Author Topic: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?  (Read 6367 times)

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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« on: September 08, 2011, 10:56:07 AM »
Roadster guys, what is the maximum radius that is allowed for the intersection of the firewall and the step pan? Also at the rear of the step pan where you are allowed to go up at 45 degrees??

Rex
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Offline dw230

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 11:41:41 AM »
Page 47, last paragraph.

"...45 degree or steeper angle."

DW
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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2011, 11:50:55 AM »
Rex I am not sure what you are asking ?   DW answered part of the question... at the point you turn the step pan "up" it must be 45 degrees or steeper as DW stated,,,

but I think your question was "where" must this turn up start. ??

The rule states the step pan can go no further rearward than 10" forward of the axle centerline...

So I think your question is where is the 10" measurement taken...

A.  at the point where the step pan bends up    ?   OR
B.   where it fastens to the floor pan, chassis etc.

I know this is not a Roadster diagram but it will help,,,, I too would like an answer.. as I have been told both A and B are correct.   ??



I would hope (A )is the answer, take the horizontal step pan back to 10" forward of axle, then go 45 or more degrees up to the attachment point on floor/chassis?? 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 11:54:18 AM by Cajun Kid »
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Offline hotrod

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2011, 12:39:07 PM »
I think he is asking what the maximum radius of the bend can be.

Must it be a square corner with a sharp edge or can you roll it up to vertical with say a 1/2 inch radius bend?

If it is just bent on a common sheet metal break it would have a relatively sharp radius of about 2x the thickness of the metal, but as I read it he is asking if that bend point can have a larger radius.

Larry

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2011, 02:58:26 PM »
Larry is correct. Can I make the intersection between the firewall and the step a 5 inch radius?? and can I make the transition from the step pan to the 45 deg up area a 5 inch radius (or even larger?)

Rex
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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 04:34:18 PM »
I am not sure you can do it that way... but I am not the ruling authority and the rule book is clear as mud on the design.

But !!  what I was told is the "step pan"  must be flat and attached to the frame and be no wider than frame,, not protrude below the frame rail more than the thickness of the material,,,, and blending to the firewall must be flat or a 80 degree bend, the same as if you have to box around the tranny or other stuff,,, the box can be bigger than needed and must be 90 degree bends / boxed.

So from that I gather no Radius/ rounding or even angles other than 90 degrees, except for the 45 plus degrees at the rear connection point.

Now are we more confussed or less ?  or is it just me ?

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

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Offline DallasV

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 04:50:03 PM »
I think the "spirit" of the rule is to keep the drivers lower extermities in the vehicle. If your attempt is to gain aero advantage I can say with all certainty that the roadster guys will be lined up with one hundred dollar bills to protest if you find your way to impound.
Records or parts, I didn't come all this way not to break something.

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 10:53:43 AM »
Cajun-- I like your drawing. My frame is zeed and the frame in farther forward than the 10" and it is at a 45 degree angle so I just used it for my tranistion place. (your black line not the red eventho the red line would be legal).

Remember that after you have made that transition from a step pan all the other paneling is considered "floorboards" and floorboards are defined as paneling which mounted above the frame and over "all" drive line and suspension components.

As for the front of a step pan remember to is defined from the "aft" most firewall at the front and for safety reasons must be sealed. Many I've inspected, slide into a reciever at the bottom of the firewall to do this. For the most part they are "square" design.

Please think about this. If one is not done is this type of way and you rolled it; where would the firewall end and the step pan begin? If you rolled the fire wall at the bottom of the frame rail would the end of it become the step pan? Same in the opposite direction. If you rolled the front of the step pan would it become part of your fire wall?

These are separate components with definitions. To some the roadster and other rules seem as clear as mud to me they are not. Back when I started didn't try to circumvent the rules eventho it looked that way to some. Every part of every car was scrutinized especially when it was in impounds. If we didn't have some trust and a forum loke this every car after it qualified wouh have the committee of it's class come over and scrutinize the entire vehicle and every part and do it again after the record run to make sure nothing was altered.

As Dallas states it's usually your competitors that keep you "honest". I have only looked under one vehicle that took a record from me and it had 2 infractions. One was very easy to see and was asked to be removed by the inspectors without any protest. The other was really not something that added any advantage (actually it was a detriment) so I said nothing (actually wrong of me). In 1985 another roadster was running in the same class we were and qualified on the sameday we both upped the record but mine was a little higher. It was during the time of 3 runs. As we were removing our head for measurment I notice that all of his carburators stuck thru his hood with no flash shield which was and is still a requirement. I said something to the officials reviewing my car. (this should have beed noted in the initial inspection and remedied). I never protested the vehicle as this was a safety requirement. He was never able to requaify and it apparently became my fault............Live and Learn......................Good Luck..JD
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 10:52:17 PM »
Jimmy,

Thanks for your info,,

Now look at my drawing.... the black line is my 2x4 frame,,,, the red is the "step pan"...

Can the pan go back as far as (A) 10" forward of the rear axle centerline then make it's 45 degree or steeper angle up to the trunk floor,,,   or is the 10" measured at point (B) ?

That is all I need to know before , I build the pan and go to the tunnel,,,

Thanks

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 11:35:16 PM »
Charles --

What was the configuration on your car that already passed ECTA scrutiny?  Why are you concerned about SCTA?

Stan
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline interested bystander

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 11:52:34 PM »
It's obvious to yers truly that Rex wants an aerodynamic advantage with large radii step pan corners.

NHRA Addresses the situation under Funny Car class - see Firewall and Dash. It (they?) specify no more than 5" radius but ask for a diffuser @ the radius.

There are areas of improvement in underbody aerodynamics, but methinks Rex bringing up what he 's done has spoiled a couple potential good spots. Huh, Dallas V.

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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2011, 12:19:14 PM »
Charles --

What was the configuration on your car that already passed ECTA scrutiny?  Why are you concerned about SCTA?

Stan

Stan, my car has passed both ECTA and LTA  tech for the speed I think I can run 210 to 225 mph.
However, I have not built the step pan yet,,, I need the answer to A or B first...I do not like "re-do's"

The reason I am concerned about SCTA  should be obvious,, when at Bonneville  it is SCTA rules , NOT ECTA or LTA  that will have to deal with,,, 

The STEP PAN is for Bonneville... and I need to build it within the SCTA rules,,,

I know your "Stan Back" way with words in asking me that question relates to the fact that I have not had the car to an SCTA meet yet... but keep in mind the car is a Work in progress and is only a year old,,, yes lots of track time (and standing start MILE and 1.5 Mile records) in that 13 months... but before I haul all the way there,,,
IT IS GOING TO BE RIGHT,,,,the first time,,,


Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

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Offline jimmy six

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Re: Firewall to step pan intersection maximum radius?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2011, 08:35:08 PM »
Cajun: in my opinion you can do "A". Remember to support it. As you stated the rules are specific. The aft end of a step pan can be no closer the the centerline of the rear axle then 10" and must tranisition up to be a "floorboard" (my words) at a 45 degree angle. You can make it up to a 90 degree angle just not less than 45...................Good Luck
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro