Author Topic: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero  (Read 11857 times)

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Offline bak189

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 10:41:14 AM »
Using ATF in the primary chain case works just fine....it works great with a wet clutch....we used that type of oil in our Vintage dirt track bikes (BSA, TRI, NORTON, HARLEY)....workes even better when using a Barnett clutch...........
Also works in the trans. of the above noted bikes.......................................
Use the grease in the wheel bearings that the bicycle racers use..................
If possible change the size`of the rear sprockets....larger Dia....less chain
"wrap around"
In over 35 years of racing solo bikes and sidecars at LSR events......Used nothing more then WD-40 on the rear chain.......have had no chain problems
Question authority.....always

Offline bearingburner

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 05:28:20 PM »
I owner a 1978 Chrysler  Le Baron with a 4 speed manual transmission and the recomended transmission oil was ATF

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 03:02:14 PM »
On my Triumph Cub I changed my duplex primary chain to a single and run ATF at only 1/2 of the recommended amount of oil. No problems but I made sure my clutch plates were lubed on assembly.  I run DID 420 drive chain that was cleaned and then sprayed with WD40.  Tranny oil is ATF and only half-full. Motor oil is 10-40 synthetic at only 1-qt. capacity. I run Honda 21-inch dual-sport wheels with original bearings but looking for advice about shaving the tires....old school Avon on front and modern HD front on rear.

After tech teardown we put a plastic bag over the open motor and used a large rubber band to secure it around the barrel. We had the tranny in 4th to rotate the crank to measure the displacement. When we started to push the bike back to the pits, Drew noticed the bag was "puffing".  The bike rolled so easily in gear that may builder, Dave, was amazed.  And yes..........both wheels will spin on the bench for 8 or more minutes.

We have a home-made ignition running off of the cam...........plan to change that to run off the crank.  At the dyno end of the crank we mounted a thin aluminum rotor with a degree-wheel decal on center. I don't know if it helps to balance the motor..........but it sure is smooth!

Thanks to all for posting this helpful info.............Dennis in Wisconsin
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 05:19:27 PM »
Another "parasite" that has not been mentioned is brake drag. Both drum and disc brakes can and will drag. Making sure that the pads are back away from the disc or that the shoes are well away from the drum can make a noticeable difference in speed and if you are looking for that last mph to break a record it may be worth it.

Rex
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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2011, 07:59:39 PM »
Dennis,
I believe your transmission is virtually identical to the B50.  Does your rear wheel spin for 8 minutes with the chain installed?  If so, I like to know how you did!
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2011, 10:57:50 PM »
No chain for the test spin.....................I need to take Wobbly's advice about cleaning and oiling the chain after you run on the salt............With only WD40 for lube the chain rusted so badly in a few days that it is now recycled.
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2011, 06:51:56 AM »
Thanks, Dennis, for that bit of info.  I tried rotating my back wheel with the chain installed and got 5 seconds of rotation!  The 428 chain is a good idea and with new chain technology it will probably handle a lot of horsepower, especially when used with largest sprockets possible.

Rex,
Your point about the brakes is important.  I'm using a Honda rear wheel and it is easy to get zero drag, unless you forget to adjust it after installing a smaller rear sprocket which moves the rear wheel back.  Disc brakes do not have sprung retract mechanism, so I've heard you should use a very small screwdriver to ensure the pads are backed off before each run.

Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2011, 07:51:13 AM »
WD40 isn't a particularly good lubricant and besides which it attracts or combines with water which is why it works to fix a wet ignition. I'd be more tempted to try a variety of light lubricants which may offer better results and will help prevent the corrosion caused by the salt rather than encouraging it.

There, that should cause some controversy! :evil: :evil: :evil:

I'd be very tempted to experiment with what I've just said before rejecting it out of hand. :-D

Pete

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 08:13:07 AM »
WD40 isn't a particularly good lubricant and besides which it attracts or combines with water which is why it works to fix a wet ignition. I'd be more tempted to try a variety of light lubricants which may offer better results and will help prevent the corrosion caused by the salt rather than encouraging it.

There, that should cause some controversy! :evil: :evil: :evil:



Pete

What has the world come to?  Next thing you know, he'll be dissing duct tape.   :lol:
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 08:15:48 AM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 08:15:24 AM »
The good American made duct tape is the only kind. Watch out for foreign imitations.

Don't you be causing trouble MM. :-D :-D :-D

Pete
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 09:19:00 AM by Peter Jack »

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2011, 08:57:18 AM »
Being that these runs are fairly short, had anyone experimented with a dry lubricant, like graphite?

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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Online WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 09:45:25 AM »
Chains don't stretch - they wear! A new chain has variation just from the tolerances on all the pins, links and holes. All the little high and dry spots accumulate their wear and you have your "stretch'! The pins have high pressure contact and the chordal action of the links around the smaller counter shaft sprocket is very ugly motion. Think about the geometry, change of direction and accel/decel involved. Chains are amazing that they last at all when you start pumping HP into them and make them turn sharp corners!  :cheers:

You have to do your test rotation with a repeatable applied load not by hand spinning. Attach a weight on a small peg taped to the tire so the weight falls off at the same point each time. Average at least 3X!

No o-rings, Dri-Slide (moly-based) to penetrate inside all the clearances - first time let the carrier fluid evaporate overnight - clean, blow dry and re-lube after each run at B'ville! I first bought Dri-Slide when the guy was selling it out of the trunk of his car! It would free up clutch and brake cables that were rusted fast!  :-o

Works very well in your weapons, too!  :-D
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 10:40:46 AM »
+1 to Woody...............I have been using Dupont Teflon Dry Wax spray for several years with good success. I also use Graphite spray from my gun case on cables.  The WD40 got on my chain because my crew grabbed what they thought was best while I was at the rider's meeting.  I tend to use WD40 just before I wash my bikes as it seems to help remove collective oil film.

Speaking of slippery lubricants.........Pam spray on a clean frame and inner fender sure helps to remove salt...........do not put it on the motor or exhaust as it is causes excessive smoke...........the lady with the exotic electric streamliner put it on her front disks and had to exit her start because of smoke in the cockpit!

Regarding the weighted wheel spin..........I'll give it a try.
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 11:32:43 AM »
......the lady with the exotic electric streamliner put it on her front disks and had to exit her start because of smoke in the cockpit!


I guess when you're hot, you're hot!
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Resistance Forces Other Than Aero
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 09:48:04 PM »
The WD-40 was developed by my father's cousin's husband.  Our family had some familiarity with the product.  The WD stands for Water Dispersant and it took 40 tries to get the product developed, hence the 40 in the name.

My father always used a quality lubricant made for the purpose such as Hoppe's oil for a shotgun or Lubriplate grease for a fishing reel.  The WD-40 would be used if the item got wet and its purpose was to displace the water to keep it from rusting.  The item was dried, cleaned, and regreased or reoiled as soon as practical.  WD-40 was not developed to be a great or long term lubricant, it is an OK lube whose primary purpose is to displace moisture, I was told.

That is all I know and my father is no longer here.  The last time I used the stuff was 30 years ago.  There are some teflon and silicon water dispersant sprays that work better.