Help on buying a used diesel truck

[Saltfever]

The Smog Test
Any diesel ‘98 and newer and less than 14,000 GVW has a biannual (once every two years) smog requirement. The test is a joke and a rip-off! It is only designed to catch those that have removed OEM smog equipment (like a cat), or cold air packages that do not have an EO (executive order) number. The truck is not put on a roller (i.e., dyno) like gas cars are required to do. There is no tail pipe sniffer simply because the equipment for diesels does not exist. They mostly want to catch those that have removed the cat. However, if they spot a chip-change or Bully Dog thingy on the dash you will fail.

The legislation has emboldened businesses to take obscene advantage of the consumers ignorance! The know that owners assume anything with a diesel costs more. They count on the consumer not knowing what the test entails. Here is the test.
1.   Lift the hood and look for aftermarket stuff without an EO number.
2.   Start the engine and look at the tail pipe.
3.   END OF TEST

I have received quotes from $90 to $120 plus the $15 state cert. After 5 quotes I drove to the guy that would do it for $90. I then told him I knew what the test entailed and it could be completed in less than 2 minutes but even if it took 5 minutes $90 for 5 minutes was obscene. He agreed to do it for $60 including the $15 state cert. Essentially, businesses are charging the equivalent of $540-$1,200 per hour! You do the math . . .($90 for 5 minutes. $120 @ 10 minute, etc).

I don’t believe in the stereotypical crooked mechanic. We all wrench and we know the cost of things. But this legislation has legitimized outright thievery. They are pricing based on the pure ignorance of the consumer not knowing what the test actually entails . . . and the time taken. I have heard all manner of bs about the cost of the dyno (which is not used), the cost of the computer system to transmit the sniffer results to Sacramento (there is no tail-pipe-sniff test). Only your registration slip is transmitted.

You can tell I am mad about this moronic legislation by a So Cal assemblyman. If I wasn’t so busy with LSR I would write him a letter or get SEMA involved. Oh, wait a minute . . . SEMA just asked CARB for 1 month time extension to get more aftermarket parts approved. The Calif Air Resources Board approved the SEMA request.

[Saltfever]

When I first saw Slim’s mileage numbers I thought it was bs. I only got such good numbers when my truck was new and I was driving 55. Then I read on and he clearly states he drives slower than the speed limit. That is the key.

Mileage numbers from anybody should always be suspect. The biggest chance for error is clicking off the tank at full. It can easily skew the numbers along with odometer errors. That being said, I have never driven a vehicle that can produce such a wide range in actual fuel mileage. I have an ’06 Duramax. I carefully log fuel mileage and depending on how I drive I have seen a low of 17.3 MPG to a high of 21.2MPG. My usual mixed city/highway is around 19.5 to 20.3mpg (no towing). Not bad for a 6,400lb vehicle with the CdA of a barn. It only takes one or two passes on a two lane highway to screw up your mileage for the rest of the trip. Once you put your foot into that turbo and hold it to DOT legislated fuel cut-off speed, you can kiss good mileage goodbye for the rest of the trip.

[Jorge]

Saltfever,

       You went into much better detail than the forum I was on. That explains why the tech told the driver that they really dont do much for the smog test. Very good information to have, that's something new for me. I knew there certain regulations that diesels had to come by here in California and its also part of the reason why I started this thread, to become more knowledgeable about things surrounding diesel trucks. Thanks for posting!

[johnneilson]

One thing to think about on the older truck issue.
The fuel that these motors were designed to run is no longer available, sulfer content.
In '07, the ultra low sulfer fuel went into distribution at your local station.

The issue becomes injector pump lubrication. You have to use a additive like Stanadyne or Power Services lube.
I know of a lot of old timers who used old motor oil and even trans fluid.

FWIW, my neighbor just purchased a '94 Dodge Cummins dually. Really nice and clean, 125k miles and paid under $6k.
This truck is a virgin, no aftermarket parts, not burned up and time will tell but I feel very reliable. He just needs to add the raycor filter and the cavitation erosion fix and will have a truck for the rest of his life. Oh and a case of PS lube.

J

[Jorge]

Johnneilson,

        It seems that the Chevy's and the dodge trucks are a lot more popular and reliable than the fords. Its going to be another subject of interest for me to bring up and ask about this weekend with other teams. I'm going to stop by the local book store today and see if I can find a book on how to maintain a diesel truck. Thanks for your input.

[Glen]

Mines a 2003 Chev. Silverado duelly with duramax, has 112.600 miles on it and still runs like a dream. Just got back from a 6000 mile trip towing a 30 foot travel trailer. I had a Dodge Cummins prior to this one and it was a dog. 

[bak189]

Regarding smoging.......my 1991 model does not require smoging in CA... In Arizona (I also have` a place in AZ.) my 1991 requires smoging....But the work is done at a state station at (i was told) $27.00.
They lift the hood...run the engine to 2000rpm...see how much smoke out of the exhaust....your done...
just another way to make a few bucks.  But a least the price is within reason because it is done at a state
facility........In Oct. I will register the truck in AZ.....much cheaper registration fees....much cheaper insurance costs...

Auto-trans fluid in the fuel to lube the injector pump....works for me...............................................
Put a boost gauge in the truck.....control the boost and you control the fuel milage......open up the exhaust system let it breath ......split it into two pipes with straight thru glasspacks.....change the
diff. ratio to higher ratio (plenty of power to pull a higher gear) larger dia. wheels and tires (again higher ratio and saves tires) and your good for a half a million mile plus.....................................................

