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Author Topic: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?  (Read 36148 times)

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Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2012, 11:42:33 AM »
Or, more cautiously: pressure side, scavanger side, then, if the filters were CLEAN, no filter.

Mike
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2012, 01:16:23 PM »
....or that! :cheers:
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2012, 08:50:36 PM »
I think that I have related this story before but back in the late 80s early 90s Electromotive was doing all of the race engines for Nissan and they used a Pall HH7500 filter rated at 2 micron on the scavenger side of the oil pumps and their thinking, which proved correct, was that this filter would clean every thing while the engine ran on the dyno. The large HH7500 filter with a 2 micron element has a pressure drop at 10 gpm of 1 psi!! Their engines made major HPs and ran in and won many 12 an 24 hour races.

The industrial Pall filters are probably 10-15 times more expensive than the best Fram ever made but you can get pretty good deal on them on E Bay. Again if you have a 20-30,000 dollar motor is a $100 filter element that actually works to expensive??

Rex
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2012, 08:59:31 PM »
Nope!

That's why my rep from Kinecor is cross referencing the Fram for me! :cheers:
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2012, 12:58:46 PM »
  Flatee, go buy a new Fram and a new Wix race filter and cut them apart.
  You may be suprised by the difference in quality between the two.
  Then if you buy the mount for a Wix two quart Nascar filter you will have more that doubled the surface area a hell of a lot cheaper than a hundred bucks a pop.                     Bob
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2012, 01:24:20 PM »
Bob, while I agree that would be a very good way to get a better filter than Fram, and cheaper than the filter I will run, I'm going to stay the course.

I have all my fluids on the rig, analyzed on a monthly basis. Even changing brands, of supposedly the same micron filter, often shows up on the monthly analysis reports.

As much better as Wix is than Fram, Donalson, Dall, and Parker, etc., are even far better improvements in both filtering capability,and flow.

Even though the way I plan on plumbing it is not conventional in cars, I still feel it is the proper way to filter oil. I'm very curious to see what, if any, differences there are on the dyno.



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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline maguromic

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2012, 01:47:24 PM »
The PALL cross over to a Fram HP4 is PALL 25-0429.  Tony
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Offline Tman

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2012, 02:58:24 PM »
Quote from: Bob Drury on March 07, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
  Flatee, go buy a new Fram and a new Wix race filter and cut them apart.
  You may be suprised by the difference in quality between the two.
  Then if you buy the mount for a Wix two quart Nascar filter you will have more that doubled the surface area a hell of a lot cheaper than a hundred bucks a pop.                     Bob

I wouldn't wish a Fram on my worst enemy. I am just tickled that a supplier I just got set up with handles, Wix, Joe Gibbs oil, Royal Purple, and other brands I trust.
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2012, 03:10:35 PM »
Thanks Tony!

I have my Donaldson guy crossing it, but can you cross the filter I need, a WIX 51268R, to a Pall?
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline 38flattie

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2012, 03:18:03 PM »
Quote from: Tman on March 07, 2012, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: Bob Drury on March 07, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
  Flatee, go buy a new Fram and a new Wix race filter and cut them apart.
  You may be suprised by the difference in quality between the two.
  Then if you buy the mount for a Wix two quart Nascar filter you will have more that doubled the surface area a hell of a lot cheaper than a hundred bucks a pop.                     Bob

I wouldn't wish a Fram on my worst enemy. I am just tickled that a supplier I just got set up with handles, Wix, Joe Gibbs oil, Royal Purple, and other brands I trust.

Trent, who makes the Joe Gibbs and Royal Purple filters? Joe Gibbs doesn't make filters or oil, but I don't know who does his filters.

I believe Champ labs makes the Royal Purple filters, and also makes the filters for Mobile.
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2012, 04:01:46 PM »
  Flatee, I wasn't recomending the Wix as a primary filter, but as a backup filter.
  And I DO run filters on the scavenge lines, although they are basicly trash filters (Moroso inlines).
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Offline jl222

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2012, 04:10:07 PM »
Quote from: 38flattie on March 06, 2012, 11:03:42 AM
Hmmm, looks like Queezirider, Rex, and I, are the only ones who like the filter on the scavenger side.

Still, I remain undaunted!

I think strongly enough in my idea, although based on aviation and hydraulics, and I respect the opinions and experience on this board enough,  that I think some testing and data are necessary to make a final decision.

I’m going to test the engine, to get a baseline, with no filter 1 run, then move the filter to the pressure side, then the scavenger side. I’m curious to see how moving the filter effects to HP, if at all..


   We run a HP6 on the 222 Camaro with no bearing problems even after compleatly destroying one piston and hurting 3
others on our 294mph run, bearings still looked good. BUT had to rebuild pump roters on pan pickup side from trash going
through.
 

         Once you hear that thing on the dyno, you'll say screw testing for filter hp :-D

         But I wouldn't ever run it without a filter.

          Better to find hp through air fuel ratio-timing -boost and plenty of ice and water flow to intercooler.

                Good luck and get some videos of dyno runs for us.   JL222
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 04:19:06 PM by jl222 »
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2012, 04:16:36 PM »
Quote from: jl222 on March 07, 2012, 04:10:07 PM
Once you hear that thing on the dyno, you'll say screw testing for filter hp :-D

 Good luck and get some videos of dyno runs for us.   JL222

I hope you're right- it's been a long time coming!


Regardless of what happens on the dyno,success or carnage, I promise lots video time.You guys will probably get tired of them and tell me to knock it off! :-D
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2012, 04:28:37 PM »
  I bet your wrong.  I have a couple of videos that sometimes I just listen too just to hear Al Teague, Chauvin Emmons and everyone else..............  It keeps me from giving up and leading a normal life.........
                                                                          Bob
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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: How To Plumb In A Dry Sump Oil Pump?
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2012, 05:46:58 PM »
JL,
John, with all of the HP that you and Troy make looking for hp buy testing filters is really a waste of time and money. You probably couldn't detect a 5 hp difference the way your motor is trying to rip the dyno apart!

Rex
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