Landracing Forum Home
May 25, 2019, 06:02:20 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 [31] 32   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Inline-four crankshaft  (Read 184872 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jacksoni
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 74
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 1144




Ignore
« Reply #450 on: November 06, 2018, 08:08:48 AM »

Are your cam bores still straight? I've had some trouble with head warping (when I first got the head it was not straight and then I got it hot once and did further damage) and the cam tunnels were then out as well as deck not being flat.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 08:22:26 AM by jacksoni » Logged

Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 176.245  2018
 G/GMS-178.835 2010
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #451 on: November 07, 2018, 12:56:12 AM »

Yes, cam bores are aligned okay. Maybe I shouldn't have said the head "lifted", since the top surface of the head was still flat. The distortion was all at the head's deck surface- as if the center of the head got "crushed" a little. [These heads were made in 1961- cast aluminum alloys weren't as advanced as today's are].
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #452 on: November 23, 2018, 10:44:41 PM »

Engine is back together. Too wintry now to wheel it outside for more test running.
Finally got around to some research that I had postponed. Put together a test sample to look at possible loss of fastener torque after heat cycles of the magnesium crank filler segments. Identical fasteners and material thicknesses as the actual crank, and included a steel-to-steel "control sample". Ran it through six cycles of 15 minutes at 230 degrees F, then cool. No real surprise in results- steel-to-steel lost 25% torque, magnesium-on-steel lost an average of 33%. That's still within the safety margin of the design, but not by a lot. Next time the pan is off I'll re-torque those fasteners.
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #453 on: January 16, 2019, 11:04:44 PM »

Idle minds breed trouble?... shocked

I've rigged up a "static dyno" to enable loading the engine somewhat during the next test-running. Removed all weights (even the attaching bolts) from the full-centrifugal CrowerGlide- I guessed full lockup will now be up around 6,000 RPM (Crower guesses about 5,500). Made up a rugged 2' long torque arm on the QC box's output shaft, anchored to an S-type load cell, which is in turn anchored to the engine mounting (via an old-fashioned 550 lb. game scale, for quick visual reference). Logging ten data points per second should provide some useful data, despite being limited to 2-3 seconds bursts to not cook the clutch too badly. The arm also has a shock absorber to dampen its movement.

Don't be too alarmed- there's plenty of over-sizing of fasteners and other pieces. And a stout "gate" is provided to contain the arm in any event.

Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
salt27
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 62
Location: S.W. Orygun
Posts: 1348





Ignore
« Reply #454 on: January 16, 2019, 11:49:17 PM »

Will there be a video?

Be safe Jack.   shocked
Logged
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #455 on: January 25, 2019, 01:03:11 AM »

Finished the torque monitoring stuff. The instrument amplifier I bought was crammed onto a 1" square board, which I had to package in a plastic box with terminal strips. Just soldering 7 wires onto that tiny board was a challenge for my shaky hands. Wired it into the engine's harness, spent some time setting the gain and offset, and set up the logger channel for torque readings (thanks for the loan of  the logger, Stainless!). Static loads show it's pretty close to the game scale readings from 0 - 440 ft.lb.- I'll tabulate more increments tomorrow to get percentage-difference numbers.

[No, I don't do videos...]
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 01:29:26 AM by Jack Gifford » Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
manta22
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 80
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3368


What, me worry?




Ignore
« Reply #456 on: January 25, 2019, 10:22:15 AM »

What instrument amplifier did you use, Jack?


Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Logged

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #457 on: January 25, 2019, 11:24:56 PM »

In-amp is an AD620, on a board with gain & offset resistors, miscellaneous filters, etc.

This plot (done statically) shows some non-linearity, but I don't know whether the load cell or the spring-type game scale is more to blame. In any case, it will [hopefully] provide a little useful data.


* torque_sensor.jpg (28.28 KB, 637x887 - viewed 90 times.)
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #458 on: April 06, 2019, 10:53:16 PM »

I can't find a twiddling-thumbs moticon...

