Author Topic: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur  (Read 138215 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RidgeRunner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2014, 05:07:00 PM »
Mike,

     Thanks again.

     Leaning more towards that direction now and will keep you posted when track time gets closer.

                    Ed

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2014, 05:38:31 PM »
Esslinger Racing has recommended either a GTX4508R or GT4708R with a turbine A/R somewhere around 1.0 to 1.2.

Looks like I'm gonna have to use cheaper cat food in my Instant Ramen.   :mrgreen:

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline Richard 2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
  • 2 Richards Racing
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2014, 06:08:10 PM »
Tial is a dealer for Garret  contacts jake@tialsport.com he is the tech guy, give him your info and he can verify it's what you want. Garret has one turbo, 40 or 50 something I don't remember, that Jake does not like. phone 989-729-8553 Teena  They also have controllers, BOV, etc..
Richard 2

P.S Don't give the asking price.
219.648 mph F/BFMR 2010 Record
4 cylinder Esslinger
Could of had a V8

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2014, 06:32:14 PM »
Thanks!
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline Crackerman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2014, 10:18:20 PM »
Esslinger Racing has recommended either a GTX4508R or GT4708R with a turbine A/R somewhere around 1.0 to 1.2.

Looks like I'm gonna have to use cheaper cat food in my Instant Ramen.   :mrgreen:

Mike
Jeepers! Thats a large turbo.  A much more budget friendly version would be a borg warner sx400. 80mm inducer with a fmw comp wheel and a 96 turbine wheel. Similar flows on both sides and upgraded to a 360 thrust bearing is just as tough.
They are all capable of 1200ish hp.

Offline Rick Byrnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #95 on: February 04, 2014, 04:24:04 PM »
The Garrett turbo Mike has now dates to 1997.  It is a prototype GT.
Since Garrett was a sponsor at the time, and it was not production, they would not give me a compressor map, nor much specific information.  I do know the compressor is 70ppm at 65% eff.
That is on a standard day.  SEA LEVEL and I think 85 degrees f.  We used to use 60 deg f back in my turbine days, but it has changed like most everything.
We saw 600 RW HP at 600ft altitude and 90deg f. at only 7400RPM.
With a better head, and more valve lift than the .600" I ran, he will make more power with that turbo.
At Bonneville, when barametric is 25" Hg, HP will be less at the same boost pressure.  Turbo's have come a long way since then, but even your 1200HP turbo will loose flow.

When you look at the car and changes I made thru the years, when running with the turbo motor the car was only lowered about 2".
The speeds I ran that week were not representative of what the car could have ultimately done.  The down run was 208.somthgingh and the return with #4 exh valve seat starting to go away, was only 201...  The down run I had to lift completely going into mile 3.  The rear was trying to pass the front, really bad.  The 208 would have been way higher had not "racing" happened on both runs.
Later years The car was lowered to the max  and went 180 with a N/A motor that only had 335 HP.

Point is, with essentially a new car, Mike can run that turbo for at least 2 years before he needs something bigger.  My advice to him has been to get up to speed, and when he runs out of compressor he can then look around at what is out there.  Garrett and KKK (BorgWarner) have really great products.
He has a base engine that will fully be able to support 120 ppm, but needs to work up to it.
I'll stop rambling, and keep offering Mike all the support I'm able to provide.
I have even figured out a way he could run Production Supercharged again.  It might be a little pricy but there are some parts out there that would make it possible.
Years ago, while at Ford, I made 2 tall deck blocks by furnace brazing partially machined iron plates to the decks of production blocks that had bores that were only rough machined.  (actually silver brazing)
The project lacked funding and was cancelled.  The blocks disappeared. (NO, NOT ME).  I'll bet they are still somewhere around SE Michigan. I suspect that block would be acceptable to SCTA since it is a modified production part.  Gee......I wonder.
Rick

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #96 on: February 04, 2014, 07:41:22 PM »
Hmmm, really trying to make me think, aren't you Rick?

