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Author Topic: Inline-four crankshaft  (Read 214050 times)

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Offline 1 fast evo 2

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2012, 10:21:31 AM »
I may have missed it but is there a reason you are building an engine from scratch instead of using an existing mass produced 4 cly?

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Offline tomsmith

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2012, 11:07:58 AM »
I'm a little late on this, but the early midgets (circa 1950) usually ran 91 cu in Offys (4 cylinder inline just like the big offys).  They really sounded nice - almost as good as my Ariel square 4.  A few midgets ran Drake motors, which were based on a Harley v-twin.  They were known as "Shakers" for a good reason.  The Drake evolved so it was not even remotely Harley.  For instance, they used a water cooled 1-piece cylinder and head, a crankcase carved from billet aluminum and big chrome moly rods.  Drake (for you kids out there) was part of Meyer & Drake, who designed and built the Offenhauser motors, which were in turn derived from the 1920's Miller (which was also 91 cu in in one incarnation due to Indy rules).  I don't know the displacement of the Drake, but it was lots bigger than 91 cu in thanks to the rules.  Anyone like to correct or help me with this?  My memory is going fast, so the details are long gone.
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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2012, 05:49:09 PM »
Tom,
There is a guy in Orange, Richard Denabiles, that has most of the old Drake/Harley stuff and he actually rebuilds them and they run (as opposed to guys that have lots of neat old stuff but just let it grow old and dusty in their garages) and he even rebuilds the midgets that they ran in. Richard is around 85 and a true inspiration when you meet him. I have attached a couple of pics of an engine that he is doing and a car also.

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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2012, 06:59:07 PM »
Now that's NICE:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2012, 07:14:49 PM »
Tom,
There is a guy in Orange, Richard Denabiles, that has most of the old Drake/Harley stuff and he actually rebuilds them and they run (as opposed to guys that have lots of neat old stuff but just let it grow old and dusty in their garages) and he even rebuilds the midgets that they ran in. Richard is around 85 and a true inspiration when you meet him. I have attached a couple of pics of an engine that he is doing and a car also.

Rex

Got one here too. Ken Izzard , from what he told me spent a few years in the Army during the 2nd world war so he'd have to be well into his eighties. He's just finished a midget replica, at home, by himself. Wonderful old bloke, he gave me some NOS heims that I used on my little tanker. His stories and photo's really are a sight to behold and I can see the fire burning in him brightly even though most would see him as burnt out. His son Geoff tracked me down via our build diary as Ken had built a hillclimb car using a bellytank which he ran for years. When I last spoke to him Ken said he was at a charity function at a since closed speedway years back and a clean cut guy after looking at their back-in-the-day cars said, looks pretty dangerous to me , aren't you blokes worried about getting killed in them.One of Ken's mates said " son, we spent three years in the jungle with other blokes with guns REALLY trying to kill us, this was just fun"

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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2012, 11:44:37 PM »
I may have missed it but is there a reason you are building an engine from scratch instead of using an existing mass produced 4 cly?...
No, you didn't miss it; I missed inclusion of the "why", so here it is:

I will have reached my goal if eventually some old-timer might look at my lakester and say "what year did Mickey do that?".

Mickey has been my hero for a very long time, even before I got seriously involved with stuff he designed (see my signature). When I first bought the engine-less lakester (great fifties-appearing, but modern inside), I thought about using my complete blown-alky V8 M/T hemi (which IS looking for a good home). But I've decided against the V8 for two reasons- 1) the V8 width would require significant chassis rework, and 2) I don't want to go that fast- the record in C/BFL is ~350 MPH. So I'll be building for F/BFL where the record is 260-something, which this car has already been safely (per GPS). I've started machining my spare hemi head and it's now undergoing further flowbench development at a renowned shop. I'll resurrect my extra (broken) aluminum 389 block (one of six that Mickey acquired from Harvey Aluminum) and use the un-cracked half of it to build a stand-up four cylinder.  [to be cont'd]
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 11:47:35 PM by Pontiac Jack »
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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2012, 12:01:22 AM »
[cont'd]
As with my V8, I'll need to build many pieces from scratch- blower manifold, exhaust system, front drives for fuel/oil pumps, etc. I'll also create much extra work by attempting to design/fabricate a DOHC setup (basic design is well along, but the "devil is in the details"). I've wrung-out the pushrod/rocker-arm deal about to its limit (reliably 9,000 RPM with the V8), and would like to be able to twist the lakester engine to around 10,000, which mandates OHC.