[johnneilson]

Johnneilson,

        It seems that the Chevy's and the dodge trucks are a lot more popular and reliable than the fords. Its going to be another subject of interest for me to bring up and ask about this weekend with other teams. I'm going to stop by the local book store today and see if I can find a book on how to maintain a diesel truck. Thanks for your input.

Ford used the International motors up to the "Power stroke" motors. I seem to remember that in '99? they had a major redesign, something like only salvaging the wrist pins. I do know that the early ones had major issues with ecu and turbo.

As far as the Dodge, my '99 had the candle lit. ran 35# boost and 3.5 gears. Pulled the race trailer over the Grapevine in Cali, overdrive at 80 mph. Trailer was Carson 32' 5th wheel loaded. Yep, that truck made strange noises, just turned up the radio. Oh, and with the stk exhaust.

You may start looking for a local shop who specializes in Diesel, I had a shop call Diesel Dyno Tune in El Monte years ago. These shops usually will shoot straight with you.

John

[Anvil*]

I lean towards the International and Cummings engines. More for durability and less plastic/computer bolt-ons. Towing and with the altitude changes you'll want the turbo versions.

Sadly one thing I have to do these days is talk to my insurance agent before picking out a new toy. I swear it seems like they want to charge an extra $200 a year because a particular model had stripes and better rims. Anyway, if you have a decent agent you can find the model and year ranges with lower insurance. Just like mileage and repairs, it's the total effect on your annual racing budget.

[Stainless1]

Bought a 99 Dodge dually w/150k a year or 2 ago, hail damage and needed a clutch to tow... $5500 Just spent another 160 putting in a lift pump.   If you can get the 24v motor I would go that way although everyone I know with the old 12v loves them.... like Bak.  Shop the midwest, lots of hail damage the last few years  
 

forgot, 17mpg @ 75 -80 not towing, 14-15 towing little car @ 65, 12-13 towing Max's 24' enclosed bike trailer, 10-12 towing the 40' gooseneck enclosed w/liner

[manta22]

I bought a used 2004 Dodge 3500 a couple of years ago and have been very happy with it. It has a 5.9L Cummins diesel with an auto trans; I got 13.5 mpg towing a 25 ft travel trailerup from Tucson to Ouray, CO where I am now (on the way to Bonneville). It has a gauge package to monitor the tranny temp (F), exhaust temp (F), and boost pressure (psi). On long uphill tows I watch the temp gauges to make sure they stay in the safe range.
Diesels have torque and get better mileage.

Regards, Neil

[jl222]

  Mine's a 99 ford powerstroke 7.3 litre bought new 109,000 miles '' not used much after buying Extera in 05''

 the best milage was 17mpg with very easy throttle, usually 13-14- towing 8-9 mpg.  65 MPH Calif- 75 mph
Nevada, faster if I'm sleepin and Bvillercr is drivein

  I know of one person with same truck that claims such high milage that he must have to stop and siphon some diesel out on the way to Bville

  I tell him, dont ever let me fill your tank.

  I would get better milage if I quit filling after 2 clicks, but to get complete fillup ''and more miles on road''
I keep filling with gas nozzel barely squeesed and add 3-4 gal or more due  to diesel fuel foaming so much.

 

       JL222

[Saltfever]

(snip. . . ) I would get better milage if I quit filling after 2 clicks, but to get complete fillup ''and more miles on road''
I keep filling with gas nozzel barely squeesed and add 3-4 gal or more due  to diesel fuel foaming so much.

That is a great point, JL and one I was trying to make. There is such a wide range in filling technique as well as differences in the sensitivity of the fill nozzles that any mileage claims should be taken with a grain of LSR salt!    Then when you add in the tendency of an owner to brag about his rig, and various driving techniques, some claims are not close reality. I wouldn't trust the numbers on other forums. Of course, this LSR forum you can take to the bank. 

[Saltfever]

Any thread like this you are going to get good information but a smattering of brand loyalty. The difficulty is trying to filter what is practical for your own goals. There have been a lot of technical changes on diesels in the later years. You will need to decide if you want older technology or newer and how long will you keep the vehicle. There has been a big leap in mileage, and cleaner emissions, when direct injection was introduced. There has been great improvement in transmissions also. All have overdrive and the six speeds are double overdrive. Although, I have a Duramax I will not knock other brands. However, the Allison 6 speed automatic is one of the best transmission ever produced. When first introduced as a 5 speed, it was only available on GM products. I waited 2 years for the 6-speed to come out. In 2006 Allison introduced the current 6 speed. Then in ’07 the Allison was available on other brands. It is widely used in motor homes and all fleet trucks. When you buy a diesel the power-train is incredibly important. In your research you need to select a decision-point year. Technology seemed to change around 2000 and became more progressively electrified in subsequent years. The 6 speed automatic was another turning point. The choices are bewildering. It might be reasonable to consider 3 periods in time. (1) older technology prior to 2000 (2) newer tech 2000-2005, and (3) later technology 2006 to present day. Once you look at the cost/benefits of an era you can then narrow your search.   I’m generalizing and I’m sure my decision points are arbitrary and others may define it even better. I will be very interested to see other points of view.  Good Luck.

[jl222]

  I was all set to buy an 05 ford crewcab but when we sat in the back seat it was completely uncomfortable

 compared to my 99. Ford made the floor area flatter and the seat cushion narrower so it could fold up closer

to back of seat and give more storage room.

  Also the truck set flat with no rake in it, I could imagine that the headlights would be shining on the moon
with the race trailer on and the rear loaded even with my equalizing bars.

    JL222