, to keep going straight with wind from the right.  He had it leaned far enough to flatten the bottom of the exhaust and grind off my new heat wrap (@ 155mph, ah to be young and fearless again.)

You might enjoy reading about GP, there are formulas to calculate the force.  Those are especially important for oceanic ship pilots to calculate rise and fall of the bow, when turning left or right in shallow waters.  Apparently, the spinning stuff is pretty heavy in those big boats, and GP can pry the ends up and down quite a bit.  Pretty interesting stuff, and.....for you it means, don't play in the wind.

Great project to follow, we enjoy it and THX.
Regards, JimL

[DavieB]

Though I ride pretty slow, compared to many, I have experienced gyroscopic precession effect when leaning the bike into side wind and trying to run straight.  Responding to the wind wasnt too difficult; trying to hold it was the surprise.  Your mind says, "....leaned the correct amount, I can go straight.".  Gyroscopic precession says, "....here, I'll give you a hand turning that front wheel!"

My son and I both had runs that took very strong push pressure on the right bar, to keep going straight with wind from the right.  He had it leaned far enough to flatten the bottom of the exhaust and grind off my new heat wrap (@ 155mph, ah to be young and fearless again.)

You might enjoy reading about GP, there are formulas to calculate the force.  Those are especially important for oceanic ship pilots to calculate rise and fall of the bow, when turning left or right in shallow waters.  Apparently, the spinning stuff is pretty heavy in those big boats, and GP can pry the ends up and down quite a bit.  Pretty interesting stuff, and.....for you it means, don't play in the wind.

Great project to follow, we enjoy it and THX.
Regards, JimL

Just a question Jim,

Do you think any of the things you experienced with your bike could have anything to do with your front wheel being so far out in front and the wind/airpressure actually trying to turn the wheel by hitting/pushing the front wheel fairing?

I know about a little gyroscopic effects just from riding road bikes but im only just getting into racing on salt, one of the things i have been thinking about for my own bike is how much of the front wheel i can/should cover up and how it will affect me with a crosswind or pressure build up on one side of the front wheel compared to the other. It doesnt take a lot of wind on an area that big to become quite heavy.

Dave