Just waiting for mild weather- for another test-run (and bearing inspection, etc.), then start cramming it into the lakester.
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
Koncretekid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 71
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia & Lafayette, Co.
Posts: 1091





Ignore
« Reply #459 on: April 08, 2019, 09:59:05 PM »

Idle minds breed trouble?... shocked

Don't be too alarmed- there's plenty of over-sizing of fasteners and other pieces. And a stout "gate" is provided to contain the arm in any event.


So the torque arm and the scale are well fastened, but don't forget to anchor the motor down.  500 ft. lbs. could probably turn the whole car over.

Tom
Logged

We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #460 on: April 27, 2019, 01:03:56 AM »

Nice weather yesterday. Got a friend to play fireman and monitor air/fuel ratios on the laptop. Didn't hurt anything or anybody!

Logging didn't work (RFI from magneto?). My plan for higher speed lockup of the CrowerGlide (5,000 RPM or so) was all wet- I ignored the fact that centrifugal force increases as the square of angular velocity. Even with no clutch weights, full throttle for 2-3 seconds only got a little over 4,000 RPM, with the analog scale showing about 300 ft.lb. of torque.

Bad stuff: no log of precise data, barely made any boost pressure, and didn't get to where it's intended to make power (6,000-9,000 RPM).

Good stuff: air/fuel was around 5:1 as hoped (still conservative but better than the 4:1 at the dyno shop), engine was stable and smooth while under load at full throttle, and no indication of clutch destruction (other than cool-down noises afterward!).

Rationalizations: if scaled up from 182 c.i. to 454 c.i. these numbers would be 750 ft.lb. and 600 HP @ 4,000 RPM.

I believe it's at least capable of propelling the car, so I guess it's time to look at squeezing it into the lakester.
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
fordboy628
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 2
Location: Koozebane
Posts: 2227


GONE FISHIN' . . .




Ignore
« Reply #461 on: April 27, 2019, 05:39:10 AM »

Nice weather yesterday. Got a friend to play fireman and monitor air/fuel ratios on the laptop. Didn't hurt anything or anybody!

Logging didn't work (RFI from magneto?). My plan for higher speed lockup of the CrowerGlide (5,000 RPM or so) was all wet- I ignored the fact that centrifugal force increases as the square of angular velocity. Even with no clutch weights, full throttle for 2-3 seconds only got a little over 4,000 RPM, with the analog scale showing about 300 ft.lb. of torque.

Bad stuff: no log of precise data, barely made any boost pressure, and didn't get to where it's intended to make power (6,000-9,000 RPM).

Good stuff: air/fuel was around 5:1 as hoped (still conservative but better than the 4:1 at the dyno shop), engine was stable and smooth while under load at full throttle, and no indication of clutch destruction (other than cool-down noises afterward!).

Rationalizations: if scaled up from 182 c.i. to 454 c.i. these numbers would be 750 ft.lb. and 600 HP @ 4,000 RPM.

I believe it's at least capable of propelling the car, so I guess it's time to look at squeezing it into the lakester.

VERY likely.    I have had to fabricate a "magneto shield" on some dyno installations to be able to prevent interference.

A length of large diameter aluminum tubing with a grounding wire usually works.  Think mag suppression for a P-51.    NO mag suppression, NO RADIO . . . . SO . . . . . 
Some P-51's also used grounded brass tubes to "encase" the spark plug wires . . . . .

I have heard that in a pinch, Reynolds Wrap (aluminum foil) can be your friend . . . . . . . .

Glad to see your project up and running again.

 cheers
M
Logged

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #462 on: May 15, 2019, 11:43:10 PM »

Baby steps...........


* baby_steps_1.jpg (308.79 KB, 800x600 - viewed 69 times.)
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 78
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1245





Ignore
« Reply #463 on: May 15, 2019, 11:45:36 PM »

..........


* baby_steps_2.jpg (327 KB, 800x600 - viewed 77 times.)
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)
RidgeRunner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Location: Ashfield, in the Territories of Western Massachusetts
Posts: 769




Ignore
« Reply #464 on: May 16, 2019, 07:11:20 AM »

Jack,

     Looking great!

     Any plans for some shake down passes at Loring or are they too far off yet?

     I like the spreader bar concept on your lifting device, great new ideas for a new one for us when I get 'round to it cheers

                      Ed
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 [31] 32   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page April 12, 2019, 09:48:51 AM