For those watching:

1998 Garrett:
Compressor  ~90mm/64mm, A/R .72
Turbine  74mm/68mm, A/R 1.15
Single scroll

Slightly smaller than a GT4294R which is rated for 850hp, so maybe 800hp for the '98 turbo.



There are two, btw, one run in '98 and the other never run (as far as I can tell)

Plugging the new data from Rick (180mph/335hp) into Sum's HP needed spreadsheet, 1998's 600hp would yield about 219mph, 800hp would yield about 240mph.  F/BGC record is 207.608.

Rick, would a former Thunderbird driver have those modified stock blocks?  Would they pass the test for stock/non-stock that you gave to Dan Warner?

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline Richard 2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 465
  • 2 Richards Racing
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #97 on: February 04, 2014, 08:44:17 PM »
Mike I assume you have looked at this Garrett site  http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbochargers  you select up to 3 turbo #'s and compare at their maps. There is also at the top of the page a tech tab that has a lot of good info that some one watching this page may want to look at. Info from 101 basic to expert.
Richard 2
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 08:47:47 PM by Richard 2 »
219.648 mph F/BFMR 2010 Record
4 cylinder Esslinger
Could of had a V8

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8948
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #98 on: February 04, 2014, 09:04:54 PM »
Well Mike, you could run them twin since you have 2  :roll:

One bridge at a time, see you in a couple of weeks
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Rick Byrnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2014, 11:28:23 PM »
Mike
The "driver" does not have them.  Of that I am positive.  Both other guys involved were done racing after the Bird.
They were not part of SVO or any other big project.  Just one way to do some studies on bore/stroke/rod length  Done long before we had much analytical capability.   
I really don't know where they went.
And yes, I think they will pass scrutineering.  If they turn up, it is easy to see the chunk of iron added, and some very non production machining for water/oil flow and cyl head sealing.
I don't know where they could be, but find the thought of running them or replicating them would be really interesting for someone.  Certainly not me.  I'm up to my eyeballs trying to work on the liner.
I'm finally starting to get back out to the shop and getting some work done.  Hopefully testing the chassis this summer.
Rick

Offline Esslinger Eng

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
    • Esslinger Engineering
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #100 on: February 08, 2014, 10:09:19 PM »
Rick Byrnes, which class is your N/A car built for?
Brian

*** The above information is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Esslinger Engineering, Inc. ***

Offline redhotracing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2014, 01:04:20 PM »
We use a Bullseye (modified Borg Warner) S400 series, thinking a S476 or S480 would work well for that. Same turbo (S480) Mike Reichen runs in his 237mph EVO. 1200+hp
Luke- Winston Salem, NC
Loring 2 Club- 201.252 (2010)
Ohio 2 Club- 203.712 (2013)

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2014, 01:40:51 PM »
Thanks!  I wish their website was more informative.

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline Rick Byrnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2014, 09:35:27 AM »
Brian
F/Fuel Streamliner
Essentially, my iron block version of a 3.0 Litre midget motor.
Billet crank, Ti Rods, JE pistons and tall midget head. (an old one).
The car is my lakester redone as a liner.  Rather long and narrow, but all the aero requirements are fundamentally  correct.  The car is more conventional with only 4 wheels but will be capable of going faster than the original configuration of 4 small wheels up front.  I have added front and rear suspension and many of my own ideas of what MY car should be and do.  (I am a builder and love to create)

Life has gotten in the way for the last 4 years, but I am back at it finally and am determined to be out this year testing with ECTA at Wilmington Ohio.  Ultimate goal is 300 MPH with a 3.0L N/A engine.
Rick

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Second Wind: the 200mph Merkur
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2014, 09:53:17 AM »
Current record:

Unblown Fuel Streamliner - /FS
F       Tracer Racing T. Billington 08/07 244.416

You can do it, Rick!   :cheers:

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!