Landracing Forum

East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: bharmon77 on March 24, 2011, 08:18:30 AM

Title: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: bharmon77 on March 24, 2011, 08:18:30 AM
On my oval track cars I always ran 1/16 - 1/8 toe out so the car wouldn't "hunt around" on the straights. I see articles that recommend "toe in" for lsr ? I have 10 deg. of caster.  I need some advise.

BHarmon
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: DallasV on March 24, 2011, 08:49:59 AM
I don't know what is best, but we run 1/8 toe in and the car runs pretty straight as far as roadsters go.
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: dw230 on March 24, 2011, 09:02:06 AM
Dallas,

For a roadster does it really matter?

"When you drive a roadster its not a case of if you spin, its when you spin."  J D Tone

DW
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: MiltonP on March 24, 2011, 09:09:08 AM
My theory is that toe out used on the oval track cars to help compensate for the left turn set-up.  For LSR, I would expect very little to match up with an oval racer.  My old Miata was set up for road courses before I brought it out for LSR.  I can't remember the specifics but we did adjust toe a bit to slow down that quick turn in I loved on the road courses.
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Bootleggerjim on March 24, 2011, 10:01:29 AM
Toe end, and caster.........
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Stan Back on March 24, 2011, 10:54:55 AM
Echo on the 1/8-inch toe-in.
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: manta22 on March 24, 2011, 11:30:32 AM
Harmon;

First, make sure that you are measuring your toe-in at the ride height that you will be running on the salt. Any toe scrubs the tires and absorbs a bit of horsepower, so setting it at zero is best. Toe-in is usually a compromise to allow for the deflections of the suspension under load. The tighter the rod-ends, etc, the closer to zero you can set it. It is a good idea to check your bump steer while you are at it.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Peter Jack on March 24, 2011, 12:18:59 PM
Actually the toe out on an oval car is to help corner entry and stability through the corner. The car will hunt more down the straight than if it had toe in but because of the nature of the beast with tire stagger, caster stagger and different camber from side to side the effect of toe out isn't really noticeable. On a car running straight line such as lsr with good front end components I'd start at 1/32" toe in per side and go from there. If it wanders try a little more toe in, if it's stable try 0 and see if it works and if there's any difference in speed.

Good luck.

Pete
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Dean Los Angeles on March 24, 2011, 01:46:22 PM
Toe-out always puts one of the wheels in position to initiate a turn. It does help turn-in on an oval track or roadracing. If the left wheel is slightly turning the car wants to go that way. Correcting puts the opposite turn into effect. There is no stable position. If there is any play in the steering or suspension it will magnify the effect.

Toe-in compresses the play in the steering and suspension. Once you have a minimum of toe-in that is effective, more won't help and creates more drag.

Zero is the desired place to be for maximum speed. Frame and suspension geometry may not allow it.
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: t russell on March 24, 2011, 03:29:29 PM
with the front of my s10 up 3 in. I have 0 toe in. at rest 1/8 toe in
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: John Burk on March 24, 2011, 04:01:50 PM
If handling is a problem do what works best . If it's not , set toe to compensate for flex due to rolling resistance and scrub , dynamic zero scrub .
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Cajun Kid on March 24, 2011, 04:42:45 PM
Toe In for sure... Zero Toe in is desired if car handles well,,, I am at a heavy 1/16 toe in on the straight axle 1933 Ford Vicky and a a light 1/16 on the Studebaker.

Both seem to do well.

Good luck...

Charles
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Dean Los Angeles on March 24, 2011, 04:50:53 PM
Quote
I am at a heavy 1/16 toe in on the straight axle 1933 Ford Vicky and a a light 1/16 on the Studebaker.

"light" 1/16 plus a planafortin with dihedral equals "heavy" 1/16?

or perhaps 0.011194037 smoots?
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Cajun Kid on March 24, 2011, 05:19:02 PM
Quote
I am at a heavy 1/16 toe in on the straight axle 1933 Ford Vicky and a a light 1/16 on the Studebaker.

"light" 1/16 plus a planafortin with dihedral equals "heavy" 1/16?

or perhaps 0.011194037 smoots?


Dean,, I think your math is perfect  :cheers:
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: bharmon77 on March 25, 2011, 02:02:33 PM
I would like to thank everyone for thier response and I will see you at Maxton in April. This is a great forum and what amazes me is the level of expertise that responds to the simplest questions, I sure do appreciate that. Do you always beat up on the roadster class guys ?

BHarmon
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: ol38y on March 25, 2011, 02:06:13 PM
I would like to thank everyone for thier response and I will see you at Maxton in April. This is a great forum and what amazes me is the level of expertise that responds to the simplest questions, I sure do appreciate that. Do you always beat up on the roadster class guys ?

BHarmon

They do when there's no motorcycle guys around...  :cheers:
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: oldracer19 on March 26, 2011, 09:09:21 AM
The roadster guys take a lot of ribbing on here. Which is why I want one sooooo bad! They gotta be having the most fun, the way everyone picks on them  :-D
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Dan Stokes on March 26, 2011, 08:54:25 PM
Keith told me to run 1/8 toe in on the Camaro.  My brain says it should matter if it's front or rear steer but I have no data on that - just a "seems like".

Dan
Title: Re: Toe in or toe out?
Post by: Peter Jack on March 26, 2011, 09:10:32 PM
In this case front steer or rear steer makes no difference. The difference comes where the rubber meets the road, literally, and how much play there is in the steering components.

Pete