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Author Topic: Inline-four crankshaft  (Read 209594 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2013, 02:17:27 PM »
Hi, Jack –

Usually what leads people to non standard practices in firing order is a deficiency in head airflow patterns.  Ed Winfield ran a 1-3-2-4 in his Ford banger on the dry lakes back in the 1930's.  The advantage for him was the shared intakes were not robbed by the adjoining cylinder during the cam events which left both intakes partially open.  Simon Gardner did the same thing with a Sprite engine in Australia a number of years ago for the same reason.

But seeing as you've got a really good breathing head with individual ports all the way around, I'd suggest you just keep it 1-3-4-2, and make the components as light as possible.  It works, it’s proven, and it won’t detach your retinas when you spank it.

You're already re-inventing the Hemi - why re-invent the wheel?

:cheers: 
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Offline manta22

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2013, 03:37:17 PM »
Speaking of crankshafts...

FYI, I had never seen a welded-up crankshaft made of sheet metal before but here it is. I took this picture in the ghost town of Santa Laura, Chile in an abandoned nitrate processing facility. Spooky location all alone in the desert-- a great location for a movie.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2013, 03:43:53 PM »
Neil, was that for a stamping mill?
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Offline manta22

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2013, 04:16:39 PM »
Bill;

No, that was a HUGE 2-cylinder air motor, I think. There were many other derelict machines lying around, most made in England between 1870 and 1920. Here are a couple of other photos (sorry about the thread hijack):

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Ken Yooper

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #79 on: March 16, 2013, 05:22:55 PM »
In 2006 the Blowfish team ran a 3.0 turbocharged  four cylinder on alcohol.  I think it was a pushrod motor - went about 249 as I remember.    Might want to contact them and see what their thoughts might be.

I have a few pics of the engine but for some reason I cannot post them
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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #80 on: July 31, 2013, 12:43:22 AM »
Now that the DOHC top-end fabrication is finished (some parts at heat-treat, and Ron Iskenderian looking at creating the camshafts), I'm proceeding with the cracked-but-welded "junk" Harvey-Aluminum block. Machined some of the welds, made press-fit plugs for the cam bores, plugged oil passages that won't be used, and made 2024-T6 center-three main caps. I need to finish dowel-pinning the caps, get some original iron front and rear caps, then can send it out to align-bore.
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2013, 04:43:42 AM »
That's looking good! :cheers:

Any pics of what you did on the DOHC top-end?
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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2013, 12:25:04 AM »
I won't bother with photos of the top-end until I've got a pair of camshafts, so it can all be assembled at once.
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Robin UK

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2013, 03:18:54 AM »
Jack,
Love your project and thought you might be interested in this. The little known UK company of Lea-Francis produced twin cam fours designed by Hugh Rose who they poached from Riley. The engine he produced had many similarities to the Riley unit. Post WW2 Connaught in the UK used LeaF chassis and engines as an affordable way into both F2 and sports car racing.  1.5 litre and 1.8 litre engines made their way to Australia and the US for midget racing but never managed to crack the Offy stranglehold.

Ivan Dutton - well known in the UK for his Bugatti expertise-  is rebuilding a number of them that he has brought back to the UK. I've rescued a long abandoned 1948 LeaF to use as the basis of my next project. A fellow club member has had his cams re-profiled by Kent Cams here in the UK. I'll post another pic of his rebuilt engine when I can find it. Old age.

Here is a pic of a LeaF  engined midget and a link to an Aussie website with more pics.

http://justmidgets.homestead.com/thebeasleys.html

Cheers

Robin

Robin UK

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2013, 03:53:17 AM »
Here's the pic of the LeaF engine with the covers off.

Robin

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2013, 12:37:33 AM »
Interesting engine- and I love the midget pictures! Even though it's a "high cam" engine, there appears to be, nontheless, quite of bit of mass in pushrods and rockers. In my DOHC design, total mass of one "valvetrain" is a one-piece follower-finger- 4140, U-shaped cross-section, 3.3" long (fulcrom center to valve roller center). At the cam lobe they use Isky EZ-roll needle-less wheels and axles.
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Offline vwpsycho

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2013, 01:19:16 AM »
For what it's worth, we use production Volkswagen 121 cubic inch inline fours and produce very reliable turbocharged outputs of over 800 hp. The crankshaft of choice is an off-the-shelf (under $1000) 2.0 liter turbo forged steel (flat) crank that has proven durable at outputs of over 1000 hp. 
92.8mm (3.65") stroke / 83mm (3.27") bore isn't an ideal situation, but the confining 88mm bore centers of Volkswagen inlines are what we live with.

We also use solid engine/transaxle mounting, which has actually helped dampen the ridiculous shaking the engine produces at 8800 rpm. We don't spin the engine any faster, since stock oiling starts to give up in the 8000 rpm range.

With a well-designed turbo system/camshafts/valves and ports there is no need for you to rev a (giant from our perspective,) three liter engine beyond 7500 RPM to get a relaxed 1000-1200 hp.

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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2013, 11:54:04 PM »
vw- that's  encouraging to know that a flat crank is a good choice. Firing order 1-3-4-2? Eight-counterweight crank? What rod length?

As for a "relaxed" 1,200 HP @ 7,500 RPM of a 3 liter engine- that's fantasy to me. 840 lb.ft. @ 7,500 RPM? Almost 6.6 HP/c.i.? Not even in my wildest dreams... :roll:
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 11:58:55 PM by Jack Gifford »
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Offline Crackerman

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #88 on: August 27, 2013, 10:06:43 AM »
I am also going to have to chime in on the flat crank.
Mitsu 4g63 engines use one as well. With 5 bearing caps and balance shafts.
At two liters and no fill,600- 800 hp daily driveable is  pretty doable for reasonable costs.
 Over a thousand on a filled block and e98 is fairly standard and required to be competetive.

You may have heard of mike reichen and the worlds fastest evo. 236 at maxton. He uses this engine on a factory crank and a single 80mm turbo.  1100 or so hp at 10k rpm and 600 ish torque Up around 8500rpm.

Cylinder 1 and 4 are paired and 2-3 are paired.

They use a 150 mm rod and can go upwards of 156 with "stroker" pistons and maintain deck height. Destroking a 2.4 block to 2.1 l and using a 162ish mm rods is also a doable endeavor to rod ratio down and rpms up.

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #89 on: August 31, 2013, 11:25:27 PM »
... With a well-designed turbo system/camshafts/valves and ports there is no need for you to rev a three liter engine beyond 7500 RPM to get a relaxed 1000-1200 hp...
I just read a little about the new Triumph motorcycle streamliner, which is looking to bump the outright two-wheeler record from 376 up to 400 MPH. It's 3 liter (a pair of massively destroked 2,300 Rocket-3 engines), turbocharged, and makes 1,000 HP (at above 9,000 RPM, don't remember exactly). With all of the resources of North American Triumph, Carpenter Engines, et.al., why can they not obtain a "relaxed 1,200 HP @ 7,500 RPM"? :-o
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 11:35:55 PM by Jack Gifford »
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