Author Topic: tires??  (Read 6618 times)

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Offline russ jensen

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tires??
« on: February 20, 2006, 11:05:33 PM »
:shock: Tires been bothering me. al wheels would be easy but I guess carbides would be frowned upon. cutting  tread into al would probabley grind right off. would winding a tread of carbon thread & urethane have any hope? fda flex urethane has temp range -40 to +180 @ 60a= 1400 lb tensil and @78a=4580  Solid urethane is9000 lb @85-90D maybe this 180 would kill it???or viton strip or "o" ring cord stock wound around for tread. 1500 lb@75a temp=400 w/ viton adhesive =450deg F. kalrez will go to 600 F but is super expensive. such a setup wouldn't be a flexable as an air tire but couldn't go flat .if tread come unwound it should make a real cool sound. what say you out there?????
speed is expensive-how fast do you want to go?-to soon old & to late smart.

Offline Sumner

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Re: tires??
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2006, 11:31:27 PM »
Quote from: russ jensen
:shock: Tires been bothering me. al wheels would be easy but I guess carbides would be frowned upon. cutting  tread into al would probabley grind right off. would winding a tread of carbon thread & urethane have any hope? fda flex urethane has temp range -40 to +180 @ 60a= 1400 lb tensil and @78a=4580  Solid urethane is9000 lb @85-90D maybe this 180 would kill it???or viton strip or "o" ring cord stock wound around for tread. 1500 lb@75a temp=400 w/ viton adhesive =450deg F. kalrez will go to 600 F but is super expensive. such a setup wouldn't be a flexable as an air tire but couldn't go flat .if tread come unwound it should make a real cool sound. what say you out there?????


I guess I forgot  :?  what are you going to put these wheels/tires on :?:  :?: .

c ya, Sum

Offline russ jensen

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tires
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2006, 12:30:36 AM »
:lol: bgmr
speed is expensive-how fast do you want to go?-to soon old & to late smart.

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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tires??
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2006, 01:19:45 AM »
Quote
if tread come unwound it should make a real cool sound.


I doubt if the sound would be heard over the screams of the driver.

It would be nice if you could just run down to the local tire dealer and buy LSR tires for a couple of bucks, but it doesn't work that way.

LSR tires are expensive and scarce.

The BGMR record at Bonneville is 238.

From the SCTA rule book:
Quote
2.F Tires:
In excess of 200 MPH: Special tires for racing as designated by the manufacturer. . .  The use of any non-rated tire(s) . . . must be submitted for approval to the contest board in writing 45 days prior to the event.


So ok, you want to roll your own. You need to come up with a combination that will withstand the speed, the weight of the vehicle, provide adequate traction, and be perfectly safe.

Whatever the combination you pick from your list, you can't just ask somebody else if they think it will work. You have to do the engineering, build prototypes, build a test rig, test at least 20% faster than you are going to run at 100% over the rated load, and then take all of that to the SCTA and get their approval.

I doubt if they would accept anything else.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
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It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Dr Goggles

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RE: Tyre(ing) types
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2006, 06:00:33 AM »
Does anyone have any info on what if any success the GM/So-Cal Eco-tec  "thingy" had with those red urethane looking solid split tyred  wheel combo's or were they "display purposes only"......Also any thoughts on the split tyre idea itself 'cause I've been in a few arguments about them things.......
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

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Offline Rick Byrnes

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tires??
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2006, 11:41:31 AM »
Goodyear LSR tires are available in almost all sizes, at least according to my local GY race shop after they checked with Akron....
Not cheap, but a good value for the load and speeds we all go....

Rick
Rick

Offline Sumner

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Re: RE: Tyre(ing) types
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2006, 01:20:33 PM »
Quote from: Dr Goggles
Does anyone have any info on what if any success the GM/So-Cal Eco-tec  "thingy" had with those red urethane looking solid split tyred  wheel combo's or were they "display purposes only"......Also any thoughts on the split tyre idea itself 'cause I've been in a few arguments about them things.......


I'm not positive, but I think those $70,000 or what ever they cost wheels/tires were not used in their runs.

Russ like has been mentioned Goodyear has tires you can use.  Go to the 6th page on ( THIS LINK ).

I also have a link on my  PAGE THAT SHOWS THE PARTS I'VE USED .

If you are going to build I would strongly think about buying tires as soon as possible.  A year ago when Goodyear was moving their production plant from South America to the states tires were not available for a while.  I bought mine worrying they might not resume construction.  Yesterday after your post I checked the links on my site to Goodyear and saw they no longer worked as they changed the site around.  Looking under the racing tires on the new site I couldn't find Land Speed tires.  I called the distributor in Oak City where I got mine and he said they still had them.  I went back on the site and found them under the drag tires along with the Drag Front Runners.  Looks like they will still be making them, but in today's world these companies can change their mind at a moments notice.  When I have the funds I think I'll buy a spare for the future.  I don't think there will be a problem with the Drag Front Runners being around, but with the limited sales for Land Speed Tires and the small market and larger liability you never know when a "bean counter" will say these have to go.  It doesn't look like anyone else is stepping into the market either.

c ya, Sum

Offline Sumner

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tires??
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2006, 01:51:18 PM »
Quote from: Rick Byrnes
Goodyear LSR tires are available in almost all sizes, at least according to my local GY race shop after they checked with Akron....
Not cheap, but a good value for the load and speeds we all go....

