Engine Cases M vs A How about This

[JackD]

...With no person listed on the bike committee that has ever prepared an entry, I can understand the dilemma....

Jack,

Are saying that Tom Evans, Scott Guthrie and others listed on the committee have never preped and raced a bike at the salt?

DW

I guess you would have to ask them and others about their participation and look at the published listings.

[firemanjim]

Dan and John,what I was hoping for was a simple answer to our question in a public forum where a large group of racers are represented so we don't each have to try and get the same question answered.Seemed like an effective time saving way.
And I have tried in the past to call and e-mail about my questions with limited success.Sent the same e-mail for weeks without answer on one such question.
You guys are active participants here and could easily reach a large number of racers with answers  here but instead direct us(sometimes with a bit of a slap) to try avenues that  do not seem as beneficial to us and have failed us in the past.
With the amount of time spent typing all of your posts,Dan and John, you could have answered the question several times over.Sorta counter-productive.

[JohnR]

Dan and John,....Dan and John, you could have answered the question several times over.Sorta counter-productive.

I am assuming I am the John you are referring to.

There are two reasons why I did not answer your question directly and referred you to the M/C chair at SCTA.

1. I dont know the answer.
2. When in doubt, I email or call someone who knows and whose opinion carries weight (i.e. a car inspector and/or chair).

Those two things have served me very well in my short time here. I did not direct you to email Russ as a put off. I have just seen this question spin around in circles for the last 45 days on the forum with no resolution. Lots of posts and stuff but no resolution. So rather than waiting for a person to come to you and holding up building your bike, I simply asked if you had attempted to contact them. Seemed reasonable enuf to me. How is getting a rule clarification from the people that will be interperting and enforcing it counter-productive? It seems to me to be the only productive thing to be done!

[dwarner]

I certaintly didn't mean to offend anyone. I, like John, don't know the answer to your question so pointing you to a seemingly logical point to get an answer was what I tried to do.

Jack D spun me up with the remark that no one on the listed motorcycle committee has prepped or raced a bike at Bonneville sat a little uneasy with me.

I'll bow out of the motorcycle questions.

DW

[landracing]

Dan don't stop, you are doing fine.

I have no vested interest in HD stuff but I have emailed Russ at the email provided and this is what I have put into the email.

"Russ or Chair,

I have a motorcycle question pertaining the HD and the M class.

Can we run aftermarket cases ie. S&S cases and still run the in M class bikes..

Since most of the M class records that are fast were set with S&S Cases in the past.

How does this rule effect this years running of HD motorcycle with aftermarket S&S cases.

Jon Amo
http://www.landracing.com"

It may not be the best questions but it will be a start and we will see how long it takes to get a response and ill post the response here when I get a return email on it.

Jon

[1212FBGS]

hey Dan
I think Jack was talking about the current bike board.  Russ is a great guy, works hard, and means well for the bike side of things he even works for corporate Honda and because he has not entered a bike at an scta event, some people dont consider him a biker. all of the other bike board members are car guys! ?
There was a pretty heated debate between Mangelli and Tom (our last bike guy) at the last scta meeting, tom feels he was kicked off amd Mike said as far as he was concerned Tom still had all of his previous powers altho he is not listed as a board member. Alot of bike racers feel they wont be represented by bikers. I dont give a crap, I just whine and bitch like the rest of em. I am on some kinda advisory thing and  I do put in my 2 cents! Dont know how much weight that carries when the car boys make decisions for us. guess well have to lift up our skirts, grab our sacks and deal with it. I'll give this new admistratiion a chance and see what happens hopefully they can do good, they have the car side of the rules pretty dialed in. if not we can replace them next election
Kent

[Dynoroom]

I'll give this new admistratiion a chance and see what happens hopefully they can do good, they have the car side of the rules pretty dialed in. if not we can replace them next election
Kent

That only works if someone steps up to be voted for. Not many want the job!

[JackD]

As recently as December, Russ wanted all the feedback from the selected bunch to be returned to his E-mail at Honda. It had to be returned before the joint closed for the holidays because he did not have access from home.
Does anybody really believe he doesn't follow this forum, even after the answer he gave to the backwards tank rule and tried to lay it off on AMA ?
While we have not seen him here since, can he see this?

[Buell Dyno Guy]

25 post ago I, as a newbie asked a simple question about a new rule. To date no one has bothered to say "Hi Welcome to landracing.com" or answer my question. I am not too sure who is who and at this point don't think I care. It just seems like another forum for some to complain and the others to flex their power. The cases on my bike are stock so it's not an issue and as the tuner for Fireman Jim, I hope that S&S cases can stay in the "M" class. ... I just wanted to say hi and suggest a possible alternative to a rule. ... Didn't mean to offend. ... Terry

[JackD]

I certaintly didn't mean to offend anyone. I, like John, don't know the answer to your question so pointing you to a seemingly logical point to get an answer was what I tried to do.

Jack D spun me up with the remark that no one on the listed motorcycle committee has prepped or raced a bike at Bonneville sat a little uneasy with me.

I'll bow out of the motorcycle questions.

DW

I am reminded that 2 of the five elected board members were excluded by the other three when consideration was given to the balance of the board that was appointed by the other three.
Who wants to work with that and what chance is there ?
The out front format is really starting to make some uncomfortable.
Should it ?

[Sumner]

25 post ago I, as a newbie asked a simple question about a new rule. To date no one has bothered to say "Hi Welcome to landracing.com" or answer my question. I am not too sure who is who and at this point don't think I care. It just seems like another forum for some to complain and the others to flex their power. The cases on my bike are stock so it's not an issue and as the tuner for Fireman Jim, I hope that S&S cases can stay in the "M" class. ... I just wanted to say hi and suggest a possible alternative to a rule. ... Didn't mean to offend. ... Terry

Terry hope you hang around.  Guess you can see you brought up a hot button topic and the guys forgot their manners .

Welcome and sorry I don't have an answer since I'm a car guy with a bike motor and this is all greek to me .

Good luck with the motor down under,

Sum

[Nortonist 592]

The rule change states that the engine and frame manufacturer must the same.  If not you run in A [special construction].  I have a Weslake engine in my Norton so I go from M to A even though my Norton frame is just as it left Bracebridge St. 46 years ago.  I run at El Mirage so it does'nt affect me as the two classes are combined there.  But the guys that have big bucks invested in S&S motors etc. are hit pretty hard.  I spoke to Tom Evans at El Mirage in Nov. when he showed me a rough draft of the rule changes.  I told I thought the engine change rule sucked and I still think the same way.  I'd like to see that rule applied to the roadster classes.  If it was there would be a lynch mob organized in the blink of a eye.

[JackD]

There are at least 3 OEMs that use S S kit motors that are legal for production now with production of over 10,000 each  and a whole list of those that exceed the 500 required.
It sounds like the rule came from the rare air of the ADMINISPHERE as the answer to a problem that did not exist.
Is the design failing or it it failing by design ?
 

[Nortonist 592]

As you say S&S have produced thousands of motors.  Does that make them legal to use in a Harley frame?  Where is the line that S&S crosses and becomes a Harley motor?  Which begs another question.  If I buy a Big Bear chopper can I run it in production?

[1212FBGS]

yep