Author Topic: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.  (Read 10991 times)

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Offline 38flattie

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SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« on: July 30, 2011, 01:17:54 PM »
Somehow, I missed this in the book- Even looking for it, I can't find it, except for the statement" all fuel lines in the area of the clutch and flywheel shall be run through heavy steel tubing or outside the frame rail"

The tech sheet states (3.I) fuel/water/fire. lines, tanks & bottles in flywheel plane require extra shielding.

I have the water chiller lines, and dry sump oil return lines, in the plane, in the drivers compartment.

What is considered suitable extra shielding?



Do I need to worry about the lines in the blower drive plane? I see nothing about that.....
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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Offline maguromic

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2011, 01:30:17 PM »

Do I need to worry about the lines in the blower drive plane? I see nothing about that.....


Build it for the worst case scenario and like your going to Mars.  Depending on where you are on the track it will take some time for the safety crews to reach you.  The rule book only lists minimums required. Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline RichFox

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 02:46:55 PM »
1/8 inch steel minimum shielding in the drivers compartment. For fuel, oil and hot water. You don't want any of that on your fire suit. I would guess any nitrous bottles would need protection and need to be vented overboard, so really shouldn't be in the drivers compartment. I don't have and shielding on my fire bottles. Interesting to hear the official thoughts on this/

Offline 38flattie

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 03:11:19 PM »
Thanks guys!



There are no fuel lines in the drivers compartment, and the fuel lines run through heavy tubing in the flywheel plane,

Reading the rule book, I saw no mention of the water and oil lines.

We'll shield the water and oil lines in the drivers compartment. I don't see where the lines in the blower drive plane require anything, but we'll try and address that, as it would be so much safer to do so.

Seems to me, if it's going to be on the tech sheet, it should have been in the rule book.

Of course, I guess I could have read the tech sheet sooner! :-D

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 03:40:49 PM »
Thanks guys!



There are no fuel lines in the drivers compartment, and the fuel lines run through heavy tubing in the flywheel plane,

Reading the rule book, I saw no mention of the water and oil lines.

We'll shield the water and oil lines in the drivers compartment. I don't see where the lines in the blower drive plane require anything, but we'll try and address that, as it would be so much safer to do so.

Seems to me, if it's going to be on the tech sheet, it should have been in the rule book.
Of course, I guess I could have read the tech sheet sooner! :-D



Buddy, you are right, this has been brought up at board meetings and is being worked on. It's an evolution......  :-)

Remember, the rule book trumps the tech sheet but it is a good idea to shield any lines that's could be damaged by any type of rotational failure.
Michael LeFevers
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Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline 38flattie

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »
Thanks Mike- we'll shield them. :cheers:

The tech sheet just caught us a little off gaurd, because we thought we had our bases covered. I'm just happy that we started checking stuff against the tech sheet, and caught it.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2011, 09:11:15 AM »
Hey Guys - Dale here . . .  working on the car and a newbie to BVille rules  8-)

a) Water Lines - Intercooler: We have cold water lines going to the intercooler - I don't think I'm going to shield them . . . do you guys think we're cool with that?   They are not under pressure and will not be hot - so I don't see an issue, but I'm not the tech inspector.  

b) Dry Sump Lines to Tank:  We have three #12 dry sump lines going through the firewall - using AN bulkhead fittings.    I could build a shield out of 1/8" plate that bolts in and shields the lines OR, I can take everything out that I just put in, put three steel tubes through the firewall and go that route.   But - How would you SEAL around a big line that goes through a pipe?  I can make the pipes, but have no clue as to how to seal around the #12 lines that go through them.

Opinions on either approach?

c) Fuel Surge Tank - Up Front.
  The only place we have to mount our front fuel surge tank is behind the water tank in about a 12" area between the tank and the block.  It so happens the blower belt/drive will be in part of that area as well.   Given this, would we need to shield the surge tank in case of a belt or drive failure?  

d) Engine Water Tank - Move to Rear:   Given Item 'C' above, would we just be better off moving the whole big ole' water tank to the trunk (which will require a totally new one) - moving the water/weight to the rear and put the fuel/injector surge tank up front in it's place?   That seems the most logical, but introduces a LOT of work to build a new tank, route large water lines to the rear, etc, etc..  

Thanks for ALL the help and I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible at SpeedWeek and WOS.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 09:16:02 AM by BoredAndStroked »
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 09:21:18 AM »
Hey Guys - Dale here . . .  working on the car and a newbie to BVille rules  8-)
 

d) Engine Water Tank - Move to Rear:   Given Item 'C' above, would we just be better off moving the whole big ole' water tank to the trunk (which will require a totally new one) - moving the water/weight to the rear and put the fuel/injector surge tank up front in it's place?   That seems the most logical, but introduces a LOT of work to build a new tank, route large water lines to the rear, etc, etc..  

Thanks for ALL the help and I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible at SpeedWeek and WOS.

Ok, BoredandStroked and I just spoke on the phone.

The water tank will be moved to the back, like Stan Back has been telling me to do. The surge tank will be moved to the front of the engine, out of the blower drive plane.

Finally, a 1/8" shielding will be installed in the driver's compartment, to shield the dry sump oil lines, and the water chiller lines.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 10:00:18 AM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011, 12:35:19 PM »
  Now before everybody goes gaga over this tech sheet stuff, remember first it aint in the rule book  so it can't and wont be enforced.
  Secondly, think about it.  When was the last time a flywheel clutch exploded and penetrated a SFI clutch can on the salt.
  If any debris actually penetrated the clutch can does anyone think having thin wall steel tubing is going to offer any better protection than braded hose?
  Is this going to be another rule enacted without specifications like the last few such as lateral head restraints, window film/lexan, etal?
  If there is going to be a new rule, make it enforcement of SFI legal clutch cans.
  I fully expect to have to replace my one year old seat belts next year as a result of the "Danny Thompson" incident and the "new" finding that there are two types of belt material with the same SFI rating but different amount's of stretch.  Funny the manufacturer's never mention this to the consumer.
  As I have often stated on this site, Safety is and should be First on the list of all competitor's and inspector's lists, but don't arbitrarely come up with and declare "new" rules without researching how to enact them and without thinking thru how any new rule impact's the safety of the driver.
  I pray that no driver suffers serious burns trying to egress their vehicle with the new lateral head restaint system.  In the future I hope our safety committee becomes a litle more "visionary" and a little less "knee jerk".  I appreciate the work they do and am as concerned as the next person about all of us in our hobby.  But please, if you want to insert concern's or suggestions, don't put them on the tech sheet, put them in the rule book.
  We don't need contraversy in the tech lines...........  Bob

« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 12:39:24 PM by Bob Drury »
Bob Drury

Offline RichFox

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 01:09:15 PM »
I don't think you can bank on something that's not in the rule book not being enforced. It can and I have seen it. This is not Law And Order, Wendover. It's the SCTA.

Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 02:08:08 PM »
I know I am a newbie and have not "earned my stripes" to have many opinions for LSR racing (so forgive me being a bit brash), but it is conversations like this and "grey areas" that make it extremely difficult for a newbie to know what the heck to do?   We have a SFI clutch can - which is obviously rated and not just 1/4" material . . . but I have no clue as to whether or not I have/need to put shielding around things like dry-sump lines.  It is NOT in the book - and if it is something that can cause us to fail tech (or should be considered a valid safety issue), then it should be in the book.   I've been reading the book for over a year - it has been our build bible.   But - now that we're a week out of the meet, we decide to be prudent and review the tech inspection sheet - and it does not jive with the book . . . now that makes no sense to me.   

We've put lots of time and expensive plumbing into the dry-sump system, I could just as easily have plumbed it a bit different - if I had known I needed to and the book called it out.   My only option now is to fear the tech sheet (not the book) and change the system - which I can do, it just adds time/complexity and costs that I wasn't expecting.

The good news is that we're not using the dry-sump system at SW, but will at WOS - so I guess I'll ask all my questions at SW and see if we can get some definitive answers.  8-)

Much appreciate all the input - it DOES help a bunch.

B&S
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Goal:  Have fun, make friends, be safe - learn as much as possible, contribute when I can and hopefully get in the books!

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 04:49:02 PM »
   Well I may have stuck my foot in my mouth.
   As I re-read page one of the rule book, it seems that race officials have the "right" to change regulations at will.
  Given this "act of God", I would encourage us all to jury rig some unknown contraption of unknown specifications or size to cover any and all lines "in the plane of the flywheel" to suit the whim of "whom ever".                              Bob
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Offline jacksoni

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 05:05:23 PM »
I know I am a newbie and have not "earned my stripes" to have many opinions for LSR racing (so forgive me being a bit brash), but it is conversations like this and "grey areas" that make it extremely difficult for a newbie to know what the heck to do?   We have a SFI clutch can - which is obviously rated and not just 1/4" material . . . but I have no clue as to whether or not I have/need to put shielding around things like dry-sump lines.  It is NOT in the book - and if it is something that can cause us to fail tech (or should be considered a valid safety issue), then it should be in the book.   I've been reading the book for over a year - it has been our build bible.   But - now that we're a week out of the meet, we decide to be prudent and review the tech inspection sheet - and it does not jive with the book . . . now that makes no sense to me.   

We've put lots of time and expensive plumbing into the dry-sump system, I could just as easily have plumbed it a bit different - if I had known I needed to and the book called it out.   My only option now is to fear the tech sheet (not the book) and change the system - which I can do, it just adds time/complexity and costs that I wasn't expecting.

The good news is that we're not using the dry-sump system at SW, but will at WOS - so I guess I'll ask all my questions at SW and see if we can get some definitive answers.  8-)

Much appreciate all the input - it DOES help a bunch.

B&S

In 2008 and 09 I ran, and saw several other cars with similar, the dry sump tank in the passenger seat area, braided lines as you indicate with bulkhead fittings. Only comment was first year the breather hoses were not fire/melt proof. No comments about sheilding the lines at all. Several different inspectors. Of course as you have seen here, things not always so clear. Most of the time folks are reasonable and as it is not in the rule book nor tech sheet if someone objects, there have been times I have been told, ok this year, fix it next (as long as not obvious flagrant violation. And have had car pass tech for 10 years and then not, no uncertain terms, with no change in the rule that I could tell.
Jack Iliff
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Offline jacksoni

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 05:09:42 PM »
And along that line of dry sump tanks and other paraphernalia in the passenger seat area, look at the thread 2 down from this one on Arm restraints where are some pictures and comments about stuff in that area. 
Jack Iliff
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  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
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Offline jimmy six

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Re: SCTA Rules and Tech Sheet Question.
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 08:24:26 PM »
Bob D....There are 2 different Safety Harness and Seat Belt ratings 16.1 and 16.5 so they do not have the same #. The SCTA rule book states "either" and the 16.5 is in bold print because they are new addition to the SCTA rulebook. To me, it is not up to the manufacturer to tell me but up to me to ask. Mine are in their last year and will be replaced in 2012 also; I too will move to the less stretchable 16.5.............Good Luck
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