Rick


Nice car Rick :D   If you don't mind I have to ask about the 4 wheel/tire arrangement in the front.  Is that a load related issue?  Or to get the frontal area down?  Or do you just like to make things more complicated, like I do 8) .

When I use to go to Mexico in the 70's I use to ride the buses down there and some of the large ones had 4 wheel/tires in the front like your lakester.  I was always intrigued by them.

c ya, Sum

Offline hitz

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tires??
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2006, 04:59:34 PM »
Quote

 Posted: 21 Feb 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Rick Byrnes wrote:
Goodyear LSR tires are available in almost all sizes, at least according to my local GY race shop after they checked with Akron....
Not cheap, but a good value for the load and speeds we all go....

Rick


Nice car Rick  If you don't mind I have to ask about the 4 wheel/tire arrangement in the front. Is that a load related issue? Or to get the frontal area down? Or do you just like to make things more complicated, like I do  .
 
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Offline russ jensen

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tires
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2006, 07:26:45 PM »
:shock: this bean counter thing is what wories me the most. One of my buddies sold his turbocgd pontcho to a guy @ goodyear  who was supposed to ge us some eagles as part of the deal , he disappeared & hasent been see & strip either, anyhow their biggest comcern was the ambulance chasers with theirlaw suits. I hate to build a car up & find no tires later, & if they get ruined that easy it would take a ton of spares, I havent built eng yet , maybe rethink and go small enough to stay under 200 so as to use tires I can afford, the 4 wheels in front got my attention also .why??? real nice looking rig!!
speed is expensive-how fast do you want to go?-to soon old & to late smart.

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Garlit's has tried this.
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2006, 08:45:10 PM »
Remember probably 10-15 years ago when Garlits built his first "streamliner" drag car? He made his own front wheels and used, I think, kevlar fiber re-enforced timing belts for tires. Now these things are pretty strong and light but at around 270 they "rubber banded" and flew off!! I think Gar went to the little airplane tires next.

Buy the real thing and same the money someplace else, like the paint job or the trailer.

Rex
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Offline Rick Byrnes

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tires??
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2006, 09:26:10 PM »
Sorry guys for posting that photo so large.  I thought Jon said the new program would automatically resize.  My mistake

The 4 front tires are inspired by the Tyrrell P34 Formula 1 car done in the late 70's.  It was very successful first time out, (2nd) and won the second race.  Partly aero and partly tire contact patch.
Aerodynamics are improved not only by less frontal area, but the tires in tandem create less turbulence.  (So says my Aero guy).
AND they are WAYYYY different.  Yes more complex, but it may be worth the effort.  I have NO data and probably never will have any back to back data to prove it is better since the car will evolve into a full liner in 08 (I hope)

The tires are not really airplane tires.  Goodyear made the first ones for Don Garlits, using an airplane tire mold, but different construction.  They are rated at 300 MPH with 1000 Lbs load.   The same idea as the front runner verses the LSR tire good for 300.   The sidewalls are very stiff.  There were some concerns of running these tires a few years back, and by using 4, and having less load, we think they will be ok as the car goes faster.  When I go fast next Speed Week we should find out a little.  The car now runs with a little 3.0L Pinto motor naturally aspirated.  I'm working now on the next version of my Merk turbo motor for 2007.  From day 1 the car was designed to be a turbocharged 3.0L streamliner.  The lakester version is just one way of getting to that point.  I'm not sure that when it comes to the body changes I'll have enough money, but I'm gonna sure try.....
Some of the body may end up composites instead of the aluminum I have now.....or at least a combination.

Cheers

Rick
Rick

StraightSix

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tires??
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2006, 12:17:39 PM »
How big are those tires exactly?

Offline Sumner

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tires??
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2006, 12:57:17 PM »
Thanks for the info.  When it becomes a streamliner will you narrow the front track and move the tires in or make a wider nose?  What do you plan in the back as far as covering the rear tires?

I planned my front and rear tires to be the same height, since I read in one of the aero books that if the air sees one (the front) then the second one (the back), if directly behind is in the same air, so there is no gain by having them different in width or height, or so the book says.  

I wonder about that since the air is going to want to close back in behind the front tire, especially on a long wheel base car like mine.  It just seems natural to want to make the front tires/wheels smaller like you have done regardless of the size of the back ones.

The other reason mine are the same height is to get the front and rear axles on the same plane so the pod going down the side of the car can cover both of them.

I'll be looking for your car next summer.  I saw a lakester in a magazine a few years back that had 4 rear tires.  It was suppose to be running a 2 cylinder KB motor.  The motor had been blown up by a top fuel team and the builder cut the motor apart and welded it together so he had the front and back of the motor plus 2 cylinders (V-2).  He did the same thing with a blower to make a shorter smaller one.  I think the projected HP was like 1200 on fuel and it was I believe a G (2 liter) motor.  I think it went fast, but maybe didn't actually set a record.  It was in Popular Hot Rodding if I remember right.  I always looked for it or more on the car, but never saw anything about it again.  The work that went into making the destroyed V-8 into a V-2 was unreal. There again I wondered about the reason for the 4 rear tires.

c ya, Sum

dwarner

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tires??
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2006, 01:48:14 PM »
John Bjorkman, SCTA Special Construction Committee Chairperson, is the builder of the 6 wheeled lakester with the 1/4 of KB for power. John holds the G/BFL record at El Mirage at 218. The car started as a motorcycle streamliner but crashed prompting John to add more wheels and tires.

I don't know the thinking behind the 4 rear tires, maybe too much torque. Bottom line, car looks cool, sounds cool and runs fast.

DW