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Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: SPARKY on March 13, 2011, 05:11:35 PM



Title: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on March 13, 2011, 05:11:35 PM
The Lack of a fast car, Al's lakester Betsy, and Ack's MC Liner have inspired our latest efforts that will be another ugly BETTY Lakester. This effort will mostly be round, this time made out of a bomb bay ferry tank from a F105-B  more affectionately called the THUD!!!!!!!!!--

My wife Linda is firmly convinced that INSANITY PREVAILS and RULES within the demented brain cavity of momma Smith's oldest baby girl Bill's skull.

The welding jig is back in the shop,  The old water cooled band saw has been resurrected by John and I, the old drill press has been converted to a tubing notcher by Joey Diagneault with a pipe vice provided by John, the scrounged chop saw now works thanks to John McKnight.  I finally found some one that could roll me to 30" i/2 hoops that we welded together.  We are off like a heard of turttles in persuit of our Salt fix


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 13, 2011, 05:16:05 PM
Great name, Sparky.  We used to have a cat named Thud.  She got the name by weighing 13 or 14 pounds and jumping off the furniture.  When she'd hit the floor there'd be a big "thud" -- and from that came her name.  I hope your new car hits big numbers -- not the floor.  Thanks for starting a build diary, and best wishes for the entire project - and the gang building it.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on March 13, 2011, 05:29:18 PM
Sparky, it sounds like fun!

Isn't it hard building a car you think is ugly?!

Maybe you should think of it as 'aesthetically challenged'. :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stainless1 on March 13, 2011, 09:19:19 PM
The Lack of a fast car, Al's lakester Betsy, and Ack's MC Liner have inspired our latest efforts that will be another ugly BETTY Lakester. This effort will mostly be round, this time made out of a bomb bay ferry tank from a F105-B  more affectionately called the THUD!!!!!!!!!--

My wife Linda is firmly convinced that INSANITY PREVAILS and RULES within the demented brain cavity of momma Smith's oldest baby girl Bill's skull.


Bill... is there something we should know?  :roll:

Why the 30 inch hoops?  Using them to mount the body to the frame?  And we all know there are no ugly 300 MPH cars... sometimes fast ain't pretty


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Skip Pipes on March 13, 2011, 09:24:32 PM
SPARKY is a very clever guy and I thought the “Rat” looked beautiful at 300 MPH.

No doubt “THUD ugly” will be brilliantly modest, simple and beautiful, beyond 300MPH.

Skip Pipes


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: desotoman on March 13, 2011, 10:21:15 PM
Sparky,

Just curious, why a second Lakester?

Tom G.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 13, 2011, 10:43:55 PM
Tom,

Two reasons on top of the fact that I sold the RATICAL:
 # 1 a LAKESTER is a heck of a lot simpler to deal with than a dual eng LINER 
# 2 I want to see if my UGLY ideas CAN compete with Seth's BEAUTIFUL ONES  :-P

I think I have two things in mind, no 3:
# 1 get the aero cleaned up a bunch
# 2 CLEAN the AERO up a BUNCH
# 3 if all else fails try to throw some more HP at it  :-D


SS#1  The 30" hoops are very slightly smaller that this WEIRD tank I have and they will give me the most flexiabilty in working the frame in the eng. bay and Around the exhaust system!!!  at leat I HOPE it will!!!!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Bville701 on March 14, 2011, 12:05:40 AM
Sparky,

I can't wait to see what " Ratical" idea you have come up with. Are you looking to be a contender for the first lakester to reach the 400 MPH mark?   :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2011, 09:11:23 AM
Mike,

I haven't thought much about that.  I have pondered the requirements enough to know I don't have the Resources to properly do that.  I am more intrested in NA where the HP is some what limited and I can approach it from of the Hot Rodders traditional approach instead of Hard Core Top Fuel type components.

I have been lucky enough to find some others who suffer from our type of Salt love and would enjoy finding other KINDRED souls who are intrested in our addiction. Some where down the line if some one wanted to be an engine partner I might be intrested.  But it would take new Engines, trannies, rear ends and a WING!!! :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: mkilger on March 14, 2011, 10:06:43 AM
Thats funny, we are building a new body for the GOT SALT lakester  as we speak hoping to clean it up a bit for that 315 record


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: bvillercr on March 14, 2011, 02:00:20 PM
Thats funny, we are building a new body for the GOT SALT lakester  as we speak hoping to clean it up a bit for that 315 record

Have they thought about getting the butterflies in the air more?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: bearingburner on March 14, 2011, 02:42:10 PM
Why not have two lakesters ? Think how much faster you could go for broke or is it go broke faster.
I know one is about I can handle and that has taken 10 years.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2011, 04:55:24 PM
I sold Ratical  so I am presently without a "Ride-for-the-FIX" hence the new car.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: mkilger on March 15, 2011, 11:16:09 AM
ya we got the butterflies getting alot more air  with the new body than before :wink:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 15, 2011, 03:13:12 PM
Sparky,
How about a picture of your tank so we can see what your starting point is.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on March 15, 2011, 05:31:54 PM
Sparky,
How about a picture of your tank so we can see what your starting point is.

Rex


X2! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 15, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
nose


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on March 15, 2011, 07:12:59 PM
Wicked!

I love this 'old school' type lakester. Have you guys done any drawings or sketches the look your going for?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 15, 2011, 07:16:04 PM
ok


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 15, 2011, 07:17:42 PM
Whew,  the OLD dog struggled with my wifes camera and software---only had to try fifty 1000 times---the sad thing is ---*I am SURE we will not rember what all we did  lol

RAT-a-Tack will PROBABALY end up looking almost exactly like the Ack's Liner with 4 wheels without the different slope angle for the canopy view ports.  The front axle will be attached on the front of this tank with the cut off blunt nose over it. 21 or 22x15 fronts and 24.5x16 rears


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on March 15, 2011, 08:11:50 PM
Old sckool build like that dictates that you need a flathead! :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 1212FBGS on March 15, 2011, 08:52:06 PM
sparky
you know i did the body and have the molds for the Ack liner.... i can make you a body
kent


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2011, 12:18:14 AM
Thanks Kent I will keep that in mind for the back of the body. What was the diameter?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stainless1 on March 16, 2011, 08:15:06 AM
Bill, your instructional video is on the way to AZ, I think it will show you how to make the blunt nose.  All you need is a planishing hammer and an english wheel....  :-o 
This is going to be a cool lakester folks.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2011, 08:37:47 AM
SS #1 It all ready has a blunt nose---back to the shop with the camera!

The nose we cut off is only about 7-8" longer than what you see. 

Thanks SS #1I look forward to seeing how you guys incorporated the internal bulkhead hoops.  I will wait to see before we cut anything or crawl in and drill the bulkheads off the hoops.

The 2 biggest trade offs (ie UNRESOLVED ) as I see them:

1. The HP we give up while trying to keep the exhaust inside the body.

2. The bottom of the car at the rear wheel area--- Aero vs Downforce


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2011, 11:13:48 AM
This looks like the beginnings of a Prussian "tack" helmet to me :-D  I see some UNUSUAL nose art  (like maybe a Salt Rat with a Tack helment just itching to be splattered up here!!!! lol

PS
Wow:  I didn't forget  from picking up the camera, downloading, renaming, resizing, attaching to this post, to checking, and editing this note--less than 5 min---

PSS SS #1 remember this was an internal bomb bay ferrytank, hence the unusual shape


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stainless1 on March 16, 2011, 04:02:13 PM
Hey Bill, there is probably a menu selection on the camera that will take a picture small enough to post... of course that might mess up what you have learned  :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on March 16, 2011, 04:39:23 PM
This looks like the beginnings of a Prussian "tack" helmet to me :-D  I see some UNUSUAL nose art  (like maybe a Salt Rat with a Tack helment just itching to be splattered up here!!!! lol

PS
Wow:  I didn't forget  from picking up the camera, downloading, renaming, resizing, attaching to this post, to checking, and editing this note--less than 5 min---

PSS SS #1 remember this was an internal bomb bay ferrytank, hence the unusual shape

You  built a Wok!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: jpm49c on March 16, 2011, 04:52:00 PM
Yes. We are funding this tank by writing and selling a Oriental Hot Dog cookbook It will be called "How to WOK Your Dog"
                             John


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on March 16, 2011, 07:13:33 PM
Yes. We are funding this tank by writing and selling a Oriental Hot Dog cookbook It will be called "How to WOK Your Dog"
                             John

Awesome :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2011, 07:52:13 PM
if it is a Wok- :?- it must be a DEEP fry version  :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: MC 1314 on March 16, 2011, 09:23:26 PM
What's that got to do with exercising your dog?
Bob


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2011, 08:06:18 PM
I am soliciting suggestions how we might do the canopy on this "Sloped Nose" tank.
       vertical vs. sloped cuts----ect ect

 
Note the two vertical blue tape lines.  The rear one is where the rear bulkhead will be--the cage will be from there 18" forward.

The front vertical is approximately where the front canopy hinge will be.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: maguromic on March 18, 2011, 10:33:53 AM
Would it be possible to sit low enough to look through the car and open a section in the front?  Kind of like the 909, 253, 221 and the 1116 lakesters.  Tony


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 18, 2011, 10:46:01 AM
Tony, yes we do not plan on changing the profile.  Just try to decide the opening shape and wether to cut at the bulkhead or in front of the cage.

the imortal question:

to hinge or not

 in the front or on the sides


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: maguromic on March 18, 2011, 10:50:17 AM
I would hinge the front and for redundancy have the side panels on  Hartwell latches for an emergency.  Tony


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2011, 09:54:48 PM
Hartwell latches---well it off to Google on that one.

John and I had a good day  (PICTS) to follow.  We clamped the  hoops in place and put a ruff mock up eng/trans in place as well as the rear axle---what did we learn???

Well, I think I can get the eng and exhaust in side the 30"  but we are going to have to put the new dry sump pan, starter and other STUFF on a block and plumb it  to determine where to put the frame rails between the Eng bay hoops.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Elmo Rodge on March 20, 2011, 10:03:59 PM
Would it be possible to sit low enough to look through the car and open a section in the front?  Kind of like the 909, 253, 221 and the 1116 lakesters.  Tony
And the 404 Lakester.  :-D Wayno


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: maguromic on March 20, 2011, 10:35:58 PM
Sparky, There are several styles of Hartwell latches, but I was suggesting of using one like this (picture from the net).  The NASCAR boys use them on the windows and I have seen some liners use them as canopy release.  Tony
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/H134P5_112_1400_latch.jpg)


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2011, 10:42:36 PM
Thanks Tony for the picts---Wayno---we will not have Near that good a view from the snout-- :-(


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 20, 2011, 11:41:22 PM
Would it be possible to sit low enough to look through the car and open a section in the front?  Kind of like the 909, 253, 221 and the 1116 lakesters.  Tony
And the 404 Lakester.  :-D Wayno

Ok, that's it Wayno....you've got a week to start a build thread and post some pics or I WILL.......then you'll have to keep posting in order to correct the false claims I make on your behalf :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :cheers:

Get cracking.

PS: I have just enough info, real and/or imagined to keep you busy. :wink:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 21, 2011, 12:30:27 PM
Sparky,
This is a pic of Steve Nelson's no. 221 tank with a SBC in it. It is a 30 inch dia tank and you can see that even with a small block getting the headers inside the body would really be a challenge. One approach that you might consider is the way the guys with the Contrivance Special modified roadster guys do, a short individual header for each cylinder with some leading and trailing aero devices. Probably not as HP efficient as a good set of "tuned" headers but certainly a lot easier to build. And as you know they do hold every unblown modified roadster record from E through AA.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 21, 2011, 04:49:03 PM
Rex---maybe I should have said exhaust---not headers as we know them---


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on March 21, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
Sparky, There are several styles of Hartwell latches, but I was suggesting of using one like this (picture from the net).  The NASCAR boys use them on the windows and I have seen some liners use them as canopy release.  Tony
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/H134P5_112_1400_latch.jpg)

How are these latches operated from the inside AND the outside?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Elmo Rodge on March 21, 2011, 05:35:49 PM
Sparky, There are several styles of Hartwell latches, but I was suggesting of using one like this (picture from the net).  The NASCAR boys use them on the windows and I have seen some liners use them as canopy release.  Tony
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/maguromic/H134P5_112_1400_latch.jpg)

How are these latches operated from the inside AND the outside?
The button on the right is pushed from the outside and the lever on the left is operared from the inside. It is upside down as pictured. Oh yeah, the button is flush mounted. Wayno


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on March 21, 2011, 05:58:36 PM
Thanks Wayne! For some reason I thought it was two buttons outside Duh! And Dunno why I had you on ignore? Weird, lets chalk it up to fat fingers and Fat Tire beer :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on March 22, 2011, 02:10:11 PM
What John and I got done Sunday.  The bulkhead will be in the front hoop you see in the upper part of the image.  The rear hoop will not be round as we plan on running the exhaust right next to the skin unless the car tells us different.  The next step will be to plumb several things on the mock up motor so the car will tell us where to run the frame rails.  We know where several will be, but not all. 

Pork Pie is to advise us of his thoughts on the configuration of the frame and body back of the trans mount and under the rear axle.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on March 22, 2011, 09:58:19 PM
Looking good!

Tight fit though, huh?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 22, 2011, 10:32:26 PM
Looking good!

Tight fit though, huh?

tight?....... they could run air-con :-D :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on March 22, 2011, 10:37:49 PM
Looking good!

Tight fit though, huh?

tight?....... they could run air-con :-D :-D

 :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 10, 2011, 07:50:10 PM
Last Sunday Joey, John and I dugout one of my old truck blocks and mocked up the drive train to see if it would be possible to get a tall deck in--just barely---maybe someday we will win the bigger bullet lottery!!

Today we notched the lower frame tubes 1.75 .134 dom and tacked them to spacers and the the build jig.  Put the mocked up eng., trans, rear axel between them and nailed down the eng placement.  We have not ben able to get the 2" DOM frame hoops rolled to a 30" diameter---this car is going to be LONG; between 26' to 30' OL, wb around 222"


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 12go3az on April 18, 2011, 01:53:58 PM
SPARKY  if you still need the 2" tube rolled a  friend of mine here in Buckeye can do it.   Jim 602-708-3668


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rick Byrnes on April 18, 2011, 02:48:44 PM
Sparky
Not so long.  I ended up with 250 inches.
Does size matter?, only when it makes you go slower  :-d


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: gotzy on April 20, 2011, 04:25:55 PM
One approach that you might consider is the way the guys with the Contrivance Special modified roadster guys do, a short individual header for each cylinder with some leading and trailing aero devices.

Got any pics of what you're talking about Rex?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 20, 2011, 08:37:56 PM
Had two delightfull phone calls today:

1. from the fab shop---I could come pick up my 2" hoop tubes --- well almost hoops

2.Jim Kirk called telling me about his recovery & mending --and rebuilding the Coupe


what a delightfull 58 minutes---cant wait to get out to Buckey see their project  thanks for the call Jim!!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 21, 2011, 12:04:55 AM
Gotzy,
I checked my Bonneville pics and do not have one of the Contrivance modified roadster, maybe some one else has one that shows the headers. Just imagine fairly short stacks, 12-15 inches long and pretty much straight out from the side of the block with a slight, maybe 15 degree bend toward the back at the end of the pipe. Then they added sheet metal between each pipe and added a tapered tail on the last tube. Just another of the many innovative aero things that are on the car. It does not follow the prevailing thinking in the modified roadster class of being low, flat bottomed, pointy nose and straight sides. Again they hold all of the unblown gas records from E through AA so they are doing something right.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 21, 2011, 12:26:10 AM
. Just imagine fairly short stacks, 12-15 inches long and pretty much straight out from the side of the block with a slight, maybe 15 degree bend toward the back at the end of the pipe. Then they added sheet metal between each pipe and added a tapered tail on the last tube. Just another of the many innovative aero things that are on the car. Rex
I know you and I don't see eye to eye on all things aero Rex but ......on a roadster it may not be that significant but the pipes themselves aren't the issue, it's the exhaust flow that is detrimental to the airflow down the sides of the vehicle, if it is at the very rear it can be a positive influence.....zoomies are a hell of a lot easier, but if we were after the easy route we wouldn't be doing this anyways.

Send that exhaust out the tail.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 21, 2011, 09:23:35 AM
We will not be all the way out the rear but we will be pointed st back


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dynoroom on April 21, 2011, 11:02:51 AM
Here are a few shots of "Contrivance". Record holder in 6 (maybe more?) AA, A, B, C, D, & E gas modified roadster class.
Take a look at the 266 mph record in "C"


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 21, 2011, 01:43:05 PM
I think that  :-o comes under the heading of " not many unturned stones"   :-D  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stan Back on April 21, 2011, 01:58:19 PM
Couple comments . . .

They're using the "un-aero" 23-25 body.

Some of the modifications can only be applied to MR, CC, L and S classes.

And really awesome (hate that word, but it fits here) performance.

Stan


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 22, 2011, 08:42:29 AM
If you noticed in the pics that Mike has posted the car is in impound! They seem to speed a lot of time there. As for the "un aero" 23 body, if you talk to them they have some good reasons to use this body and maybe it is not as "un aero" as we think. I just think that this car is a case of not following the leader and doing what everyone else is doing, at that point it all gets down to horse power. These guys did some real "thinking outside the box" and have a pile of records to show for it. I have the feeling that Sparky's new piece will be the same.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 22, 2011, 11:22:33 AM
Rex,  that may be hard to live up to  :-P  but at least this time it will not look like a BOX   :cheers: 

I really thought about call this thing "TxAz CeeCar"  as a play on words of the original Texas Cigar that I saw stored in the rafters of a airplane hangar at Stormy Mangum's Airport in the late sixties. But being the coward that I am i decided that I wasn't brave enough to show up in inspection with new TX flag colored race car.  lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on April 22, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
Sparky, you could of went with an earlier Texas flag, and found out who knew their history! :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: maguromic on April 22, 2011, 06:06:30 PM
The Burnet Flag of 1836, inspired by the first Florida flag.  Tony


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on April 22, 2011, 06:15:58 PM
The Burnet Flag of 1836, inspired by the first Florida flag.  Tony

 :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 24, 2011, 09:29:33 PM
we are getting closer we are getting the spacial relationships worked out:

frt axle to hoop 84"

hoop to rear mtr plate 70.5"  this is big enough if we ever want to run a Trailblazer motor.

rear mtr plate to axle cl 62"

rear axle to end of car 72"  so that we can still haul it on my 20' flat bed


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on April 24, 2011, 09:34:46 PM
You guys sure don't waste any time- it's looking real good!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 25, 2011, 12:32:18 PM
Sparky,
Don't let the length of your trailer dictate the design of your lakester. I knew a guy that had a streamliner that needed to have the body extended in the rear, but it would not fit his trailer then. He spent big piles of money with a "big name" motor guy and never went any faster. He sold it and the next guy extended the tail and went over 400. He didn't worry about how long his trailer was.

Looking at your basic layout it appears that the tail of your car is going to be something along the lines of flatten cylinder which will provide you with a type of tail fin. If this is the plan I think you are on the right trail.

Rex



Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 25, 2011, 04:39:41 PM
Rex this is Pork Pies  first efforts ---thanks PP for your help

The helmet just gives cockpit  indication don't expect any of the cage to be above


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Crosley on April 30, 2011, 10:46:57 AM
that blue t-400 transmittin and GV unit looks familair

 8-)


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 30, 2011, 11:13:08 AM
It Should  :cheers: Thanks again Tony


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on April 30, 2011, 10:35:09 PM
A great day of bingiengineering---played with the hoops and noodled out a lot of stuff including a few BLs  John and I will Attack the noodling Sun am


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on May 24, 2011, 10:05:26 AM
Great day Sunday we moved the lower frame tubes out a bunch to clear the Trans Shield and make the Dry Sump lines easier to deal with.  :-P this week hope to modify the mid plate some more to drop the Eng another 1- 1.5 " made possible by the thinner dry sump oil pan ---may give up some ponies but dry to keep the carb/ air intake system minimal.



Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on May 24, 2011, 10:13:03 AM
WOW what a difference 3 years can make :-o

Marsh Racing Wheels in Ark.  now is very up to speed on LSR Wheels just ordered new 15x4.5 with 3.25" offset to minimize the scrub radius.  They also now stock MOON tabs and LSR Valves Stems so that one call does all!!

They did say that they have had to start shipping one wheel per box because of UPS concerns.

What a great bunch of guys!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on May 25, 2011, 12:43:33 AM
well reality sat in---I forgot about the starter---we have learned the hard way about starters---we will leave them were we can get them on and OFF


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on June 30, 2011, 10:41:26 AM
Sparky, I was at Terry's this morning, and saw your fresh cut front hubs

Man, they looked great!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on June 30, 2011, 02:50:13 PM
you mean he wasn't joshing me!!! they live?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on June 30, 2011, 03:08:50 PM
They sure do-look real nice, too!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on June 30, 2011, 07:12:46 PM
This week end we should have the hoops done and the lower frame rails in place, will have to decide on rear water tank position.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2011, 08:57:30 AM
been lazy :-o  and can't find my camera  :cry:  started work on cockpit area  wow has steel gone up $54. for a 3/8" 18x18 to make the 17" circle for the "battery basher" nose bulk head!  Glad I had most of the tubing already


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on July 14, 2011, 05:46:33 PM
Sparky....we (I) need pics!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 14, 2011, 05:54:26 PM
Sparky....we (I) need pics!
He's been so busy driving around picking up parts for other people I'm surprised he's got anything done.....

ta Bill...............


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2011, 01:21:41 AM
John came over today and we worked on the frt. 

Rex I have raised it to at least 3" at the frt axle and 3.5 at the rear axel. It will continue to rise especially past the rear water tank.  Andy and I BingEngineered the rear frame and chute mount.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stainless1 on July 15, 2011, 07:41:42 AM
Hey Sparky Bill, put a board on top of the rails for your butt and feet, will simulate the room you need for firesuit. 
What are you bringing to speedweek?
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: mkilger on July 15, 2011, 09:15:39 AM
Sparky, why your legs above the upper frame rail and your arms out side of the car?  :|


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2011, 10:56:59 AM
 :-o Fat boy  :?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 15, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
More interesting than his knees and arms -- why isn't he wearing a Subaru-eating grin and going "Zoom, ZOOM!" :-)


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: jl222 on July 15, 2011, 01:06:07 PM
More interesting than his knees and arms -- why isn't he wearing a Subaru-eating grin and going "Zoom, ZOOM!" :-)

   Yea...well maybe because its 115 deg outside but the shop must be air conditioned a bit or 5 am.

  Lookin good Sparky, got to be tough fittin everything in.


                   JL222


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on July 15, 2011, 02:06:32 PM
Sparky.
That is looking GOOD!!!!

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2011, 02:13:34 PM
we are bring some gears & tires for export.  A big cooler, cots and digital cameras to record any other IDEAS that may help us go faster!  John and I will be living the "homeless LSR guys" bend in the road bum style of race meet!!!

We will be especially shopping for exhaust Ideas.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2011, 03:06:28 PM
We have been noodling the exhaust we are thinking of a werid tri-y 2  2.25 x 2.5 out  these go into a FLAT 2.5x 6" collector that has the center open to form an extractor exhaust to move hot air out of the Ehaust Box around the exhaust port area  trying to cool with out being in the "AIR"


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 15, 2011, 06:07:04 PM
we are bring some gears & tires for export.  A big cooler, cots and digital cameras to record any other IDEAS that may help us go faster!  John and I will be living the "homeless LSR guys" bend in the road bum style of race meet!!!

We will be especially shopping for exhaust Ideas.

Being employed in the Homeless welfare sector makes me somewhat of an expert in the field Bill, I will be bringing you some medicine , trust me it will cure all and any ills.Might even fix your exhaust. :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on July 15, 2011, 11:41:05 PM
Sparky,
As a veteran member of the "Bend in the Road Homeless LSR" fraternity we should make an attempt to get together with Doc Gog and try some of his special medicine from the "deep" south. I'll bet it ain't bad. The Doc and I can go a couple of rounds on how low you should make your lakester too!!

Looking forward to seeing you there.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 18, 2011, 05:24:03 PM
Yesterday Joey and I made the battery basher and tacked in the lower rails  the upper rails will take some work with a die grinder!  After hearing stories racers of encountering timing light batteries that lurk behind the mile markers we decied we wanted a solid plate for a nose and the entire lower part of the cage will be covered with 1/4 plate.  Thanks to Mr. Burklands suggeston, the foot box will be much smaller than the prior car.

Thanks to John McKnight, a team member for much of the help and the Photos!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on July 21, 2011, 07:20:45 AM
Looking Good! Looks like with those hoops, you'll have the ability for several engine choices.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 21, 2011, 08:54:01 AM
This thing is larger than I would really like,  but yes we are designing and building for SEVERAL OPTIONS! :cheers:  I do not think a R2800 would go in there though :-P


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: bearingburner on July 21, 2011, 09:42:06 AM
That "deep south medicine" should be real good if aged in the truck all the way to Bonneville.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 22, 2011, 06:47:37 AM
Spent 2 hrs in the shop last night coping the  (hopefully  :| ) frt Hoop.  Wow what a s l o w messy process when you are doing it with cut off wheels and grinder ugh


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2011, 08:33:36 PM
We made a new tool to help with the notching, and things went faster! 

See  HOW TO section----Home made tubing notcher.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2011, 08:44:00 PM
Opps, for got one!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on July 24, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
That's not for the claustrophobic, is it? :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 24, 2011, 08:58:03 PM
Spent 2 hrs in the shop last night coping the  (hopefully  :| ) frt Hoop.  Wow what a s l o w messy process when you are doing it with cut off wheels and grinder ugh

I reckon I "passed" a few llbs of that dust building our frame, I know I picked about half a ton of it out of my nose....as a friend said years ago   "the best thing about welding and grinding is it gives you a great thirst for beer, and something to do ( nose-picking) while you're at it." :-D

anyway, looks like you'll be doing some yoga............

Quote
After hearing stories racers of encountering timing light batteries that lurk behind the mile markers we decied we wanted a solid plate for a nose and the entire lower part of the cage will be covered with 1/4 plate

Our floor is 1/4 our drivers compartment is plated in with checkerplate , we were mainly worried about the radius rods in a real serious upset but stuff like the batteries is a good point...a battery hitting that at 300mph would be something .....


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: manta22 on July 24, 2011, 09:50:07 PM
Dr;

Grinding dust is not to be taken lightly. Breathing it in can give you lung problems that are really serious. After getting a big dose of dust a few years ago and feeling like I had a case of pneumonia, I became a stromg advocate of wearing dust masks. 3M makes very good ones; they look a little like the hardware store variety and cost a little more but they WORK.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2011, 10:36:23 PM
John just sent over some more picts- after all of the days efforts!!  We will be building the back behind the rear axle untill we will no longer need the center string and plumb bobs---then we will see if we can get the frt nose piece ON and the Canopy cut open---before we do any more than hard tacks up front.  It would be good to know if we can get the ole girls dress on---we hope it fits like LYCRA!!  lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2011, 10:43:38 PM
JEEEEZZ I am spastic tonight----I guess I didn't leave enough with the Mayor in impound :cheers:

2 more


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 25, 2011, 08:29:29 AM
"That's not for the claustrophobic, is it?"

Funny that you mention that, a buddy of mine was really intrested in joing the team with one of his really strong A engines from a pull truck---untill he crawled in the RATICAL  with no helment---he could NOT stand the canopy pulled part way down let alone latched shut.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on July 25, 2011, 08:45:34 AM
"That's not for the claustrophobic, is it?"

Funny that you mention that, a buddy of mine was really intrested in joing the team with one of his really strong A engines from a pull truck---untill he crawled in the RATICAL  with no helment---he could NOT stand the canopy pulled part way down let alone latched shut.

 :-D :-D :-D

The build looks great!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 27, 2011, 12:11:17 AM
We had a good morning in the shop---coped seat back tubes---I think the will clear the "HYBRID" "hans type device"  2 vertical and 2 horizontal tubes---have to find the hybrid and see if it will "recess" in the seat back


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2011, 10:40:59 PM
Scrounged around to find some 1/4 plate to put in the bottom and around the nose tubes.  found some "roll ends that have some "curve" to them for $ .50 #---still cost a bundle 1/4 plate weights in at 10.25 # per sq ft  we will cut and shape with a torch and press!!  Also chopped about 18" out of the body behind the rear axel---didn't think that I could get the trailer around the house if I stretched it again!  Also bought the 1" sq tube bent in to "hairpins to make the chute tube holders out of.  picts will follow!!!!  when we get back there!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on July 30, 2011, 07:24:47 AM
Andy and I had a good bin-gineering session  clamped the oval that will be the rear of the main frame---to the weld jig to get the overall frames perspective.  the chute tubes go through the oval now we fill in between with tubing---simple right  :roll:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2011, 02:04:52 AM
Dam ---not even to the rear of the base frame and I am cutting stuff out and changing it!!! the car dropped back to 204" wb and shorter overhang --just so that I can get the car on the trailer!!  imagine ---wanting to get it to the race track :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2011, 09:48:09 AM
oh I forgot to mention another motivation was to get more weight on the rear axle with out it all being added lead---according to Sumner's formulas we need to move up from 2250# on rear axle to 2750# that is assuming the old car  I will be shooting for at least 2550# + or -.  We had 70# under the rear axle. We will use a pre-made 180# unit we have and will "trying to" add an additional 320# more.  My SWAG is that the car will come in around 3600#


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on August 02, 2011, 10:25:50 AM
Sparky, when you add the lead, how are you doing it? lead shot, or melting lead? Are you putting it in tubing?

Just curious....


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2011, 05:21:08 PM
2 ways, we use 4x4 tubing that we fill up by using 4x4 angle as a melting trough and a big rose bud---being carefull to use a big fan and stay up wind of the fumes we also weld 4" angle capps on these the "tabs" are them  either welded or bolted where we want them.

 we have also built molds using plate and cross members---ie under the rear housing then  pounded and ground these for the required clearance as needed!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 08, 2011, 09:47:34 AM
Jeez  :-Frontal Area vs DRAG

Problem solving Special construction based----the intresting side of LSR is about building to the trade offs---  I have been Noodling Exhaust

I know from previous Wanderings down the cousre---that a very rigid frame is an asset---but to build a frame that is torsionaly rigid requires properly placed tubes----that sometimes want to be in the wrong place---hence my choice of Rings so that I can move tubes around----but serving the above wishes and still be able to remove components and fit to a preconceived external shape--- :?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 15, 2011, 12:42:43 AM
another day in Paradice--B'ville salt flats USA  the reworked 608 car had a pretty good day  they are now running over 3 but about to short  maybe the will have a great rest of the week they are running beter than my best but need about 10 to run with Hammon :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on August 15, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
Sparky, It was great to finally meet you, and have a chance to chat with you!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 19, 2011, 10:18:04 AM
Industrial spying!    :-P lol

Special thanks to the Spectra crew for sharing their fuel tank "frame bridge" with me a version of that will soon appear in the new RAT over the water tank bay! 

How refresing it is --- for this sport that you can sit down with your main competitors ( like Seth, Lee and I did and share and discuss features and concepts that my help one or the other of you go FASTER!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on August 19, 2011, 07:44:44 PM
Sparky,
I know you spent some time with the 608 lakester, did you ever notice that after a run there is a big build up of salt right in front of the rear wheels? You don't see it on Seth's car and I think the difference is that Seth's car is round in section which allows the air to pass between most of the wheel/tire and the body where as the 608 car is flat sided and the air is completely restricted from going between the wheel/tire and the body. How far away from the body do you plan to make your wheels?

As Pork Pie says "It doesn't much matter how you open the hole, it is all about how you close the hole"
Pork Pie      Wendover KOA August '06

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 19, 2011, 09:25:49 PM
Rex,  I wish I could say I planned it--- but the inside of the tires will be about 33-34" inches apart, to clear the 30" dia. frt. body---what I don't know is just how wide the body will be at the rear tires  it will be tapered some, but behind the rear axle I have a water tank---if all goes well this Sunday I can give you a more definitive answer


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 19, 2011, 09:27:48 PM
Buddy, congrats on the new Grand--and congrats on the new GRAND RIDE!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 20, 2011, 08:26:11 AM
Rex,  I "think" you are right about your comparison with 77 and 608 bottoms. Bow waves off the frt of tires led me to the nose shape of the old car and the choice of the round bottom on the new.

On 4411 when we ran it as a Lakester with the tires out, it had a fairly large"sun burst" salt pattern behind the tire where the widest part of the body was real close to it.  I have read and searched a lot trying to grasp some insights as to the air flows that would have caused it :?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on August 20, 2011, 10:08:57 AM
Sparky, wish I could have sat down for a chat on the salt since we are also building a lakester. Too many people spread out over too much real estate!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: gearheadeh on August 20, 2011, 12:32:35 PM
Sparky,
I know you spent some time with the 608 lakester, did you ever notice that after a run there is a big build up of salt right in front of the rear wheels? You don't see it on Seth's car and I think the difference is that Seth's car is round in section which allows the air to pass between most of the wheel/tire and the body where as the 608 car is flat sided and the air is completely restricted from going between the wheel/tire and the body. How far away from the body do you plan to make your wheels?

As Pork Pie says "It doesn't much matter how you open the hole, it is all about how you close the hole"
Pork Pie      Wendover KOA August '06

Rex


Iam not anysort of expert nor do I have any Kudo's of Records to point at. But there is a theory I have whenever looking at successful Liner designs. There is no reason for my theory that I can point at, just a sort of straw poll of my own.
Every one looks a 2 basic things when it comes to areo(now many more with these boundary layer heat/cold ,suck/ blow things).
 
1 is frontal area
2 is Wetted area

Now Iam proposing that we think of the side profile as if the car was traveling perfectly sideways at speed!
I think this is why a traditional tank is so successful. Any cube or flat sided car has by nature a sharp radius when it changes from flat side to flat top and it is these sharp radius that are causing problems!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Rex Schimmer on August 20, 2011, 12:35:47 PM
Sparky,
My thinking and I think Dr. Goggles agrees is that there is really no need to have either of the axles on a lakester very narrow. The thought being that the tires have a pretty big volume of aero affect and when you have the wheels close to the body the tires and body can aerodynamically interact and probably not to your advantage. I have seen some CFD plots of open wheel cars where the front wheels appear to cause a low pressure area between the wheels and the body (Bernoulli effect?) and I would question if this is a desired affect.

I did take another look at your 3D CAD dwg of the rear of your car and with your pinching of the rear of the car you do appear to probably have some additional tire to body clearance depending on the wheel base you settle on.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 20, 2011, 12:44:22 PM
Rex, The "sun burst" from the 4411, exhaust, and " my precpetion" of tire bow waves led to that decision :?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 20, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
gh 'eh,
 as I understand  :-o  the flat bottom CAN give one downforce at the expense of more drag  I will be running more lead with the new car.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 21, 2011, 09:16:12 PM
Jon, and I had a tedious day in the shop. We took the mock up motor out and squared up the motor plate on the mill and droped the back of the eng another 5/8". We now will have to "nibble outer edge of the starter housing to get it in and out. This lowers the eng enough that we should be able to get a tall deck block in with out bulging the upper skin. We will have some carb sticking up though.  I feel several bingeengineering sessions wil be necessary to solve that one  :cheers:  :cheers:

We put the PG in with its 1' drive shaft. We will have to move two of the lower hoop crossmembers slightly, they are just tacked,  for the difference of the trans pans and trans mounts---we are now as low as we can get to the lower skin with out "bumping" it.  Looks like the WB will be 207" which it was on the old car  :-o strange  :?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: bucketlist on August 23, 2011, 12:14:02 AM
Sparky,
My thinking and I think Dr. Goggles agrees is that there is really no need to have either of the axles on a lakester very narrow. The thought being that the tires have a pretty big volume of aero affect and when you have the wheels close to the body the tires and body can aerodynamically interact and probably not to your advantage. ...

Rex

The book "Aerodynamics for Racing and Performance Cars" by Forbes Aird discusses this, "interference drag", and yes, the closer an outside obstruction is to the body, the greater the resulting Cd. The unstreamlined shape of the front tire creates a turbulent wake that affects air flow over the car body downstream. I wouldn't know how to guess about the rear. Probably depends on if the flow has separated into turbulence, which it might not on aerodynamic bodies. But with the turbulence from close front tires, one might not have the magic boundary layer one expects with the aero body.

I'm no expert, I read the book (over and over) and am just trying to apply what I think I learned to a slower brick.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 23, 2011, 08:18:25 AM
What drives us all crazy---there are NO Hard and fast rules---what works on a Lakester may not apply to a Liner with almost the same body---would be my guess--YMMV

I spent about an hour listening to a ROADSTER guy telling me about his two days in the tunnel with his car and about 20 perceived made up before, ideas to try, things he had made in advance. One was wheel spacers made that he could take the wheels out up to 6" inches there was an interaction between the wheel spacing and "other Mods he was trying . Things at the front of the car and on the rear influenced his final choice of wheel spacing.  IE right up against the body---

This is only to say it is all "A PACKAGE"---


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 28, 2011, 08:54:14 PM
Joey, John & I had a good day in the shop,  got the Hyprid Pro out and spread the tubes in the seat back enough for the straps to get in side and over the "HP". RE coped with our trick home made notcher--wo does it work seet with the mis matched tube  Sizes..

We will work some more  later on the cage---

We are trying to get upper rails in so that we can get the frame off the jig and see if we can get the tank around it :-o.  We took another inch of the mid plate --trying to drop the eng as much as we can so the carb will not stick up so much..  We will also run with open stacks at first just simpler and faster to get going. We are begining to get a feel for the fuel and dry sump tank shapes..


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on August 28, 2011, 09:05:35 PM
Sparky, it's sounds like you guys are making great progress.



Of course, pics would verify the progress..... :-D



Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 29, 2011, 09:11:25 AM
John, takes the picts, when I recieve them, I resize them and try to post.

I am very pleased with how far down we now have the tall deck, we will now have to put one of the raised port heads on it and see if we can get the stacks out or we will have to  raise the frame rail in the eng. bay.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on August 29, 2011, 01:15:34 PM
Jezz it is pretty evident that I reside in Beerhaven also!!! lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 01, 2011, 04:32:33 PM
Sparky, what is the width of your top two frame tubes?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 01, 2011, 10:22:21 PM
Those hoops are .120 wall 2" dom 30" in diameter---so close to 30" outside

Had a good solo day yesterday---spent nearly 6 hours coping the two bars over the helment in the cage and making a pattern for the 1/4" plate that will sereve as the top and as gussetts for the frt and rear of the cage joint.---next I will cut it out and then get a 16# sledge hammer and try to "smarten up" that dumb metal plate to the curve of the front and rear hoops  lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 01, 2011, 10:29:44 PM
Thanks, was crippled by Windows 98 at work and had issues with the pictures! Who the hell uses 98? Dont ask........................... :?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 04, 2011, 07:27:50 PM
We got the "cross Member-modified hoop" at the rear axle in today. I spent  3 beers worth of beingineering time trying to get it to tell me what to to about torsional rigidity--- from the rear axle to the eng bay---I feel more beer will be needed---(I did not recieve a clear message!!) lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: kiwi belly tank on September 04, 2011, 10:29:53 PM
Small technical detail you guys might have overlooked. I think the valve covers actually go on the heads.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 04, 2011, 10:34:43 PM
See , now I understand that you were interrogating me with the help of the truth serum in the car park at the Peppermill......... Maybe if we'd had one more you might have extracted something useful for your build....that's not saying that there's anything there, that you may not have already weedled out of someone else......You are the undisputed king of the ground-up, hands-on special construction builders....and you don't get there with your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed.

Quote
I spent  3 beers worth of beingineering time trying to get it to tell me what to to about torsional rigidity--- from the rear axle to the eng bay


You could do worse, It's been a long time since I could get our car to sit on four axle stands at once ....haven't found a floor flat enough....it'll carry a wheel getting out of the trailer.......triangulation and bulk, with the added bonus of weight.....a brutal solution.No doubt you'll come up with a solution and it won't be complicated but it will be clever........

".........that dumb country boy act works on a lot of people Bill, but not on me "

Seth Hammond Bonneville Aug 2011


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 04, 2011, 10:42:45 PM
lol---  :cheers:  :cheers:    to you and Seth!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 04, 2011, 10:45:53 PM
triangulation  :-o  :?  :-o  the problem is  those diagonals   :-P just keep wanting to go through an area that just may need to be put to a higher and better use!!! LATER


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 05, 2011, 10:10:40 PM
T-Man  the lower frame rails are 18" inside they are 1 3/4 .134

Behind the eng bay the uppers are still 2" but they are 19" inside tube to tube---photo not posted yet!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 07, 2011, 06:46:42 AM
Our electric rate chanages at 12:00 noon so I try to stop around noon and chill out and run errands in the afternoon..

I had a good morning working behind the rear axle. I measured everything many times.

One of the funnies that happend at SW---someone was ribbing me about getting my car finished and said that it didn't take me long to build something.  My reply was that "I was trying to take a little more time the first time and maybe not have to rebuild it so many times!"


  I used every clamp I had still unused and welded the back of the car that the chute tubes will go through, and installed the top tube and notched the back and centered every thing. This thing is going to be so over built in some areas it crazy--- but having changed and rebuilt the back of the old car 3 times for various reasons my knowledge base is SO much larger than before.

These LSR special construction cars are all about trade offs. Tom Burkland and I have mused several times about the trade offs--Dr. G and I were talking about what he gained by the shape they chose and what they gained--{ AERO}-- but they are very LIMITED in what other options they had about changing things around the eng, ect, ect!!

One of the reasons I decided to build and new car was the old one was limited in width for a NA car I could not clean up the headers if I wanted to.  The old car woud not have paid a very big price with log manifolds if I had decided to run turbos.  I have been looking at an old attic fan that I scronged in Texas as a floor fan and wondering if I can "Southern Eng." into a primitive
Wind Tunnel.  The area around the Axles to Body, and the Exhaust exit will be the areas with the most to be gained!!

I promise to get a camera that I can operate soon!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 07, 2011, 04:33:40 PM
T-Man  the lower frame rails are 18" inside they are 1 3/4 .134

Behind the eng bay the uppers are still 2" but they are 19" inside tube to tube---photo not posted yet!

thanks!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 07, 2011, 08:03:01 PM
Sunday's Progress:   Note the valve covers are on---lol  in the correct locatation


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Bville701 on September 07, 2011, 08:34:53 PM
Looks good Sparky.   :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on September 07, 2011, 09:09:51 PM
Wow! Such an outstanding job, I see the judges already awarded a blue ribbon! :wink:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 07, 2011, 11:57:40 PM
lol---  :-o southern bingenginers ne'ds visuals for gussies


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 11, 2011, 06:48:33 PM
I have had a GOOD solo week---all of the longerons are in and tacked, she is straight, square & plumb!!

The hard part is to come --- keeping her that way while installing the diagonals and gussies and finish welding it!!

John was feeling under the weather today ---so no picts  sorry

will buy a camera when I get back from WOS I will be reunited with "Rose", I am to drive for Skip for some test runs!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 11, 2011, 09:09:31 PM
Pictures? Oh yeah, I remember :-D

For the record, I got my lower rails tacked to the jig, pictures to come shortly :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 18, 2011, 09:42:21 PM
John and I started the removing the bulkheads---got one out will go for the second one this week---drilled out lots of rivets!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 19, 2011, 06:13:03 PM
John took some picts while I was in the "tank" Sunday


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 19, 2011, 06:15:28 PM
Looking good. Sure looks a lot like a previously mentioned liner :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 19, 2011, 06:48:41 PM
......and lastly we have Billy from Phoenix modelling the new Salt Talks T, give him a round of applause people..... :-D :-D :-D.

ps. does that take quarters?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: theazoldcrow on September 19, 2011, 07:02:45 PM
 :cheers:  Dr.,,,,,NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 19, 2011, 08:16:53 PM
ROTFLMAO   :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 19, 2011, 09:13:20 PM
I mentaly scrubbed that last shot out of my brain.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 19, 2011, 10:04:26 PM
Why---the CLEVAGE BROS. weren't present   :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 20, 2011, 12:39:49 AM
Why---the CLEVAGE BROS. weren't present   :-o

Yeah but they were ready to perform!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 20, 2011, 10:34:59 AM
lol  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: fredvance on September 20, 2011, 10:45:41 AM
STOP CRACK!! :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 22, 2011, 02:42:38 PM
Sparky, can you tell my about the trans setup you use? Or point me to a thread with that info if it has been posted? I heard you speak of it a little.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Glen on September 22, 2011, 02:47:31 PM
Butt crack putty


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 22, 2011, 03:20:41 PM
I am planning on running a ( PG/GV) a powerglide with a Gear Vendor with my small M/T 24.5 tires
it comes of the truck a little bit slow but does not break loose . I so far only drive it as a 3 spd  I have not gotten brave enough to split shif low.  What I love about it I never have to lift and if I shift at 8000 if puts me right back in the heart of my power band 6250 and peak power out the back 6900


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Peter Jack on September 22, 2011, 04:48:25 PM
I believe it's a converterless glide isn't it Sparky?

Pete


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on September 22, 2011, 04:52:28 PM
Thats what I was thinking he said PJ


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 22, 2011, 05:22:01 PM
yes, convertless Shorty glide with a 1' drive shaft  radiator in a box, fuel and dry sump tank will be in frt of the eng,  water storage tank that can be converted to ice behind rear axle  this will let us "play" with the CG/CP- with the batteries, weight, and tail feathers to get the CG/CP where we want it.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 24, 2011, 07:31:30 PM
Wow do we have our work cut out for us :-o---will take MANY 30 packs of Bingeenginering time  ---just because you can get a big guy in the space  in means you have to be CREATIVE  in getting stuff like shifters and such in there----wow


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on September 24, 2011, 09:31:08 PM
Sparky

Please explain this tranny to me- is this something you converted yourself, or are they made converterless?

It sounds like it would be great in certain applications, and I just traded Hans Blom out of an adapter for an automatic behind a Flatcad......


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 24, 2011, 10:48:25 PM
We just run a circle track pump drive and a flexplate coupler which comes with the TCI kit, others make them---on the big rat I endend up having to go to a HD billet---

the converters keep them straight---I am going to explore driving it off a conventional fly wheel so as not to give up the GYRO effect on the rear of the crank.  you can run a valve so that you can drive it off---some guys do---we just yank it in low when we are up to about 25-30 mph---we launch in 4x4 low and the rev limiter hits about 35 mph ---we are gone before then


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: desotoman on September 25, 2011, 12:05:01 AM

I am going to explore driving it off a conventional fly wheel so as not to give up the GYRO effect on the rear of the crank. 


Sparky,

Back in 1972 I built my first boat and used a Velvet Drive transmission, with a 6-71 Blown Big Block. The Velvet Drive used a thick plate that bolted onto the flywheel. It had splines and springs to act as shock absorbers when you dropped the trans in gear.

In 1978 we decided to build a new boat but use the same motor except this time put a Turbo 400 behind the motor. At the time Art Carr made a input shaft for the Turbo 400 that would mate to the Velvet Drives flywheel plate. So that is what I used with a standard, and then later Aluminum Flywheel. Never had a problem with the unit and I used to River race the boat all the time, and full throttle shift at 7000 from second to high.

I am sure they have come up with better stuff than that, but if not you might try Art Carr if they are still in business.
At least it will give you an idea of what can be done.

Tom G.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 25, 2011, 09:19:08 AM
Thanks Tom,

I have had bearing issues on the rear main that concerend me---the lack of rotating mass is the only thing that is different---there is much less to try to keep the crank flange straight and "fight" any hormonics that might start.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 25, 2011, 09:18:30 PM
John and I had a pretty good day---we now have all of the bulk heads out and the reinforce ban off the tank!

caught the HF spot weld drill on sale for under $5.00  John says tha work better than the ones he paid $ 29.00 for.!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on September 25, 2011, 09:25:40 PM
Sparky, I think we need to take up a collection, and get you a camera! :wink:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 25, 2011, 11:08:45 PM
John brought his  :-D !


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on September 25, 2011, 11:11:11 PM
inside


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 25, 2011, 11:44:58 PM
Sparky, I think we need to take up a collection, and get you a camera! :wink:

No, don't do that ........I'm organizing it, it will be coming in the mail.

I owe him.....and I want to see the pictures.......

EDIT: done, standby Bill........


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on October 10, 2011, 07:14:56 AM
you guys don't owe me any thing but to keep posting and running  what a joy it is to see guys who are having FUN share their TOTAL LSR adventure lumps bumps and bruises--- for all to see--- I am enjoy the journey---keep going

Oh by the way  I am in Texas to pickup the "AA Rat' with his new carb---this will be a first for me running a carb---Marvin has promised to show me the "features" :?  that make this carb what it is  :-P


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on October 13, 2011, 10:15:35 AM
Wow,  do I now have a better appreciation for resplining axles using old 9" Fords as cores  just because they have the right bolt circle and the right bearing does it mean they are "EASY"  the cores I found with 5x5 bolt patterns had HORRIBLE run out  spent several hours with a lathe geting them wihin usable spec's before we resplined them---but LEARNED A ton!! 

This morning in Lubbock where I up some Irrigation pipe 7'  3" used .053 for pilots and a 9' piece of 6" .053 new drop for my Chute tubes---Bob Stroud says order now to beat the first of the year price increase!!!  All of these will be cut to length for pilot and mains as needed.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: floydjer on October 13, 2011, 10:42:25 AM
Sparky, What are you using to spline the shafts ? Rota-Broach?  Indexing head ?  We have to know these things !  JB


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Peter Jack on October 13, 2011, 11:31:54 AM
Just saying...................at one shop I worked at we resplined quite a few Ford axles. It was a pretty simple operation but the problem came when the splines twisted off in the rear end under any sort of abuse, ie: racing. We ended up discontinuing the process and just using aftermarket axles which were available in any length and spline you wanted at what turned out to be a relatively reasonable price.

Pete


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on October 13, 2011, 07:40:24 PM
We were using an indexing head---the thing uses a hirizontal mill with air switches for shuttle and rotary signals  you are right after the fact we found out we can buy "blanks" for less than a $100.00  That will be the future plans.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 07, 2011, 08:25:31 AM
Woody is running his "evaluation" to see if it is worth the effort to try to raise the back of the car 1.5-2" so that we can stay with the 24.5 tires instead of going to the 28" tires for the rake.  We really need to stay with the smaller tires if we can for gearing reasons.  It is worth the wait and ensuing effort if there is a difference---

-"I think"  but as Saltfever says data beats an opinion!!!  :-D :-D  waiting for Woody---we should know this week!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on November 07, 2011, 06:52:12 PM
Woody's stuff is pretty neat. I'm curious to see what his conclusions are.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 09, 2011, 09:48:43 PM
here's to "that ol'e lady" Ms. Fletcher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76LbvnoIDkE


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 15, 2011, 11:52:46 PM
Woody is trying to change the name of the new car----he keeps refering to it as the Thud Spud  :roll:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 16, 2011, 10:16:36 AM
Small strange little world we live in! 

Last night at a meeting a man came up to me and said, " I am Capt. Russ Whittenburg,  I met your wife the other night at the PotLuck and she said you race.  I use to club  race what kind of racing do you do?  I said LSR. What is LSR?  On the B'ville salt flats.  What kind of car?  Lakester. What is that?  One of those long skinny cars with the tires on the outside.  I want to see it.  Well I sold the old car I am building a new one out of a ferry tank out of a F105B.

And he says " When I was a young pup, fighter jockey in Germany I use to chase Thunderchiefs, those things sure couldn't turn much but they were plenty fast going straight, I couldn't catch them!
We called them Thuds.

Well maybe Woody is on to something, I dream about building something that can't be "caught".

Thud Spud does have a certain ring to it.  lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on November 16, 2011, 11:10:12 AM
"Thud Spud does have a certain ring to it.  lol"

Me thinks it sounds better than Sparky's Tater!  :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 16, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 18, 2011, 08:27:35 PM
Coping  flat angle diagianols are a B----


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on November 19, 2011, 09:55:36 AM
Coping  flat angle diagianols are a B----

Tell me about it! Working on that myself!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 19, 2011, 10:25:39 AM
Well if all goes well I should be able to know if I will fit in this thing Sunday night.  I put i tacked in the diags on the left side yesterday.  Should get in the right side today, and planning on fitting and tacking the 1/4 plate that will be the seat bottom Sunday, and tacking a 6" X12" strap to simulate the fire wall for the back of the helment.  but when I climbed in last night---I think we will be going on a diet or back to biengineering the diagonals---GOD forbid we have to go to a designated driver :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Elmo Rodge on November 19, 2011, 10:29:36 AM
Coping  flat angle diagianols are a B----

Tell me about it! Working on that myself!
That's where the aforementioned PVC tubing comes in handy. Sometimes I even use telescoping tubing. That way I can hack away indiscriminately and just slide the ends out to fit. Again, this just gives me a good visual reference so I don't waste a lot of the more expensive stuff.  :roll: Wayno


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on November 19, 2011, 10:39:47 AM
Well if all goes well I should be able to know if I will fit in this thing Sunday night.  I put i tacked in the diags on the left side yesterday.  Should get in the right side today, and planning on fitting and tacking the 1/4 plate that will be the seat bottom Sunday, and tacking a 6" X12" strap to simulate the fire wall for the back of the helment.  but when I climbed in last night---I think we will be going on a diet or back to biengineering the diagonals---GOD forbid we have to go to a designated driver :-o

5'9" 165 at your service  :cheers:

Try this thread on the HAMB for some great tips for coping tubes. A good refresher and some good tips!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542447&highlight=cope


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Peter Jack on November 19, 2011, 11:33:19 AM
Check out reply #45 and #47 to see how I do it when I don't use the bandsaw or the mill.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4165.45.html

Pete


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on November 19, 2011, 11:40:55 AM
Check out reply #45 and #47 to see how I do it when I don't use the bandsaw or the mill.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4165.45.html

Pete

Yup, that thread is another great resource! I like the line drawing of the one I posted helps newbies imagine how it works. Sneaking up on the compound miter of my helmet hoop as we speak.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 19, 2011, 12:01:36 PM
I am learing to use the chop saw and I am getting where I can do single plane fairly good. Where I am running into problems is this darn tapered Hoop-de-do shape I have chosen---lol nothing is parallel or perpendicular


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on November 19, 2011, 12:29:21 PM
Yup, thats where I am taking my time sneaking up on my hoop. Same as yours tapered, at an angle etc.........I found last night after a few minutes that my center to center was off a touch more than 1/8" making one side a little loose. Time for leverage and re-fit.

Any new pictures?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Glen on November 19, 2011, 01:41:00 PM
most welders have a wrap around template for cutting the proper fish tail on pipe / tubing Mark it with chalk and cut away. Check with your local welding supply .


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Glen on November 19, 2011, 01:48:36 PM
google  tube cutting templates  free
Several available. worth looking into


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on November 19, 2011, 02:15:31 PM
Don't forget this thread: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,7714.0.html  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 25, 2011, 11:55:54 AM
More Salvage Yard Art  :-D  obtained from Summner this time--- Summner is not using the back of some tip tanks he has.  I could only get one in my my wifes car (under DURESS)  he is bring the other in Jan.  I plan on using this for the nose extension to hopefully decreasse the size of the bow wave as I may have to slightly narrow the frt. axle to be able to fair all of it. The rear "inner tire plane" comes into play!!

Whoops forgot to mention we would remove the fins---WE may have to rethink the name of the car---Road Kill comes to mind!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stan Back on November 25, 2011, 12:42:25 PM
Duhh --

Whatsa tip tank?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on November 25, 2011, 01:44:43 PM
That tank tips should make a real nice nose!

Hmmm, wonder if you could use one complete with fins, for the rear of the tank, and have the exhaust exit from the center of it?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 25, 2011, 01:46:34 PM
Some aircraft have wing tip tanks that do not ride underneath the wing, they are attached to the end of the wing  the part that Summ still has is asymmetrical, he is going to use "parts of" them to cover the side tanks on his lakester


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 25, 2011, 01:50:46 PM
you could if you were willing to change the frame behind the axle and built a new 25 gal. water tank that sits behind the rear axle that is where we4 would love to have it---may be too lazy to do that---we are considering having a rear diffuser that looks very similar to that on the bottom rear


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Glen on November 25, 2011, 04:32:47 PM
That's a bit over 225 pounds of water sloshing around behind the rear axle, tail waging the dog. I don't think that's what I would want.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on November 25, 2011, 05:59:35 PM
Woody is running his "evaluation" to see if it is worth the effort to try to raise the back of the car 1.5-2" so that we can stay with the 24.5 tires instead of going to the 28" tires for the rake.  We really need to stay with the smaller tires if we can for gearing reasons.  It is worth the wait and ensuing effort if there is a difference---

-"I think"  but as Saltfever says data beats an opinion!!!  :-D :-D  waiting for Woody---we should know this week!  :cheers:

Any updates on what Woody did, or is it 007, top secret stuff? :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on November 25, 2011, 06:41:18 PM
Buddy, we have done some baseline tests. Now we are working out what changes we want to try! You know, like which 3 or 4 out of the 5,321 that we all want to know about! That would be 15,321 with the golf ball dimples!  :-o
Here's a couple of samples - stay tuned!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on November 25, 2011, 08:53:50 PM
Cool!

Now, I don't even pretend to understand aerodynamics, but I keep reading that the trailing edges are as important as the leading edges-or, as I believe Pork Pie(?) put it, "how you close the hole."

Based on that, wouldn't a design besides a squared off tail be better? I know Sparky mentioned using the piece from Sumner, so maybe this is a preliminary design?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Buickguy3 on November 25, 2011, 10:42:25 PM
  Looks a little like the Salt Cat ll
   Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 26, 2011, 12:01:41 AM
its also a rear eng lakester with four tires and a completely enclosed body?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: PorkPie on November 26, 2011, 03:23:46 PM
Doug, your Salt Cat is totally different by the airflow concept.....

Woody used for the simulation the body shape which I had done as a concept for Sparky...

About a other rear end for the lakester....have no idea in the moment what Sparky got here in his mind...but he will tell me

The current rear end will "close the hole" very well.

Also  a idea which Sparky wrote, not too long ago, to give the rear end a little bit more ground clearance, will be a good idea....it will eliminate a airflow interference (hope this is the right translation of the German word)which I can see on the simulation picture, around the rear axle.

There is also a second front end concept with a integrated wing, which would change the airflow picture to the simulation from Woody.

The way how the front end will be at last, is a question, how (airflow) clean will be the front axle.....necessary for the concept is, that the wheels got covers on the out and inside to reduce the air resistance....the highest percentage on the drag at a lakester racer comes from the free turning wheels and the axle which sticks out of the body.

To use a more narrow axle on the rear means not in same time a lower drag....if the airflow can go clean between the rear wheels and the body shape the drag will maybe lower at last.....it all depends on the overall design concept....important is, that the airflow can run along the body shape with the lowest number of "interruption".

The concept I done for Sparky was created to the "possibility" of his workshop.......



  Looks a little like the Salt Cat ll
   Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Glen on November 26, 2011, 04:27:15 PM
Look at the #77 Hammond lakester , it has very clean lines and have added cannards to the front and are expermenting with different vertical stabilize designs. Both have helped with several runs well over 300 mph.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on November 26, 2011, 05:03:07 PM
Look at the #77 Hammond lakester , it has very clean lines and have added cannards to the front and are expermenting with different vertical stabilize designs. Both have helped with several runs well over 300 mph.

I noticed the cannards that showed up on Seths car. I would love to hear the thought behind this.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: jl222 on November 26, 2011, 05:31:19 PM
  Check out the axle fairings on Frank Lockhart's lakester [1930s]?

  Old film footage....Bonneville general chat.


           JL222
  

    


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 26, 2011, 09:19:00 PM
Thanks PP,
 the limiting factor is what I am willing to try to construct. I bought this tank 10 years ago from a salvage yard in Plainview Texas and when I decideted to put the Liner on hold and for sure build another lakester I was inspired by Al's "Betsy" and Mike's "AckAttack". 

PP has helped with his counsel and insights, several of the "features" are his---

Woody has run a preliminary CFD---and we have explored several tweaks and  we have decided on what to run CFD, the choices he and I have made--it is still in the works we have our fingers crossed, it looks like my decision to sell the old car and build a new one may bear FRUIT, IE a higher speed with the same Eng!!! We are trying to get some down force with out to big of a DRAG penalty---ah the LSR trade offs :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: John Burk on November 27, 2011, 02:28:14 AM
For canard wings low drag comes with an aggressive profile , reasonable taper , as long and slender as strength allows and not too close to the ground . I chose NACA , 63-021 , 2:1 taper , 7:1 span per side to average cord length and 2 ft up . I've been told that drag is much higher with 1 ft of ground clearance . Drag to down force can be pretty low .


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 27, 2011, 09:04:37 AM
When you study and compare the two nose shots you can see why Woody suggests a new nose and hence Summ's backyard contribution to the cause!!

I also guess that is why Ack's liner chose that nose it is fairly consistent and is probably not to "twitchy" to slight angle of attack variations!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 28, 2011, 04:01:58 PM
Geez  it cost almost as much to Stop as it does to Go----

Ordered my Christmas from Bob Stroud today---whew  I hope I feel a real good TUG when it deploys so that if reminds me of how necessary they are lol


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on November 28, 2011, 05:18:39 PM
Sparky we concentrate on go so much and forget about the whoa!  :-o Couple trap doors and you can drag your feet!  :-D

Check your mail - I am sending you my latest mental organisms! (<= Just in case Mr Wordsmith is watching! :evil:)


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on November 30, 2011, 08:51:21 AM
they are LSR pron alright  :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on December 01, 2011, 01:02:16 AM
WELL well well, I am no longer a Miller 250 Virgin, I have a unit that is about 12 years old---we had tried it when it got here and didn't like it ---it just welded differently that the 210 Iron Man Hobart I have had for about 10 years---finally I called my buddy JT--ie Jerry Foster in Dallas and he andsered some questions for me---low and behold--turned the wire speed range switch and was able to get it to settle down---When Joey was here Tuesday we played with some settings to get the Hottest settings we can control with .120 wall tubing---we are now begining to notiece the small nuance's are already liking this thing---the 210 now has .023 wire in it and we have .035 in the 250---life is good---it will get MUCH better when I get through with coping the diagonals and we can get the car off the weld jig and ROLL it a round on the floor to finish welding it!!! :cheers:

Santa will bring lots of supporting parts for Christmas


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on December 01, 2011, 06:18:20 AM
Sounds like fun, Sparky!

Gotta love Santa....


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on December 01, 2011, 08:20:15 AM
actually Linda---the parts check signer in the most revered member of the household  :-)


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on December 01, 2011, 08:54:05 AM
Barb, in my household!

Hmmm, why is Santa always a man on TV? Lol!

Your project looks and sounds like it's coming along great! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on December 11, 2011, 03:07:13 PM
Woody and I had a great visit this morning via phone---we agreed that there should not be any more needed changes to the major frame members.  The bay between the rear axle and the eng will not have any diagonals for a while as we are still exploring the exhaust placement. We are taking a Christmas break but we should have the frame off the jig by mid Jan and rolling around on the floor doing the final welding.

Then on to the most  "exciting"  :roll: part of LSR, bracket racing  :cry:  making bracket after bracket to mount everthing  but that is one of the joys of Special Construction "packaging".


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on December 11, 2011, 03:36:09 PM
Sparky, do you plan on having it on the salt in 2012?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on December 12, 2011, 03:50:59 PM
That is our goal---we have one advantage---we are not having to "bingeineer" as much this time---and that is a good thing  we are all OVERWEIGHT and will need to slim down---thank goodness not to SSS profile!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on December 12, 2011, 04:15:59 PM
Yeah, yeah -- but just think how lousy it'd sound if I gained a bunch of weight.  They'd have to call me "Seldom Seen Lard-butt". :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: interested bystander on December 12, 2011, 09:23:34 PM
38 flattie,

I'm a BIG fan of yours, especially after you whipped all the Road Runners @ the GoKart track, BUT . . .
dontcha know it's bad racing etiquette to ask a racer when it's gonna be done?

It took about five years and me spending some money with the late, great Jocko Johnson when I asked that when he was building the Allison streamliner before he'd speak to me.

Big Bucks, by the way - $250.00 for a porting job on my (later) Drag News 1320 record holding Dodge CF/MR heads. (I borrowed the money from my grandmother -true story).


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: 38flattie on December 12, 2011, 09:55:15 PM
Ooops!

No, Interested Bystander, I did not know it was bad racing etiquette!

Can I blame my trespass on being a noob- us roundy-rounders don't have have that etiquette rule!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Tman on December 12, 2011, 10:07:09 PM
Ooops!

No, Interested Bystander, I did not know it was bad racing etiquette!

Can I blame my trespass on being a noob- us roundy-rounders don't have have that etiquette rule!

circle burners have ANY ettiquette? ha!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: RidgeRunner on December 13, 2011, 12:21:06 AM
Interested Bystander,

     A story went around back in the day that when Jocko was building the liner he got sick of people asking when so he put up a sign, "if you can't wait - donate".  Any truth to it?

                          Ed


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on December 13, 2011, 12:38:45 AM
geeezz  :-o  I think i will try that---well if som body just picked up the beer tab I could probabaly get more done!!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: Stainless1 on December 13, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
Sparky, buy newer beer, the new cans dont have tabs so you won't have to spend all your build time picking them up...  :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
Post by: SPARKY on December 13, 2011, 09:58:01 AM
lol  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on December 18, 2011, 03:10:24 PM
In Texas for Christmas with Grands and kids---

how inspiring Rich Fox and Blake S. are

can't wait to get back to AZ  buy some more of the new fangled beer cans SS#1 made reference to and get back to work.  I should have at least 20 hours per week for the TTS project we are almost finished with Andy's Manx buggy and then we are on to faster things!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on December 18, 2011, 03:19:51 PM
Have a Merry Christmas, Sparky!

If you get a new camera for Christmas, you could post pics of those new fangled beer cans! :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on December 18, 2011, 04:07:25 PM
Just to show you how convoluted (engineering term for perverted?) life can be some times - I am currently doing some CFD simulations for a company involving a new can lid design that should be to market in 9 months to a year. Who would have thought it could benefit LSR beyond the obvious fluid flow into the participants!   :-o :? :-o :?

I did some work for them two years ago regarding the adhesives that seals the cans & lids and they were able to get a patent so you are already getting CFD benefits in a very important aspect of your lives!!  :-D :-D

I will try to get permission later to show youse guys! So stay tuned!  :cheers:

Everyone have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on December 18, 2011, 09:58:40 PM
I have a new camera courtsey of the good Dr. G  and I have learned to use it!  Picts will follow when we have things to document!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on December 28, 2011, 09:43:06 PM
Wow ---here we go ---we get to reinvent ourselves and be whomever we wish to be!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on December 28, 2011, 11:15:07 PM
Wow ---here we go ---we get to reinvent ourselves and be whomever we wish to be!! :cheers:

Not unless you post the pictures! :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on December 29, 2011, 12:26:56 PM
WE are almost done with the Dune Buggy---we got a big scare when we created smoke but we only scorched a small ground wire before we found the culprit! Will be on the Lakester BIG TIME after the first of the year!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on December 29, 2011, 03:54:37 PM
Dune buggy?!

What class does that run in? :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on December 29, 2011, 04:03:22 PM
The way Sparky builds wheeled vehicles, it's probably for the 150mph club.

Mike


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on December 29, 2011, 10:14:07 PM
NOPE  :-D this is Andy's hunting buggy 1600 cc 1 barrel carb


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka the>>>>> Texas Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on December 29, 2011, 10:17:01 PM
NOPE  :-D this is Andy's hunting buggy 1600 cc 1 barrel carb

 :cheers: Have a Happy New Year!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on December 31, 2011, 08:52:22 PM
well I spent the day making list of parts to buy and machinist things to wish for----I am sure glad that ENCO, and the like have pictures because I do not have a very deep knowledge of what most Machinist things are called, sort of like ChiCom arithmetic.

  I finally found out that I can buy an adapter plate so that I can mount an 8" chuck to my 10" rotaty table and I need to by a couple of # 2 Morse taper,  dead centers and I can cut my splines and such with my new finds---picts to follow.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 01, 2012, 08:19:49 PM
Well in keeping with the new year I am going to try to honor Dr. G gift of the camera by posting more!!

I have taken picts of the starter housing that will have to be narrowed to clear the fh lower frame rail

Also a picture of the new Carb we will be running.  This will be our first time without EFI    :roll:  we will have to learn more that playing with fuel pressure to tune..might be hard for an Aggie to learn.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 05, 2012, 09:27:48 AM
Well in our quest for speed we may have, come up with the ultimate diet incentive  just to be able to get in the car.

We coped the rh side of the dr compartment tacked them, tried to get in.  With roll bar padding and the 20 fire suit and inner pannels it is going to be intresting to get ALL of the necessary stuff in there---well I guess that is what beer is made for-- biengeneering and noodling this stuff out!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 05, 2012, 09:25:17 PM
We recieved our number #1 Christmas package today  new chutes from Stroud a high speed and a low speed with his new launcher system that requires  a 3" and a 6" tube


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 05, 2012, 09:28:15 PM
We recieved our number #1 Christmas package today  new chutes from Stroud a high speed and a low speed with his new launcher system that requires  a 3" and a 6" tube

Pictures or it did not happen! :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on January 07, 2012, 02:33:33 PM
Is it spring or pneumatic launch on the 3" Sparky?

This is what I made for my 3" spring launch so the spring is supported for full travel.

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w278/jonra23/564275c9.jpg)

The hose clamp is only temporary for testing in my back yard.


Cheers
Jon


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 09, 2012, 11:24:27 PM
Jon, thanks for the post havent gotten there yet!

The Buggy is out of the shop and that side is picked up and cleaned up. will soon have a chassis for final welding.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on January 10, 2012, 06:17:26 AM
You are so far in front of me Sparky, I'm only making components & mocking them up on a build table inside profile cutouts, frame design is still happening to suit.

Cheers
Jon


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 10, 2012, 06:49:09 AM
Jon,  it seems like only yesterday, that I was out in the shop with circles of plywood and some tubing, and a tape measure trying to see if we can get in ---we will be testing big time today, firesuit and hement to see if we can STILL get in and out  :-o---there are several ways to build a car---my mind works the old school way.

line up the major components on the shop floor, to see the length necessary, add a little for saftey play with the pvc tubing to see where the frame rails can pass by the eng best, and then spend lots of time on graph paper with rulers pencils and a compass to  try to work out the design. then as I build I try to see what the car is giving us places for pumps and fire bottles, ect ect ect  I wish I were more of a computer guy so that I could use solidworks that seems to be a great way to get one off parts made just transmit the file to the water jet guy, go pay, and pick up your part.  They shop would stay MUCH cleaner that way.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 10, 2012, 06:56:02 PM
This is what I was trying to describe over on the tube bender thread.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 10, 2012, 08:05:31 PM
Man, you are DEEP inside that cage.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Ron Gibson on January 11, 2012, 09:11:11 AM
Sparky
  Make sure you can get out with your HANS on and all the steering components in place.
  That is why John and Tim retired the Speedway liner. It was going to take major mods to be able to use the HANS.

Ron


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 11, 2012, 10:14:20 AM
I will, we have tried in the past, the steering will completely swing up--thanks for the reminder

--I think that there need to be some leeway with the hans rule:
We are building our cage with 2" total  SIDE TO SIDE, less than 1" vertical, the helment rest on our chest.  We made the cage deep and tight so that we can protect our hands, when we went to a 9 point harness we were cautioned to put the controls CLOSE because we would not be able to move nearly as much. The sides are very tight to our hips legs and upper arms.  Other than a FOAM insert seat I have tried to build a driver area as safe as my repeated questions to a lot of people that are in the know.  I will use the hybrid---in Skips Liner it added about a minute of time to being able to get out and added NOTHING in that car.  It may possibily add something to mine but I havent recoginized it yet.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 11, 2012, 11:22:41 AM
I too am working on protecting the hands in a different manner. Are you concerned about breaking a wrist on that front hoop if something should happen?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on January 11, 2012, 01:29:15 PM
Regarding hand and wrist protection, under the new rules and I am sure that Sparky is aware of them you have literally multiple restraints on your arms, wrist and legs. I help Steve Nelson with his lakester and with the new strapping for the legs, the wrist/arm restraints and the Hans type device, Steve uses one that is a head/helmet devise that uses straps and a shoulder harness that is SCTA approved and much easier than the composit Hans type device for getting in and out, anyway with all of this restraining it took us about 20 minutes the first time we tried to get Steve strapped into the car! With practice it got down to around 5 minutes. So it is very important to have these devices available when you start deciding where things like the steering wheel, gear shift, brake handle, chute release etc are going to be located as your hands are going to have a pretty limited range of movement.


Sparky, I am with you regarding construction methods, I missed the "computer revolution" when I was doing engineering and am still pretty much of a "pencil CAD" engineer. I do make a pretty detailed 1/4 scale dwg of what I am going to build but after that it is fab and fit and make drawings of detailed parts as I see them needed. My son is in engineering at Chico State and is pretty good at Solid Works and I should probably make him do some drawings and assemblies as he is going to be the driver and probably do most of the welding. Just need to finish the wiring in my new shop, paint the floor, move my office out to it and then I can get started.

Rex


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on January 11, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
There are a lot of good points here. One thing that is over looked that in 99% of all vehicles involved in a crash the driver will need help getting out of the vehicle. A lot of things come into play as the driver has his bell rung, he is in a hurry to get out and panics, If he is upside down the problem becomes much harder to deal with and very hard to release belts. There can be pieces of the vehicle in the way that adds to the escaping from the cockpit. I have been on the crash truck at the lakes and Bonneville for over 20 years and only a few times has the driver been out of the car. When there is a fire everything changes and again panic can set in. These are things that the driver must practice during the build, after the build to assure you know where everything is located. Testing at home in a dark garage in full dress should be done often. In many cases things will need to be changed and repositioned to allow the driver to ease of getting out.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 11, 2012, 02:26:36 PM
Like when Uncle Jesse makes Daisy and the Duke Boys learn how to rebuild a carb blindfolded!  :-D Never know when Boss Hog is going to shut off the lights!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on January 11, 2012, 04:09:12 PM

Sparky I am sure you know but the swing up steering cannot be connected to the canopy . The Hanna-Moore streamliner and others have had to change that on their cars. 2011 rule book pg.21 pp 2.M Canopies


I will, we have tried in the past, the steering will completely swing up--thanks for the --I think that there need to be some leeway with the hans rule:
We are building our cage with 2" totaS SIDE TO SIDE, less than 1" vertical, the helment rest on our chest.  We made the cage deep and tight so that we can protect our hands, when we went to a 9 point harness we were cautioned to put the controls CLOSE because we would not be able to move nearly as much. The sides are very tight to our hips legs and upper arms.  Other than a FOAM insert seat I have tried to build a driver area as safe as my repeated questions to a lot of people that are in the know.  I will use the hybrid---in Skips Liner it added about a minute of time to being able to get out and added NOTHING in that car.  It may possibily add something to mine but I havent recoginized it yet.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Hooley on January 11, 2012, 08:41:14 PM
Sparky,
            I just found your build a couple of days ago and  got caught up today.  This is so interesting to watch you think it out and build it where we can watch. You are an inspiration to us all with your ingenuity and speed at which you work. Keep the story coming.



                           Hooley


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 11, 2012, 09:58:42 PM
SPEED   :?  :-o  Hooley surely you jest!!  but remember,  I virtualy rebuilt the old car three times before we got it to go straight with no drama.

Glen, good point, on the old car we had a gas strut on the canopy with a small bungee cord to lift the steering when we opened the canopy.  The canopy had a small bracket that held the steering down secure when the canopy was secured.

Rex, I have not read the new rules reguarding leg restraints. I will have to go find them.  My lower legs are very tight by the frame, I will have to have a strap over my upper legs to keep them from coming out as I did on the old car.

T-Man Bones heal --hands do not grow back if one gets them GROUND or GRATED off by the salt if they get between the side the car and the salt.

Hopefully I have responded to all comments.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 11, 2012, 10:33:16 PM
And chicks dig scars! :-D At least thats how I lived my life :wink:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 11, 2012, 10:37:00 PM
I hear you on the head & neck thing Sparky, I'm in the same boat. 2" sideways, 1" up, 0" back & helmet in chest. Even if my head fell off, it couldn't get out of there. I'm going to use DJ's set-up, thats the only way I could get in the car & then see out once I get there. I also have swing up steering.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 11, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
KiWi---you have to be able to get your helment OFF everything but your head or you will BUZZZ your eyballs


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 11, 2012, 11:13:59 PM
KiWi---you have to be able to get your helment OFF everything but your head or you will BUZZZ your eyballs

read John Force's account of his first time with the ISP padding system. No BUZZ for the first time in his career. Yes, written in blood, this revelation came after Eric Medlin died.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 11, 2012, 11:18:00 PM
I haven't been buzzed in years!!
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on January 11, 2012, 11:42:21 PM
I hear you on the head & neck thing Sparky, I'm in the same boat. 2" sideways, 1" up, 0" back & helmet in chest. Even if my head fell off, it couldn't get out of there. I'm going to use DJ's set-up, thats the only way I could get in the car & then see out once I get there. I also have swing up steering.
  Sid.

  Kiwi...DJ's helmet straps don't have a quick release, so helmet has to stay on untill someone can release the straps.

  This restricks movement on exit.

  Wish I had know before buying :roll:

         JL222


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 12, 2012, 07:31:15 AM
I can do it with the system on. I checked out Steve Walters DJ set up & tied my helmet down to make sure it will work.
I'm going from strapped to standing up in the car in 10 seconds. Thats leg restraints, steering, the works but canopy not done yet.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on January 12, 2012, 10:02:18 AM
I hear you on the head & neck thing Sparky, I'm in the same boat. 2" sideways, 1" up, 0" back & helmet in chest. Even if my head fell off, it couldn't get out of there. I'm going to use DJ's set-up, thats the only way I could get in the car & then see out once I get there. I also have swing up steering.
  Sid.

Sparky and Sid, we use the DJ, same position as you, lying down, chin on chest, 1 inch or less front, back and sides.  Yep you touch the sfi roll bar padding and it uncages your eyeballs.  I guess I would be interested in seeing what the ISP padding is and if it is legal for SCTA.  Anything that would let you touch and not translate the vibration would be a huge improvement.


  Kiwi...DJ's helmet straps don't have a quick release, so helmet has to stay on untill someone can release the straps.

  This restricks movement on exit.

  Wish I had know before buying :roll:

         JL222

I guess we haven't had that problem with the DJ, it is the least restrictive and flexible use unit out there.  I guess in the sit up position the straps are shorter, but when your driving position has your chin on you chest the straps are loose enough to not restrict movement after you sit up.  Releasing the chest strap should loosen the restraints.  We didn't get the opportunity to use it "real world" in the liner yet but will be doing a bunch of garage practice before Speedweek.  Yes, that means we haven't had the time to practice exit with it in the liner, but we had absolutely no issues with it in the Bockscar


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Hooley on January 12, 2012, 10:04:05 AM
Sparky,
            No pun intended about speed of build. Your first post was March 2011. That hasn't been very long to me. Go forward, Go fast.

                               Hooley


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 12, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
I dont have any problem supporting my head away from the structure long enough to make a run. The liner is so long that I expect minimal ground vibration through the 30" Mickeys but the only way to know for sure will be when we start running.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Stan Back on January 12, 2012, 11:56:04 AM
I believe we experienced engine vibrations on our first runs until I learned to keep from putting my head back.  Not many of us are using rubber-inserted motor mounts.  

My blurred vision was also caused by the view switching from one of the bifocal lenses to the other and back and forth.  I got a pair of monofocal(doc?) lenses deeply tinted for the next year.  Worked great especially in a record return run . . . at least 'til I tried to read the gauges.  (Don't need no stinkin' gauges!)

Stan


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 12, 2012, 12:29:32 PM
SB  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 12, 2012, 02:36:36 PM
Can anyone point me in the direction of a supplier for some very aggresive sinter iron
2.5' x 11" DRUM brake SHOESfor a Ford 9"?  I am not having much luck online or inperson here in Phoenix,


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 12, 2012, 04:16:43 PM
We made a slight change to the back of the car Tuedsay to allow for a little more up slope on the tail behind the rear axle for getting on and off the trailer to do so we had to cut several tacks  just spent 2.5 hrs getting everyting with inside of an 1/8".  Ran another string line through the center of the car as we cant drop plum lines from the overhead center line.  Going to eat lunch and go see if I can tack it with out drawing it out of plumb.   :-P


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on January 12, 2012, 09:17:21 PM
Why sintered iron Sparky? We ran a Corvette special during the sixties with sintered iron linings in the drums and as I remember they were all over the place until they got well warmed up. This isn't a characteristic that I'd like in a fast Bonneville car. I'm sure that one of the performance brake lining companies could come up with something that would cause less excitement on shutdown and be at least as effective. The sintered iron also has a real appetite for cast iron drums. You'll be replacing the drums regularly if the system works out.

Pete


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 12, 2012, 09:19:18 PM
I hear you on the head & neck thing Sparky, I'm in the same boat. 2" sideways, 1" up, 0" back & helmet in chest. Even if my head fell off, it couldn't get out of there. I'm going to use DJ's set-up, thats the only way I could get in the car & then see out once I get there. I also have swing up steering.
  Sid.

Sparky and Sid, we use the DJ, same position as you, lying down, chin on chest, 1 inch or less front, back and sides.  Yep you touch the sfi roll bar padding and it uncages your eyeballs.  I guess I would be interested in seeing what the ISP padding is and if it is legal for SCTA.  Anything that would let you touch and not translate the vibration would be a huge improvement.


  Kiwi...DJ's helmet straps don't have a quick release, so helmet has to stay on untill someone can release the straps.

  This restricks movement on exit.

  Wish I had know before buying :roll:

         JL222

I guess we haven't had that problem with the DJ, it is the least restrictive and flexible use unit out there.  I guess in the sit up position the straps are shorter, but when your driving position has your chin on you chest the straps are loose enough to not restrict movement after you sit up.  Releasing the chest strap should loosen the restraints.  We didn't get the opportunity to use it "real world" in the liner yet but will be doing a bunch of garage practice before Speedweek.  Yes, that means we haven't had the time to practice exit with it in the liner, but we had absolutely no issues with it in the Bockscar

Stainless, Speed Demon and many other cars are using the ISP padding.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 12, 2012, 09:32:18 PM
Pete,  from my experience we should for sure be able to warm them up at B'ville and ElM

I am open to sugestions on who might make something almost as good!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: gearheadeh on January 13, 2012, 03:00:38 AM
Why sintered iron Sparky? We ran a Corvette special during the sixties with sintered iron linings in the drums and as I remember they were all over the place until they got well warmed up. This isn't a characteristic that I'd like in a fast Bonneville car. I'm sure that one of the performance brake lining companies could come up with something that would cause less excitement on shutdown and be at least as effective. The sintered iron also has a real appetite for cast iron drums. You'll be replacing the drums regularly if the system works out.
Pete

I have experience along those lines as well, the linings were only worn down about 1/3 of original when the drums were way beyond max size. They both started off as new together. BUT, did it ever make a difference in stopping power   :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 13, 2012, 09:18:29 AM
That stopping power is what I am trying to increase---I have tried a stop from 225 brakes only at B'Ville  do not wish to repeat that at ElM.  :-o


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 13, 2012, 11:38:13 AM
Sparky, Why are you even considering drum brakes?? Thats dinosaur stuff!!
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on January 13, 2012, 12:21:29 PM
That stopping power is what I am trying to increase---I have tried a stop from 225 brakes only at B'Ville  do not wish to repeat that at ElM.  :-o

   With rear wheel brakes only didn't the tires just lock up and slide?

   My cousin Ed had a solid suspension Stude and in the old days [when warm up passes in other parts of El Mirage were allowed] came back and said '' I have no brakes!!' he had brakes, the tires were just sliding.
  Same thing on acceleration when sold and fuel hemi installed, couldn't touch the throttle with out wheelspin.

        JL222


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 13, 2012, 01:40:53 PM
They hide behind the tires  :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on January 13, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Modern discs with modern linings are going to be safer and give you better performance. There are several manufacturers that could give you what ever you need. I'd stay away from the sintered iron.

Pete


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: desotoman on January 13, 2012, 03:17:00 PM

   My cousin Ed had a solid suspension Stude and in the old days [when warm up passes in other parts of El Mirage were allowed] came back and said '' I have no brakes!!' he had brakes, the tires were just sliding.
  Same thing on acceleration when sold and fuel hemi installed, couldn't touch the throttle with out wheelspin.

        JL222

As far as acceleration goes your Cousin Ed must not have had the car set up right. These pictures are of the weak link of a car that ran at El Mirage with a solid mounted rearend, and 3000 HP. My point is some people's combinations work others don't, more than one way to make things work.

Tom G.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on January 13, 2012, 03:51:35 PM

  Tom...Ed's stude was a 25% setback D BFALT- A BFALT when Fogie had it and yea could have added a ton or 2 more than it had to the rear to hook up. What car did that shaft come out of? Did the same at El Mirage with our Doug Nash 2 speed input shaft before changing to an Owens with bigger shaft.

          JL222



Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on January 13, 2012, 03:55:40 PM
That stopping power is what I am trying to increase---I have tried a stop from 225 brakes only at B'Ville  do not wish to repeat that at ElM.  :-o

  Sparky...have you considered front brakes like those required now on Funny Cars?

             JL222


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 13, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
There's lots of ways to put discs on your rear, you can do it with factory stuff from the junk yard & make some caliper brackets or just buy a kit & live on soup for a month like I do. Theres lots of ex-roundy round stuff on ebay to be had cheap & you can get good pads that won't go up in smoke when you're still on them at the 7.
Or try this for size.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aerospace-Rear-Drag-Disc-Brakes-Big-Bearing-Ford-Old-/230317330679?hash=item359ffb90f7&item=230317330679&pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr
 
 Drum brakes, thats why they have "run away truck ramps" on the freeways.
   Sid.



Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: dw230 on January 13, 2012, 09:25:45 PM
+1

DW


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 13, 2012, 11:06:20 PM
stuff   :-o sticking out in the slip stream is why some go slow  :cry:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 13, 2012, 11:14:15 PM
Positive offset on the wheels so everything is behind the Moons.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on January 13, 2012, 11:21:09 PM
stuff   :-o sticking out in the slip stream is why some go slow  :cry:

  Fot those that want to go fast check out the Roklister [sp] Bennett and then Seth Hammond lakster build
around 40 yrs ago :-P

          JL222


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: dw230 on January 13, 2012, 11:40:29 PM
I begged Rich Manchen to put the exhaust under the rear end when we built the lakester. Didn't happen, his theory was that a blown engine will over come all.

DW


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 13, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
I used to tell my Mom "The Lord helps them that helps themselves, and I am trying to help him as much as I can".

  I do not have a lot of HP so I am trying to eliminate as much DRAG as I can no mater WHERE it is!!

Only time will tell if I am on the right track!  If I go faster, Then I will come up with the $ for better heads ect. ect. --- I know where to find another 300HP NA on GAS!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: dw230 on January 14, 2012, 12:02:43 AM
Sparky,

Look to 77, put the exhaust under/within the body.

Just sayin'

DW


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on January 14, 2012, 12:33:28 AM
We had the same brake issue because of our wheel pants. We will be using a brake kit from Coleman on our liner. They are floating hubs and made forIMCA modifieds. They are pretty compact and fairly inexpensive. If you are interested, I can do a cad layout for you to see if they fit within the wheel an what offset you would need.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 14, 2012, 06:29:55 AM
Thanks for your offer Rob I just need to find some brake shoes---I am happy with my choice for many other reasons  no drag and no worry about rusted stuck brakes are the two main ones!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on January 14, 2012, 10:36:22 AM
Looks like you're sticking with drum brakes so lets not try to re-engineer your car for you. :-D
I Utah & Spudaho we have Page Brake that do brake reman stuff but any quality brake reman company should be able to help you. They do a lining that is designed to survive excessive use in light trucks.
If you end up with a bonded brake lining, drill & rivet it as well, the excesive heat build up will want to delaminate them. Cut heat breaks in them, three seperate sections on the lining with 1/4" gap between them to help release the heat. Use the thickest drums you can find & drill them just like you would a disc.
Anybody remember "brake fade" ??
Back in the early 70's we ran a 4 wheel drum brake Group "E" Chrysler Pacer (Ozzy Dodge Dart-ish) in the Bensen & Hedges 500 in NZ. We learned how to make them work but we still changed them every 100 miles or so.
Racing drum brakes is probably a lost art by now.
  Sid.   


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: gas pumper on January 14, 2012, 11:46:42 AM
Thanks for your offer Rob I just need to find some brake shoes---I am happy with my choice for many other reasons  no drag and no worry about rusted stuck brakes are the two main ones!

and you can go with a nice short tire and 15" wheel with the drums.

Our experience this year on the 608 was that the big Acura Brembos were more trouble than they are worth to us. And they just barely fit in the 18" wheel.

We should be going back to nice old Ford drums too for 2012. I'm pretty sure we will not do anything special as far as linings go. Whatever Bob has up in the attic will be fine with us.

Frank


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on January 14, 2012, 01:32:57 PM
Sparky,

Look to 77, put the exhaust under/within the body.

Just sayin'

DW

 And the teardrop shaped axel fairings 8-)

            JL222


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Ron Gibson on January 14, 2012, 01:43:05 PM
  Back in the 50's & 60's, Ford and Chevy 11"ers used the same brake linings. 62, 63 & 64 Chevy police and taxis had semi metallic brakes with it optional on other models. Maybe find a set of them??? Even used, if not worn out, would probably work for you.

  I don't think it would be that hard to make your own.:-D   You can buy metallic brake blocks for big trucks and cut/reshape to fit your shoes.

There is a site (Industrial Brake and clutch Exchange) that might be able to help you. They say they do classic car parts.

I have a semi metallic high speed reduction device. It's called a "ROADSTER".

Ron


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on January 14, 2012, 08:08:15 PM
Sparky, I'm going to throw this out, and let you shoot it down! Yes, I did hear you that you just needed brake shoes!

What about an inner disc brake system like the Jaguar has? I've seen a lot of QC setups done like this.  As your diff is covered, of you have the room, it might be worth looking into.

Then again, maybe not!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on January 14, 2012, 08:57:00 PM
While that may or may not work for Sparky it's certainly an interesting idea. It would require the use of a sprint car type live axle and then the support for that could be a single strut rather than the bird cage normally used in a sprinter. This could get other minds churning. The forum works again! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on January 14, 2012, 09:39:29 PM
I can certainly see some benifits, for some vehicles.

I still have most of the parts needed..... :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 15, 2012, 07:55:51 AM
I think I finally found someone (Patterson I think) in CA that offer all types of RACING brake shoes  I will call them Monday or Tuesday.  Search racing brake shoes


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Dynoroom on January 15, 2012, 08:55:16 PM
I begged Rich Manchen to put the exhaust under the rear end when we built the lakester. Didn't happen, his theory was that a blown engine will over come all.

DW


I've heard that quote some where else before........... Maybe it was Fast Freddie.......... or Dave Davidson?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 15, 2012, 11:00:42 PM
FF probabaly said a little NITRO will overcome ALL!!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 18, 2012, 09:25:39 AM
WE have had a good week!  Andy's buggy now resides over in his car which has had an Aggie conversion  it now again hold 2 cars its amazing what one can get rid of when one is motivated.  Dave has rejoined our efforts, he and I noodled out a dry sump tank yesterday that he will build at his house, we started on the fire bottle placement but had a small clearance issue because the car owner forgot about such small things as fire bottle bracket thickness  :-o !
Joey had a good day welding while John made some lower tubes.

Then John and I made a steel run to get the 12 guage for the fire wall and 4 sticks of tubing for a roll cage for his car.

We then built the rear hoop and two side hoops for his car. He had an intresting pattern.  He built the pattern out of 1/2" electrical conduit.  His technique was to build a bend that fit the car as tight as he wished, with a little extra length on the legs. after he had a bend for each corner he then cut and joined the the legs for the perfect outside profile then we duplicated the bend angles and leg lenghts to the exact profile-----REMEMBER to compensate for the incrased width.  John bent his inside the outer wall of the car by 1" because he used 1/2 and we bent up 1 3/4 ew.  We went to great lengths to put the ew "stripe" exactly centered under the "set screw" that holds the tubing in the die---made it much easier to keep all the bend inthe same plane and it lay flat on the ground when we were through.  YEAH


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 18, 2012, 02:08:12 PM
In honor of the good Dr. G's camera gift


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 18, 2012, 02:36:34 PM
Looking good, can you describe your tank arraingment?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on January 18, 2012, 03:28:26 PM
Very nice Sparky

Are the 2 rails above the motor removable?

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 18, 2012, 04:35:42 PM
The Fuel tank natrual color fuel cell that is a 12.5 gallon cap. that we will have to plug the hole in what is now a side. we will put the fill cap, return & vent line on what was and end. We will put the course filter inside of the tank and the final filter between the fuel pump and the Pressure regulator. 

The Alum tank is the radiator in a box with its cooling water behind the rear axle.

On the other side of it will be a dry sump tank that will be rectangular holding up to 20 qts of oil. will be run with min of 12 up depending where and what eng configuration.

The upper two and the dr. side mid bar will be removable as will be the nose cone and the bottom panel behind the rear axle.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 18, 2012, 04:39:38 PM
The Fuel tank natrual color fuel cell that is a 12.5 gallon cap. that we will have to plug the hole in what is now a side. we will put the fill cap, return & vent line on what was and end. We will put the course filter inside of the tank and the final filter between the fuel pump and the Pressure regulator. 

The Alum tank is the radiator in a box with its cooling water behind the rear axle.

On the other side of it will be a dry sump tank that will be rectangular holding up to 20 qts of oil. will be run with min of 12 up depending where and what eng configuration.

The upper two and the dr. side mid bar will be removable as will be the nose cone and the bottom panel behind the rear axle.

I would have guessed opposite, must be a poly boat tank from some place like Overton's?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 18, 2012, 10:12:07 PM
Jazz  :-D Blank  I have to plug the mold hole and cut all the rest

Picts: took my handy circle cutter that I think I have picts in Special tools section and cut me a 28" circle out of 12 guage for the firewall


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 19, 2012, 01:01:42 PM
Progress is good. Thanks for the details. The brown Santa just dropped off my front axle, pics after 5 :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 19, 2012, 10:51:47 PM
I am also waiting for Brown Santa the front hubs that Mourer Machien is shipping! We will soon be doing the DREADED brackett racing---ie bracket for this brackett for that!!!! :-P


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 20, 2012, 03:25:48 PM
I am also waiting for Brown Santa the front hubs that Mourer Machien is shipping! We will soon be doing the DREADED brackett racing---ie bracket for this brackett for that!!!! :-P

Got my hubs done this week as well. Curious how you plan to mount your front axle as you can see in my last post on my thread?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 20, 2012, 08:18:51 PM
Brown Santa brought the hubs today---unwrap them Sat ---we will take picts of where we are putting the frt axle.  Ordered 4 port fuel pressuer reg. and Brake shoes today. 

Also talked to Marshal Guages today they have a guage series that are programable to some extent. I am looking at aa 30" vacum guage for the dry sump system that MAY be able to generate a signal at a predetermind setting to keep up with the HEALTH of the rings.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on January 20, 2012, 09:12:37 PM
Sparky you're cruising right along! :cheers:

The build is great-I just wish you's post a few more pics for us beginners- but I'm not complaining!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 20, 2012, 10:50:40 PM
The Thought for the day :?  Marty brought a friend of his down to see the car---Brent walked up and down and then around it---then said:

--Well it sorta reminded him of a female pleasure device :-o
Well I don't know if we will have a female driver or not but I can pretty sure guarantee you that I can name of sevrval guys that T3  (The Texas Tater) will put a smile on their face!!  and hopefully a hat on their head!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 21, 2012, 12:28:54 AM
The Thought for the day :?  Marty brought a friend of his down to see the car---Brent walked up and down and then around it---then said:

--Well it sorta reminded him of a female pleasure device :-o
Well I don't know if we will have a female driver or not but I can pretty sure guarantee you that I can name of sevrval guys that T3  (The Texas Tater) will put a smile on their face!!  and hopefully a hat on their head!!

Female? I think we have grounds for a new non-PC name for the PENETRATOR! :-D Sorry, the Rabbit is taken.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 24, 2012, 10:34:54 PM
WE had a greaat day in the shop!!

 Dave came at 8:00 am, we we worked out the particulars on the dry sump tank.  I will go go buy the steel and bend it up for our 5.5"x18"x22" tank. It took us a while to noodle out the water line we are going to run through the tank. WE will be able to continue to pre heat the eng oil with the eng water---Thank you Dave Dahlgren for the great idea!!

Joey came at 9:30m and we got the rear axle bracketts, aligned and tacked!

John, attacked the what will be come the nose of the THUD SPUD---does any one know what the paint scheme of a REAL thud Spud was---we guessed that it was baby blue on the bottom and Camo on top!!

We are thinking in terms of an athuentic paint scheme with a "BOMBER BABE" nose art!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on January 24, 2012, 11:05:10 PM
http://www.burrusspta.org/105graphics.html
http://www.burrusspta.org/105graphics2.html
One at the bottom here: http://www.vectorsite.net/avf105.html

Squadrons and logos here: http://reocities.com/Pentagon/7002/sqindex.html

Sparky, this will be one kick-Acura thud spud!  :cheers:

Now if we can just find a 20mm Vulcan cannon and a few shells ..................... no more competition :evil:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on January 25, 2012, 10:22:31 AM
Sparky, this will be one kick-Acura thud spud!  :cheers:

Now if we can just find a 20mm Vulcan cannon and a few shells ..................... no more competition :evil:

I might have a M-61 or two sitting around....  :roll:
Hey Bill, do you have nose art yet?


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 25, 2012, 10:23:32 AM
no NOSE art yet  :-o


Might have to have some nose art theeth like the Wild Weasel F105-G version---will continue to look at the OUTFIT art 


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on January 31, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
Working on inside panels for cockpit  to see if we still fit in the car---also the frt axle install


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on January 31, 2012, 04:03:42 PM
Sexy Thud Spud nose art. :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on January 31, 2012, 04:08:29 PM
Sexy Thud Spud nose art. :-D

They won't let you watch Youtube at work but you can take the time to dig THAT up!?  :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 01, 2012, 08:40:11 AM
Well in keeping with the GREEN recycling thread of this build  we journeyed to the corner of the yard that that old RATICAL curved alum. tail skins were resting. Stomped them back into some semblence of flat with the aid of a dead blow mallet.  Then we tool a skill saw and cut them to shape, slightly longer than the new pieces.  Andy brought home some reinforce patatoes plastic potato sacs that we will put some washed sand that he had left over from a previous project.--- presto mesto----shaping bags for making the dimples for our elbows in the new inner skins---picts to follow as soon as I find Dr. G's camera  :cheers:  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: floydjer on February 01, 2012, 09:22:01 AM
Sexy Thud Spud nose art. :-D

They won't let you watch Youtube at work but you can take the time to dig THAT up!?  :-D
Potato....Dig...................... :roll:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 01, 2012, 09:28:02 AM
  :roll:   :-o  LOL   :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 01, 2012, 11:17:45 PM
Things are beginning to happen sorta fast---Got the hubs from Mouer Machiene---

they are purty;   :-) look at them

We made the bulk head pattern to notch the circle I have posted earlier

We have started on the frt motor plate and this is about were the air intake will be

We have recieved notice of the brake shoes shipping and we should have a rear axle together this weekend then will have to decide on brake master cyl.

Have fitted all of the small parts for the heat exchanger and bought the 16 guage steel this afternoon for the drysump oil tank which will be 24" long 5" wide and 18" tall with a heating 20" hairpin coil in it that we will run eng water through for and oil heater/cooler  we plan on running the oil at the same temp as the eng coolant!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 02, 2012, 12:05:55 AM
Sexy scoop! So there is a use for those crappy things! I like the adaptation.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 04, 2012, 08:46:28 AM
We recieved the brake shoes Thursday so we poped the weights of the braked drums that we had the big bells cut off and took them down to Discout Tire and had them spun to see where and how much to add with the big bells removed it takes about half as much weight usually some where else.

We are off to Al Eischenbach sp.  :? car show today that has turned into sort of a LSR bash here in Phoenix---should be great times last year Foggie, FF and others showed up from CA. It was a learning experience for me I had never spent any time talking about NITRO!!!

Should be able to finish the rear axle this weekend :-D


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
have had a great week, Went to the car show Sat.  Sunday morning Andy and I cleaded the shop up before Al Eshenbach. and Ed Stuck and Brian dropped by---Roadster Guys all  Al is going to build a lakester o all things  :cheers:  :cheers:  Marty came by Sunday nightand picked up the heat exchanger ie " radiator in a box" for final weld.

Today Dave came at 8:00  we took every loose thing of the weld jig, had tacked the frame and weld fixture then strapped on an axle and prepared to roll the weld fixture outside and reveresing it in the Shop..  This is necessary so that we can slip the tank on and off the NOSE!!

"Aero" Doug Robinson dropped by at 10:00 and John came at 10:30.  We then swapped end and the moment of truth had arived:  :-o :  Will the tank fit over the frame :?  We spent the next 3 hours  triming the internal hoops and reinforcements to slide it over the hoops----wow what a relief  we were able to slide it  within 2" feet of its final resting place  we will have to remove the angle that ithe frame is tacked to to be able to slide it the last 2 feet!!!!   

All in all a great day in the Shop!!!!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 08, 2012, 01:17:39 AM
Congrats man! I got the same feeling from one helmet bar tonight!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 08, 2012, 05:11:22 AM
you ain't muckin' around are ya,....this is gonna be one mast build and one fighty mast car.....


what? :roll:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2012, 09:35:05 AM
sorry for the delay. This shot make the car nose look longer than is actually is but this is the angle I could get it all in last night.


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on February 08, 2012, 10:05:59 AM
Sparky, which end is the nose  :evil:
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2012, 12:32:33 PM
 :cheers:  This week end we saw some nose art that was on the Green Monster # 5  we think it will give our Thud Spud the approiate "Wild Weassel" look!


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on February 08, 2012, 12:54:09 PM
Looks fast already! :cheers:


Title: Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL>aka >> The Texas Tater>>> The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2012, 06:38:06 PM
Green Monster # 5---looks like the mak'ins of a "Wild Weasel"  :-o to me


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 09, 2012, 10:58:13 PM
Got all of the brake parts noodled out---low and behold---the Speedway catalog had and error and it scrambled my pea brain---seems like there was a misprint about male and female fittings and adaptors---but we will order all the brake parts Fri. am. :cheers:

We got'er done  brown Santa will be here next week with all the brake parts!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 11, 2012, 10:55:51 AM
Tomorrow will be a big day we will decide on just how much  :? of the big end to cut off---we will use the cut off parts to make the parts of the car that will seldom be removed  an upper and lower eng bay and maybe some under the rear axle we also should make more of the drivers floor.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Captthundarr on February 11, 2012, 05:58:32 PM
Man, between yous guys and Tman I'm getting alot of good ideas for our next build, whatever it will be. Diggin' the info. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 11, 2012, 06:10:47 PM
Man, between yous guys and Tman I'm getting alot of good ideas for our next build, whatever it will be. Diggin' the info. :cheers:

Man, don't take ideas from me, i am just making my schitt up! :wink: :-D

But seriously, I wish more folks would document their construction. It can only help ALL OF US!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 12, 2012, 09:20:02 PM
I had good afternoon in the shop---Andy was under the weather, when I climbed in the tank again, I got my neighbor down the street to watch out for me in case I hurt myself.  Here is some of what I whacked off!! :cheers:



Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 12, 2012, 09:37:13 PM
Tueday we will put someone inside to mark where we are going to cut the canopy


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 12, 2012, 11:56:44 PM
I like to see the progress! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 13, 2012, 12:57:12 AM
....cutting out the internal stuff had it's moments with our tank, being Aluminium and having a bit of titanium in there too they used various types of fasteners and adhesives, some of them were shall we say unpleasant when they got hot....I dunno whether some of the spars were glued in place and then riveted after the glue dried or what but there were some times whe were cutting that thing and the smoke coming off it was badddddddddd :-o :-o :-o :-o

All looks very good Bill, day after day you get stuff done, it's great to watch.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 13, 2012, 05:36:44 AM
Guys, what a joy it is to have others that have been on this journey before and those that a just watching and learning.  I encourage all to have the same frustations and joys  I had both in a short peorid of time.   Last night I could not get the tank over the frame where i need it to go.  :cry:

 Woke up 2 hours ago and woke up my wife and told her I was going to the shop---asured her that I would not use and  power tools.  It had come to me in my sleep that just because there was a seam that apeared to be on top may not mean it was.  With the help of 2 ratchet straps (the LSR bodymans friends)  I got the tank back off.  Rotated it to where the drain was on the very bottom and the seam was slightly off and tried again.

This time with 3 ratchet straps pulling on and a huge wood block and a BIG hammer  it now resides where I wanted it.  When I lengthed the cage 2" longer to help keep my arms in I didn't quite drop the frt hoop enough---you can just see where it is on the outside of the tank skin.  We have a lomg way to go but we hear the renlentless rustle of the calander pages as they turn, bringing us ever closer to SPEEDWEEK and the hoped for shake down runs and qualifying for the LONG COURSE :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: jpm49c on February 13, 2012, 08:47:58 AM
Someone?

Tueday we will put someone inside to mark where we are going to cut the canopy


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 13, 2012, 09:49:48 AM
Well either John or myself as he has offered and he is going to be the lead canopy guy.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on February 13, 2012, 10:42:22 AM
"...asured her that I would not use any  power tools."

I'll guess that's so you wouldn't be making enough noise to wake Linda or the neighbors.  So what'd you do -- you took a BFH and whapped the dickens out of the tank.  Silent hammer? :evil: :evil:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: jpm49c on February 13, 2012, 11:46:39 AM
Well i guess that would be ME.   John 
Well either John or myself as he has offered and he is going to be the lead canopy guy.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 13, 2012, 08:45:29 PM
Silent hammer?   :-P   well now that you mention it both Andy and Linda said they heard noise  :roll:

Well I was right it took four ratchett straps and slapping the tank with a not so silent hammer to get it off and it was somewhat noisy


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 14, 2012, 10:45:10 PM
Well, well, well---we finally have the tank on the frame nose---we have actually put some on into it with the RUFF inner panels---we have made a creature comfort decision.  We are going to cut out some tubes and make new ones with 1.75" that are "tweaked"  :-P to provide the max. interior space.

Old FAT boys need all the love and ROOM they can get. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 14, 2012, 10:49:03 PM
Pictures or it did not happen!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 15, 2012, 07:56:24 AM
there was not a photo opportunity---YET---we will install some "temp." brackets and drill 3 temp mounting holes so that we can get repeatability: as we trial fit the skins and modify the inner panels---they will be completed before we modify the outer skin or build the  required new panels 

Did commit major coin  :-o to Nate Jones for 2 new 21" Goodyears seems the 22" M/Ts are not available. I had bought 3 wheels but the tire prices had almost doubled so i will not have a spare at first  :-(


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 15, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
John sent this!  We have decided to more or less completely finish the front end before we cut the hole for the canopy.  This thing will need more biengenginering time before it tells us for sure what it wants!!!

You can see the diagional lower tube that we want to kickout to touch the skin to pick up additional room for us OFGs


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dynoroom on February 15, 2012, 01:46:54 PM
Looks like the rocket I use to play in back when I was a kid.

Hope you guys have fun too Sparky.....


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 15, 2012, 02:26:28 PM
lol  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 18, 2012, 11:18:36 AM
Well I had a long day in the shop yesterday!  Thanks to Sumner's build (" the quality of my brackets went up when I got a plazma cutter") and John who has a friend that is closing out his shop  I now have a Thermal Dymatics 50.

I had to hard wire the compressor---so that I could run them both---only something that I had thought about for 2 years when I moved it to it present location.  Then Josiah, a neighbor from down the street who was out wandering modified an exsisting piece for a cart.

 We will get hard on finishing the cockpit and making new mounting brackets for the front axle.  We now will be able to make nice fitment for the 1/4" seat plates and nose plates.  The brake stuff came in and we will noodle the adjustable brake and throttle pedals, and make the lap belt brackets.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: maguromic on February 18, 2012, 11:33:37 AM

Sparky, Looks like a very interesting and fun  build, I am always looking for your updates.  Tony


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 19, 2012, 12:04:21 PM
Thanks Tony,  Sometimes I stand in awe and sometimes  I just stand and stare.  I have been just standing since we were able to get the tank all the way on.  Today I am going to modify  an idea I learned from John. He cut a profiling pattern of the inside of his Crosley.

I am going to take some stiff wire and bend it to the outside of the tube profile and then tack it to the frame and see if the tank will still slide over it with out touching before I CUT out the present tubes.  I hope my idea works better than I think i expressed it.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on February 19, 2012, 07:37:26 PM
Looks like things are progressing nicely!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 19, 2012, 09:07:59 PM
Rob some times it feels like 3 forward and 2 back  but we try to keep after it and get something done each week.

We had out of town drop by-- Francis. Andy came over and later Marty dropped off the almost completed "radiator in a box" done today and I showed him the new welder and Plasma cutter. We also discussed some options on the heating coil we will put in the dry sump tank.

2-22-12  you can see the weld in the tank where they inserted the blocking tab that makes it into a 2 pass.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 20, 2012, 10:24:05 PM
Well---the lesson of the day is----ta da--- Most of the race stuff has 5/16 dia. rods on their master cyls and most of the street rod stuff has 3/8  so I now need to make or find me a 5/16" female to 3/8" male adapter to make the brakes work.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on February 20, 2012, 11:08:14 PM
Rex, do you have any renderings of the Thud Spud with the wild weasel nose? It would be good to look at the both with renderings from the sane angle.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 21, 2012, 07:51:48 PM
Thanks for those pictures, looks like you have a rad mounted between two boxes?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 21, 2012, 09:18:22 PM
Rex, do you have any renderings of the Thud Spud with the wild weasel nose? It would be good to look at the both with renderings from the sane angle.

pretty sure that angle is not available. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on February 21, 2012, 10:00:41 PM
Lol! I meant same angle! We all have come I the conclusion that there is no sanity here on this forum.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 21, 2012, 11:35:27 PM
T-man  It is a 2 pass radiator in a box with an internal baffle, that makes the water cross through, go up, then back through before exiting.  We haven't installed the bungs yet for the cooling water in, the heated water out or the pump out bung for taking the water out for warming up the eng. 

We will also have a heated water line from under the thermostat to go through the dry sump tank to heat the oil and then back to the intake side of the water pump.  We may or may not run a second thermostat in that line to close it off when its up to temp.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 21, 2012, 11:57:59 PM
ok, is this what you were wanting to see?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on February 22, 2012, 01:21:04 PM
Woody,
Is the red spot just in front of the rear tires where the salt is going to stick to the body??

Rex


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on February 22, 2012, 01:23:28 PM
Woody,
Is the red spot just in front of the rear tires where the salt is going to stick to the body??

Rex

 :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stan Back on February 22, 2012, 01:51:10 PM
Sparky let me know, confidentially, that he's planning a water misting in that area.  He figures by the two, the salt build-up will streamline the back wheels and add 10 MPH.  He'll kick it off on the way to Impound.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 22, 2012, 05:26:53 PM
Teflon "Salt no Stickem"


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on February 22, 2012, 05:31:05 PM
Whitewalls?   Cool!   :cheers:

Mike


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: theazoldcrow on February 22, 2012, 05:57:00 PM
 :-D  If the white walls are waxed with carnuba it is possible to reduce air drag by an undocumented amount!  (some old codger told me this my first trip to the Salt)


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: rd400f on February 22, 2012, 06:16:08 PM
ok, is this what you were wanting to see?

Hi
What software are you using to do your sim's?
Flow Simulation from Solidworks ?
Thanks
Richard


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 22, 2012, 10:22:22 PM
Woody is doing this stuff  I just finally figure out how to copy to this site!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 23, 2012, 11:43:32 PM
Had a pretty good day in the shop got 1/2 done what I needed to.  We have some more room in the drivers area but I still think that Andy is going to have a NEW house guest-- :evil: --Jenny Craig  :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on February 24, 2012, 10:17:33 AM
Sparky, we all need Jenny  :-D 
Corey couldn't fit in the lakester 3 years ago... without the fire suit... over beers at WoS 09 he said he would love to drive at Bonneville... someday... the answer was easy, if you can fit you can drive... the car wasn't getting larger so he got smaller.  By Speedweek he was over 50 lbs lighter for his rookie pass.  This Speedweek I think he is at -65 or so... although he was pretty swelled up when Dan handed him a hat.
Motivation

Had a pretty good day in the shop got 1/2 done what I needed to. 

That is a really good day... you got something done


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 28, 2012, 06:15:25 PM
Dave came at 8:30 Motorcycle Doug Robinson at 9:00 Joey at 9:30 John at 10:30---took us almost 1:30 hours to get the weld jig plum and level and the uprights back on.  Then we drilled out the exact center from the circular frt end plat and ran a string through the farme and spent another hour getting everything just right and hard tacked the nose---we will now beging finish weld on lots of things we can get at from flat then we will rotate....


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 28, 2012, 08:16:47 PM
now that we are as true and straight as we can make it we will finnish the drivers area.  The seat and floor are 1/4' plate---the plazma cutter made this much more enjoyable


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on February 28, 2012, 09:55:35 PM
Looking good Sparky! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 28, 2012, 10:35:55 PM
Thanks,  I was able to pick up a good bit of space inside the hip area with a slight loss of "CORONA" as PP says.  WE will be final welding as much of the front stuff in front of the first hoop as we can and we need to tweak the rear axle about 3/16" inch to get the center of the pinion Spot ON :|


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 29, 2012, 08:48:43 AM
Well yesterday we we were taking the mock up apart we were able to take the heads of and drop the block between the rails.  Someone asked me if we designed it that way :? DIIK  I suffer from CRS!! :-P


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on February 29, 2012, 02:36:27 PM
Looking good Sparky, CRS must be a northern hemisphere version of CRAFT?

Is heads off and between the bottom rails the only way out for the motor?

Thought you mentioned some removable rails.

I'm making up some joiners for removable rails, basically a split piece of solid with 2 shoulder bolts that is spigoted into the rails.

If you have removable rails could you post a pic of your joiners please?



jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 29, 2012, 02:49:27 PM
Jon we are going to hard weld every thing then when we have a roller and start installing the heavy stuff we will cut them out install everything then Weld the couplings.


UPDATE---After all the weight is in---otherwise you may have to pick up on the chassis  last time we had to put our weight on the lower rail to get it out.  with the interlock type ethier try to make sure their is no weld pull or make allowance for it and tack in four spots and make sure they come in and out and weld a little at a time-----we did one 3 times on the old car before we got it useable.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on February 29, 2012, 02:53:07 PM
Sparky, not only does the work look first class, but the progress seems to be fast and furious, while still well planned!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on February 29, 2012, 02:59:45 PM
Good info thanks Sparky, better plan than I had.

You making or buying the couplings?


jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 29, 2012, 03:12:35 PM
"Looking good Sparky, CRS must be a northern hemisphere version of CRAFT? "

I don't know but I suspect that it may lead to it!!


Bought----The uppers will be mostly in compression and the bolts are not in shear in compression. I would have been confortable making those.  the mid rail coupling I would buy again as the 2 bolts are only used to hold the interlock together and are not in shear at all


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on February 29, 2012, 03:17:45 PM
Like the quote AND the blog Sparky :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on February 29, 2012, 03:23:40 PM
Thanks for all the kind words---

about the build speed----Andy says we have never been in the position of having to wait on us and the car  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 06, 2012, 07:34:02 PM
Dave, Joe and John came by today, Dave mostly finished an adapter on the lathe that he need for a project at home---Joey got in 3 GOOD hours on final welds for the joints he can get to from above.  Dave and Joey had to leave at lunch---John and I trimmed the nose plates and tacked them. 

This week I will cope the tube that the shoulder belts go over on the seat back, then be can attach the harness. We already have the lap belt brackets flame cut.  We then will need to install the inner panels and see if we can still get in and out.  I tried it today with out fire suit and with the seat bottoms welded in we picked up some clearance.  WE WILL BE SECURE!!! :-o


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 06, 2012, 10:24:46 PM
Roger that, sounds good! You forget how that camera works? :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 09, 2012, 12:45:28 AM
Andy and I had a great evening of bingenginering---noodled out the next moves-- we will use a plump bob to make the center lines on 4 places on the frame and install the vertical "stake" so that we will be able to track how much torsional twist we have when we cut it loose frt and rear.. we also figured out the rt axle mounting system so that we can align the frt axle and change the wheel loadings---it is simple enough that we Aggies understand it!!

We will then cut the frame from the weld jig and move it forward 80" so that we can align and lock down the rear frame behind the rear axle---we then will install all of the braces and cross members for the push bar and chute mounts.   And then, and then we will install the jig on its  end stands so that we can "lean" it to the right and then lean it to the left for welds.  take it off the jig and roll it on the floor to weld the bottom.

Some time during all of this we will finish assembly of the axles and we will have a ROLLER!!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 09, 2012, 09:01:34 PM
Photo update coming! Dave and I moved the frame forward 80" when we cut it of the frt. lock down it ----"twanged" to the drivers side about 3/8" at the very front when we realigned it on the weld jig and I cut one tack weld in a bottom plate and it came back about 1/2 of that---I am happy to have  3/16" off center  over 207"  on frame only---we will try to  work that out when we hang the body shell  :-P

MC Doug R came by for a visit and helped me tack the rear frame on two more cross members so that when we work on nailing the back oval we can cut, ratchet strap, and pull with out moving the front. 

Wow we are getting close to taking this thing OFF!!!

Pict to come this weekend


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 10, 2012, 12:49:30 AM
Don't worry about being off that little, your weld schedule.....as in your pattern will make up for it as you work your way around the frame.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 10, 2012, 06:07:10 AM
T-M 
I am welcome to coaching on my weld schedule.  The only thing I have been doing is not do a whole weld at once.  I know to tack and clamp down then alternate, side to side as well as end to end.  I do not have enough experience to have a feel or insight as to how a weld is going to pull other than on a butt weld I do know about the hinge effect.  I do think that all in all that I have done a slightly above average job so far.  So far there have been 3 different inspectors in my shop looking at the progress and have at least not said redo this or I would revisit that. 

All in all this car so far is starting out much more symmetrical than the old car, maybe it will not be as hard to get it to go STRAIGHT. Straight and true is GOOD!  :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 10, 2012, 12:13:38 PM
I find it instinctive so I will not be a very good coach! I just sort of keep a good eye on things and try not to worry so much and hamstring myself. Sounds like you are getting there just fine.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 12, 2012, 12:10:40 AM
Between Taxes, watching Tony win, and chasing parts I got an off and on 3 hours noodling my alignment issues.. i think I am just going to have to get the 1/8" in the front with outer shell adjustments and the tail I can "encourage" straight by diagonal installation. :-P 

Then picts.  I promise


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on March 12, 2012, 02:58:56 AM
The way to think about weld distortion is to remember that the shrinkage happens toward the heat. If you weld an unrestrained square tube on one side it will form a shallow vee with the weld being on the inside of the vee. The weld will also shrink in the direction of the weld. That's why if you weld together two sheets and they aren't properly tacked first they come tighter and tighter together until often they'll overlap.

When you're welding a structure such as a space frame always use careful, close fit up with lots of tacks and then try to work such that the next weld you make offsets the effect of the one you made immediately previously.

A careful approach can eliminate much of the distortion and twisting from any sort of structure.

If you do run into a serious distortion problem and you have a strong jig or surface plate you can sometimes straighten things out by clamping the structure down firmly and heating each joint to dull red and letting it cool. This is definitely not the preferred way but it can help save some structures.

I hope this helps.

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on March 12, 2012, 04:49:35 AM
Further to distortion and straightening.

If you have a gentle bend or are trying to induce a gentle bend in something heat can also be your friend. A good example is either straightening or adding camber or toe to a rear end housing.When you apply heat to a spot on the tube the tube will form a very shallow vee away from the heated area. If the spot is made red hot and then allowed to cool or in some cases forced to cool with water or air the piece will pull more than it expanded thus bringing the ends in the direction of the heat affected zone. This knowledge can be used to make some amazing repairs or adjustments.

Be very careful using rapid cooling as it can lead to brittleness in many materials and brittle leads to breakage. On the other hand if it is practical to use rapid cooling methods the effects of the heating and cooling can often lead to greater movement.

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 12, 2012, 08:12:52 AM
PJ 
Thanks for the coaching,  I will try the two heat techniques next.

  I have 3 tubes in the top that form  6' long triangles and two in the bottom of the tail section. These are presently tacked to the 8" x 24" oval at the rear.
  I "hot welded" one of the lower last night with it under compression with a ratchet strap and it helped some on the lower, it has very little to go.

The upper is where I will get the rose bud out and play some following your suggestions. I also can weld in two diagonal braces the get the rest out ( I think). lol


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 12, 2012, 07:56:52 PM
WOWee Sowee----got the rosebud out,  ratchet strap pulled the upper just about 3/16 past wher I wanted it to end up---and, and then ---I normalized the three welds as per PJ suggestion  then heated up about 6"-8" to pink on side of the two uppers that I wanted to push away from---then to the other side reheated the joint "red" then kept going back and forth on the side I wanted to pull toward---I just moved the rose bud back and forth length wise untill I had 1.5" band about 12" long that was also red.  left the strap on for 2 hrs to cool down---

got out the tape---could not believe it  spot on up and down oval vertical  :-D

Thanks again to all who post and help each other out!!!! 

I have no doubt I can move the front the less than 1/4' (" lol) it needs!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: fredvance on March 13, 2012, 05:32:25 PM
I don't care what "they" say, some of those guys from east Texas are pretty sharp!! :evil:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 13, 2012, 11:19:04 PM
I know that was meant to be a compliment  :-o   --yeah but with a bad case of East Texas mush mouth---  lots of folks take a while to figure that out!!  :-D  lol


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on March 14, 2012, 08:40:30 AM
Fred... I knew Sparky was an easterner... but now I think since he lives in "western Texas"  :-D he is gaining speed on his expanding (knowledge) base   :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: fredvance on March 14, 2012, 10:21:34 AM
Yeah I knew he left here a long time ago. Boy talk about out of the frying pan into the fire, literally. :evil:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2012, 12:09:52 PM
We had a grat day in the shop yesterday, Dave came at 8 and we got started on the frt axle---we have the piolt holes drilled thru the frt plate and we will soon be able to attach it, John Showed up and started wire brushing all the wells---Joey wasn't able to come but unannounced Marty called, he is a certified welder and and builds off road racers---he welded until 7 pm we have 90% of the welding done my computer is either under attack or the gremlins are alive and well----it can't find my usb port :? ---hence still no picts---

I know I know lame excuses :roll:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2012, 02:29:33 PM
once more I am Bailed Out by John  :-o

John sent a couple he took yesterday


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2012, 07:59:10 PM
update


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2012, 08:05:58 PM
Thats alllll folks   8-)


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on March 14, 2012, 08:11:34 PM
Wow, fast and very good looking!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2012, 08:58:49 PM
FAST  it took us a year to get to this point!!  :|

The next thing that I will do is noodle out the battery box and vertical that the push bar and chute attachments anchor to. After that I will install all of the harness attachment points and the seat backs. I am dancing around trying to be responsible enough to file my taxes---hopefully enough left over to pay order the rest of the parts and buy enough alum to finish skinning the FPD


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 14, 2012, 10:47:57 PM
I understand the YEAR part!!!!!! Looking good!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2012, 10:34:53 PM
Well last night Andy and I crawled in with the helment and marked our Shoulders, hip bones, and bottom of our feet without the SFI 20--

Sat we will put the 20 suit on and do the same thing; this 9 point is slightly different as to how one runs the shoulder belts. I have roughed out the "seat back" and we have to trim 3" off the upper back so that the belts pull off our shoulders at a 90 with the "HYbrid" on.

 I think that TB would be happy "these peas" are not going to have much room to "rattle" around in this rattle trap---refers to the sounds of the car when on roll out after the eng is shut down!! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 17, 2012, 09:49:19 AM
Sparky, can you post good pictures and details of your 9pt belt set up as you do them?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2012, 10:07:16 AM
Sure, the bottom line is the shoulder belt, "inner" that is between your body and the outer harness, job is to pull you, parallel to your spine down "into" your crotch belts, and the outer belts pulls back or against the seat back at  almost 90 degs. to your spine. 

When done like this you have virtually no torso movement at all,  hence the repeated warning make sure you place your controls with in reach!!! :-P


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on March 17, 2012, 02:22:24 PM
That is a seriously strong looking frame Sparky, must be happy with it?

I must be a bit steady, there is 4 shoulder harness straps?
2 that pull back (horizontal) and 2 that pull down (90 degrees to your setback angle)?

A while ago I asked about the joiners that you were putting in the bars above your motor, would you have a link or pics please?

Thanks
jon



Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2012, 02:36:01 PM
will do!!
coming


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2012, 03:37:01 PM
notice over and under


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
The strap is pulled straight back and the one on top now is the 180 strap---it pushes you down into the crotch strap  it keeps you from rising up into the back and top of the cage.

3-18-12 update: 
Andy and I spent a good bit of time in the car fully SFI 20 "Suited" yesterday--the two faint black lines indicate non HANS and with the Hybrid Pro on; we will be trimming the upper seat back and devising a removable insert for the space left open for our hands to be able to adjust the shoulder harness.

When we trim this we will consider putting both straps behind this seat back---what will change will be the attachment points of the two straps---we have the 180 strap bar installed---we have not decided on the 90 yet but we can after yesterdays session.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2012, 03:45:08 PM
here they are Jon---between my CRS and my usb port acting up  I FORGOT!!! sorry for the delay!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on March 17, 2012, 03:58:16 PM
Thanks Sparky.

Is 9 point a requirement for you?
We run the same rules with a year delay, our rules say 7 point but we will be on a new book before I get close to finished.


Thanks
Jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 17, 2012, 04:06:13 PM
not quite yet-- but is hardly added anything to the cost---they grew out of the fact that with the head and neck device the straps need to come off it at 90---so it no longer pulled one down into the crotch straps..


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on March 17, 2012, 04:19:52 PM
Thanks, I will as Bob Stroud about them when I order my belts, he seems to be the only supplier that recertifies belts and he was pretty helpful when working through my chute requiquirements.

We only run once a year, I'm going to keep all my safety kit including harness & chute in a Pelican Case or similar that is airtight to keep them decent.

jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 18, 2012, 11:47:04 PM
T-M  when we weld the tabs in I will try to remember to take picts of all attachment points. Andy and I noodled some more about the shifters and such in this car----will have to be creative with out any LIQUID calories---- between the 3 of us we are going to have to loose a combined 100 lbs.  :cry:

they Mayor's reference about Allisons "LSR is a lifestyle"---well to do LSR in this new car we are going to have to HAVE a lifestyle change  :cry:  this thing is going to be TIGHT  the exhaust will be a challenge as well as fitting US in!!  so much for wanting to be fast----we will do it we do want to be fast!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 19, 2012, 03:12:23 PM
That would be nice Sparky, thanks!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2012, 01:22:44 AM
We got a note from Woody today saying that he was working on our final config.--- this is his teaser   :-)

This is pretty close to what we think we are trying to build---

I read in an AERO book one time that an open wheel car has 40-60 of the total drag in the tires---with the help of Woody and his CFD, opinions of Pork Pie and several others, and the input over the years of many we think we have a good results  64% of total drag in wheels and tires---that is with no body air leaks:

But as Joe Amo and so many others have said its just a dream untill you put it on: "The Great White DYNO" 

Here's to August and a possible visit with "the Mayor"  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on March 20, 2012, 01:06:44 PM
Sparky;

You can increase that percentage even more if you run big wide tires.  :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on March 20, 2012, 01:40:44 PM
Sparky;

You can increase that percentage even more if you run big wide tires.  :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

67.7% with MT's on the back!  :-(
Sparky, has Neil been spying on us?  :? :-D

I wish GY & MT would give us 3D models of the tires at speed. Me thinks they are not really so round!  :-o

Sparky has agreed and I will do some articles for BRN about his project and we'll leak some stuff here, too! So stay tuned!  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on March 20, 2012, 02:09:17 PM
Sparky,
Many thanks for lettings us see the results of some of Woody's work. Couple of questions about the latest: 1. Are the small rear facing ducts that I see just above the rear axle fairing your exhaust outlets? 2. Your axle fairings, both front and rear extend past the rear of the wheel, any thoughts of ducting some air through the fairing and to the back of the wheel to fill the void that is there? It is going to be a really great looking car you will need to really work on body fit and smoothness to keep the friction drag down to take full advantage of that great shape.

Rex


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2012, 05:46:01 PM
Correct on the exhaust Rex , Woody and I think that we will build them in such a way that we can "Play in that area"---bottom line  we will make them moveable to change the angle of attack because in that area he could not make them very effective other than fairings but he did get some down force out of them


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2012, 07:50:50 PM
T M  as soon as the batt in the camera charges, we will post the belt attachments


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2012, 11:46:14 PM
Joey and I had a good day in the shop---we installed the chute anchor attachment and push bar anchor


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
from rear:
the upper bar is for 8-9 upper or outside straps that are at 90 degres to spine,

the lower bar is for the 3-4 underneath or inner shoulder straps that pull you into your crotch straps.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2012, 11:58:06 PM
Drivers box:
# 1 is the 7 strap attachment point that keeps the lap belt from riding up off you hips on this car we but it between our heels because of our very reclined position

# 2 shows the attachment point for the new out side 8-9 straps that come over the Head & Neck restraint on top of the 3-4 shoulder straps then down at a 90 angle to your spine

#3 shows lower tube that we will attach the 3-4 shoulder straps to the upper tube is the attach point for the 8-9 outside or upper shoulder straps that pull you in to your 5-6 crotch straps.

#4 shows the attachment tab points  at  the hip bone, for the 1-2 lap belts and the 5-6 crotch straps


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on March 21, 2012, 12:08:07 AM
Sparky, hard to tell but what thickness is that plating for the "drivers box"?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 21, 2012, 01:11:32 AM
1/4"


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on March 21, 2012, 06:20:16 AM
That's some serious metalwork Sparky.

You going closed or open tail?

jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 21, 2012, 07:03:16 AM
mostly open, although above and below the chute tubes I MAY close and fair to a pointy end


The shape we are using generated about 200# lift at 300 so we are going to make the fairings so that they will resopnd to changing the angle of attack; but we also wanted to make it as resistant to torsional twisting as possible with a fairly narrow frame---hence the very heavy plating on 3 sides up front.  Also Mr. Burkland encouraged me to keep the pod small so that the "peas" couldn't rattle around much in the event of "happenings"..  someday depending on health and ect  we wish to add a little mechanically induced decrease in Density Altitude---aka hair driers


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 24, 2012, 06:48:59 AM
Friday Andy and I picked up the new front "shoes" for the baby at Nate Jones's Cowboy Tire Co.  Wow has the price of "POKER" gone up---it seems like one must pay to play  lol

We will be taking as good a care of thes things to make them LAST  I only bought 2 even though I had Marsh make me 3 wheels---the spare will have to wait!!  We have a car to finish and the body I am sure will take some serious "coin" to finish!!  Going to the Gear Grinders annual get-to-gather!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Captthundarr on March 24, 2012, 11:29:09 AM
Lokin Good Sparky, Keep the info come'n. beyween you guys and the other fine (?) folks here my library is filling up. :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 27, 2012, 07:42:50 PM
We had a good day in the shop---computer down---no picts--

mounted the frt axle

modified the SpeedWay steering lower arms to work on the upper holes and modified the hubs by cutting off the lower strg. arms  we will soon have the frt axle together---we may soon have a roller :roll:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on March 27, 2012, 10:23:35 PM
here they are!  geeze you would think that as many of these as I've done I would be able to get it right the first time ..

Note:  the Axle is only removeable side ways after the 4 1/2" bolts are removed; it is trapped vertically against the axle above by the tubing protuding through the "Battery Basher" and the 3/8" mounting bracket at the bottom.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on March 28, 2012, 09:59:29 AM
Based on past success, and the quality of the build, this will be one to see! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 04, 2012, 10:38:04 AM
We had a pretty good day yesterday---Welded in the bulkhead --we will now be able to start "brackett racing" the fuel tank, radiator in a box, and the dry sump tank fire bottles. 

I normalized with a rose bud all the joints in the eng bay especially the one we are going to put the removable "joints" in---picts to follow

Skip called andwill be in town today and Thurs. morning--- we should be able to break bread together


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 04, 2012, 01:18:54 PM
Sparky, I am working on my front axle right now as well, are you making any provision to change caster? And what caster are you shooting for?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 04, 2012, 02:15:54 PM
6 deg  not really any provision for caster change other than cutting the 10 HARD spot welds that hold the axle to the bracketts  could be done by shimming the flat bracket I guess!!  The only reason I but 6 deg     was  I guess some is expected


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 04, 2012, 10:46:53 PM
Yesterday;

you can see the heat lines from the normalizing the joints with a rose bud tip---when we cut the tube it stayed straight!!

