Author Topic: Classing a Chevrolet SSR  (Read 18698 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline javajoe79

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 618
Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« on: November 03, 2011, 02:23:29 PM »
 
  So as some of you may know, this year at speedweek there was a Chevrolet SSR that showed up to run in C/MMP. From what I have been told and heard while we where there, they only allowed them to run for time only. I also understand it was because they had a modified front valance on the vehicle.

  Now to me an SSR does not really fit in MMP. Kind of how an el camino doesn't either. I understand that the El Camino does not class as a pickup because the bed does not separate from the frame/cab. The bed on the SSR is also part of the rest of the body so it should also not be allowed in MMP or MP. Following that logic then, an SSR should wind up in GT or Mod Sports since it has two seats. At the same time though, smaller pickups like VW rabbit based pickups are allowed to run as trucks, so????

  Any insight into the official stance on this subject would be great as well as opinions or reasoning as to why an SSR should or should not run as a truck.
Coffey Fabrication and Race Prep
313 Wilhagan Rd Nashville, TN 37217
615-210-1605

https://www.facebook.com/CoffeyFabrication

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2011, 02:34:24 PM »
No answers, but some thoughts.

I could see where the El Camino and Ranchero would be disallowed, and not because of the fact that the bed is part of the body - it was based upon a car would be the reason.  I believe the 1959 Ford F-100 also incorporated the bed into the cab, yet it's clearly a pickup, to my mind.

But the SSR was, from design through production, intended to be a pickup truck.

I can't speak to the valance, but it sounds to me that they may have got this wrong for 'em.

I've got a bit of an interest in this small pickup question - I'm sitting with a 1 liter AH engine in the Midget, and thinking down the road a ways, a Morris Minor Pickup might make a good home for it.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Tman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3672
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2011, 03:03:07 PM »
We ran a 62 Ford Unibody in D/PP this year, yes bed and body one piece. The Elco/Ranchero vs Rabbit/Rampage deal confuses me. No consistancy in the classes. Somebody enlighten me :?

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2011, 03:15:31 PM »
Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are dead.
Aldous Huxley

 :evil:

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline JamesJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2011, 03:56:29 PM »
I just think that if the title says "truck" then it's a truck, what does the manufacture class it into? Truck, then that's what it is.

Offline jimmy six

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2785
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 05:12:57 PM »
I think when the organization allowed car based vehicles to run in pickup (Rabbit-Rampage) they infact changed the long standing tradition AND rulebook ruling that car based pickups were not allowed in the car classes. I don't know why this was done or at least I don't remember but it should continue thru out all of them or go back to the real intent or specifically what was and is written in the book.

The other part of this is what DMV's classify these vehicles and that could be different from state to state. In California all of them including SSR's are commercial vehicles; even the HHR with no windows is one. Commercial may not mean truck, but you definately pay more for your licensing and a weight fee. I had a 53 Ford Courier Sedan Delivery once and it was a truck to the State of Ca.

I believe it should be settled one way or the other but not both. If El Camino and Ranchero are allowed to run in the pickup class I see the demise of the real pickup ...Good Luck
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline Tman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3672
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 05:15:56 PM »
I believe it should be settled one way or the other but not both. If El Camino and Ranchero are allowed to run in the pickup class I see the demise of the real pickup ...Good Luck

Great points, your last one really makes sense :-o

Offline NathanStewart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 05:09:19 PM »
From what I have been told and heard while we where there, they only allowed them to run for time only.

When I inspected the truck the owner told me that they got the okay to run the "truck" as a truck from the Truck Committee Chair.

Quote
I also understand it was because they had a modified front valance on the vehicle.

This is possible but they are allowed to run a front air dam in MMP.

Quote
I understand that the El Camino does not class as a pickup because the bed does not separate from the frame/cab.

I could very well be wrong but I don't think this is true.  It's not a matter of the cab being separated from the bed but whether or not the "truck" is based on a car.  The front end of an El Camino or Ranchero is basically a car and that's why they run in the car classes.

Quote
At the same time though, smaller pickups like VW rabbit based pickups are allowed to run as trucks, so????

