'84 Dodge Rampage Build Thread

[SteveM]

More good info - maybe I can shed a little light on the "small frozen boost cooler".  Frozen Boost is the name of a popular vendor for water/air intercoolers.  If you check their website, they offer several standard sizes.

I suspect that the "small" size is the description for the core size of intercoolers like the one I have.

I'm going out on a limb and guessing that you (Interested Observer), have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, based on the language you chose to use in your post. 

One key factor I've come across while increasing my knowledge of air/water intercoolers is the importance of bleeding off all the air in the intercooler's water chamber.  If the central chamber is only 1/2 full of water, and 1/2 full of air, heat transfer suffers.

My mind is racing about as fast as I hope this Rampage will travel.

What are your thoughts about running one of the "long ways" intercoolers in line with the one I have?

Steve.

[Interested Observer]

Steve,
While more is often better, for the reasons stated earlier, a “longwise” cooler would not be the best use of additional capacity.  Further, at this point, it is not apparent that more capacity is needed and adding such now would introduce considerably more plumbing and packaging difficulties that you probably don’t need for an initial attempt and tight schedule.
You are correct that properly bleeding the water side is important.  While you have shown the cooler positioned horizontally, it may be better to mount it vertically or close enough to vertical that any air will either be automatically purged or be confined at most to part of the upper outlet cap, assuming the water flow is from the bottom to the top.  This would obviate the need to drill and tap bleed ports in one or both of the caps and having to remember each time to turn on the pump and bleed the system before you push off down course.  An alternative would be to plumb the bleed ports back to the reservoir.
To assess the suitability of the cooler and system, it would be good to monitor, or better, record the inlet and outlet temperatures of the air and possibly the water for later examination and evaluation.
It is noted that Frozen Boost has cleverly welded mounting lugs in possibly the worst possible location--in the middle of a flat, unsupported, thin, aluminum sheet--a recipe for failure.  You may find it better and easier to weld on different lugs in more convenient and structurally sound locations.  And bear in mind the plumbing on the air side needs to be secure but able to flex and move around a bit, because it will.

[Freud]

Interested Observer it is surprising that You have mouthed the same information

that Stan Back presented at the International Cooling Engineers  meeting last

month in San Birdo.

FREUD

[redhotracing]

Looks to me like some people are very good at the cut n paste game...

I have a larger version of that A/W Intercooler, also from Frozen Boost.
In our experience, this thing was killer for the money. Ours is used on
a 6.0L LS with an S488 at 18 psi. We were looking at 40 degree IAT's
at the beginning of a mile run, 80 degrees by the end. Our tuner told
me that VP C16 actually makes less power with IAT's below 70, so we
go with a lighter ice to water ratio. We can pretty easily maintain 80
to 100 degree IAT's using a large cooler for the reservoir.

[Crackerman]

It is noted that Frozen Boost has cleverly welded mounting lugs in possibly the worst possible location--in the middle of a flat, unsupported, thin, aluminum sheet--a recipe for failure.

the end tanks are cast aluminum, heavy, around .187 or thicker, and are able to support the weight of the cooler without much issue.

I installed a bleeder screw to ensure that water completely filled the core, and it did.

I do have to agree that having the water "in" lower than the "out" is best practice for filling the core.

I do have to say, that the situation i used my intercooler in, was not "ideal", and airflow velocity could have indeed been too high through the cooler. But i DID expect some sort of cooling, when in fact a hot pipe with no cooler was almost as effective.
I am no engineer, but can read a lot (getting thoughts out of head to type is a different story), and understand how coolers work, velocities are affected, as well as directing air through the core to make heat exchange efficiency go up.

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=218&products_id=210&osCsid=cbf3e10dd89fc6df4d00443de59b542e
this is the core I used. I alreaady had an existing air to air intercooler to use, and reinstalled it.
As a street car, this was the best route for me, and all waic and associated parts were sold at near cost. So the tryout cost me nothing more than time.

[SteveM]

That is the exact same intercooler I purchased, and yes, the end tanks are cast aluminum, and there is a thicker section where the mounting bosses are drilled and tapped.  I would estimate that they are close to 1/2" thick at the mounting location.

I will definitely take a look at mounting the I/C in a vertical position.  It's amazing that sometimes the solution is right there all along, and just needs a different set of eyes to look at the problem.

Steve.

[Crackerman]

It looks like you have all the room in the world in that engine bay to do whatever you need to! must be nice...

Also in my experience...
The synthetic cord in the silicone boots will break down under heat, 95% of failures seen where the compressor outlet crashes into the corner of the silicone elbow. especially under sustained use. I dont know what your expected compressor outlet temps are, but it is something to be mindful of.

The solution i have found to be most reliable is to weld a cast elbow onto compressor outlet, and use a straight coupler instead, as there is less heat imparted into the coupler on the bend.
with that you can also add a boost brace to keep pipe from seperating under boost.

[Interested Observer]

FREUD,
I am not aware of what Stan may have presented at your meeting, but isn’t it amazing how Mother Nature can bring different people to similar conclusions?