We will now install the connectors in the other two tubes we are putting them in!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 04, 2012, 10:51:09 PM
hubs:

  you can see where we had to grind the ridge out of the back of the spindle so that it would clear the Speedway axle--

-also note where we cut the lower steering arm off and we will  the install the Speedway arms that we have modified to mount on top so that we can get the steering rods in the wind shadow of the frt axle!!

will post pictures of the modified strg. arms soon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on April 05, 2012, 12:37:52 AM
Looking Good Sparky.

For your removable joints did you normalize the tube, cut and fit one joiner, normalize the tube again and cut and fit the second joiner?


Thanks
jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 05, 2012, 01:02:09 AM
Jon,  I think I will normalize the welds on the joints themselves  hadn't thought about doing the  hoop to tube joints again but that might not be a bad idea.  We had a magnetic level on the tube before, during and after  through out the process trying to keep things the same.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 08, 2012, 09:59:13 AM
Fuel Roadsters

At the Gear Grinders banquet I spent a good bit of time with Chauvin Emmons , no longer jr as his dad is no longer with us as he brought me up to speed with his /BFRMR after the fire at B'ville

Skip Pipes came by Thursday Am -- we had a great visit, went to Bruch . We were in the shop most of the time with the Thud Spud  and he brought me up to speed on his   F/BFR---  plans on running E85 and plans on running this season

After Sip left I went to pick up a small piece of 1 5/8 tubing for the Thud Spud and on the way back stopped by Al E to follow his progress with his change over to A Toyota hemi  in which he plans on running this season

Friday  Francis from Oro Valley AZ who works for Rons Fuel Injection a dropped by and brought me up to speed on his Honda powered
 G/FR  plans on running alky this season . 

Skips and Francis cars or both new built from scratch cars..

To FRs    :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 10, 2012, 08:13:52 PM
Shop day:

Installed the conectors to drop out the tubes

Getting ready to SIZE the canopy  hole

cut out and reinstalled the rear axle to make it easier to remove when necessary

Put the front skin on to get ready for the "Body Counselor" to advise on the rear body construction


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on April 11, 2012, 09:06:07 AM
Sparky,
Would you say this car was bigger or smaller overall than Radical?
It's a shame about Santorum backing out yesterday. It broke my heart.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 11, 2012, 11:30:45 AM
T Spud is about the same---it is all about trying to cover a BBC & exhaust system  really very little diffrence but SHAPE because the sq. ft. required to cover a BBC is about the same  the old car ran efi and the headers were outside.  the top of the TB was about 32" agl.

  This year I am running a Dominator with spacers so the carb top will be about carb top and air intake scoop will be taller than the old car  only the great white dyno will tell us.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 20, 2012, 08:50:57 AM
Tueday night Andy and I had a session of liquid enduced engineering as to the sequence we need to more or less finish before the trip to EL M in may for a pelim. inspection, and to get a new log book.

I have been in contact Lee Kennedy and Kiwi Steve. requarding Special Construction rules and saftey. Guys and gals the new 9 point harness brings some new saftey to the table but it also brings LIMITATIONS.  I have been impressed with their open attitude as we try to bring a competive, SAFE, new car to the start line.

Fast is good, safe makes it better!  :cheers:

Our goal is to have cut off the weld table and on the ground by MAY 1, :cry: BHO favorite day!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on April 21, 2012, 08:07:52 AM
See you in May, Sparky!

Maybe you could introduce me to this 'liquid induced engineering' you speak of! :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on April 21, 2012, 09:47:24 AM
Just remember no glass bottles, cans have more scrap value.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on April 21, 2012, 11:46:43 AM
Guys and gals the new 9 point harness brings some new saftey to the table but it also brings LIMITATIONS. 

Our goal is to have cut off the weld table and on the ground by MAY 1, :cry: BHO favorite day!!!

Will be a big day to be on it's wheels  :cheers:

Could you share some more on the LIMITATIONS please?
Is the 9 point on the road to becoming mandatory?
I am planning to use 7 point and don't want to knowingly build in something that needs changing.

Thanks
jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 21, 2012, 12:28:12 PM
Jon,  The 9 point just really LOCKS ones upper torso down--no longer can one move around in the harnnes --you are limited to the arm movement -- the shoulder sockett does not move---shifters, switches, chute releases, fire bottles actuators, ect must be a good bit closer than before!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on April 21, 2012, 03:35:43 PM
Thanks Sparky.

Any noise on mandating 9 points over there?
Our rules follow yours.

Thanks
jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 21, 2012, 08:47:47 PM
Jon,

 To get the correct angle of the straps if one is using the Hybrid PRO helment restraint system (which lots of folks are going to because it is easier to deal with) you then do not get near as much longtitudial restraint as one needs---so 2 more straps with very different attach points:  one set pulls 90 degrees to your spine straight off your shoulder topsand the other pulls parallel to your spine  which means the attachment point must be below your shoulder blades.   :-P

if nothing else just put the attachments bars in there an you will be covered---in a semi>full reclining they will most likely EVENTUALLY be required  IMO


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 22, 2012, 12:58:07 AM
Things are heating up in the bracket racing scene:  I am working toward a rolling, steerable, legale cockpit for EL M and my first meeting with the scruitneers!!

I am having to make lots of small brackets with lots of adptations ---am also having to order several small things, wheel studs ect and need to buy or build a butterfly steering wheel this is so exciting all of the endless hours staring at it and drawing with the 1/4" square pads are begining to be realized there have been several cutout and redo, changing of the minds more sessions with the liquid inspired engineers.

 Am really close to have all of the steering fabricated with abunch of used strg. shafts from various donors!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on April 22, 2012, 06:27:04 AM
changing of the minds more sessions with the liquid inspired engineers.

We call that bingeneering.... :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 24, 2012, 08:35:13 PM
WOW!!  what a red letter day!!!
 
Joey and I concentrated on the helmet restraint system!  we cut some 3/16x3" strap 12 inches wide and installed and gusseted them and then taped the flat pad to the bars for testing---wallah----hard to believe   they were nice and snug as we had planned nearly a year ago-- We stood a around and marveled---we could not believe it was so functional and we could still could get in and out without the fire suit---that test will come soon!!This is the most pleased I have felt in the whole build!!!

After he left at 2;30 I worked on the strg.. Dave is going to build the butterfly dragster type wheel.   We ordered some rool bar padding from DJ  we will install it and then install all the harness---with Pro-Hybrid  for the ultimate test---can we still get in and out of this thing... Rip my neighbor from down the street came over this afternoon and said  its time to call the framing inspector and as soon as you get it signed off---its time to call the electrician and plumbers----Guys I am beat  I will take picts soon and post but now its off to the shower!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 24, 2012, 11:58:17 PM
just back

01 the side armor is 12 guage hot roll .109

02  I was very pleased to see the heat tracks on this .109 12 guage  if we have these that means we have the heat almost perfect for .120 which is what most of what we are doing!!

03 is the actual weld

04 final results and why I am so pleased tonight--I will get the new helment out to verify it fits the same:

----SAFER note   Without a 9 point harness I would not build this with 1/2 of the allowed clearance, I would be afraid that my body could move sideways too much in a rollover---also note this has not been signed off on!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 25, 2012, 12:05:34 AM
more

05 showing the tie rods in the wind shadow of the frt axle

06 showing the attachment of the frt of the helment -side to side restraint the actual bar is 3/16"


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: maguromic on April 25, 2012, 12:09:21 AM
Looks good!  I know you are running a BBC bit I forgot how wide is the engine bay?  Tony


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 25, 2012, 12:14:07 AM
Tony the diameter of the hoops are 30" aBBC 9.8 deck height is 24" wide at the headers plates-- we are going to try to get the headers inside if we can

The intake system is going to stick above the tank 6-8" to top of intake scoop

07  rack and pinion and the master cyl.

08 looking forward

09 steering shaft held by a short piece of tube that is slightly larger than shaft--this can be removed

10  this is real close to the position of the strg shaft when finished


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 26, 2012, 08:08:42 AM
SS 1  we will next be working on the  steering:

After we finished the helment pads Tues.  Joey suggested shoulder pads and we though they were a good idea ---  I got an email from one Mr. B expressing concern about my "clavicle cleaver"  we neither one think that it is possible for the harness to stretch that much---but the shoulder pads are going in!!

Also made at trip to the parts house and asked for the wheel stud catalouge---strange look from the young guy old chick walked behind the shel and handed over a Dorman book and said make yoursef at home call me when you need assistance---most wheel stud a designed to fit a weird size drill bit like 17/32 or such---well I found one that will work with a 9/16th drill .562  and was 2 3/8" which we need longer that the std 2" with our big 1" lug nuts and Taylor Made wheels---only problem  only 1 in Phoenix


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Geo on April 26, 2012, 08:47:09 AM
Sparky,

Thanks for the build fix today!  :cheers:

Quote
neither one think that it is possible for the harness to stretch that much

Not so fast. I know you are in a reclining position however all directions are possible in an impact and belts stretch more than you think. Photos at this link and a video on the site too.

http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/index.html

Geo


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 26, 2012, 08:50:43 AM
SS 1  we will next be working on the  steering:

After we finished the helment pads Tues.  Joey suggested shoulder pads and we though they were a good idea ---  I got an email from one Mr. B expressing concern about my "clavicle cleaver"  we neither one think that it is possible for the harness to stretch that much---but the shoulder pads are going in!!

Also made at trip to the parts house and asked for the wheel stud catalouge---strange look from the young guy old chick walked behind the shel and handed over a Dorman book and said make yoursef at home call me when you need assistance---most wheel stud a designed to fit a weird size drill bit like 17/32 or such---well I found one that will work with a 9/16th drill .562  and was 2 3/8" which we need longer that the std 2" with our big 1" lug nuts and Taylor Made wheels---only problem  only 1 in Phoenix

You got that Dorman PN? I have th Dorman book but that might save me a little searching.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Geo on April 26, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
I used late model Ford Mustang front studs.  Got the 17/32 drill bit at NAPA.

Geo


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 26, 2012, 11:42:38 PM
in the shop will get it in the AM--

I worked some in the shop today---cutting and fitting flat pad---Andy got home around 7:00 pm and I climbed in with the new helment to locate the "shoulder pads" a --nd got a great feel for where we will have to go with the addtional pad mountings  we are on track to Full Suit trial fit on Tuesday!! that will tell us where the shifter and maybe the fire bottle pulls!!!  Sports fans this is begining to get exciting--for I asked my wife to cut the $425.00  check to BNI for SPEEDWEEK!!!!!!! 


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 27, 2012, 01:18:29 AM
Sports fans this is begining to get exciting--for I asked my wife to cut the $425.00  check to BNI for SPEEDWEEK!!!!!!! 

Woo-Hoo!

He puttin money where his mouth is   :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on April 27, 2012, 05:12:59 AM
Good news! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 27, 2012, 09:23:58 AM
climbed in with the new helment last night, and Andy noted where we will have to put the Shoulder Pads---the drivers area of this thing is going to be intresting when we get thouugh with it  :? or will it be  :-o  only time will tell---steering today I should be able to get in 4.5 hrs this morning

T-M  I will trial fit the studs to see how that goes!!  if I dont I will break down and order the 17/32 drill bit  :-(


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on April 27, 2012, 03:22:40 PM
Bill;

Have a look at the Speedway Motors website http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search-wheel-studs.html They have a 0.672" drill for their 5/8" wheel studs there for $9.99.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on April 27, 2012, 03:47:44 PM
Looking good, must feel good to be paying dues to run  :cheers:

I looked for studs that fitted a "normal" sized drill bit, then decided to buy a 17/32 drill bit.

Figured it was better to have a drill bit that I hardly used than trying to search for oddball studs if I ever needed replacements.

I have a set of studs in my spares box in case I need them, they also fit my trailer hubs and probably a few other vehicles on the salt.

My 2 cents
jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 27, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Just a note: 17/32 dia drill is not an uncommon drill size. It happens to be the recommended drill size for clearance for a 1/2 inch diameter bolt. I know most of us use a 1/2 inch drill for a 1/2 inch bolt but if your drill press is like mine the hole comes out .010 inch larger so the 1/2 inch bolt goes through.
Rex


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on April 27, 2012, 04:19:06 PM
Rex;

1/2" wheel studs are kind of small, aren't they?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 27, 2012, 04:40:28 PM
Just a note: 17/32 dia drill is not an uncommon drill size. It happens to be the recommended drill size for clearance for a 1/2 inch diameter bolt. I know most of us use a 1/2 inch drill for a 1/2 inch bolt but if your drill press is like mine the hole comes out .010 inch larger so the 1/2 inch bolt goes through.
Rex

We must have the same press!? :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 27, 2012, 05:07:33 PM
I ordered some of those Speedway 5/8  before I was smart enought to check how a 5/8 fit my wheels---not   :-o  only as a last resort will I mangle my Taylor Mades


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 27, 2012, 05:36:16 PM
I ordered some of those Speedway 5/8  before I was smart enought to check how a 5/8 fity my wheels---not   :-o  only as a last resort will I mangle my Taylor Mades

I may be able to take those off your hands, let me look tonight


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 27, 2012, 05:45:11 PM
if they do--- payable in beer at the Salt Talks!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on April 27, 2012, 07:28:47 PM
Bill;

In circle track racing, 5/8" wheel studs are standard. Virtually all stock car wheels are made to fit 5/8" studs, usually 5 on a 5" circle.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 28, 2012, 12:24:34 AM
Sparky, I think we have a deal. PM me your addy and I will send shippings costs! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 28, 2012, 11:01:53 AM
Well I had a great 1 1/2 hours ---after dancing around dealing with my steering tie rods  I went to the shop this morning got out the cut off wheel whacked them--whacked the tubing I bought into 6.5 inches went to the lathe to counter bore the ends to the steeering rod sizes .500 on one end and .45 on the other wire brushed the paint off  now I have to drill the 6 small holes for the rosette welds on each tube and walla  the wheels  will turn when I turn the strg wheel--- :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 28, 2012, 10:17:37 PM
shoulder pads


tie rods


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Kiwi Paul on April 29, 2012, 12:15:01 AM
Thought about Magnafluxing those tie rods Sparky? I`d do it if it were me, and I weld up Cars and stuff for a living........just saying.... :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 29, 2012, 12:44:56 AM
What should I look for :? 

I thought that magfluxing identified cracks?  These are a mild steel dom sleeves that are cut at a diag.on both ends, tig welded on the diag cut ends, and has 2 rosetts on the 1.75' insert that was a mild interference fit and the other has a 2.5" insert overlap with 3 rosettes, the weld filler was silicone bronze.  These extensions only have to function in tension and compresion.

What am I missing??--- I am not trying to be a WA!  The only way that this process could have been improved on would be to gas weld it, instead of tig it with the info that I posses.

Coaching Comments please!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 29, 2012, 01:34:16 AM
BEER BAIT   :-D :cheers:   :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on April 29, 2012, 05:14:17 AM
I think he's saying to mag them for cracks/micro cracks. When we weld on our derricks, we X-ray the welds the first time, then have to mag them to get re-certifications. On non-load bearing stuff, we are required to mag new welds.

I think having your welds magged would be overkill, but that's JMHO. It sure wouldn't hurt, of course, to be positive they're perfect, as that is a criticle part!

Looks great!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 29, 2012, 09:13:31 AM
Hey, i have the same caliper! I will check tonight but I think those are the ones I need. At the office right now.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on April 29, 2012, 10:51:29 AM
Cousin Paul is right Sparky, I'm looking sideways at that thing too. It looks like you wacked off a stock tie rod & welded a tube in it. Irrelevant to the quality of your welds, the weak points are at the weld on the ends.
It might have been better to machine up a screw on sleave to extend it.
  Sid.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on April 29, 2012, 11:48:38 AM
Bill;

Your tie-rod looks just fine; you cut the ends at a diagonal so the stress will not be concentrated at one point and added rosettes for good measure. Don't worry about it.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on April 29, 2012, 12:13:40 PM
Sparky, the design looks to be in line with generally accepted practice and I wouldn't worry about that.
Check my PM for further suggestions.

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on April 29, 2012, 07:10:39 PM
No worky for me. Early Ford hubs do not have enough meat for the knurl depth. Thanks anyway, always love beer trades.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 29, 2012, 08:46:09 PM
will up date later


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 29, 2012, 08:49:21 PM
Anyone have a recomendation as to a sprint car strg quickener that seems to work well in reverse---this puppy is QUICK  :roll:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Skip Pipes on April 29, 2012, 09:03:01 PM
Sparky,

Look at the 2-1 HOWE unit. It's what I put in my car.

Here is a link to Speedway.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Howe-Steering-Quickeners,24447.html

The 7.5 axle is getting it's gears this week!

Skip


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 29, 2012, 10:28:08 PM
Anyone have a recomendation as to a sprint car strg quickener that seems to work well in reverse---this puppy is QUICK  :roll:

Bite the bullet....get some longer steering arms, you could mock some up to work out how much longer.....those ones look a bit flimsy anyway :-D :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on April 29, 2012, 10:40:15 PM
Anyone have a recomendation as to a sprint car strg quickener that seems to work well in reverse---this puppy is QUICK  :roll:

I used the same quickener in our liner.
Great minds think alike? Lol!
Those steering rods should be fine.
The silicon bronze filler was probably a good idea as the lower temps will have less effect on components than welding.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on April 29, 2012, 11:43:53 PM
Do you have enough room for duplex chain and sprockets Sparky?
That way you can set the ratio that you want rather than what you get, you can also fine tune the ratio layer if you need.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 30, 2012, 06:54:56 AM
Well I was up in the middle of the nignt so I went to the shop to set up the mill to drill the holes for the wheel studs.  drilled my test holes in a piece of 3/8 with the 9/16---probabaly will not work, not enough knurl bite --off to the shop today to buy the correct drill for the original studs..

Thanks for all of your feed back on the tie rods--this is what so great about this site there are folks that will usually end up on both sides and that gives one a HEADS up to rethink, reavaluate, and the one gets to make a "englightend" decision  lol  seriously thanks for the pros and cons  I feel confortable about our decision and especially about Marty skills who did the actual welding on this part!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 30, 2012, 01:37:42 PM
Sparky,
I used the Howe quickner box on my little modified street roadster, mounted it  backward to slow the steering down and probably have 5000 miles on it with no trouble.  I like the fact that you are putting the steering rod in the aero "shadow" of the front axle are you planning to do any other type of streamlining of the front axle and steering rod?

Rex


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on April 30, 2012, 09:50:50 PM
Rex,  eventually we will and it may happen this year---but the number one objective is get a car DOWN the course, and FEEL that chute as DF talked about in the flick narated by Dr. G 


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Podunk on May 01, 2012, 09:23:56 AM
One way to eliminate concern about the welds on tie rods is to eliminate welds. How about 4140 quenched & tempered round bar. EZ to do. Call me.

                               Terry


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 01, 2012, 04:58:41 PM
Terry,  Thanks for your offer---Others are concerned---AEN says "What me worry".


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 01, 2012, 05:13:21 PM
Another good day in the shop  picts and naration to follow!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 02, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Clamped the lathed chuck to the table, centered the holes with an offset punch,  lowered th table and put our "ADAPTOR" in place and drilled the 1/2 inch holes to 17/32"  will installed the studs WED am..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76LbvnoIDkE



Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 02, 2012, 12:24:50 AM
trial fit---turns out the seat belts are wrong we will send the back so that we can pull UP on the belts to tighten!!!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on May 02, 2012, 11:21:46 AM
Nice pictures, Bill- thanks for posting them.

It might make it easier to exit the car if you weld some handles on the chassis tubes so you can pull yourself forward.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 02, 2012, 01:04:12 PM
Neil, we will have to have a secondary leg restraint that comes across our thighs to retain our legs--on the old car we were able to use that very effectively.  Time will tell, so far we are able to get out easier than the old car.  BUT  there is now no doubt we are all going to have to take that mean old woman into our homes for the next few months---JENNY CRAIG!!!  :cry:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on May 02, 2012, 01:42:27 PM
I'm getting claustrophobia just looking at those pictures! :-o


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: TwinSpin on May 02, 2012, 03:46:31 PM
I know people have joked about how tight it is in the drivers compartment, but seeing you in there makes me feel it is much safer to be snug, almost as though you are putting the race car on, rather then just entering it. I admire the safety aspects you put into your build. I can see me referring back to this build in the archives in the future. I will look forward to stopping by the shop next month.

Bill


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 03, 2012, 10:27:32 AM
Bill,  Look forward to seeing you,  lets just hope we get a plemainary approval at EL M in a little over 2 weeks


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: TwinSpin on May 03, 2012, 01:05:43 PM
Sparky - -

I will sliently tell the EL M angels to give your rocket an AOK-so far, approval. My fingers will be crossed.

All of your work sure keeps my attention on the build pictures and explanations. You are giving me an education I wanted years ago.

Bill

BTW, so far you get my approval and this note from the Principal to put on the refrigerator. I am a retired Vo-Tech Principal.  :cheers:



Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 04, 2012, 11:22:36 PM
I had a good day in a strange sort of way---My front hubs are DONE including drilling holes for the cotter pin through the shortened frt spindle---I almost cut one off to short it will have to have a single leg through the hole instead of a two---Terry says he has dust caps coming---I found a spring kit for the rear brakes so I can finish those  ---soon  MC  Doug R.  made paper doll paterns for the other side panels Tues. so I need to Plasma cut them and tack them---we will be cutting this puppy off the jig before we know it---I have to get it on wheels  so that I can take a pict for the B'ville program!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2012, 06:55:35 AM
Plan on cutting it off the jig today balance it on a shorty axle to be able to roll it out of the back yard into the street to be able to turn it around then back into the shop upside down to finish welding the bottom then on to jack stands for some serious "BRACKET RACING"


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on May 08, 2012, 02:27:06 PM
Obviously we will get some pics of this Sparky? :)

Sorry to drag up an old question but I'm going to measure up and order belts from Strouds to bundle with my pilot chutes and save some postage.

I haven't used anything more complex than a 5 point harness before.

Looks like you have the lap belt (1&2) and crotch straps (5&6) going to the same mount, just put the lap points in the normal spot so belt runs across the hip bones right down to rail level and measure the underleg ones to suit?

 Sparky----- [ This is correct Jon and the crotch straps are adjustable also. I made the  attach bracket long enough so that the adjust  buckle is almost vertical without binding and I put it inside and the lap belt outside of the  attach point.]

You are running bolt ends for the lap, crotch and straight ahead (1,2,5,6 &7) belts and wrap arounds for the shoulder straps (3,4,8&9) any particular reason for that? Do you put anything on the cross tubes to keep the belts in the right sideways position? 

Sparky ----  {I had plenty of room for the cross bars and wanted more cross members any way.}

Do the lower shoulder straps (3&4) come through the gap in your seat back or behind the top part and then over your shoulder? 

Sparky---YES they could go either way  and as soon as we finish in the next day or two I will update this

Thanks
jon




Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2012, 05:48:14 PM
Jon,  I will go point by point but consider how you want the harness to tighten.  I need down on my shoulder straps and UP on my lap belts for  a reclining position


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2012, 05:51:29 PM
a real milestone: 

Free at last, free at last thank God almighty FREE at last


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2012, 05:53:41 PM
update


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2012, 06:01:15 PM
 more


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: saltwheels262 on May 08, 2012, 06:52:06 PM
sparky -very nice piece.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on May 08, 2012, 06:53:24 PM
Got smaller and longer when you took it off the jig!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on May 08, 2012, 08:43:15 PM
Looking goooood Sparky.

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
Tman yours will too  it really gets small we we try to put it on!!!  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 08, 2012, 11:31:36 PM
Got smaller and longer when you took it off the jig!

Around the point you're at we'd really hit the wall, one day in an effort to defibrillate our motivation I figured there was no big reason we couldn't cut her off the jig. As it was lowered to the floor I began laughing, more and more.The other two looked at me like I'd finally succumbed and gone mad.

The Colonel , "...what's up?"

"How f***** LOW is it?!!!!"...( yeah, it had wheels and tyres on it too).it looked like it was sunk half in the floor, and it seemed half the size now that most of it was at knee height.

It worked, all the idea dead ends we'd found ourselves in evaporated and the work rate picked up big time.It was a happy day...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/Tankshotssep006.jpg)


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on May 09, 2012, 12:06:48 AM
Tman yours will too  it really gets small we we try to put it on!!!  :cheers:

Oh yeah, I know, I wear mine to bed to get accustomed to it! :-P :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on May 09, 2012, 12:50:57 AM
Very nice Sparky, must feel good to be off the jig.

Congratulations
Jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Skip Pipes on May 09, 2012, 01:25:48 AM
Looking really good my friend.  Now the hard part (Bracket Racing) starts.

I'll see you at EL MO.

Skip Pipes


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 09, 2012, 01:56:55 AM
Thanks guys---

  Andy got back tonight from five days in Chi-town  we had a few and did not bingeineer one damm  thing  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:

Marty and I will hit it in the am and roll it around until all the welds up to this point---are done--- just looking at this thing and jumping up and down on it;  I am pleased!!!

then we will finish both axles and put the tater on jack stands and get after it--  about ??? ---how many months----went to page one and figured out ----that it was about 62 weeks!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76LbvnoIDkE


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stan Back on May 09, 2012, 10:31:54 AM
Gonna have 6 wheels?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 09, 2012, 03:07:55 PM
If John B can do it why not  :-P


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 10, 2012, 08:28:05 AM
Marty dropped by --Got the bottom welding done yesterday---should finish the top and sides today!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 11, 2012, 12:19:02 AM
Well I  rolled it around on the floor today, a little welding,  a little grinding, a little fabricating  --- I have finally started bracket racing----

 I decided to work in the fuel bay.  I drilled my first hole in the new bulkhead to be able to run the trans shifter cable and I mounted front plate on the lower middle tube to mount the radiator in a box,, on, and on little stuff. 

I will be ordering new throttle cable and parachute cables as well as some misc cable parts.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 16, 2012, 10:15:20 AM
ROAD TRIP

John and Doug came today to help load Thud Spud for his 1st Road Trip ---John and I will be leaving Fri. AM --Going to El M for his plem. inspection and to pick up a log book.

I will be taking my fire suit and helmet to get that all signed off on.


All loaded just need to put the harness in that got back yesterday!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on May 16, 2012, 10:30:07 AM
Sparky, see you there  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on May 16, 2012, 10:43:46 AM
I keep thinking my car is short and the Spud is long but they look about the same in that last pic? What wheelbase again?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 16, 2012, 01:24:17 PM
Glen, looking forward to it!!

T-M   204-205" wb   + 32" in frt of frt axle and 6' behind rear should be


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on May 16, 2012, 01:39:42 PM
Glen, looking forward to it!!

T-M   204-205"  + 32" in frt of frt axle and 6' behind rear should be

About 60" more WB on yours, mines going to look like a skatebaord in comparison!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on May 16, 2012, 03:07:10 PM
Looking good Sparky!

See you there!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: TwinSpin on May 16, 2012, 03:59:55 PM
It looks so different (better) out of the jig. Those ring members in the frame remind me of the jet cars back in the 1960's. And that reminds me of gobs of power and super speeds.
Don't forget to record all these great memories in your head in slow motion and smell the roses along the way.

Bill


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 16, 2012, 11:48:15 PM
Some one told me it reminded them of 60-70s playground equipment ROCKET that replaced the traditional monkey bars!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on May 17, 2012, 10:08:14 AM
Some one told me it reminded them of 60-70s playground equipment ROCKET that replaced the traditional monkey bars!

It does, the park we played at as kids had what we called the ROCKET SLIDE. Looked just like the Spud!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on May 17, 2012, 11:53:15 AM
Sparky:

PM sent.

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 17, 2012, 12:15:17 PM
Marty came by with his boring bar we opened the wheel id .120 to fit over the hubs

The last piece of safety padding glued in..

All I need is to put the belts in and load up the truck


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on May 17, 2012, 12:19:14 PM
Your driver looks a little wooden. Find someone with a little more personality.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 17, 2012, 12:27:01 PM
PJ  I got PM and replied


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on May 17, 2012, 01:31:55 PM
Padding? Thats funny! :-o

To quote an un-named safety supplier "a two-by-four would pass the SFI test better than some of that stuff being sold."


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: charlie101 on May 18, 2012, 12:55:12 AM
Seat belt? Only requires a piece of string for that fella! Paint some eyes and he might pass driver test better than some drivers! :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 20, 2012, 09:24:19 PM
lol  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Elmo Rodge on May 20, 2012, 10:50:29 PM
It was good seeing you Sparky. Buddy dropped me off about an hour ago. I are whipped.  :-P Wayno


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 21, 2012, 06:23:14 AM
Wayno,  Like wise---it was good to meet Buddy for the first time---neat, neat guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76LbvnoIDkE


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2012, 07:55:01 AM
Back in the shop and started on verifying final alignment before welding in the trans mounts and finishing the front motorplate. I have already found one mismatch the vertical tubes at the rear axle are not centered on the lower frame rails.  This is off by about 3/32 and should easily be adjusted when we hang body panels.

PJ asked that I post a shot of the trans. & possible future turbo bay with its weird bracing--once I get the headers figured out this bay will be subject to future "additions"

I will be the first to say  I really do not know exactly the final version of this area will look.

52514 shows 2 of the drivers side rails out to make it possible to take the eng. in and out!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Captthundarr on May 26, 2012, 01:29:43 PM
Keep banging away Sparky been following for awhile. :cheers:

Frank


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2012, 09:54:14 PM
Thanks Frank,

Had a pretty good day in the shop

1. got the tranny mount in
2. got the water tank base mount in
3. Andy came over and finished the brakes
4. scored a used AFCO 2:1 steering quickner off ebay at less than 1/2 price
5 got most of the lines drawn on the frt motor plate so that I can cut it out

VI got the paper work done so that we have another PC in my Paradise Park Precinct to join in the FIGHT!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on May 26, 2012, 11:05:38 PM
It's hard to believe what looks so roomy now is going to be a really tight fit for everything but I fully understand what you're up against. I'll continue to monitor the build and continue to comment when I think I may be able to contribute. Your build continues to look good.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

I enjoyed the conversation the other day Bill.

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 27, 2012, 02:50:22 PM
Tight fit  :-o ---lol  I think  :-P  I am going to have to leave the flat washer off to keep the mounting bolt from hitting the lower skin


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on May 31, 2012, 09:32:12 PM
3 steps forward 2 steps back  ordering parts--making brackets-- sending parts back to get changes made---racer stuff!! cutting grinding---nothing that stands out---


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: jdincau on May 31, 2012, 09:41:44 PM
3 steps forward 2 steps back  ordering parts---- sending parts back to get changes made---

A pal of mine has a quote regarding speed equipment and the fitting thereof;

"It's just a bolt on accessory"


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Buickguy3 on June 01, 2012, 08:42:35 AM
  Sparky,
    I always used to like the bolt on speed parts that you got in the 50's from J.C. Whitney. The last line was always:"Some modification required". Followed by:" Not returnable if modified". Keep plugging along, it's looking good.
   Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 01, 2012, 09:16:18 PM
Geeze  they just don't make these " bolt on parts"  the way they used to  spent the last day changing out my dry sump pan form the deep drag race one to the shallow one---guess what---they put two of the pick up tubes under the rods and not under the mains and they HIT!!  I will contact the manufacture Monday and see if they will make it right---


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 03, 2012, 09:09:33 PM
Brackett racing at its finest:
Water pump bracket by the rear axle
Fire bottle actuator knobs brackets each side of driver
Eng Fire bottle mounted over the radiator in the box
Shift lever built and mounted---not finalized
Fuel shut off cable mounting ---"noodled"
nap
last 1/3 of Nascar race  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 04, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Great news John at Aviaid is going to furnish me with a new pan --I pay the freight both ways ---seems like I must have a NOS as he had changed the pickup tubes several years ago when everyone started putting longer and longer strokes in these things what would work with a 4" stroke will not work with a 4.25


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on June 05, 2012, 10:55:39 AM
Ya could have just noched the rods...  :roll:
We still like to see pictures of "not much going on regular stuff" digital film is cheap


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2012, 05:49:25 PM
#3 rod notcher  :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2012, 06:26:38 PM
SPECIAL  EDITION  :wink: for SS#1 
Jhon came over early and stayed to 3:30  we bent some lower frame rails for one of his projects--which will be neat and I look forward to following it
He installed the vertical fire bottles and drilled the holes in the fire wall for the cables and we worked on lots of other small little things


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2012, 06:29:10 PM
Brakes,  Hopefully I can remove the one way residual pressure  valve later---IF the rear wheel cyls are not higher than the master cyl.

I used the AN system because I was advised it is more flexable  I was pleased with the results  I put clear plastic tubing over the brake line inside the frame tubes frt to rear


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2012, 06:33:30 PM
Strg box and Wheel inset for scrub radius


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 05, 2012, 06:52:00 PM
Strg box and Wheel inset for scrub radius

I think I see a little modification to the steering arms.....???????


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2012, 06:56:22 PM
Good Eye Dr. G

 I moved the strg arm to the top so that I can put the drag link in the wind shadow of the frt axle and the tie rod ends were smaller that the "FORDS" so I just drilled and tapered to the smaller size and it also let them be inside the wheels for the most part  will mount some inner disks later.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 06, 2012, 03:49:47 AM
Yeah, but a while back you were asking, or is that arksing about a step down for the steering.......I note with interest that you have effectively shortened the steering arm, so I gather you are definitely going to use a step down........?