And this is where things get screwy.  The SSR is not unibody and is not based on a car (technically).  The SSR uses the same chassis as a Chevy Trail Blazer which is an SUV which in my eyes is more truck-ish than car-ish.  The VW Rabbit truck and others are cleary based on cars.  The front end of a VW truck is a Rabbit which is a car.

Quote
Any insight into the official stance on this subject would be great as well as opinions or reasoning as to why an SSR should or should not run as a truck.

I'd say that the official stance is what is being allowed now but what's allowed now may not be allowed later.  Case in point, one of the truck committee members submitted a rule change request to creat a "Sport Truck" class so these hybrid car-truck things can compete against each other.  We didn't even talk about it at the rules meeting because we can only submit for new classes on even years so it'll probably come up again next year.

IMO, it's pretty simple.  Car based "trucks" should run as cars like the El Caminos and Rancheros already do and truck or SUV based trucks should run as trucks, bed attached or not.
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

LittleLiner

  • Guest
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 06:54:58 PM »
. . .
I've got a bit of an interest in this small pickup question - I'm sitting with a 1 liter AH engine in the Midget, and thinking down the road a ways, a Morris Minor Pickup might make a good home for it.
Morris Minor Pickup production ended in 71.  The Mid/Mini truck classes are restrictred to 1972 or newer vehicles.

Offline javajoe79

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 618
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 12:14:31 PM »
Thanks for all the insight.

 Nathan they ran a very small air dam or lip under the bumper which I think would be fine but I understand that some modifications had been made to the shape of the lower part of the bumper, which would be illegal. 

  The idea of a sport truck class sounds good too but what else would run in that class?
Coffey Fabrication and Race Prep
313 Wilhagan Rd Nashville, TN 37217
615-210-1605

https://www.facebook.com/CoffeyFabrication

Offline LSR Mike

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 538
  • First Pass-June 25, 2000; Muroc Dry Lake
    • Mike & Paula's Site
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 03:30:16 PM »
Hmmm. Interesting discussion. So the thinking is a VW Truck is a car? like the Elky's and Ranchero's? because of the Front end?

There is such a vehicle pictured in the Rulebook (Section 5.D.6) for the BMMP Class, also a longtime record holder.
The Book also says MMP is considered to be in the Modified Category, Gas Coupe Class same as Elky's and Rancheros(Section 5.D). Or the Elky and Ranchero can compete in the Classic Class (Section 5.C)

what was the question?



« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 03:51:21 PM by LSR Mike »
Mike M.
BNI/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder/Former Bonneville Record Holder

Offline Steve Walters

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 12:15:06 PM »
It's a very complex issue, the El Camino's and Ranchero's, were basically cars with car running gears, mostly all the same options.  It was hard for them to get traction to the road for drag racing purposes, but would run with them on the top end.  Then along comes the mini trucks that one year ended up being the fastest production car, or truck? Then comes the SSR cute, fast, basically a Corvette with a 52 Chevy front design and a large trunk area.  I'm sure that the greatest gear heads on earth can come up with a reasonable and logical solution.   :|

Steve

 
I've been from Bone to Blackfoot, but still just a Newbie here.

Wa's Bad Banana
B/CGALT

Offline Tman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3672
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2011, 12:39:31 PM »
All I know is it will be fun to watch this one play out.

Offline bucketlist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2011, 03:01:23 PM »
I just think that if the title says "truck" then it's a truck, what does the manufacture class it into? Truck, then that's what it is.

Don't go by manufacturer's designation. They class a vehicle for reasons other than logic or common sense, like import duty considerations. The Subaru Brat was imported with seats mounted in the open pickup bed to get a more favorable duty class. Or for marketing purposes - for a long time now nobody would be caught dead driving a station wagon, so they've been calling them suv's and crossovers and whatever else they can think of to avoid the stigma.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5879
Re: Classing a Chevrolet SSR
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2011, 04:44:34 PM »
I believe the Brat was circumventing a tariff on imported pickups at the time -- about 25%(?).
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records