(Note: LANDRACING.COM donations are not tax deductible)


This is a public forum. The opinions expressed here don't
necessarily reflect the feelings of The Folks That Run The Site (that's us)
unless we explicitly say so, ok?


Author Topic: Fire suppression systems  (Read 899 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jack Gifford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1319
  • Age: 79
  • Location: Phelps, NY
Fire suppression systems
« on: September 02, 2019, 11:35:08 PM »
My lakester has two 10 pound systems (engine and cockpit) made by FireBottle Inc. They are both active and in perfect condition, but date back to 2007. I now see that they are "Foam wetting agent". I would dread trying to exit the cramped cockpit filled with slippery foam! I'd like to recharge the cockpit bottle with a Halon-type medium, but FireBottle won't recharge a bottle after six years. Anybody know a cost-effective approach? Do all manufacturers' bottles have a male 1 3/16" x 20 thread on the top? If so, I would talk to other companies about their recharge policies.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Online wheelrdealer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Age: 60
  • Location: St. Joseph, MI
  • D/CBGALT
    • WHEELRDEALER RACING
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 09:57:36 AM »
Jack:

I used to be a fire bottle dealer. I think the six year refill spec may be an SFI requirement not FIREBOLTLE's, see below. I don't know a company that will refill and certify a system that is not their own. BR

2.7 On Board Fire Suppression Systems shall be inspected for recertification at
least every two years after the date of original certification or as specified by
the certifying manufacturer. When a unit is determined to be acceptable for
continued service, a new conformance label marked with the inspection date
shall be used. In-field recertification is permitted, but ONLY by the original
manufacturer or its authorized agent. Mailing of certification labels to
customers is strictly prohibited. Systems shall have a maximum field service
life of 6 years from the original date of installation. At the end of the 6-year
period, all systems must be returned to the manufacturer or a certified
recycling service center for lawful disassembly, recycling and
SFI Specification 17.1 Page 3 Effective: April 20, 2018
decommissioning. No system may be refilled more than 6 times during its 6-
year field service life.
ECTA    Maxton D/CGALT  Record Holder 167.522
ECTA    Maxton D/CBGALT Record Holder 166.715

WWW.WHEELRDEALER2100.COM

Offline manta22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3490
  • Age: 81
  • Location: Tucson, AZ
  • What, me worry?
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2019, 10:23:02 AM »
What puzzles me is the requirement for re-certification of Halon systems- why is this necessary?
If the weight of the bottle and contents are within limits it should be OK. There is no internal corrosion, packing of powder, or pressure loss. What is it that limits a Halon system's ability to be re-filled after a certain date? I've read a study that reported many agencies (FAA, military, airlines, etc) are considering eliminating the required re-certification of Halon systems.

Can anyone explain this?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline ronnieroadster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 752
  • Location: Connecticut
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 12:05:07 PM »
What puzzles me is the requirement for re-certification of Halon systems- why is this necessary?
If the weight of the bottle and contents are within limits it should be OK. There is no internal corrosion, packing of powder, or pressure loss. What is it that limits a Halon system's ability to be re-filled after a certain date? I've read a study that reported many agencies (FAA, military, airlines, etc) are considering eliminating the required re-certification of Halon systems.

Can anyone explain this?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ




           A field service life of 6 years how is that possible? 
   I wonder could it be were trapped in a market where the manufactures will make more sales if a perfect system though older is still fine but deemed in need of rectification with no logical proof as to why.
       Im sure the SFI will be happy to explain maybe why after 6 years the system is now considered junk!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 12:09:56 PM by ronnieroadster »
Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ever Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH burning gasoline July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Hat
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"

Online wheelrdealer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1155
  • Age: 60
  • Location: St. Joseph, MI
  • D/CBGALT
    • WHEELRDEALER RACING
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 12:52:53 PM »
Well let's see, the Manufacturer applies and meets SFI requirements. Then SFI issues SFI labels at a fee to the Manufacturer. So SFI is selling labels as a revenue stream for new Certs or Re-Cert.

Now don't get me wrong, SFI has done a lot to make everything we do safer and I am thankful there are there...but you can figure out the logic. Years ago we bought software... now we lease it. Re-Occurring revenue stream is the name of  that game.

The other thing I learned is buy your new SFI equipment dated in Sept or Oct. Versus say July. Then you should get one more speedweek or WOS out of it before its required to be re-certified or replaced. Then you have all winter to send them back to the Manufacturer.



BR
ECTA    Maxton D/CGALT  Record Holder 167.522
ECTA    Maxton D/CBGALT Record Holder 166.715

WWW.WHEELRDEALER2100.COM

Offline Joe Timney

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 507
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Stuart, Florida
    • Delaware Chassis Works
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 12:26:08 AM »
The six year rule is about hydrostat testing rule under the Feds DOT requirement. Some manufacturers will retest the bottles.
Joe Timney
Retired President of ECTA
President of Delaware Chassis Works
www.delawarechassisworks.com

Offline Joe Timney

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 507
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Stuart, Florida
    • Delaware Chassis Works
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 12:29:54 AM »
Jack, give me a call at the shop at 772.210.2713.
Joe Timney
Retired President of ECTA
President of Delaware Chassis Works
www.delawarechassisworks.com

Offline Jack Gifford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1319
  • Age: 79
  • Location: Phelps, NY
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2019, 12:52:19 AM »
Thanks for the comments.
Joe- I'll be calling you.
The thread on the bottle might also be described as 30 x 1.25 mm. Only about 5 threads protrude, so i can't tell which thread pitch gauge is a closer fit- 20 tpi or 1.25 mm. Anybody know what thread size is used on some other manufacturers' bottles?
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline Jack Gifford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1319
  • Age: 79
  • Location: Phelps, NY
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 12:10:50 AM »
Correction- my systems are from FireFox, not FireBottle. :oops:
I'm awaiting word from FireFox as to whether they can refill my bottles with Halon-like agent.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline Jack Gifford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1319
  • Age: 79
  • Location: Phelps, NY
Re: Fire suppression systems
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 11:32:33 PM »
Yes, FireFox will refill my bottles with FE-36, without regard to original date on the bottles. for a reasonable price. Another item to take care of this winter.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)