Tie rod behind axle also means it'll fit nicely into a foil.....

smart work on this job Bill.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 06, 2012, 10:59:16 AM
waiting on the u-joints to put the 2:1 in the steering shaft


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2012, 01:22:16 AM
Ordered 2- u joints got 1---- after contacting the supplier---2nd one is on the way  --so the front half of the strg is in with the 2:1 tacked in place---

am noodleing on the brake and throttle system-- needs to be adjustable maybe will be able to rough in this weekend---started on the chute release levers  thinking that I am going to set it up so that a backward swipe with the right hand gets the primary chute and the shove  both forward for the secondary or back up chute  no differences other that teather length


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on June 08, 2012, 09:07:10 AM
Sparky, are you thinking floor mounted or overhead swing?  The liner is floor mounted and we have 3 different lengths from Amo to Steele... The lakester has floor mounted throttle, about 5 adjustments and the clutch and brake are on a slider rail so infinitely adjustable.  Morse cable on throttle of both, Juice clutch and brake.  I may be able to shoot a few pics this afternoon if you want.
Of course if I know you.... you will have it noodled by then...


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2012, 03:40:30 PM
The brakes will use differnt length rods like you suggested---the throttle cable bounces back and forth between over head and floor---I think that we will go to a version of the different lengh rods to  a rod that sorta is a repeater.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on June 08, 2012, 04:11:43 PM
The 444 liner has a sliding pedal rack that allows for different drivers. For Ricks daughter there are also bolt on pedal pads. The throttle cable and the brake and clutch master cyls, :along with the hoses have enough flex to allow for all movement. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on June 08, 2012, 05:52:09 PM
The Liner first... you can see the long leg rod for throttle, the masters for the clutch and brake are behind the pedals.  The bolt you see in front is when we move to the mid-length leg and there are holes that even move it farther back for the Amo position

Excuse the under construction look of the lakester, that front axle is the new one, built last week.  Still putting that part back together.  
The slider for the clutch and brake with 4 clamps.  Like the Vesco car, infinitely adjustable.  

And the throttle set up.... yep lots of holes for movement.  We have several stretcher length rods for the Morse cables in both cars.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on June 09, 2012, 02:44:55 PM
The Liner first... you can see the long leg rod for throttle, the masters for the clutch and brake are behind the pedals.  The bolt you see in front is when we move to the mid-length leg and there are holes that even move it farther back for the Amo position

Excuse the under construction look of the lakester, that front axle is the new one, built last week.  Still putting that part back together.  
The slider for the clutch and brake with 4 clamps.  Like the Vesco car, infinitely adjustable.  

And the throttle set up.... yep lots of holes for movement.  We have several stretcher length rods for the Morse cables in both cars.

That adjustable slider clamp arrangement in the second photo would worry me. If the clamp boolts loostened jut a little under vibration, you could hit the brake pedal after the 5 and feel it sliding forward....
I'd put a pin in there to limit the slider travel "just in case."

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on June 09, 2012, 10:50:58 PM
Neil, never hit the brake so I wouldn't worry about that at all  :-o  Brakes are for the pits and speeds under 50.... Al Teague described using the brakes over 200 like stepping on a ripe plum... when you first step on it you can tell it was there, but then all the sudden it's gone. 
There are 4 individual clamp bolts, any 1 of them will keep the slider in place.  It has never loosened in the 12 years it has been in that configuration, but if it slipped, the clutch would be missed way more than the brake. 


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on June 10, 2012, 12:46:34 AM
Stainless;

"It has never loosened in the 12 years it has been in that configuration..."

Maybe the Bonneville salt will corrode it in place  :-)

I'd still put a pin in there.

...as they said aboard the Hindenburg, "We never had that problem before...."

Regards,  Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 11, 2012, 11:30:16 PM
Geez,  you guys must have confused my pea brain---I have been pondering my brakes and throttle off and on for 3 days---finally I punted and started installing the actuall cables. They proved to be less confusing.  Then I tried the fuel lines and mfuel shutoff---it is failing to comutate with me!!!  lol 


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on June 11, 2012, 11:37:19 PM
Hey, just noticed -

Happy Birthday, Sparky!  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 12, 2012, 12:17:56 AM
Milestone! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Happy birthday mate.OK, enough cake.

Go get 'em.

DrG


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on June 12, 2012, 09:07:14 AM
Well Happy Birthday old man.... not to worry, I hear 70 is the new 50 :-D
Wasn't trying to confuse ya, just give you options.... to confuse you.  If I was doing it, I would make them independent like the lakester, the liner fixes spots for both legs, the lakester lets you have your throttle leg in any position you want it.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: maguromic on June 12, 2012, 09:24:06 AM
Happy Birthday Sparky :cheers:, at 70 your just kid on the salt.  :cheers:  Tony


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on June 12, 2012, 10:26:46 AM
Sparky, Martha Raye said it best, "Birthdays are great but too many of them will kill you!" Many more to you! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on June 12, 2012, 01:19:09 PM
Well Happy Birthday old man.... not to worry, I hear 70 is the new 50 :-D

The above MUST be true, because you sure don't seem 70!

Happy Birthday! :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on June 12, 2012, 01:31:41 PM
Happy Birthday Sparky, welcome to the over 70 club. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 12, 2012, 02:57:51 PM
Glen---is this the CoS club---certifiably ole sheets


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Elmo Rodge on June 12, 2012, 03:14:38 PM
Happy Birthday Bill. Now get back out in the shop. Wayno


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on June 12, 2012, 05:23:24 PM
All the best Sparky. Go show them young'ns how it's done!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 12, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
lets see,  if I can ----how was that done?


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Skip Pipes on June 13, 2012, 01:18:44 AM
Happy Birthday my friend :cheers:

Skip Pipes


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 13, 2012, 01:30:55 AM
Glen---is this the CoS club

somehow I think you have that backasswards...... :wink: :wink:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 13, 2012, 08:43:43 AM
 :-D  :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: theazoldcrow on June 13, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
 :cheers:   Happy Birthday to You !  Happy Birthday to You !  Happy Birthday to You, Bill !  Happy Birthday to You !  ( imagine this being sung to you by a deaf, dumb, blonde, blind nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store with a machine shop next door !)  Hope you have many more to come Sparky !


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on June 13, 2012, 01:33:14 PM
Quoting Stainless: "Well Happy Birthday old man.... not to worry, I hear 70 is the new 50" . This means I am only 49!! Darn that feels great!

Rex


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on June 13, 2012, 02:19:24 PM
Quoting Stainless: "Well Happy Birthday old man.... not to worry, I hear 70 is the new 50" . This means I am only 49!! Darn that feels great!

Rex

Not as good as 69 rex :-o

Sparky happy bday a day late. Last night I made a template for my own battery basher. I am not worried about hitting things as much as I am about torsional rigidity.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on June 13, 2012, 02:29:45 PM
Guys, you only count the anniversaries of your 39th birthday!  :-D

I'm only 28!!  :-o


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Podunk on June 13, 2012, 04:52:02 PM
A late Happy Birthday Sparky. The really good thing is at Bville they call guys our age " Young Man".

                                                                 Terry


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 13, 2012, 05:46:48 PM
 :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 13, 2012, 11:18:05 PM
Well we just keep bracket racing along the last 2 days-- I have been working on fuel systems, dry sump tank and fire suppression systems.  I have located the three nozzels for the drivers area  2 on the front of the upper torso and one spraying on the lower back.  Francis from down south will be by in the AM with one of Rons fuel pressure regulators.   I am going to run a mechanical pump so that I don't have to run an "upset switch"  I have one of Aeromotives big boost registered fuel pressure regulator to step down to 20-22 Psi and I will run on of Rons to drop the carb to 5-7 psi. this system will require 3 fuel returns one from each regulator and one from the fuel shut off I should be able to get away with only two tank holes.

I should be able to pair the shut off return and the carb bypass on a T since only one of those at a time will be returning fuel.

Picts in the AM


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2012, 09:24:08 AM
This is some of what I did on my birthday


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2012, 09:36:25 AM
John came over on Tuesday an he made several patterns for pieces that will finish enclosing the back of the cockpit and I really got busy on the dry sump tank,  Marty came over last night and TIG spotted  several of the dry sump parts.  Francis  should be by today and we will nooodle out the rest of the fuel system.

The picts show the outside, the entrace to the tank of the oil.  Before with the long flat runs we were able to get rid of the bubbles in the oil. This is the oil cooler that we will mount in the tank > I will pull water out underneath the thermostat housing and run through this to pre heat the oil to function as an oil heater and at speed it will function as a oil cooler if need be---any way the oil and water should be near the same temp.

the other pict is the rest of the parts  less a shut of valve so that I can remove the tank with out having to drain it.  not pictured is a vent that I have to  find in my running around.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on June 14, 2012, 02:19:49 PM
Looking good Sparky, amazing how quickly things are coming together.

Stupid question for today; why are you pressurizing the fuel to greater than 22psi to end up using it at 5-7psi?

Belated happy birthday.

jon


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2012, 04:48:05 PM
I am using a mechanical pump for several reasons and so that I can use a Mechanical fuel shut off instead of the dreaded inerita switch.

Some day I will turbo efi and will WANT the mechanical pump because its output better tracks fuel requirments.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on June 14, 2012, 07:09:59 PM
Sparky,
The use of a mechanical pump for an EFI turbo is because it has sufficient flow to maintain the required fuel system pressure at high horsepower and boost pressure. If you have a big motor at high boost the fuel pressure has to be set at the control pressure, typically 40-50 psi plus the boost pressure and most of the present day electric fuel pumps can't provide enough flow to be able to maintain the required 60-70 psi fuel pressure. The guys to talk to are the Langlo's, they have the fuel system on their big Hemi pretty well dialed in. Their motor is making about 2500+ hp and using a BSF (Brake Specific Fuel flow) of .6 lb/hp-hr they are burning around 4-5 gallons of gas per minute!! Only mechanical pumps can do this at 70+psi.

Rex


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 15, 2012, 10:02:49 AM
If all goes well WE should be able to finish the dry sump tank, this weekend---

WE really need the new oil pan so we can set the eng. in the car so much of the clearences of other things will have to conga line around it!! :?  Got in 3.5 hrs this morning 2.5 brackets ugh!!  I am so slow and my fabrication skills are not what I would love them to be!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 15, 2012, 09:58:42 PM
Oil Tank Oil Heater/Cooler

This is a used truck oil cooler I had lying around and we plumbed it with 1/2" water pipe the we had to neck down to the 3/8"   I drilled out the water pipe connectors to 7/16".  We  have air pressure tested this to 125 psi in a 5 gallon bucket of water---had to redo the screw in conection once and reweld it 3 times untill we got NO tiny bubbles--- one side down one to go!  Will then run through the end of the tank and plump ot exactly like the heater is on your car---we will pull water from below the thermostat and return it to the heater return on the water pump inlet. we will also plumb our surge tank into this line the water to the surge tank comes from above the thermostat---the highest place on the eng.

Took advantage of my wife being out of town to run the core through the dish washer to get it nice and clean!  In the upper pict you can barely see the pipe that will stub out through the face of this puppy!!  Today will make a doubler for the AN 16 that will feed the  filter that the pump intake hooks up to.

It looks like it will take 14-15 quarts to fill all the filters and keep the heat exchanger submerged,  just in the tank it will take 12. 


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 18, 2012, 10:17:18 AM
In special construction one spends a lot of time ---pondering in the morning over coffe and beingenginering in the evening ---waiting for the car to tell you what to do.  Sometimes one gets hung up by mundane things  like brake pedals--I thouhgt I had it last night---then this morning   I pondered up something else---started to the house for more coffee and to catch up on the computer---sat down---got back up went back to the shop with another modification twist---this time I drew it out on the floor---darn  it was so much simpler than any thing I had before---well sorta---when I build it I will take picts---not very fancy looking but very flexible---I think  :-o


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 18, 2012, 11:54:47 PM
DARN---what a werid day  but did get some  :roll: done  :roll:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 19, 2012, 10:34:28 PM
Great day in the shop!!!!

Freaky failure---unbelievable good luck!!

This is the rear stud that held the plate down over the camshaft the the dam thing was floating around but nothing fell in to the cam gallery--when we turned the ting over on the motor stand the washer fell through the push rod opening in the head an down in to the valve cover ---when we rotated it back up it fell and his the valve cover with a light tink---we all looked at each other---I roated it back upside down and it made another small sound--pulled thevalve cover and found a small washer---well that scared the bejesus out of us  we knew we had to pull the intake and see what happened!!  no damage---we got darn lucky  I now know why so many folks pull stuff apart and CHECK EVERYTHING after a dyno run!!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 19, 2012, 10:37:49 PM
later


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: bucketlist on June 19, 2012, 10:59:44 PM
Stainless;

"It has never loosened in the 12 years it has been in that configuration..."

Maybe the Bonneville salt will corrode it in place  :-)

I'd still put a pin in there.

...as they said aboard the Hindenburg, "We never had that problem before...."

Regards,  Neil  Tucson, AZ

Reminds me of the words of Carroll Smith in "Preparing to Win". He says you don't need to safety-wire everything on the race car, just those things you don't want to have fall off.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 19, 2012, 11:28:36 PM
what great luck---if that little washer handn't fallen and made a sound we would not have known about the failuer of the stud and we looking for the broken part!!!!!--found it wedged in beside a push rod left a minor minor scratch on one of the tapered push rods---lucky lucky lucky


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 19, 2012, 11:32:32 PM
Bill, we're hanging on every word.....


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 20, 2012, 12:16:20 AM
update:  John cme over early and stayed to 3:30  what a great help this guy is  Marty came over and stayed till almost 5--Andy droped by at 6:00 and we worked on the chute tubes and "bingengineered" till 8:00

a   Cut the chute tubes and stuck them in there
b  lots of work on the sump tank today
c  weld in-- cooling transfer pump
d  the brakes got some work yesterday and today


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 21, 2012, 11:51:15 PM
Got the front motor plate mostly done need the tabs and mounting bolt holes drilled and mounted!
Eng is in the car---not locked down ---almost---brackets brackets---foot throttle-- barckets brackets this stuff drives one mad some times---found out it goes better with beer---the charity beer of the day is Modello especial---my buddy Goose bought an 18 pack and had only had two disapper in 2 months---there have been 10 disappear in 5 days in the shop between Andy and I---charity beer tastes really swell be cause the price is sooo good :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on June 22, 2012, 12:11:10 AM
You guys drink too slow but Modelle is ok!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 22, 2012, 08:28:22 AM
us old guys have weak systems--some of us no longer are up to FULL strength beer 3 = a 6 pack of lites lol


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Captthundarr on June 22, 2012, 10:43:50 AM
Cheap date :-D


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 22, 2012, 02:44:32 PM
I am I am  :cry:---but not easily impressed  :roll:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Captthundarr on June 22, 2012, 04:50:30 PM
Well I am. like the buid. been following it for a while. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: bvillercr on June 22, 2012, 09:36:58 PM
Watching a military documentary on your 105 Thud, good stuff. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 22, 2012, 11:52:35 PM
link or what to watch for?  :-P


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: bvillercr on June 23, 2012, 01:02:06 AM
It was on the military channel, according to the documentary there were 78 B's made and the rest were mostly D's which was an extended nose.  The later 105 models were upgraded electronics.  800 and something made half of them shot down in Nam.  It was a good watch!!


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 25, 2012, 07:07:40 AM
Woody, had posted the links to the F-105 Squadron picts.  It really is tempting to rename this thing
"Wild Weassel" in honor of the Electronic Warfare versions and the fact that I want to duplicate the nose art of Art Afons Green Monster #5.

Reading about the Wild Weassels in Viet Nam is an intresting study in early air to air electronic warfare.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 25, 2012, 07:18:35 AM
Had a great day in the shop bracket racing closing in on the foot pedals--got the throttle right and the brakes wrong will have to make new mount.  What I should have done is make the mounts suit up and wait until someone could help me play with proper position.--But no old Mr impatient welded it in instead of tacking!  Get to make another---well if a long legged driver comes along we got him already fixed up!! 

Andy was able to join me for  a couple hrs and we refit the trash tray in the liffter galley to remove any miss alignment with the stud.  Cleaned every thing up, move on to the intake manifold. Today to Lopers and buy some new intake gaskets and other parts then back on with the top sides.  Waiting, waiting, hurry up and wait for something that was supposed to be here 10 day ago now I find out another 10 days---  :evil:  :evil:  :evil: thoughts


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on June 25, 2012, 09:40:07 AM
Woody, had posted the links to the F-105 Squadron picts.  It really is tempting to rename this thing
"Wild Weassel" in honor of the Electronic Warfare versions and the fact that I want to duplicate the nose art of Art Afons "Ole Noisy" his Green Monster #5.

Reading about the Wild Weassels in Viet Nam is an intresting stucy in early air to air electronic warfare.


Bill;

"Ol' Noisy" wasn't Arfon's car-- it was (is) owned & driven by "Red" Greth of Arizona Speed Sport. Red comes to lunch now & then with our informal group of car guys on Thursdays here in Tucson. "Wild Weasel" sounds like a good name to me!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 25, 2012, 11:48:21 AM
Wild Weasel has a lot better ring to it & definately appropriate. For what it's worth, you have one vote.
Do you still have the fin's off the 105 tank & are they looking for a home?
  Sid.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: DND on June 25, 2012, 04:40:11 PM
Hi Neil

Red's out of site Blown Fuel roadster & Mooningham's 554 Blown fuel coupe were my 2 most favorite non dragsters form the earley 60's, tell Red hi for me as a big fan of his orange roadster and it was one of the best !!!

And the best thing about those 2 cars is they both had the pipes going straight back under the car, and boy did they sound good on a big load of nitro kinda like rap city.

Jack Christman's first Blown fuel Comet was 3rd for cool sounding fuelers, and light them up pertty good too.

Don


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 25, 2012, 05:04:55 PM
Wild Weasel has a lot better ring to it & definately appropriate. For what it's worth, you have one vote.
Do you still have the fin's off the 105 tank & are they looking for a home?
  Sid.


Two  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 25, 2012, 05:18:13 PM
Neal, the article in the Phoenix Repugnant identified it as A A #5. The fins came off  the rear part of some other tank I got from Summner, not the 105---they may have a  function in the future. we may use them as part of a smaller diffuser.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on June 25, 2012, 05:33:25 PM
Neal, the article in the Phoenix Repugnant identified it as A A #5. The fins came off  the rear part of some other tank I got from Summner, not the 105---they may have a  function in the future. we may use them as part of a smaller diffuser.

Bill;

You can't believe much of what is in the news and that is a good example. It was Gary "Red" Greth's car.

I wasn't the one who asked about the fins-- sorry.

Don- yes, I'll tell Red hello the next time I see him.

Regards, Neil  Tucson.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 25, 2012, 07:26:29 PM
Sparky, I have a mint 105 tank hanging in the barn with the other tanks. I intend to use two of the fins on the liner, it's just a shame to scavenge off a museum quality piece.
  Sid.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud>>morphing to>> Wild Weasel
Post by: SPARKY on June 25, 2012, 11:03:59 PM
Kiwi please post picts of your rafter queen---  my tank was a bomb bay ferry tank not out in the air it had no fins the back was blunt.


Title: Re: The Thud Spud>> morphing >>the Wild Weasel
Post by: SPARKY on June 26, 2012, 06:37:40 AM
http://www.burrusspta.org/105graphics.html

The F-105 G s were the Wild Weasels


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76LbvnoIDkE



Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 26, 2012, 08:19:53 AM
Looks like you have a 105 belly tank & I have a 105 wing tank. I also have a 101 belly tank, same as my lakester, & four bran new F4 tanks.
  Sid.

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=81&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1262&bih=622&addh=36&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=lKH98xO3NTZO0M:&imgrefurl=http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_info.php%3Fproducts_id%3D2840&docid=pk8F2SVtOxS87M&imgurl=http://www.fspilotshop.com/images/F-105_6.jpg&w=640&h=480&ei=ALLpT-zMAqec2QWru-y-CA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=930&vpy=140&dur=34036&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=171&ty=149&sig=112104005166697788929&page=5&tbnh=134&tbnw=192&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:81,i:33


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: Skip Pipes on June 26, 2012, 04:36:19 PM
Three  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: the Wild Weasel
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 26, 2012, 04:43:40 PM
. I also have a 101 belly tank, same as my lakester, & four bran new F4 tanks.

Hmmmmmm, they'll keep you regular. :cheers:


Title: Re: The Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 26, 2012, 09:54:24 PM
Only because I cant get me weet bix, here's the lost "d" I owe ya Goggs. :cheers:
 Sparky, are you looking for a clean tank? What dia is yours?
  Sid


Title: The Wild Weasel
Post by: SPARKY on June 26, 2012, 11:51:48 PM
mine is 30"  didn't know I was looking for another tank :-P


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 27, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
Dam what a wasted day as for as LSR was concerened--I know better :cry: I know better :cry: I know better :-o  I should have gone to a good U-joint site like Spicer and noodled out my "HYBRID",  "Special", "conversion u-joint"  maybe today after  spending the last 1.5 hours online and trotting back and forth to the shop with calipers I have identified the correct combo---

Cleveland  5-1313-X
D1 1.125 brg cap dia with 2.625" inner clip retainer
D2 1.188 brg cap dia with 3.625" outer retainer dim.
and # 3-70-48x strap kit  such is the way with our wonderful GM 7.5" 10 bolt with its metric yolk

Dodge  we get more smart and less recall so---- it  back to being just like a kid again---no wonder we old geezers enjoy this stuff so much, except for the aches and pains, it just like being 14-16 and learning all over again  :-P  :cheers:


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 27, 2012, 08:33:38 AM
I thought you said your tank was rough, I was going to offer to donate a clean one but I don't have any 30's. The 101 is my biggest tank & that is 29.
Sonoma 7.5 has a flat flange 4 bolt style if anybody is interested.
  Sid.


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 27, 2012, 09:05:50 AM
I bet I will explore that in the future!


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Jack Gifford on June 27, 2012, 11:29:42 PM
Quote from: kiwi belly tank link=topic=9404.msg195308#msg195308 date=1340804018 ... 4 bolt style...
[/quote
'splain please?


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Koncretekid on June 28, 2012, 05:24:32 AM

Dodge  we get more smart and less recall so---- it  back to being just like a kid again---no wonder we old geezers enjoy this stuff so much, except for the aches and pains, it just like being 14-16 and learning all over again  :-P  :cheers:

My father had a plate hanging on the wall with an old Pennsylvania Dutch saying on it.  "We get too soon oldt and too late schmart!"


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 28, 2012, 08:40:17 AM
The 4 bolt flange is a type of yoke that is available for rear axles---go to Spicers site  lots of different ways to skin various cats when it comes to u-joints and drive shafts.


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 28, 2012, 02:57:27 PM
The 4bolt flat flange won't twist under extreme load like a half cup style can. GM used this type on the Sonoma's for this very reason. I found them on 05 or later SUV's, not sure if they go any earlier. You're giong to need the matching yoke off the end of the drive shaft to go with it.
If you run a half cup style yoke on anything, get your dial indicator out & check the runout. They can be vibrating, HP sucking bitch.
  Sid.


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Jack Gifford on June 29, 2012, 01:12:35 AM
So... you use the flat yoke on the pinion shaft? And thus move the twist-potential to the driveshaft which now needs a long offset to the bearing saddles? Splain, please...

Comically: As I read that post, I thought you were saying that member "Sonoma 7.5" had a flat flange 4-bolt style tank available!


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on June 29, 2012, 09:50:10 AM
Jeez Jack, are we both speaking english here?
The flat pinion flange for the General Motors Sonoma 7.5/7.75 differential (you still with me?) wont make the drive shaft any weaker than it already is, the UJ (universal joint) is the same distance from the end of the pinion as the two leg yoke & will not change drive shaft length but will eliminate the possability of runout with the two leg style. UJ's take HP because they don't run at a constant speed, out of round UJ's take more.
This information to be used or discorded as you see fit.
  Sid.
ps, Dr Goggles will be my spell checker today, I've left a tip mate. 


Title: Re: the Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 29, 2012, 11:07:11 PM
On the Spicer site I don't know what they would recomend for angle differences for a shaft that spins around 8900.  got out the dial indicator to night will set it up i the am to just what the run out is :?

  WE are making some progress the motor plates are nailed down, the trans mount is shimmed the driveshaft is I think done---will drill the two holes that will lock down the rear axle Sat PM
Francis will be up fr. Tucson we will finalized the Air intake ,  the brake and throttle are workable
 we are getting real close to dropping the frt axles ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on June 30, 2012, 11:23:00 AM
we are going to have to ply the weasel with some adult beverages or something to get it to tell us what the air intake is going to look like---I must have pondered this thing15 times---only a vague idea what it will look like.  I may have to call the "tank think" shrink!!!  :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 01, 2012, 07:10:09 AM
A good day in the shop a bad night with the camera---sorry guys---will do a better job with the camera tonight!!

Francis and I worked out the  air intake logistics.  we should be able to take it off with out having to  disconect fuel and throttle -- LSR is such a series of trade offs  The last two nights Andy and I have beingeeniered the chute tubes---stilll do not have release levers worked out.  Andy has run the line to the frt fire nozzel we will T into that line for the nozzel under the drivers back that will  spray the bulk head.  We have had a canopy "revealation" it now will hinge on the side. What changed was that it was easier for me to get out by putting my leg over the side to make mor room when I scrunched forward to get my helment out.  We will get  worked out  which side  to get out of later!!  We are meeting for breakfast at 6:45 then we should have a good day in the shop:  Plans reinstall the intake, frt motor plate and water pump, start the dry sump pump install--need the pan--- do not have ---2 weeks late and counting  but we have been working on STUFF-- we hope to have the eng by plumbing finished before we pull the motor to put the pan on:

Biggies left: BODY & CANOPY, cooling plumbing, fuel plumbing,   and jillions and jillions of small one act dramas!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 01, 2012, 08:18:01 AM
 lets try again

I do not know how much run out is norm but I have +.005 & -.007 for a total variance of .012  :?
We will nail down the rear axle today--- the back of the car needs a push bar wheel and the combo push bar and chute anchors finished as well as backend of the pilot and chute cans secured and made operable.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: DND on July 01, 2012, 02:30:11 PM
Hi, i have an idea

I see a curved tube in front of your rear end, you could clamp a flat steel plate to that tube and the outer frame rail.

Then put your mag indacator base on that plate for a solid reading? the way it is now it might move a little on that round tube.

Just my 2 cents worth

Don


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 01, 2012, 11:52:50 PM
Andy and I had a pretty good day---intake is back on---sure do need that oil pan---Started hanging the various pieces on the frt mtr plate and such!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 02, 2012, 08:20:23 PM
Sparky, put your magnet base on the pinion snubber pad of the housing & set it up on the bearing caps. Ping it a few times to make sure it zeros then check the other three. If you have an odd cap joint, check them in pairs. If you have any more than .005 or .006, reseat the jiont & check it again. The tube is only relevant to the the accuracy of the fab & is normally balanced out.
Trans shaft/pinion angle are critical being that close together & I see you have a "fine china" Harbor Freight angle finder that I consider a ball park gauge. Better off to make up a dummy shaft to go up the back of the trans & through the pinion bearing races in the diff. You're going to have to be right on the money with the crank centerline but this way you know it's right on.
On a build from scratch, it's best to put the whole package on a center bar & build it in. I don't know how you did yours, this is more of a general info statement for others.
I envy you having many hands in your build, it sure speeds things up.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 02, 2012, 11:16:08 PM
 Thanks for the feed back---as far as helping hands----every little bit helps---these guys are WAY more help than a little bit :cheers: :cheers:

Jeeze  I forgot how tedious it is to PLUMB these things when you are dealing with "Packaging issues"  Andy and I  hit the An hoses and fittings boxes today all day long ---- when you are trying to  be AWARE of the trade offs---you become very aware of trying to dance around all of these things ----darn it---- we need the pan--- we are just guessing in the lower dry sump area without it!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 03, 2012, 01:01:42 AM
I'm also playing the guessing game without the B&J overdrive unit's, I'm stuck in the "hurry up n wait" mode in drivelineville.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 04, 2012, 08:14:55 AM
yesterday was a very good day Wild Weasel is on the floor with for the first time with the tires on!!!!!!! YEAH!!!

  John came over and we  worked on how the canopy is going to be cut and began to mock up some windscreen lines-- big day with tape, knives, sissors and card board---finally found a reason to like the almost worthless Chicom cardboard boxes theya are so flimsy when playing paper dolls--- it rolls and cuts easier


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 04, 2012, 08:26:44 AM
 it rides just a little higher in the front than I thought  it would--  doesn't have much rake but that can be changed---not now though


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on July 04, 2012, 08:33:53 AM
Love it when those major steps make things appear like a lot has happened. It really does things for the morale.  :-D :-D :-D  :cheers: :cheers:

The problem is that all the little things that take just as long or longer often don't show nearly as well.  :roll: :roll: :roll:  :| :|

Keep up the great work Sparky. It really is looking good.

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 04, 2012, 08:44:14 AM
Paper dolls widscreen # 1  Me 109 version

Coming up maybe today #2 version SR-71 version 

Marty brought Tom by today from Southwest Fabricators he offered the use of their big slip rolls to roll the top and bottom of the rest of the car  also if we go with the  109 version we can break the skin and that will add lots of rigidity to the canopy and it should be fairly stable at speed remember the rear of the canopy area was projected to generate a fairly pronounced low pressuer area.

The 109 version  will only stick up about 3 -3.5" at front but will have to have larger side panes to comply with the 120 deg. visabilty rule requirement.  The front panel gives very good forward visibility and we will have a side  diagional frame member that will be hidden from the driver because it will be hidden behind the fron roll bar.

Whoo ee  it is begining to look like a car--got a call from the Sry sump folks and the made a second Tueday will ship it in bare metal--seems like all he got was promises from the company doing the finish coating---bare metal will not bother me  so next week we will get the eng out and finish assembly it---now to finish all of the support systems so that it can be live when we go back!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 04, 2012, 09:42:47 AM
Yep, you're at the stage that makes the blood flow pick up speed, looking good mate. :cheers:
What's the wheel base?
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on July 04, 2012, 11:17:11 AM
SPARKY, DO YOU PLAN ON ADDING RADIUS RODS TO THE FRONT AXLE??


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 04, 2012, 11:52:49 AM
no radius rods planned  on 205 wb


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on July 04, 2012, 03:21:57 PM
Funny Sparky, I have been contemplating the 109 shape on my car as well.

I would be afraid of running w/o some struts or radius rods. My axle  is much narrower and I am making DOM supoport struts.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on July 04, 2012, 03:43:10 PM
Coming together fast now Sparky.

Can you fit if the canopy takes the same line as the original tank?

Cheers
jon



Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on July 04, 2012, 05:55:23 PM
If Sparky set up his rack parallel to the axle and then runs long links that are approx the same length as the distance from the axle mounting bracket to the spindle the axle and links will form a parallelogram so that any deflection of the axle back due to rolling resistance loads will not cause the wheels to toe in or out, or at least a very minimum amount. I am sure this is what he had in mind.

Sparke, what is your axle size? O.D., wall thickness and length from spindle to spindle? What is the width between the axle mounting brackest? I'll do a little "pie are square, three bags full" and tell you what the deflection is.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 04, 2012, 06:09:02 PM
Jon we are going to put a piano hinge on one side now there will be a slight pie shape to the canopy fore and aft--

Rex you are correct the rack and pinion is virtually parallel to the axle as well as the tie rods

  it is a Speedway Gasser axle  46" and it is 2 inch .250 chromolly  if my memory serves me

The weight is supported 14.5 inches apart by frame members
 the back of the axel is welded 12.5" apart to the verticals that are bolted to the frt plate the hoops of the axle are inside of that but my guess one would figure the deflection fore and aft from the 12.5" dimension


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 05, 2012, 07:07:22 AM
Jon, somehow when I read your question yesterday it didn't register ---

yes we can still get in the  original lines---the windscreen is to get the flat part to 50 degrees--- for better visibility---we sort of tested  it and that is close to the angle of late model cars viewed from the rear standing on a box it doesnt seem very disruptive--we may tuff it but we will not spend much time---we are fast running out of it!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on July 05, 2012, 11:07:53 AM
Sparky,
I did a quick look at your axle and with the axle constrained as you have it a 100 lb. load at the end of the axle will make it deflect .0006 inches. Doesn't look to me that radius rods are called for here and being that the axle is pretty stiff in bending I would not think that there would be any sort of frequency problems. What this also says is that the vertical deflection of the axle will be directly proportional to this deflection for 100 lbs. That is to say that if your front wheel has a load of 1000 lbs vertically from the weight of the car the axle will deflect upward .006 inches, again pretty darn stiff.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 05, 2012, 06:01:10 PM
Thanks Rex  the old car had this set up with just a slightly wider attachment point and we had no problems, allways nice to run the math though


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Rex Schimmer on July 05, 2012, 06:31:53 PM
Also nothing like some first hand experience!!

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 05, 2012, 11:07:24 PM
body is marked for cutting the canopy---and back off we should have a good day!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 07, 2012, 12:25:34 AM
Brackett racing ----rear chute tube pilot launcher mounts---diag on the push bar/chute anchor, canopy lower rails,  water tank mounts, ect ect,  we  will---had LOTS of vistors Al Eishanbac  sp?????---said he should fire his motor tomorrow---MARTY, Bob Mike and Andy came by after 7:00 pm as slow and weird as it is we are now knocking out things that we should not have to visit again!!!!!! yeah !!!!

forgot to mention---brown santa did a fly by drop by the front door  yesterday sometime ---we will be pulling the eng this weekend and installing and "hosing" the new pan!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 07, 2012, 08:29:15 AM
next 2 weeks will be the semi thrash  :-om  then we move to--- 2 weeks to go thrash-- in which will have an added dimension---loading and getting BUFTer and the trailer ready.  lots and lots to do  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Crosley on July 07, 2012, 05:10:09 PM
Brackett racing ----rear chute tube pilot launcher mounts---diag on the push bar/chute anchor, canopy lower rails,  water tank mounts, ect ect,  we  will---had LOTS of vistors Al Eishanbac  sp?????---said he should fire his motor tomorrow---MARTY, Bob Mike and Andy came by after 7:00 pm as slow and weird as it is we are now knocking out things that we should not have to visit again!!!!!! yeah !!!!