[Freud]

I O, I rather related it to duplicate answers on a test paper when I looked over someones shoulder.

FREUD

[Jon]

Looking good Steve

There's lots of high boost- high hp bikes that very successfully run intercoolers the same style as what you are using. (they have different air inlet and outlet configurations for their packaging needs but same concept)

It's important to get all the air out as in any heat exchange system, a bleed valve in the downstream water tank is the easiest way to do that with a horizontal core.

The example of not getting any charge temperature drop even with ice is very weird, the water temperature shouldn't move much until all the ice is melted though.
Not trying to be a smarta$$ but sounds like a water circulation issue, the water wants to be circulating fairly fast, preferably enough to get a bit of a pressure drop across the water tanks.

I wouldn't be turning the cooler vertical, I like the plumbing you have, it looks like it will then have a fairly straight run back to the inlet with minimal joins.
 To me that's more important than tank orientation.
Can you weld a 90 degree on the turbo to intercooler pipe so you can run a straight silicone hose coupling from the turbo to the pipe?
Being diesel I'm guessing your running pretty high boost, it's pretty easy to put a tether system across a straight join to take the strain off the hose and clamps from the boost pressure trying to part the join.
It's difficult on a 90 degree bend, easy to connect the pipes but hard to take the strain off the hose.

My opinion only.
jon

[SteveM]

Thanks for all the valuable information regarding the intercooler and plumbing.  Here's where I'm at right now.  I have decided to drill and tap the top of the "downstream" side of the intercooler for a small vent line, which will dump back into the icewater tank.  I think that will give a good path for any air to escape the intercooler core.

I'm planning on keeping it horizontal for the sake of simplicity and packaging.

The notion to weld an Al 90 degree fitting onto the turbo is a good one.  I haven't totally committed to this idea, but would like to.  There are some other critical items that MUST be done, and this item is slightly below those on the priority list.

Diesel Fuel Injection Services has my injectors cleaned, tested, rebuilt, and balanced.  I'll be picking them up this evening.

I have a call in to my transmission guy.  As soon as he's done with the 4-speed rebuilds, the real engine will be going into the truck "for good".

Yesterday, I received a better-flowing, and better fitting intake manifold from a guy in Bulgaria.  This is one of those "Never available in the USA" parts.



The gauges have all arrived - Big thanks to Tman for sourcing the gauges.

There is plenty of fabrication, wiring, and plumbing still to be completed, but I'm hitting a pretty good groove of catching my second wind after my day job, burning a little midnight oil.

Steve.

[gkabbt]

Yesterday, I received a better-flowing, and better fitting intake manifold from a guy in Bulgaria.  This is one of those "Never available in the USA" parts.



There is plenty of fabrication, wiring, and plumbing still to be completed, but I'm hitting a pretty good groove of catching my second wind after my day job, burning a little midnight oil.

Steve.

Bulgaria, of all places.....LOL!      You never cease to amaze me with all the rare, super rare and never available in the USA parts you have gathered so far. 
Keep burning the midnight oil! 

Gregg

[Rex Schimmer]

Steve,
Looking at your intercooler if there was anything I would be concerned about it would be the size of the water connection. I looked on the web site and it says the water connection is a 1/2 inch NPT fitting. I would think that this is way to small. On the water side you want the water to go through the core at a pretty good velocity so that it is turbulent flow and really the faster the better. I don't know what you are planning to use for a water pump for the intercooler but I would think that the bigger the better at least 10 to 20 gpm minimum and that would be at some estimated pressure drop. I am sure that you are planning to use some sort of electric motor driven water pump, typically a centrifugal pump, so look at the flow of the pump at several psi of pressure head not at zero pressure as centrifugal pump's flow rate drops pretty fast with back pressure. 

You are making pretty good progress, looking forward to seeing your "green truck" a the salt.

Rex

[Tman]

Yesterday, I received a better-flowing, and better fitting intake manifold from a guy in Bulgaria.  This is one of those "Never available in the USA" parts.



There is plenty of fabrication, wiring, and plumbing still to be completed, but I'm hitting a pretty good groove of catching my second wind after my day job, burning a little midnight oil.

Steve.

Bulgaria, of all places.....LOL!      You never cease to amaze me with all the rare, super rare and never available in the USA parts you have gathered so far. 
Keep burning the midnight oil! 

Gregg

All that and still to find those elusive headlight covers!

[SteveM]

I haven't purchased a pump yet, but will most likely use a Rule bilge pump (haven't figured out the size yet).  I am using brass barbed fittings which accept 3/4" ID hoses.  A Coleman-style cooler will reside in the bed of the truck (probably 48 quart), and the water lines will run along the driver's side subframe rail from the bed to the engine compartment.

With respect to pumps, I have seen photos of guys using either the Livewell style pumps or the Bilge style pumps.  For the sake of simplicity, I was planning to use a bilge style pump, which would reside inside the cooler, as opposed to a livewell style with external plumbing.