No, I don't expect to see this thing run soon. Even 2013 is sounding too optimistic. But I'm determined...
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2012, 07:22:50 AM »
[cont'd]
As with my V8, I'll need to build many pieces from scratch- blower manifold, exhaust system, front drives for fuel/oil pumps, etc. I'll also create much extra work by attempting to design/fabricate a DOHC setup (basic design is well along, but the "devil is in the details"). I've wrung-out the pushrod/rocker-arm deal about to its limit (reliably 9,000 RPM with the V8), and would like to be able to twist the lakester engine to around 10,000, which mandates OHC.

No, I don't expect to see this thing run soon. Even 2013 is sounding too optimistic. But I'm determined...
Man, go for it!! This is what makes this stuff fun!. After close to 20 years and a dozen trips to the salt with Cosworth Vega power I decided to go another direction. Wanted stay same class and a lot of folks said just "buy a Honda". Nah. Am sort of a Pontiac guy too. So here I am, cost about 4 times as much as "just buy a Honda" and I've got an engine that has managed to beat a few of them---- Just not (yet) all the ones I want to beat.  :-D :cheers: So out to the shop I go......
Jack Iliff
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Offline tomsmith

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2012, 09:55:14 AM »
Rex: thanks for the pictures of the Drake.  It looks just like the one we worked on in 1951 or 52 at Motorcycle Specialties (HD dealer) in South San Gabriel.  It was owned by a guy named "Schenley" Henley, since it was believed he drank a lot of whiskey.  I don't remember what we did to it, but it was in pieces and I never saw it put together.  We did get a set of connecting rods from Henley.

I always wanted to drive a midget or sprint car but never got a chance, and I would be more than crazy to try it now - I've used up 8.5 of my lives and just have half of one left.
139mph with no bike, but with speedo and helmet.

Offline 1 fast evo 2

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2012, 08:42:01 AM »
Well O.K. then that explains alot.
That's really a cool project!!
I hope it goes fast and I know you will have alot of fun getting there.
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My EVO 2 - 8.96@158 mph in the 1/4
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2012, 10:00:18 AM »
I would look at the Trailblazer 4.2L 6 or the Colorado 2.9L 4 cyl---DOHC, 4 valves per cyl, great crossflow heads and they can be SPUN would be easy to make look like an OFFY or a OHC from the 60s
All alum and there are folks making stupid power blown and un blown already
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Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2012, 03:57:11 PM »
[cont'd]
As with my V8, I'll need to build many pieces from scratch- blower manifold, exhaust system, front drives for fuel/oil pumps, etc. I'll also create much extra work by attempting to design/fabricate a DOHC setup (basic design is well along, but the "devil is in the details"). I've wrung-out the pushrod/rocker-arm deal about to its limit (reliably 9,000 RPM with the V8), and would like to be able to twist the lakester engine to around 10,000, which mandates OHC.

No, I don't expect to see this thing run soon. Even 2013 is sounding too optimistic. But I'm determined...

Oh man, have you got my interest, this sounds like an excellant project, Start a thread ASAP please?
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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2013, 11:32:27 PM »
I'm still plugging away at it. I just delivered the "junk" block to my TIG-welding friend today, after V'ing out all the cracks as he asked. DOHC setup is proceeding well- major remaining machining effort will be seven copies of the prototype cam-follower-finger that I'm finally happy with (using Isky EZ-Roll technology).

Regarding a crankshaft; anybody ever hear of a high-speed inline four cylinder using firing order 1-2-3-4? A zig-zag 180` crank is mandated (rather than center throws at 0` like most fours). I've only ever seen one example, a slow-speed tractor engine. I'd like to learn about both the inherent imbalance (no combustion) and the firing-induced imbalance considerations.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2013, 09:03:15 AM »
 :-o

the torsional inputs in the crank would be  :?  :-o
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Inline-four crankshaft
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2013, 12:29:33 PM »
Jack, sounds like you have you're work cut out for yourself! Cool project, but I think you might want to really consider getting away from the 1-2-3-4 firing order. JMHO
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