Al Eshenbaugh ,  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 07, 2012, 10:06:27 PM
long day---got the dry sump system plumbed


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 08:44:40 AM
Darn near 1 full day ---  some times it hurts more because you'r so slow than the next day from crawling up and down off the floor trying  to heard these hose snakes

But it's begining to look like a race eng, in a race car!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 08:49:39 AM
IOUs from earlier  :-D  Thanks to Dr. G' digi cam gift

3 & 4 rear chute mounts and tubes

6 is the start of the of the canopy--these are2.250" .062 ripped length wise that fits over the 2" upper frame rail---the will be the lower rail of the canopy.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on July 08, 2012, 10:36:44 AM
Sparky, it's coming along nicely! :cheers:

I can't wait to see it on the salt!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 11:53:21 AM
This is begining to tell on me---or I am telling on myself---I came in to  get some help from drugs----ALEVE--- the ODD--  Old Dessert Dog--drug of choice  :-D  well second choice here's to the first  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 05:42:26 PM
Found the plate for the nose on the Wild Weasel  its the tail end of a pylon tank off a F-86 Saberjet made in 1954---goes well with my F-105 Thunderchief

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/F-86a_sabre_fu-178_kemble_arp.jpg/640px-F-86a_sabre_fu-178_kemble_arp.jpg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 05:56:53 PM
Marty came over and made the tray that we will attache the scoop that Francis is making  this will be 14" wide and 21" long fits over the reversion plate and under the carb gasket.  We will bring the throttle and fuel in to the scoop plenum from below so when we take the scoop off


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 06:06:23 PM
Bob dropped by and we discussed making and attaching the back body---then Jon dropped in and while Marty was making the scoop mounting plate on the mill---- John and I got busy setting up the Plasma Cutter and grabbing straight edges---and a broken band saw blade that makes a great batten for bending around a cyl. shape. 

I was a coward and let Marty cut while John and I held the tank and the straight edges --- but we are closer to a canopy---for we definitely will need one now


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 06:10:23 PM
sometimes me forget


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 08, 2012, 06:11:51 PM
Found the plate for the nose on the Wild Weasel  its the tail end of a pylon tank off a F-86 Saberjet made in 1954---goes well with my F-105 Thunderchief

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/F-86a_sabre_fu-178_kemble_arp.jpg/640px-F-86a_sabre_fu-178_kemble_arp.jpg

Sabre tank, you're in good company Billy....

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/TankbuildJune06009.jpg)

The top of the cab(with the windows in it) is the bottom front(?) part of the piece that was cut off what you see here because the  firewall is the widest part and the scoop is the tip of the lower part..........yeah, that made sense...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z187/fourdoorshitbox/_NZS2608.jpg)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2012, 06:17:32 PM
Turns out the nose of the Wild Weasel is the back end of a F-86 pylon tank we will use the big hole for being to take the nose on and off and the flopper lid for the beer cooler is off a cart that is used to move hot grease in larger commercial kitchens---
 one more thing that gets a new life on the Wild Weasel  so much is being recycled on this car we maybe should have considered calling it "ROAD KILL"


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 09, 2012, 12:07:00 AM
Question of the day-  :-P - what could I put on the bottom of the 3/16" alum plate to inhibit heat transfer from the eng. below


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: maguromic on July 09, 2012, 12:42:30 AM
You can use the Gold Reflective Film from C&R racing http://www.crracing.com/gold-reflective-film  This is what the Indy cars use and what I am using  on my air box. Tony


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Koncretekid on July 09, 2012, 05:38:40 AM
Unless the aluminum is actually in contact with the hot parts, it won't conduct the heat.  You could just polish the aluminum using successively finer sandpaper and finish with a buffing wheel and aluminum polish. In fact, polishing the outside as well will reflect a lot of the sun's heat and keep it cooler.  Probably a lot cheaper than gold.
Tom


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 09, 2012, 06:11:34 AM
The gold foil is probably the idea, or you could just polish the bottom of it, we did that in a lot of places after I spoke to a local tuner garage guy..."what do you guys use to shield heat from those big turdbos( :roll:)?"...I was expecting him to try and sell me something..."can ya weld aluminium?"....."we use heavy plate and mirror polish it"

we also used a sheet of fibro-cement stuck between two sheets of 1.6mm Al as a heat barrier above the tailpipe junction.

loooooookin good Sparky. :cheers:



Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 09, 2012, 08:56:53 AM
Dr. G  ---lets see now--both of our cars started out as aux. tanks for the USA and Aus.,  as missels were just being developed, the choice of delevery systems for A bombs!!!

Back then speed and flying under the radar was about the only way to increase odds of succcess!
The Thud had a repetetiuaon for not being able to turn and really had didn't handle slow very well as in landing. 

It is intresting to me that we both ended up using the same F-86 tank  for  added streamling and incorpored the junction that is part ot the tank---it looks like y'all made it part of the canopy junction and I am making it so that we can take the nose off the get to the frt axle, and minimize the trailer overhang!! 

Dodge ---the political correctness is killing.. me we both have hybrids---cross breading-- fighters and bombers, trying to go faster and we are recycling---ohhh how green we are!!! I still don't by global warming though!!

Heres to OUR bomber moms and the same SABER Jet dad

Geezz--we are pracitically hillbilly cousins---no dna testing allowed

heres to yuah cus --one hillbilly to another   :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers: not quite Pattons toast


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 09, 2012, 12:59:46 PM
Koncrete;

The problem with using aluminum as a heat shield is that it is not very effective. True, it may look shiny but that's not what is important. In the infrared is where the important characteristics lie. Polished aluminum looks shiny to our eyes but this is only true in the visible portion of the spectrum, in the infrared, it isn't that "shiny". It actually absorbs quite a bit of heat (heat is in the infrared) and does not re-radiate it away very efficiently. So it gets hot.

A shiny surface does not automatically give it a heat reflective property; grab a chrome-plated wrench that has been lying out in the southern AZ sun for 15 minutes and you'll see what I mean. Gold is the most effective heat shielding and it takes only a very thin coating-- all those satellites that NASA launched had gold /mylar foil heat shields to keep the sun's radiation from cooking everything. End of boring lecture.............. :-P

BTW, Bill-- I used two F-86 Saberjet rear- view mirrors in my hot rod. Slightly convex metal mirrors and their curvature matches the windshield very well.  :cheers: to the F-86

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 09, 2012, 04:46:15 PM
and here's the Waza-Vudu , owned and built by Wayne Mumford here in Aus, the body of the car is from a RF101 Voodoo aaaaaaand the canopy and cowell are the tip of the same Sabre tank that was then given to us.... Wayne said "Dunno if you guys can do anything with this?".....The Rev's eyes kind of bugged out of his head a bit when he saw it and he just grabbed it and stuck it in the back of my van...he's got like cartoon character "laser eyes" or something and in one quick pass had visualized the Sabre tank cut axially and laid on top of our Canberra. He was spot on.....anyway here's the Waza-Vudu

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/vudu002.jpg)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on July 09, 2012, 04:56:40 PM
 
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
:cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on July 09, 2012, 05:40:45 PM
and here's the Waza-Vudu , owned and built by Wayne Mumford here in Aus, the body of the car is from a RF101 Voodoo aaaaaaand the canopy and cowell are the tip of the same Sabre tank that was then given to us.... Wayne said "Dunno if you guys can do anything with this?".....The Rev's eyes kind of bugged out of his head a bit when he saw it and he just grabbed it and stuck it in the back of my van...he's got like cartoon character "laser eyes" or something and in one quick pass had visualized the Sabre tank cut axially and laid on top of our Canberra. He was spot on.....anyway here's the Waza-Vudu

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/SaltStuff/vudu002.jpg)

I have been in love with that tank since my pal Whodaky sent me shots of it many years ago.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 09, 2012, 05:55:31 PM
Sparky, dont really know what you're after for heat shield but I have a friend that makes custom turbo blankets, manifold blankets, heat shields etc. The stuff is tripple layer silica cloth that is 1/2" thick. You can put your hand on the stuff when its on the hottest turbo & its like putting your hand on warm laundry, its that good. I would wear a fire suit made out of the stuff if it could be SFI'd.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: John Burk on July 09, 2012, 11:15:28 PM
Shiny vs heat transfer reminds me of years ago my inexperienced friends volunteering to pull my dragster plugs after a run . "Watch out for the chrome headers" . 10 seconds later YAAAH ! Shiny things conduct heat well but radiate it poorly . If the plenum floor was several thin layers with air gaps , the place for shiny would be the interior surfaces where radiation is the primary means of heat transfer .


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 10, 2012, 09:20:13 PM
GREAT day !
Went to bed last night flumuxed baout how in the world I was goint to cross breed the nose to the tank----wallah---- woke up this morning and as I was getting out of bed---the car spoke to me---TURKEY feathers---seems like the other day when I was reasearching the SaberLiner tank---I saw an after burners "turkey feathers"---so below you see the results of this revaelation and my new to me plasma cutter
 

Hit the shop at 5:30 to a break around 8:00 for breakfast  Andy came over at 10:00, John at 10:20  Andy had to leave at 12:00   Marty came at 4:00 and tacked what we had gotten done---I also got a good lesson on how to keep a good welder happy----NEAT::::

Neat orderly copes
Neat clean prep
Neat straight cut---in other words----I he is going to weld it ---he wants to be proud of it---my mock up standards are not up to his ---final WELD ---standards
  I will work to do my part so that he will be proud to weld on my car!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 10, 2012, 09:21:39 PM
more of great day

We had to weld in some strap  on top of the cage to keep the tank "up" so that we can make the "to be made" canopy stay in alingment!!
5&6 are some more "alingment" opportunities"


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 10, 2012, 09:22:59 PM
Great day results:

We still have a good bit to do to get the tanks so that it "ALIGNS" consistiently--

The Weasels nose transplant is almost done---next up---- the cosmetic surgeon to finish the job and make the "WEASEL look purty!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 11, 2012, 05:27:41 AM
Woke up thinking about this "STUFF"---building a car is like so many other things in life---you get on a roll and you get get tunnel vision---When Marty and I were studying the nose piece the previous night  I made a passing comment about we would get it cobbled on there somehow---he said  " I don't do cobble."
Well John and I got on a roll and I got so fixsated on what it was taking to get the thing on  "STRAIGHT" --  I never thought about what we should have been doing to prep the metal so that it would not look "cobbled" so that if and when we go there---it would be ready to properly weld.

We are going to have a nose that will be structurally sound but could look  better if I had trimmed the pieces so the welds would have be straighter and not look like I country boyed them on.  I wasn't concerend be couse I was planning on using some "Bondoli" to float the nose contour---which I now think we may be able to work it to ok.

Some of this car I have definitely "over thought" definitely not the nose transplant


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 12, 2012, 10:55:31 PM
 a fairly good day---got the new pan all cleaned up with degreaser and the pressure washer then put it on hopefully for the last time---then I took the Barnes pump apart---before I could do that i had to take the back plate off  it had a 12 point inner fitting---I had never worked with those before--sorta looked like a star the T40 was too small and the T45  was too large---went tool shopping could not find andything  in between----so I called Barnes thech service and asked what in the world special tool it took---they replied a 1/4" Allen wrench----I  CRACKED up----the tech chuckled and said " When you saw the 12 point you thought it took something special didn't you?---yeppers  who said there is nothing new under the sun.

Andy helped me with the pump for a short while before he went in to work--- and Marty came by after 5:00 pm and he welded on the dry sump tank.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: PorkPie on July 13, 2012, 05:04:13 AM
Sparky,

following how you and the team are trashing to get the racer ready for Bonneville,

I was just thinking....

if you and the team than at last on the salt....someone is saying....."the whole time I have the feeling we forgot something at home.....can someone say me where the trailer with the lakester is..................."

Sparky, all the best for the work and I hope I will see you at the salt in August, with the lakester....doesn't matter how he looks...


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 13, 2012, 05:58:17 AM
 :-D  PP thanks for the smiles ---we still belive we can be there with a completed car--  it is going to be INTRESTING!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: gkabbt on July 14, 2012, 04:57:02 PM
Sparky,

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I thought you might enjoy seeing your old car here at Loring from today.

http://s947.photobucket.com/albums/ad318/GKABBT/Loring%2007142012/?action=view&current=IMG_3976.jpg

I thought this car looked familiar when it came in yesterday. I was talking with the owner (CRS has kicked in) this afternoon and he told me it was your old car. I took him on a trip down memory lane when Randy DuPree used to run it at Maxton, albeit much shorter.

The pic above is from this morning and was the 1st run for the car. It was at 175 this due to transmission issues.
They were going to try and get another run in today.

Hope you enjoy,
Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2012, 11:03:26 PM
Gregg,  Thanks for sharing--I miss old RATICAL---may he be as kind to John as he was to me GO JOHN GO  :cheers:  :cheers: :cheers:

Looks like John has spiffed up the old Rat!!  I'll bet old rat will like that!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
Shop day  I worked to noon by myself --Andy was able to join me afterwards---this is a testimony to southern BEINGEnginering---using the shop vent control as a plumb bob to check the nose transplant---we got'er pretty dam straight--- with the nose transplant almost complete---lots and lots of sick preverted humor about---FPDR---female pleasure device Racing, we are talking bout calling Duracell; Everready, and the Battery Bunny  about CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP!!!!!

#1 Redneck plumb  bob
#2 more of same
#3  gives you an idea of how much air will go under nose & the upper small hole is for the axle and the lower one is for the tie rod!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2012, 11:16:27 PM
more:  Woody, Pork Pie & Skip H. these are for you---

for us unwashed masses --- inagine a duracell pair of batteries painted on the cockpit area,  the hood scoop may end up looking like an on-off switch!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on July 15, 2012, 08:26:52 AM
Ran some numbers for you Sparky! F86 plus F105 = F191 times 2 = F382 minus 55 mph = 327 mph   :-o

See you next month on the salt!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 15, 2012, 08:57:33 AM
That's real sharp Sparky!
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
WOW---bracket racing at its finest---this is why it is so tough some times in the shop 6.5 hrs and all Andy and I to show for it are these 2 straps

But when we pull them off and take out all the tanks flip the car and finish welding in the "Flash Shields"and such---  yes sirree Mr Glen Barrett SIR  we have made flash panels--- that will be installed under the seat  and the rear of the cage.  These flash shields are real light steel and will barley be tacked in.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 15, 2012, 07:44:41 PM
OK Bill-- I've gotta ask..."What's a flash shield"?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2012, 09:30:26 PM
Neil it is this force field shiel that protects you from a--- blast force that forces its way in the direction of travel inside the outer barrrier of the vechicle as it procedes down the race track----so much double speak--- 

We are sealing the back of the drivers cage from the outer skin----just in case we have an explosion that blows the seal of the outer skin to the hoop that is behind the drivers area---ie the bulkhead the cage will be sealed and has its own panels some are .109 an thes we are doing now are about.062 under the driver and sealing off the back 1/2 of the 18" deep helment area.  In other words if an explosion blows fire forward we are trying to protect drivers upper body and the saftey harness---from flame by having an inner skin around a lot of the drivers area---will post be fore and afters


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 15, 2012, 10:27:01 PM
OK, Bill- I think I understand. Good idea!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 16, 2012, 10:20:52 AM
Neil, water tight & flame resistant firewall are required in the rules.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 16, 2012, 11:57:41 AM
I know Sid; I just never heard that term before.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 16, 2012, 06:43:37 PM
Neil,  I had seen some where in the past when a eng bay explosion had balloon tede body  and made the body sealing non existant--- fuel and fire were blown into the drivers compartment and caused much havoc!!  what we are doing may or may not help!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 16, 2012, 09:17:56 PM
Bill;

Yes, I can see where an explosion could do that. How about building in "blow-out panels" in the engine compartment so that an explosion will blow out those panels and then not generate enough internal pressure to damage the firewall sealing?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 16, 2012, 11:43:18 PM
Neil,  I would like to say I was smart enought to say that we had planned for that but we are not---but we may have gotten lucky---the panel abore the eng and below the eng are going to be more or less hard mounted---the side panels will be made in such a way as the will sorta have
to be "pinched" much like you would grab the ends of cards to bend fan shuffle them.----The sides will be  easily removeable for service of the plugs and  to run the valves.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on July 17, 2012, 01:04:59 PM
Neil,  I had seen some where in the past when a eng bay explosion had balloon tede body  and made the body sealing non existant--- fuel and fire were blown into the drivers compartment and caused much havoc!!  what we are doing may or may not help!!

Yeah, I have seen that as well. The results were ugly and scary :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on July 17, 2012, 01:20:14 PM
I suggested blow out panels to the SCTA board several years ago and it was turned down. I think any sealed engine area should have a blow out panel to prevent side panels from expanding with a big engine failure. I talked to Sparky at he May meet and he agreed to my suggestion on the secondary panels.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 17, 2012, 01:30:08 PM
Glen;

The only drawback of blowout panels that I can think of is the possibility that aerodynamic pressure could cause then to dislodge. Even so, it's not as serious as a window blowout; there are not hundreds of pieces of glass to pick up off the track. The risk to the vehicle is that the missing panel may cause instability (maybe). An explosion creates high enough peak overpressure that it should be able to hold in place during a high speed run yet be able to be blown out in an explosion. A closed container is an invitation to disaster. I remember blowing up lots of tin cans with carbide when I was a kid.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 17, 2012, 02:11:08 PM
It's desirable to have the body panel at the firewall area, fixed to the car for that very reason. My new liner is that way & I did that with three other cars too. On the Herbert Steen liner I made that panel part of the firewall due to the bigger risk of the driver being behind the grenade.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on July 17, 2012, 02:22:18 PM
This is why i am fully sheeting my rollbars down to my riders tub.
Being in a glass body that at least the top 1/2 will have to come off for maintenance I'm not confident in the body firewall seal.
After discussion on here I am putting some bolt in panels so cutting equipment can get to the barwork if needed.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Glen on July 17, 2012, 02:37:58 PM
Blow out panels on funny cars have a cable retainer to keep them attached to the vehicle.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 17, 2012, 02:43:08 PM
Good idea, Glen.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: DND on July 17, 2012, 03:26:33 PM
A retainer cable would have to be short or long enough so the panel does not get near a tire, then you could have double trouble with a tire blow out too.

Don


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: manta22 on July 17, 2012, 03:32:59 PM
Hmmm... maybe I spoke too soon-- the idea of a panel flailing away on the end of a tether at high speed is not one I like-- it could beat the car to pieces!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Elmo Rodge on July 17, 2012, 06:14:54 PM
Then could it possibly be hinged? Wayno


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on July 17, 2012, 06:38:35 PM
In industry most burst panels are solid mounted and not reusable.

(http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6607003-0-large.jpg)

(http://www.powderhandling.com.au/images/userfiles/image/Pressure%20Systems(2).jpg)


Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 17, 2012, 07:25:31 PM
You guys might have wandered off on an over thinking tangent.   :?
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 17, 2012, 08:12:27 PM
You guys might have wandered off on an over thinking tangent.   :?
  Sid.

here was me thinking that's what ear-drums are for..... It is ANOTHER one of the contingencies you need to take into account when building. To someone like Tony it might look like small beer, their roadster is being built with an isolated tub from what I remember, for most of us sacrificial safety items are hard to quantify........the crash testing we refer to in LSR is post-mortem and what with so many different shapes ,weights and forms it is a complex thing to get your head around. That leaves us with the fact that a lot of the intrinsic knowledge of crashes is in the heads of the officials who deal with the aftermath and we trust them to come up with safety revisions that are relevant and based on sound engineering principles.


The "large volume explosion" scenario isn't one I spent much time thinking about during our build, however our compartment is largely plated in and there are escape routes for gases in the engine bay but I will be considering "weak spots" to be incorporated in to the cowl.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 18, 2012, 07:21:23 AM
According to DD the weak spot is between the steering wheel and the seat back---but then he's an eng mgt guy---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 18, 2012, 07:36:33 AM
Well we found out yesterday that our nose transplant operator was not quite on top of his game---he assummed that originally the holes in the sheetmetal would have been semetrical---well his ASSUME was wrong turns out the side seams were the defining markers---  we are off 3/8" the seam to seam  measurement to the ground is slightly off---they may not be exacty right but they are closer than my ASSUME was- Use the "Dodge" tape measure,  sparky. :roll:

WELDER is happy--Quote:  "Ohh, does that mean you are going to have to cut all these tacks loose?"  yeah---"Well while its off that means that you will clean and prep the weld area correctly this time RIGHT!!"   LOL  Marty I get it, I get it!  lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on July 18, 2012, 07:44:46 AM
Looking great Sparky! I can't wait to see it next month, and catch up with you again.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 19, 2012, 11:10:59 PM
been mooting around with the steering stuff:  Marty bout had a heart attack when I told him that I had ordered a steering wheel from a low rider online when I told him it was not chain he breathed a little easier---  this thing is ROUND Mr. Barrett you will be happy to know 8 3/4" in Diam. with foam grips. finally worked out the strg--swing up system today without the lift strut---will do it later---should be no issues.  primitive but virtually no slack in the strg. wheel rotational movement.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 21, 2012, 06:02:17 PM
Good day so far---lots of little things and a HUGE thing---we have a NEW lower and upper tail section picts to follow we will be busy---Marty came by and welded in the bung of the tanks we are down to two more fittings--- then the tanks can be installed we are getting close to installing the tank


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 21, 2012, 08:48:11 PM
 :-o  Whoooeee  WW got some new tail feathers to cover his bare butt---we will be sending him to the tailor to get them fitted to his bones :-P

This is going to be FUNNN we used a HF cheap A laser to shoot the side of the tank to see what the shape will be---we plan on transfering the parobola to the skin then cut it with a plasma cutter then weld in the flat inserts  should lend itself to intresting graphics and or paint!!

The Guys (Tom, Marty, and Chris),  at Atomic-SW Fabrication did an OUTSTANDING job breaking the top and bottom of the car---can't wait to get it attached


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 23, 2012, 10:39:28 PM
Well today was a day of making patches---Alum. hole patches---sorta like round-to-its--- but in alum  we are trying to get the body in shape to permanatley attach so that we can start putting other systems in!!  we cut a lot of doubler rounds to weld in to back up the filler patches  really it's like cutting paper dolls---just MUCh MUCH slower!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2012, 08:40:58 AM
when I do a fly by at Sky Harbor to drop Linda off---- I will then recon some specialty fastners -- at 2 suppliers that Marty told me about----for attaching alum panels for attacing inspecion and access panels


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on July 24, 2012, 11:11:43 AM
Sparky,
Did you check Aircraft Spruce? They are probably a one day ship to you. Maybe two. I am not qite sure what you are trying to do but when it comes to to fastening aluminum aircraft style panels, I'm betting they have what you need.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/NAS517.php

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/fast_anchor.html


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: maguromic on July 24, 2012, 12:15:17 PM
If the panels are going to come on and off I would use camlocks.  I get mine from Coast Fabrication and they have just about any grip length you would ever need.  Get there catalog, its free and is handy for all the measurements and diagrams in it. http://www.coastfab.com/hardware.html  Tony


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2012, 12:42:09 PM
Thanks guys  I will look into these today!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: robfrey on July 24, 2012, 01:35:08 PM
If the panels are going to come on and off I would use camlocks.  I get mine from Coast Fabrication and they have just about any grip length you would ever need.  Get there catalog, its free and is handy for all the measurements and diagrams in it. http://www.coastfab.com/hardware.html  Tony

These guys got the floating nutplates I've been looking for. Thanks Tony.
Spruce probably has them but I did not see them on their website.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 24, 2012, 10:08:07 PM
Tony---thanks for the great link---I called both places went with your guys---wonderful tech support and extremely helpfull---went with the 27?? series # 4s because I think they will work best for our application------only time will tell--- we found your guys slightly higher but we appreciate a helpfull attitude with my rookie status on using these things and went with them---thanks again-- :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: maguromic on July 24, 2012, 11:56:54 PM
They are great to work with and helped me many times over the years, plus they have done their share of LSR stuff.  Tony


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 25, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
Well we are off to the bracket and body fabricating wars!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 26, 2012, 09:03:02 AM
GEEZE it is easy to understand why there are so many unfinished bucket list cars--

-when you get down to the BRACKETT racing ---one spends long days in the shop and you end up putting more things on the list than you mark off!!  I cut the nose off have the car on the floor have a pretty good idea what the panel in frt of the axle will look like now---need to go get a grease pencil to mark the panels then---put new consumables in the plasma cutter hold my breath and ---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on July 26, 2012, 10:01:54 AM
Project equation: Time to complete first 98% = Time to complete last 2%!  :-o :cry:

Keep the hammer down Brackett man, you're closer than you think!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 26, 2012, 10:53:36 AM
LOL

Woody---Terry Mouer suggested:

end of build THRASH last 2 weeks

HELP Wanted!!!

Race car Fabricators!!

Willing to work for FOOD!!!  ie --lunch

1 beer at end of shift!!!  lol



Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Jon on July 26, 2012, 01:41:16 PM
I'm not a race car fabricator Sparky; I drink rum rather than beer but if you cover the commute I'll be there ;).

Any pics happening?

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 26, 2012, 11:20:14 PM
Jon, might be worth it then we could introduce you to TEQUILA  :cheers:

Had what seems like a strange day--parts arived by BROWN Santa---camlocks ---thanks Tony  bought a bunch of strange semingly non related parts---we have got to take on the CANOPY--- Marty and I went round-an-round he won--we will use a piano hinge anget after this one way or another-- the nose finally told me what it wants to see-- I THINK--- Marty brought by the side panels---the found a soft ware site that let them define the shape of the "SWOOSH" that will be inserted into the cyl. shape of the body---

Francis fro Oro Vally is bringing up the intake scoop for fitting---can't wait to see his effforts---

Marty told me I better get going with the camera---as the build was becoming BOOOOOORIINNNNGGGGG


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 27, 2012, 04:02:16 AM
Hang a flag & flashing lights on Terry's suggestion Sparky. I'd be a candidate if I wasn't already 24/7-ing my own life. Hear I am heading to bed at 3am.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 27, 2012, 07:51:28 AM
Ahhh the generosity of guys from down under---thanks mates :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Marty welded in some of the patches I made the other day

Next project welding the sections we made by slicing the left over hoop we cut off the tank--together to form the eng bay top and we have one for the bottom to be done


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 27, 2012, 07:56:53 AM
in progerss


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 27, 2012, 08:04:50 AM
next project the dreaded canopy---  Andy gave me grief over the 2x4 and Marty went palistic---that is a pal who goes ballistic on his buddy giving him BIG # 2 over something

---he didn't like me using emt even for concept visiualition---it will be done in alum.  Well everyones mind works differently and mine needs help

Some SR citizen chick one of my wifes friends--called me a 70 year old juvenile the other day--now I KNOW that was ment as a compliment

Andy and I stuck the eng in getting ready for Francis and his contribution to the Wild Weasel---the air intake scoop


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 27, 2012, 11:17:30 PM
Marty talked me into just buying another rolled hoop rather than welding up the old parts----

Francis brought up the scoop---he did a fine job with the fiberglass fabrication  he took the carb and the plate back to finish it--sorry guys I did not run and grab the camera.  Marty and Tom brought over the " Baloney slices" and we spent a lot of time noodling out the best way to mount the things---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: 38flattie on July 28, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Sparky, either I missed something, or I just don't know-what do you mean by " Baloney slices" ?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2012, 02:50:46 PM
inserted into cyl. in front of the rear axel!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2012, 08:32:26 PM
Tom and Marty---- the guys that made the slices work


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2012, 08:36:13 PM
Cut Outs and the almost finished product


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2012, 10:22:06 PM
Today is one of those days---you dream, you plan, you draw, you read, you study---then you start to build,  you build and build,  you work, you buy parts, you are frustated,, then you have a day like today---when you are over whelmed by what you are looking at---"the thing"  starts to come together---as much as you THINK you have a mental image  then the metal start to take final shape and form--- this thing is just blowing me away  ---it sorta looks like I thouht it would,  but it is Different somehow---it is going to be RAW, it is going to be UNFINISHED,  but we still hope to be runable at speed week---

 REMEMBER---fabricators and racers willing to  work for food and beer are still at the top of the wish list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 29, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Andy and I put in a long day today---nooo we didn't bracket race we rachett strap raced--- which also includes making brackets  I had forgotten how UNfun sheetmetal is :-(  but it is a big part of Special Construction  it was late in the day before WW spoke to us about 2 things ---the under axle fairing and maybe about the canopy--- we were forced to make some lesser choices in keeping with wanting to run this year instead of trying to be the best that one might be able to come up with!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: bvillercr on July 29, 2012, 10:51:22 PM
Sparky, your doing great!!  Keep up the hard work and remember it's called speed week, you don't have to be there on Saturday.  You can do it!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Stainless1 on July 29, 2012, 11:06:28 PM
Sparky, this one has to be prettier than the last one...  :roll:  :-D
Looking forward to seeing it at Speedweek.  I'd come help if either of mine were ready to race...
BTW I have a new wrench you are welcome to come to Kansas and use if you can keep that motor under 1000 HP.... You and your bride could visit the LSR* Bed and Breakfast... after race season  :-D

*Linda & Stainless Ranch


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 29, 2012, 11:48:09 PM
Thanks for the kind words guys---

1 rachet racing
2 rear showing with pilot tubes  and main chute tubes
3  one of the slice removals just found a better use than the scrap pile----takes care of the botton transisition--one of the messages from WW today!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on July 30, 2012, 11:45:53 PM
Andy and I had a good session designed two "brackets
Marty dropped by on his bike being towed by Zeus---the wonder dog---he tacked up the canopy frame that I designed and cut out today!!!
Terry Mouer called and said he and his grandson Grant will be out for Speedweek--Really lookforward to seeing  them, especially meeting Grant whom we have so much about!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on August 01, 2012, 12:09:54 AM
John got the chute release cables installed in the rear---I worked on the combo--made a parts run---
Andy got home early and we worked out the rear panel attachment and installed the under body fairing behind the rear axle and later Marty came by and weled up the canopy frame--

Francis called and is working on the hood scoop---on the parts run dropped by Cholla cabinets and said hello to AL E and his roadster---he told me to get lost and get back home and get to work if I was going to SW

Mark from Scottsdale dropped by to look at my tubing bender  he is working on a B eng Mod Sport Triumph and is thinking of



# 1   The combo bracket- battery hold down, cooling water hold down, rear body panel holder.

# 2    Marty came by and weled up the canopy frame


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on August 01, 2012, 08:36:59 AM
If all goes well Sumner and Ruth are suppose to be by later this afternoon---maybe I can con him into helping for a day or two!!  My bride get back in town after visiting her sisters for 8 days---I bet I eat better than I have for the last week!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Elmo Rodge on August 01, 2012, 08:49:58 AM
Sparky, please say HI to Sum and Ruth and drag them along to Bonneville.  :-D Wayno


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2012, 11:59:04 AM
Wayne-O  I passed on your wish to Sum---Great news he has agreed to work for food for a few days---weill be a most welcome addition!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2012, 11:08:05 PM
Sum has thrashed on the body for the last day and a half---the nose is hard on and aligned properly---Thanks Sum for a great effort!!

I am getting very close to being done behind the rear axle the chute attachments to Way longer than I though---then it seems like more and more things do!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on August 05, 2012, 12:46:49 AM
REALITY check---boy o boy is there a huge difference between rebuilding an existing car  and finishing a new car  the Wild Weasel will not be seeing Salt in August! :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  want to bees-- have no buisness becoming got tos--  that leads to accident chains---- this car  will be capable of running too fast to risk having a car in which one didn't address potential problems and finish EVERYTHING that could possibiliy help in unforseen misshaps  we need to slow down and put the weight and tailfeaters the push button primary chute release-ect ect

Therefore we have a preentry for sale---- we are planning on being on the salt Sat. AM for a few days  we are pumped-- but have decided to be methodical in our finishing the car---Sum will be back  Tues and we plan on working on the body attachment.  I had made a mistake in the way I was using the body---Sum convinced me I needed to make the tank bay freestanding!!!!  Yesteday  I made brackets and whacked it into--- Sum Promised to help me but it back together!! We also need to attach the cam locks in a couple of panels!!

PRE-ENRTY FOR SALE  Sparky 602-762-2211


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: jl222 on August 05, 2012, 01:19:24 AM
  Sparky...you can't say you didnt give it your best effort. But ''as we know on the 222 Camaro, fabrication always takes longer than planned.  We spent all day yesderday on front headlight covers, couldn't believe it took so long. Then we spotted rust on top of valve :-o

Your right on pushing it to fast.

          JL222


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: kiwi belly tank on August 05, 2012, 07:07:59 AM
Hey Hero,
  I know theres been a lot of people checking on your progress Sparky & we were all rooting for you. You gave it your best Mate & we are impressed with how much your old arse got done.  :-o
Snuggle up to the wife for a couple of days then go to the salt & have fun.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Peter Jack on August 05, 2012, 07:48:04 AM
Good move Sparky.

It will get done and be a much better car for the extra time you spend on it. The detail stuff always takes way longer than you'd think and is where the niggling problems arise. Doing things with the thought that you can redo them at a later time is not the type of quality control you want to use on a project with the capabilities that this one has.

