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Author Topic: Sidecars  (Read 36967 times)

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Offline 1212FBGS

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Sidecars
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2006, 11:30:07 AM »
norton
what speed rating did they give ya on the hack tire?

jprovo

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Sidecars
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2006, 01:28:02 PM »
Bob, You've got one heck of a Wife to trust you enough to ride in the sidehack at that Speed!! The elmo the mannequin story is a hoot too!

I thought the motorcycle guys (myself included) are a little crazy, some of that stuff is just insane!

jprovo

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Sidecars
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2006, 01:39:00 PM »
I need to get myself rulebook. The FIM sidecar rules look a lot more specific for sidecars. Platform size, minimum windshield height, grab bar requirements, etc...

The DRLA rules are wide open "Sidecar: The operator must demonstrate that he can be accommodated aboard the sidecar to verify it can be safety ridden and to guarantee a minimum size."
Is the SCTA rule similar? it does seem pretty wide open to me.

Offline JackD

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YES AND NO
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2006, 01:53:16 PM »
The SCTA rule did read much the same as the DLRA reads and that established the vehicle with some qualification as a sidecar. It was not just a tag wheel on what would otherwise be a bike.
The FIM rules you are reading apply to road racing sidecars that even have some differences but all really run and feature a monkey.
A pure speed record chair has evolved into something quite different and only counts as a sidecar if you hold your tongue in your cheek just right.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Nortonist 592

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Sidecars
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2006, 09:00:54 PM »
1212FBGS,  They never gave me a speed rating for the tire.  Bridgestone don't put speed ratings on their kart tires.  I got as much info as I could in regards to the application of the tire.  I.E. what classes it is used in.  Its a spec tire for a class where the minimum weight is 360 lbs. with driver, 125 shifter class.  These are classes where the top speed is over 100.  I pointed out that at El Mirage the tire won't be subjected to braking, turning loads etc.  After a long discussion they said it was ok.  Better than the wheelbarrow tire on a certain streamliner.  I think the FIM have banned passengers for years now.  In the LSR context that is.  The SCTA rules state you must have a platform capable of holding a passenger.  Minimum dimensions 12" X 32".  The rule change for this year states that the platform must be in the correct orientation to the bike.  I never did like the wheel on a stick sidecars.  I'm building it to the rules.  I'm not one to show up and present the bike to the inspector hoping he does'nt spot whatever I may be trying to hide.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

bak189

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Sidecars
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2006, 09:54:25 AM »
Hey Norton Guy......Wrong......
FIM does allow for a passenger in the sidecar for LSR.....the rules state either a passenger or 60 kilo
of ballast.
If I were you I would change out that go-kart tire for a Goodyear 5 inch front runner.....the kart tire has no speed rating, the Goodyear does.  For the live of me I do not understand SCTA thinking .....it is noted in the rule book regarding
speed-ratings on tires, why bother to print it if they don't go by their own rules. Good luck with your new sidecar and welcome to the club!

Offline Nortonist 592

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Sidecars
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2006, 03:21:18 PM »
Blessed are the ignorant for they shall build sidecars.  I did'nt know or think that the FIM still allowed passengers.  The last passenger I saw was Tommy Ivo stretched out on Maurice Brierly's outfit at, I believe, Elvington in England in the early 60s.  As to the tire.  I think logic actually prevailed for once.  A tire designed for 100+ mph, for hard cornering, braking etc. should be more than ample for a, hopefully, 100+ mph sidecar at El Mirage.  In the 80s I had a kart with a 650 Yamaha in it.  We played with it at El Mirage.  Sliding it sprint car style and just plain wringing its neck down the lakebed.  We never had tire problems.  Should I find a 5" Goodyear I will certainly use it.  My own feelings on the tire issue is that a lot has been made out of nothing.  If you wander over and have a look at most of the car tires they tend to ancient cracked all over LSR tires.  If most of the cars I've looked at at El Mirage were to show up at the motorcycle tech there would be cardiac arrests all round.  Or to put it another way,  ask any car guy how old his tires are and see how loud he laughs.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline JackD

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Tires and failures
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2006, 05:35:46 PM »
A tire without a power, braking , weight, or turning load can spin much faster.
 That is 1 of the reasons a free spin test is not valid.
Failures begin with the heat generated by the transmission of loads through the tire and start with the heat failure that causes the tread to pull away from the casing. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Nortonist 592

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Sidecars
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2006, 07:18:22 PM »
Should I go fast enough to spin the tire beyond its limits and cause it to blow I will be the happiest person in the world.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline Salty Blaster

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Sidecars
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2006, 08:41:02 PM »
Maybe out of this world! :D  :D  :D   Just dark humor. Good Luck! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Go faster, just don't eat the salt!

Offline JackD

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SPEED SECRET ?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2006, 08:53:02 PM »
Trim the sidecar wheel so that it is off the ground when under way , presents the least area to the wind and you can go faster. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Nortonist 592

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Sidecars
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2006, 09:45:11 PM »
You must be a mind reader.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline JackD

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Try anything !
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2006, 10:32:24 PM »
Do not shroud the front wheel. It needs to be in turbulent air to work, otherwise it will work as a front rudder. You can get away with it with 3 wheels on the ground to a certain extent but it will make 2 wheeler hunt.
Take high pressure from the top of the front tire and below the fender and force it into the path of the dirt off the bottom of the tire. Force the dirt under the vehicle and not in your face. If the bottom is not closed up, now would be a good time.
Undampned frame flex will be a large part of the problems you might have and the more rake you have the more rigid the frame must be in torsion. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Nortonist 592

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Sidecars
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2006, 01:12:41 AM »
I've no plans to shroud the front wheel.  I figure I'm going to suck dust no matter what I do.  It has a full belly pan.  My butt is too close to the ground not to have a bit extra in that area.  As to frame flex.  I'm no engineer so it remains to be seen.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline JackD

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Da best way and cheap
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2006, 06:40:54 AM »
If you want to test your ability to ride it, start by coasting it down a hill.
If you want to see what the dust is going to do, run it through a puddle of water and see what gets wet.
 Control the water and the dust will take care of it's self.
 If you don't like the taste of the lake bed, a dust mask is not a sissy deal at all and they leave a really clean spot on your face that is great in pictures.
An engineer has the advantage of being able to try stuff without all the complication presented by the fact that it has never been done before or can take credit for a reinvention.
You might surprise yourself. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"