All braided brake lines? Anyone ever done it?

[biglady112]

I have just built my own frame for my truck. And I am a stickler for a clean look. I have envisioned not having any wires or hoses or lines run on the OUTSIDE of my frame. Now that I have a "Z" frame configuration, I am thinking running hard lines for my brakes is going to be a bit harder to do given I want a clean look. I had planned on running some Parker Brothers hydraulicly crimped -4 stainless hose or something equivilant for heavy duty. I also plan on running a race car floor mounted brake master cylinder. So far from the stock configuration.

I know it is common practice to replace all rubber pieces with stainless mesh lines. But has anyone ever done their entire brake system like this? In the mitsubishi aftermarket world, a lot of folks replace the entire clutch line from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder with a stainless line. I am not sure how much that differs from a braking system, but I am sure there is still some decent pressure built in that system.

I only ask as my friend freaked out a little saying it wasn't safe and was not a good idea as there is just too much flex there. I see it as the only feasible way to accomplish the look I want and plumb my system. I have seen it done before and did not think anything of it being unsafe. I fully intend on protecting the lines as I don't think I will be able to secure them inside a boxed tube rame.

I will be running the factory drum brakes that are on the front of the truck, as well as the rear drums that are on my corporate 12 bolt. This truck is for street use with little driving envolved. No racing will be done with this truck. Just needs to be able to handle what I normal car can handle on the public roads.

I am aware of possible issues with the lines flexing and having poor pedal pressure as well as any chaffing and rubbing of the lines. The pedal pressure is not a huge concern as my father's truck has been horrible in that department since I was a little kid. I am mostly just concerned if the truck can live a healthy life and keep me, my passengers and the other drivers on the road safe. This is a bare bones truck likely in the 2500lb range.

Any thoughts? Seen it done on entire vehicle before for street use? I have seen it on a race car a time or two, but those that come to mind also had a parachute and were not intended to be street driven anymore.

Again, I understand the risks, just would like some ideas on how feasible this is and what personal experiences someone might have with this. I do see this a lot with tractors, forklifts, bobcats and industrial equipment alot in their hydraulic systems. I am just having a hard time seeing as how this would not work in street driven vehicle with less strain and pressures than say a backhoe would use in a 10 hour shift day after day.

I hope this discussion goes well and we can have some good light shed on the situation without folks flying off the deepend close minded. Or even another idea to replace what I may have that can get some lines on the inside of an enclosed frame.

[Milwaukee Midget]

My 2 cents -

I'd listen to your friend on this one. 

Fluid transfers power undiminished - therefore, the conduits of this force need to be as stable as possible.  Yes, stainless braided has less flex than stock - I found a noticeable difference when I changed out my rubber hoses on the MGB - but they do have flex, and I expect you'd find the pedal a bit rubbery if you were to plumb the entire car with them.

The clutch you mention doesn't require the force that a brake system does, and it's not nearly as safety critical.

[jdincau]

Ditto to what MM said

[Freud]

Split the frame open, install the solid line and weld the frame shut.

It's a simple matter if you have to have the lines hidden.

No amount of effort is unrealistic if it's that important to u that nothing shows.

Be a pioneer

FREUD

[kiwi belly tank]

The Ole wise ones are talking to you son, all good advice.
I went the extra mile on my street belly tank to put the front & rear brake lines & the E brake inside the axle housings. The result was worth every bit of the effort.
MM is right on about a soft pedal.
  Sid.

[55chevr]

you can get stainless hard lines ... that would be clean looking.

[Glen]

You will feel pedal pump with a long hose. One drum out of round a small amount will cause it. Could be spongee as well. Polished stainless along the frame would look nice.

[Freud]

All of the plumbing on the Treit and Davenport streamliner, (Target550.com) is stainless. Mocked up

in aluminum and duplicated in stainless. You can do the same thing.

FREUD

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Typically you would want a flexible line for suspension movement, but it sure makes running lines easy. There are lines that are built for and intended for use in brake systems.


Speigler (makers of my lines on my car AND bike) makes braided long runs and will make them to your requirements. You will have zero soft feeling when using them.

THey are not cheap however.

http://spieglerusa.com/brakes/why-spiegler-brake-lines/line-construction.html

~JH

[Rex Schimmer]

I actually did a Mazda RX7 IMSA GTU car back in the early 80s with all -3 stainless/teflon lined hose and it really wasn't bad. It was raced for several years with out problems. Do not use -4 (1/4 inch) line, -3 (3/16) is much stiffer and has less oil under compression. I would really recommend going with -3 stainless tubing with short -3 lines where you need flex, really the best way.

Rex

[JimL]

If you need custom braided-line supports, you can get 1/8" stainless steel, spring-wire at the hobby shop (used for model air plane suspension).  The "hot fuel proof" tubing can be soaked in hot, soapy water and will slide over the wire after you've made the bends (the wire end hooks similar to a baby-pin).  These are oval to allow movement during steering, but eliminate the up and down bouncing that breaks the braid.  This has proven completely reliable in over 4 years of service.

Cheap, too!

(like me)   JimL

[javajoe79]

 I have seen full braided line on plenty of cars. Lot's of formula cars use them and still have a rock hard pedal. -3 is fine though, 4 is overkill and like someone said will flex more. It is alot easier to run braided line but if you do it in hard line, in the end it will be better and can look very nice. Also, the braided line has a much shorter lifespan then hard line.

[Nexxussian]

I've seen many and plumbed a few race braking systems with braided Teflon lines.

X2 on the -3.

Would I use that for the whole system in a street vehicle?

NO.

The whole point of using hose for the whole system is ease of maintenance.

When you are taking the hose out, cleaning and inspecting it at least once a year it's not a safety hazzard, but it has a drasticly shorter service life than even mild steel hard lines.

As others have said, if that clean of a look is that important to you, run hard lines inside the frame.

PITA?

YES.

Only reasonable thing to do for the street?

Definetly.