Relax, enjoy a few days of SW and go back to work refreshed and inspired!!!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Say Hi to Sum. We're still looking forward to seeing his lakester.  :-D :-D :-D


Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on August 05, 2012, 08:16:38 AM
Sparky, discretion IS the better part of valor! We want to see a Wild Weasel not a wounded one!  :cheers:
And there will still be excess beer that needs to be disposed of!   :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: SPARKY on August 05, 2012, 09:38:52 AM
Woody  The nose config. is going to have an AWSOME look  especially after we build the nose-axle fairings -- caint wait to get nose art on this thing-- the rear under body fairings are going to be better than I expected that parabolic side cut out--is traisition fairing nicely behind the rear axle---do not know what the air will think but "looks good"


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud
Post by: Tman on August 05, 2012, 09:39:26 AM
Smart move.Now you have 370 days to do it right and finish it off!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stan Back on August 05, 2012, 12:53:05 PM
Thanx.  I was starting to worry.  And the air gets better later in the year.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on August 05, 2012, 02:21:51 PM
IMHO a good choice Sparky.

Like you said it's going to run too fast to be running unfinished.

Look forward to watching your build continue.


Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 05, 2012, 02:54:25 PM
Summner called and he will be bakc Mon night late will be available for a few days---time will tell---our plan is to concentrate on finishing the body---

Thanks for the words of encourgement guys we still our planing to run this year if  all works out


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Podunk on August 05, 2012, 07:11:43 PM
Sparkie,
Is it CRS or to much liquid induced engineering but Grant was the tall thin kid in our room last year.

                                               Terry MouRer


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on August 05, 2012, 07:56:47 PM
Sparky,
I know that this is a pretty selfish idea, as I would love to see your car in person, but do a "Marlo" put it on the trailer and drag  it to the salt for all of us to see. We have never meet but hope to see you at the salt, I will be with Steve Nelson and his no. 221 V4/FL lakester, stop by.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 06, 2012, 08:24:27 AM
Rex,  It just will not be ready---Sum and I are going to try to nail down the body while he is here---then we need to paint the frame and lots of metal parts before we start to put it together---we are at the point of where there are a lot of chicken or egg debates going on in my mind!

Besides I have no illusions of comparing my "sick addition" to Marlo's and Humes  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers: "Magnificent Obsession"


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on August 06, 2012, 09:53:01 AM
Sparky, Rex was reading my mind - do a Marlo - we'd love to see it! Even without the nose art!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 09, 2012, 12:51:00 AM
Getting ready for the caonpy


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 09, 2012, 12:52:43 AM
Sumners handi work


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on August 09, 2012, 12:30:05 PM
Well you lost me with that one Sparky & possibly a few others too I'd say. Looks like you had a spare wing tip? :? :?
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 09, 2012, 04:13:40 PM
naw  its a rat rod air cleaner---keeps the bugs rite outa ur teeth  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on August 09, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
Good one mate! :cheers:
I won't say anything, I know it's really a secret weapon like the Ozzy winged keel. :roll:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Crosley on August 09, 2012, 10:21:39 PM
I'm just eggcited to read that Sum is working on a car.  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 10, 2012, 01:46:22 AM
Tony,  he seemed to be having fun!!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 10, 2012, 05:00:50 AM
good on ya trooper,lookin forward to seein ya all the same,champion effort to see you get this far so fast,is Sailor Sum comin?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 19, 2012, 10:37:10 AM
Well SpeedWeek sabitical is over  got back in the shop yesterday afternoon--worked on something simple---the push bar roller wheel---finally found what what I think will work---a caster wheel that has a 5/8" bolt for and axle and it has a coverd steel wheel  if we mash the "tire" off we still have the flat wheel will weld it today  I am going to try to finish the car(bracketts & frame from the bulk head back that we can roll it out side and paint the frame with our Rustolem spray paint that grinds off easy and touches up easy yesterday I also "noodled out" installing the weight bars I got from Saltiene Jim's YOW by the end of the day. That will make a total 400# mounted low in the bottowm of the car just in frt of the rear axel.

jeeze  I could not even add 140 + 160==300 not 400


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Podunk on August 21, 2012, 08:12:24 PM
Sparkeee,
Grant wanted to know who the old guy on the far right of our room was.

                     Terry MouReR


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on August 21, 2012, 11:34:57 PM
Message for Sum...................I'm so glad you escaped the water.

Welcome back.

Ruth.....make him answer his e-mail. It may take a week but he has been missed.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 22, 2012, 12:21:21 AM
Dave and John come over today  we have the Heavy metal tacked in and and started on the fuel hatch


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 25, 2012, 09:49:44 AM
jeezee  no wonder I sold trucks instead of body working on them---I   :? :-o at it  slowly making progress--- will be in the shop most of today  this body stuff has to get nailed down so that I can Rustolem Primer the frame  I have played with the cam locks enough to think I can do a passable job on attaching body panels---I I do not have the dicipline to take the time to do this fairly right  it will be all for nought..

SW verified something that PP told me a long time ago one night at the KOA.

Sparky,  You can spend Millions on research, design, & construction, to get the best possible shape; millions in the wind tunnel tweaking the shape, and it can be undone by 15 minutes sitting in the sun on the race course.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 25, 2012, 12:31:02 PM
I think I am learning the hard way :oops:  why "tanks" are split in half lengthwise and mounted that way---One has to "deal" with it in ONLY two dimensions.  I didnt understand that when I started---the lesson is being reavealed  :-o  to me now as I try to mount and seal it.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 30, 2012, 09:21:36 AM
John and I had a good day in the shop we cut some strips to help force the alingment into place ans one will do double duty.  It will be the lip the fuel acces door seals against.  John remembered that he had seen a HF planishing hammer some where---well  got it down put it together and tried it out--- we have lots to learn but it did smooth out what we had done with at body hammer over a piec of 3/8" arc


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 01, 2012, 11:59:41 PM
Well  I spent the about 8 hrs between yesterday and today, doing what Marty could have done in 45 minutes. doing about 12 roset welds and welding in the strips that John and I made tues.  This is the first time I tried TIG doing this alum stuff.  I got a little better as I went along but they are horrible---they are on the inside and I am sure Marty will make me autograph this so no one will think that He or Joey did it.  lol

I will try the body alignment tomorrow.  I think it will be tight I just hope it aligns!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 02, 2012, 11:06:39 AM
Well,  I jsut spent the last two hours p-u-l-l-i-n-g the frt skin over the drivers area----YEAH---it is difficult to pull on---but it self aligns and looks like it will have virtually no GAPS-- one of my lousy welds popped while I was pulling it on with two ratchet straps.

This post s seems so trivial but the way the body jumped around once I cut it when Summner was here.  I have been very concerned that it might not align back up. No one else was around for me to celebrate with----so you guys are the victims!!!

Now I should be able to take the frame back out side and prime this thing then install the fuel bay skin PERMATELY and start final assemby and make this building a car LOOK like it.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on September 02, 2012, 02:17:37 PM
Thanks for the chat yesterday!

Post pics, post pics! We need to see this! :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 06, 2012, 03:29:26 PM
Likewise Buddy---

Doug Came over Tues. and he will runn the formula on the "Starship bridge" wind screeen and Francis brought the air intake by and we tried the fit an saw that it was what we are looking for he took it back to finish it up.  We hope to start priming it this weekend.  Al E. and Denton came by this morning for a vist and to check on progress.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 08, 2012, 09:09:10 PM
brackets, brackets,  :-( body, body-- :-(--I am wanting to get to priming the frame and starting  AND get to final assemble SOMETHING


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on September 08, 2012, 09:19:30 PM
Final assembly is like a fine ale. Well worth the wait! :cheers:

You figure out the chute lanyard yet?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 09, 2012, 06:45:53 AM
TMAN   I  have built  "noodle" Bell cranks to try push or pull --- I am THINKING I am going to have the primary be a rod that pushes but the seconday is on the side I get out on so for clearance reasons I may pull---once I make a final decison I will try to do something that looks nicer.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on September 09, 2012, 10:06:52 AM
I am just thinking a rod will be the smoothest way in mine. Slide rod forward if the air fails.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 10, 2012, 12:33:58 AM
Might just have to swing by this week on my day off and take a look at this bad boy in person


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 10, 2012, 08:31:06 AM
come on, come on---but only time and a few passes will tell if it is going to be bad


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 13, 2012, 04:58:15 PM
Sparky, was good to meet you today and get to see my first LSR car up close. Not sure what I can help with but if you need a hand with something or when the time comes need a hand at El Mirage or Bonneville, Id love to help out.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 14, 2012, 10:53:06 AM
Likewise Frankie

Well I was going to order my transition 45 deg  but they have stoped making them  they are NO longer in the exhasut business so I resorted to ordering some 7 deg. cones  from Cone engineering and some 45 deg 2.25 45 deg bends from Hooker they are on back order but they are 16 guage.  Thanks to Contrivance Eng. and my crusing the internet for WWII fighter inspriations the P-40s and Supermarine Spitfires for my exhaust noodle prompts.  Dr GAS used to offer 2.25" tubing to 1 5/8" x 3.5" 45 deg. transitions---no more.  Plan is to cut and modify the & deg 2" to 4"  cones to look similiar to those.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: fredvance on September 14, 2012, 11:12:50 AM
Bill, Burns stainless has a ton of exhaust stuff, both stainless and regular steel. You might look at what they have, if you already haven't.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on September 14, 2012, 11:23:30 AM
I have bought a lot of exhaust parts from these guys.

http://heartthrobexhaust.com/


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on September 15, 2012, 06:12:38 AM
stainless works is in Chagrin falls, Ohio.
they have a lot of parts and tech articles in their hard copy catalog.
I have never looked them up online.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 28, 2012, 06:55:27 PM
Joey is back in town from his Alaska fishing adventure.

I was able to help a guy get his twin turbo blow through set up  ironed out---he had built the HAT with an inlet on either side of a circle and it didnt blow straight at each other---they we causing a very active tornado inside the hat--- a baffle on each side  at 90 deg to air flow stopped the vortex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 08, 2012, 11:02:36 AM
Any progress over there in NE Phoenix or are you too tied up with the elcetion stuff? Hope all is well with ya Sparky


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 08, 2012, 03:21:20 PM
I am in the middle of a compulsory kitchen remodel  not much on the car Maybe Thursday


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on October 08, 2012, 08:13:05 PM
I am in the middle of a compulsory kitchen remodel  not much on the car Maybe Thursday

Know the feeling, finishing a bath remod me self. :?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 09, 2012, 09:07:47 AM
Gotta love those Honey-do's! :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 09, 2012, 10:46:36 AM
Buddy---More than once I have paid the price for not "LOVING" them!!  loving


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 10, 2012, 10:18:50 AM
Buddy---More than once I have paid the price for not "LOVING" them!!  loving

Haha! Been there, done that-will probably have to do it again! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 18, 2012, 06:05:44 PM
Crissa and I worked on the fuel door panel  we are getting it figured out countersinking the fasteners and such  tedious but we will soon get the hang of it---I HOPE!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 21, 2012, 11:26:59 AM
Well  I do no at have the complete hang of it but I am making progress---until ---I was implored to DIVERT---to installing a rear axle on a "DRIFT TRIKE"  seems like the "LONG BOARD" crowd has a new thing

Strip down a bike frame, get you some HF inflatable dolly wheels and an axle about 30-36" wide weld on the back of the bike frame  get some 4-5" sections of PVC schedule 40 that will fit over the deflated tires--  air them up inside the sections of PVC  weld a seat on the axle---WALLA  one has a drift trike---much like a big wheel

Go find a steep hill with curves and you have the makings of an adrenilin induced head trama--if you drift into the front bumper of an oncoming car or go over the side of the mountain at 45-60 MPH


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on October 21, 2012, 11:41:11 AM
Well  I do no at have the complete hang of it but I am making progress---until ---I was implored to DIVERT---to installing a rear axle on a "DRIFT TRIKE"  seems like the "LONG BOARD" crowd has a new thing

Strip down a bike frame, get you some HF inflatable dolly wheels and an axle about 30-36" wide weld on the back of the bike frame  get some 4-5" sections of PVC schedule 40 that will fit over the deflated tires--  air them up inside the sections of PVC  weld a seat on the axle---WALLA  one has a drift trike---much like a big wheel

Go find a steep hill with curves and you have the makings of an adrenilin induced head trama--if you drift into the front bumper of an oncoming car or go over the side of the mountain at 45-60 MPH

Lots of Youtube action about those things.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 23, 2012, 02:37:41 PM
CAM-LOCKS---while not being a cam-lock pro ---we have now done our first dozen  I am sure we used way to many but I bet the fuel door doesn't  as Bo Diddley said  "Blow in the Street" picts to follow.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 15, 2012, 09:46:35 AM
Well, well, well---reality set in---we will not race if we don't work on the car---Marty came by, Joey is catching up, Good Guys is this weekend, Dave and John were over Tues and Wed. for several hours---my brain is getting back in the game---John and I spent some time yesterday on instrument cluster and chute release.  Last night I spent some time online studying water heaters  better know as intercoolers.  I sure like Rob's 2 pass thinking where will I find all the ROOM---his packaging is going to be outstanding!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on November 15, 2012, 01:24:44 PM
Good to see you back in the shop. Let some of the the frustrations of the past election fuel the passion to get that bad boy finished. Im covering the office near your place next week. If your gonna be around maybe ill stop by at lunch


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on November 15, 2012, 05:00:06 PM
What size batteries does your camera take Sparky, I'll send some over if you can't get them Stateside.

Getting some Wild Weasel Withdrawals happening here.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 15, 2012, 11:47:42 PM
Jon,  spent the last two sessions really just getting the car to the surface of my pea brain---

Joey and I should start on building and mounting the inst panel. Placing the gauges so that they are easy to scan and don't require much focal length change in ones instrument scan!! 

We have intentionally not used a full canopy trying to address a glare problem on can have at B'ville.  At El M If you run early the sun can be in ones face.

Picts will follow when we have something to show!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 16, 2012, 03:01:45 PM
Well the best laid plans of mice and men, fell by the way side. 

Insanity rules----Dug out the old fab jig I made 7 years ago have picts---just for you Jon!!! :-D 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on November 16, 2012, 03:12:18 PM
I have those same technical jigs! (blocks and steel). I understand getting stalled out, happens to all of us at some time. I am stalled out on diagonals while working on other aspects.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on November 16, 2012, 03:36:11 PM
Thanks Sparky

Are they Detroit turbos?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on November 16, 2012, 07:01:33 PM
It's looking good!

Am I mistaken, or did you not tell me you had decided against those Detroit turbos? PM me your mailing address, and I'll get this other turbo to you ASAP.

This one should be fun to watch on the salt! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 16, 2012, 07:39:07 PM
Jon,  The one on the left is from a big HP 60 series Detroit --the one on the right is one of a pair that I have that is a little larger that the Detroit.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel<Thud Spud> a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 18, 2012, 09:13:48 AM
Well,  I have spent a lot of time online--researching water to air intercoolers  I am going to have to have something very similar to Robs but the inlets and outlets for air and water will be different due to space requirements and I will be trying to do more with my water.  I do not have nearly as much water capacity as Rob built in his liner.  Smart on him-- dumb on me!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 21, 2012, 09:59:01 PM
Well we ordered a bunch of stuff for the turbos exhaust fabrication Tues.  Today I got the sad news that these turbos I have are not suitable for LSR  Instead of the BIG DD 60 turbos I have the S 400 350 HP stationary eng version---great if you want a 700 hp + or - street eng
But all is not lost-- the big single Garrett I have is good enough for the shake down blow through 468 & 496 I have most of the parts for---this will get me started then when we find if this thing will go straight---we can then MAYBE we can spend the big bucks for the KILLER turbo and put it on my good eng and shoot for the BIG marbles!!!! :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 22, 2012, 09:55:45 AM
A note to builders from Joe Timney  aka Delaware Chassis Works  v Sparky from years ago:  :-o    a lesson I cant seem to learn or remember at the right time.   :-o

" I build a car to where I could fire it with tack welds---then and only then will I final weld it."

 :cry:  He knows that things change between start and finish and tacks are easier to cut out. :cry:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on November 22, 2012, 03:26:29 PM
Don't weld until you know.
Where's the fun in that??

Was the Detroit Turbo not going to give you the boost you want without too much heat Sparky or just too small?

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 22, 2012, 10:09:52 PM
Spot on Jon it is too small and it will generate WAY to much heat to get the hp that I want this time.

I has as best as i can eye ball a 66 wheel on the turbine side and a 72 on the compressor

The Big boy is off a  big Waukeshaw stationary eng --it has a 115 turbine and a 90 on the compressor-- the AR is 1.00 on the turbine and .81 compressor.  nothing fancy 15 year old tech.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 24, 2012, 10:10:57 PM
caught some intercoolers on sale for 120.  I am going to try making 1 out of two --- it will be 24 inches long 13" wide--I am going to put 2 cores inline with a 2 pass of cooling water.  My issues may be my only having 22 gallons of  cooling tank---We may be looking to other sources of COOL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on December 14, 2012, 02:13:24 AM
Sparky,
Are you making any progress lately?
Btw, our inter cooler is not double pass. It has two cores and each are fed by a separate pump. Key to any icewater intercooler success is to exchange the water rapidly.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JustaRacer on December 14, 2012, 08:38:48 AM
Well we ordered a bunch of stuff for the turbos exhaust fabrication Tues.  Today I got the sad news that these turbos I have are not suitable for LSR  Instead of the BIG DD 60 turbos I have the S 400 350 HP stationary eng version---great if you want a 700 hp + or - street eng
But all is not lost-- the big single Garrett I have is good enough for the shake down blow through 468 & 496 I have most of the parts for---this will get me started then when we find if this thing will go straight---we can then MAYBE we can spend the big bucks for the KILLER turbo and put it on my good eng and shoot for the BIG marbles!!!! :roll:


Probably not useful for what you're doing, but some minor experience info:

Borg Warner S400's come in many flavors and are a favorite of sled pullers.  Easy to customize, lots of parts, cheap.  These are where I started at.

Not sure of the math, but here's what a S475 is:

Cheap drop in replacement for a Garrett GT4202 (102mm compressor exducer, 75mm inducer).  Map and interface dimensions almost identical.  Has MWE groove, but is not gated.  Must run external gate for gas apps.  I don't run wastegates.

With 403ci at 4000 rpm, it makes 50 PSIG boost on a diesel.  

IIRC, I tested the S480 also (80mm inducer), but for the life of me I can't remember the results.  Then Garrett sponsored me, and I stopped using BW's.  The Garrett equiv made 798rwhp at 4800rpm uncorrected through an Allison trans, or about 1100HP at the crank SAE, at 58 psig.  It wasn't at full output though.

I think I have both 475 and 480 sitting collecting dust.

I'm running various Garretts from 4202 to 5533?

Note:  Even running 1800F EGT's and overspeeding (way off the top of the map), I've yet to injure either big BW or Garretts unless I barked them hard and repeatedly.





Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 14, 2012, 08:49:59 AM
Thanks for the info. & offer---- please send me a  PM with your phone number I would like to get more info on applications and your "shelf" items--   our applications would be 500 and 600 CU IN and around 7000 rpm---cant imagine much over 30 psi on a BBC---  we plan on starting in the 12-20 psi range

I am such a turbo rookie I still have to look up all the model and part # to have any idea what I am trying to compare..  I will be busy later today---thanks for being part of my continuing (adult?? ) education!!  lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JustaRacer on December 14, 2012, 09:31:57 AM
Note:  There are a lot of guys on this site who know a lot more about turbocharging than I do.  Hopefully some will add some input.



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: redhotracing on December 14, 2012, 10:32:36 AM
We're running a Bullseye(modded BW)
S488 on a 370" motor, made 865hp on
12psi. A/R's available from .7 to 1.32...

Like Rob said, great parts availability,
Good price point as well. I believe ours
is rated to 1400hp, retails at $1300


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JustaRacer on December 14, 2012, 07:32:28 PM
I'll give this a shot.

On Borg Warners - S4xx is the frame size.  The xx is the inducer diameter of the compressor wheel.  You can measure this on an assembled charger.  Example:  S480 has a 80mm inducer dia.

On Garretts - GT4zxx is sort of the frame size, there are exceptions.  z is the subclass of the frame.  xx is the last two digits of the exducer size (can't be measured on assy charger).  Example GT4202 has a 102mm exducer dia on the compressor.

I think the pics are from a GT4718 compressor:



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JustaRacer on December 14, 2012, 07:33:36 PM
Nope.  This software is "vintage". :evil:



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 14, 2012, 08:13:04 PM
Rob, we are making some progress  Marty has the coolers and is in the process of putting them in line so the air will go through the 2 cores  we will then decide on the water passage we will be using 2 pumps also  ---I hope to make some progress on the log manifolds this weekend.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on December 14, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
For the money, the best turbo that I have found are the holset HT3b and the Holset HT60.
The exhaust sides are the same. The HT60 have an island cfm of about 850. The HT3bs are about 780 cfm.
Both of these turbos are extremely robust and have a .50 shaft diameter.
These turbo spin the opposite direction than the Garrett's and BW which will make them more work to convert once you want to spend more money on Garrett GT47xx or whatever.
You can usually find these turbos for under $300 a piece used. These are very good quality turbos. I understand that Cummins contributed a lot of money for R and D for these units.
Try to find units with 23cm turbine housing.
Remember, inducer size is not the only number you should care about. The inducer size is a better measurement when comparing turbos within a family of turbos of the same manufacturer.
500ci is pretty much the limit for these Holsets but they can support 1800 hp (ht3b) and 2000 hp (HT60) in twin form.
I have had a lot of issues putting Garrett  GT4708s on my liner. Knowing what I know now, I would of just used my HT3bs off of Vinny.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on December 14, 2012, 10:13:34 PM
You can buy rebuild kits for the Holsets for about $45 from Michigan Turbo.
As long as the wheels have not made contact with the housings. Oh yeah, You will most likely find them with divided housings.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 15, 2012, 11:42:51 PM
Marty,  brought the intercoolers over with 2 of the end tanks cut off and tacked together we will be working on the packaging it looks like we will have to build the exhaust first so that we can get the turbo nailed down then figureto follow out the water plumbing the mounts and then the air plumbing!  picts to follow..  We will most likely plan on running alky at first untill we learn just how good the intercooler works. 

picts tommorrow


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 18, 2012, 12:31:58 AM
Scored an early 1150 Dominator off Craigslist  it one of the good ones with the raised lips..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: racergeo on December 18, 2012, 01:06:25 AM
   Sparky, are you going to send this off to make it a blow thru carb? If so to whom? How many$. thanks . Your faithful follower, George


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 18, 2012, 10:57:48 AM
George,  No we are using this for mock up and to run the eng NA to shake down---we are starting with my original 509 stuff--Stock Brodix 2x heads with stud girdles on a Chevy Bow Tie block. This should be good for where we are trying to go this year--That eng will probabaly do 780-800 and we would like to be around 1400-1500 if possible that is about all I think my PG/GV set up can handle

If this All works out eventually I want to make this into a 498  by destroking a 4" crank or going to a 427 3.76 crank creating a 488??

 C&S so far has my attention with the 4500 series

We have a lot to do and LOTS of conflicts to make it happen---Paying for the kitchen redo and finishing a car..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on December 19, 2012, 12:18:40 AM
Dominator blow throughs work pretty good.
The Mustang that I'm racing (Tim Rodeheaver) on the left is a blow thru Dom with no intercooler.
About 500 ci bbf 15lbs of boost. Ht3b turbos. Run 8.50s . Can run faster but he is afraid of breaking the stock block.

http://youtu.be/wtsqrPdfh4w

Because the fueling happens upstream with a carb, I think that helps to cool the charge.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on December 19, 2012, 04:55:57 AM
   Sparky, are you going to send this off to make it a blow thru carb? If so to whom? How many$. thanks . Your faithful follower, George

Holy carp, where have you been?

I've missed you giving me , ya know, a talking to..... :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 21, 2012, 10:41:36 AM
Two intresting tidbits of info:

1.  Extremvelocity's carb hat will point straight back or forward when you use their dual float bowls
2.  Gordon would like to see at least 15" of straight tubing between the intercooler and the hat for the air to have a chance to "settle down"  I have heard that about 1' before turbo exhasust inlets is desireable.

I have speent several hours in the shop the last 2 days waiting for the the intercooler to tell me how it wants to be plumbed.

True confession time:  hoarding pays off  :-o , yesterday when Dave and I were playing with all this stuff in and around the back of the car the little thought clawed it way to the surface of my grey matter;

 "did't you have about a 4' piece of thick wall 5" irrigation pipe you moved out there from Dallas 9 years ago?"  20 minutes later I found it stashed on top of something--- it will be perfect,, will have to cut some thin pieces off to make me some dognuts on the end to keep the silicone connectors on.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on December 21, 2012, 10:52:08 AM
Tell me about the fun of saving stuff, Sparky.  Once in a while I come up with the need for something out of the ordinary, or a tool that I got but haven't ever used.  Then - the occasion to use that arises!  Yee-hah, I've got the right stuff.  I usually finish the job and scurry into the house to tell Nancy that "I finally got to use that left-handed thermothrackle that I wanted back in '98!" :cheers: :-D :roll:

Merry Christmas to you and Linda


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 21, 2012, 07:00:01 PM
SSS  in the frozen north it appears that what may be DealThinger  down south is a THERMOfrackle--lol

Merry Crhistmas to you two and your extended downlines---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 23, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
I spent several hours in the shop yesterday----pondering--pondering---pondering---sooner or later I am just going to have to jump up grap the saws all----but wait----I need to have this new cross member,  diagional, ect ect---to try to keep this thing from moving to much----

Robs more turbo experience is showing why he put his in front---I wanted to have mine at the rear close to the axle---but that means that my intercooler is going to be above  the exhast pipes geting to it.

The thing that is bothering me is the angles---It looks like that the exhaust in and the air out are going to have a 45 deg bend---I havent figured out a way to get the intake into a Hi press zone and the exhaust out of the body without turing the axis of the turbo about 45 deg to the center line of the car---I know I know---picts


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 23, 2012, 11:14:56 AM
Turbo angles---these are the two that I wish I could change---

but like so many things in LSR  they are compromise.  I think that what I am compromising is turbulence and dist.
 I am less concerned about the intercooler because there will be a open plenum between the two that will give the pressure diffrences an opportunity to adjust again. 

Again I welcome all thoughts because a Mike says with out DATA it just another opinion---there will be data---just as soon as we can get a data logging team member---the Dominator guy may be a candidate!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 23, 2012, 11:17:55 AM
These picts show a little about what I have to do---WHACK--- the diag. have to be modified to allow me to move the IC up and back---that will faciliate mounting and the transition angles--- the end tanks will be cut off by Marty and we will but a 3.5 on the inlet and a 5" on the outlet.

Water---we are going to use the existing plumbing routing to start with---data log the outlet water and air temps.  We have a 2 stage intercooler that we are going tfeed ice water into 2&4 and take water out of 1 & 3  hopefully this will cool progressively  the final cool will be air to air as ther should be 18" and the carb hat exposed to the slip stream.  Our hope for is ambient temp to the eng.

As you can see I am going to be busy retubing the top of the hoop and the upper "backbone" tube, just behind the eng.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on December 23, 2012, 02:38:51 PM
How does it look if you put the turbo on a 45 degrees slope as well as across the car Sparky?I know it's not "right", looks pretty tight in there.

I'm guessing turbo up close to the motor  isn't an option?

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 24, 2012, 01:35:18 PM
Whacked---finally cut 2 out fitted one will get them hard tacked before I cut any thing else out.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 25, 2012, 08:26:36 AM
I recieved BRN yesterday and was reading about the White's trials and tribulation as they sorted out the liners drivetrain---noticed that Rick made refrence to problems with the plaentary trans---thought of the boys from Texas---"I need to call Bernie and tell him what the Whites did to solve the problem."  Got busy had a family diner to go to---got back---get me a wine---phone rings---its Bernie.

We get to talking---he regales me with "Tales of Inspection and Certification"--only to be saved by "The Mayor" who stRODE up on his trusty two feet---"What the wELL is going on here"

---Bernie had me in stitches---nearly rolling on the floor.

My Wifes phone rang---she came out and said----"That was Santa, he wanted to know if you two guys couldn't hold it down a bit,  he was off course, lost and behind schedule because Rudolph could not hear him over us!!!"  ---there in lies an example of her twisted humor---is there in doubt why I lover her so!!

Merry Christmas to all! Lets remember the reason for "THE SEASON"  have a great holiday---WE will, we are going up to spend New Years Eve with Sum and Ruth.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 27, 2012, 05:51:06 PM
Its done I made a committment to Gordon at Extreme Velocity for a C&S 1000 Dominator Blow through and one of his carb hats.  He and C&S thought that the 1000 would have more flexibility and would be good for the turbo I have now.


What a heck of a nice guy---he answered all of my dumb questions!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on December 27, 2012, 05:56:27 PM
Late Christmas present to yourself? :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on December 27, 2012, 11:14:52 PM
SPARK...........Please tell Sum and Ruth HELLO for me.

THEY are special..

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 28, 2012, 12:14:09 AM
We called today---they are both under the weather with some kind of BUG  we are postponing the trip


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on December 28, 2012, 02:07:26 AM
Yep... :-( jeanne just had that.

It's called the "FLEW", because all the xmas plans flew right out the window.

Hope all have easy recovery.

JimL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 28, 2012, 08:36:00 AM
This turbo stuff is such a subjective subject---It is so hard to get compressor maps of the older turbos.  On top of everything else---we have such a different application than most:

Here is what I have learned---  no think,  I have learned so far:

 UTV 9406 701100-50?? this is apparently the "frame" that "THUMPER" Turbos are made on,
  I have a UTV 9406-91 that has a number  701100-5001 tag on it.
 I have found refrence to,  -101 and -106  I suspect there is a -96 out there also, there may be others, these were used on big diesel engs lots of them stationalry.

One "tweaks and tunes" these things by changing the turbine housing to determine where and how the power comes in.  The compressor or cold side determines how much air it can move.

It takes a lot of phone calls to find some one who can help you where you may not even recognize you need help before the call.  There are lots of guys that can help "SOME"---nobody can afford the time to take you from ground zero---read and study Garrett's stuff before you start.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 28, 2012, 04:13:19 PM
Levi told me about a great turbo "Work Sheet" at squirrlepf.com  :-o   Look under Tools


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on December 28, 2012, 05:08:47 PM
This link works --> http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/ (http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/)   8-)

Pretty cool!

Mike


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on December 29, 2012, 12:14:41 AM
For the money, the best turbo that I have found are the holset HT3b and the Holset HT60.
The exhaust sides are the same. The HT60 have an island cfm of about 850. The HT3bs are about 780 cfm.
Both of these turbos are extremely robust and have a .50 shaft diameter.
These turbo spin the opposite direction than the Garrett's and BW which will make them more work to convert once you want to spend more money on Garrett GT47xx or whatever.
You can usually find these turbos for under $300 a piece used. These are very good quality turbos. I understand that Cummins contributed a lot of money for R and D for these units.
Try to find units with 23cm turbine housing.
Remember, inducer size is not the only number you should care about. The inducer size is a better measurement when comparing turbos within a family of turbos of the same manufacturer.
500ci is pretty much the limit for these Holsets but they can support 1800 hp (ht3b) and 2000 hp (HT60) in twin form.
I have had a lot of issues putting Garrett  GT4708s on my liner. Knowing what I know now, I would of just used my HT3bs off of Vinny.
The guy I'm using for my reboring etc uses Holset HX55 units and has a front wheel drive import they're getting 900HP out of for drag racing. This is a young and has the finances to buy any turbo he wants but says the Holset is the best value for money and hasn't broken one yet. Not bad for a turbo that was made for diesel trucks.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 29, 2012, 05:15:35 AM
I (THINK) I would like something that can deliver 150-175  # per min at  a pr of 2.5 ---only the very largest like a BW 595 or the Garrett UTV 904-106 that can deliver those numbers solo---I am still studying---I may have to go to a dual set up I sure hope not.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dynoroom on December 29, 2012, 04:41:04 PM
Bill, look at a Garrett T18-A40.

Old school but might meet your needs.   8-)

Kinda big though......


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 29, 2012, 10:24:36 PM
Thanks Mike  I will check it out!

Well Summner held Turbo Map elementary school for a couple of hours this afternoon on the above mentioned web site:   

If this site has the formulas properly entered----"the cavat"----in their spread sheets----wow---wow--wow!!!!! Summner had spent several hours playing with 4 eng displacements

AA 572  Hooleys displacement ---I have a 565  4.60x4.25

AA 509  my 4.5 X 4.00 stroke  I can build a A 499 using the above block with a 3.76 stroke

440 I can build with a 3.25-3.3 stroke crank

What Summner "PROVED" to me if you are going to BUY a new turbo---make sure you have a map and work through the math on each combo---this stuff is crazy---some turbos have long narrow maps that are VERTICAL  others have a very wide map that resembles a rugy foot ball, that may be vertiical or lays over, ect ect . You need to do this for your self most folks are going to sell you what you ask for or what they have---try to find some one who will help you approach this from a facts based decision----CAVEAT older turbo stuff have  few FACTUAL MAPS available on the internett---or I havent found them yet.

Some combos are very flexible and can handle all three at different power setting---some will handle 1800 hp and not 1200--  others will handle 2 at different powersetting inbetween---the turbos range from 300.00 to 5000. on ebay  the big bucks do not automatically buy you what we need --sometimes a little more flexibility in what I am trying to do.

The most flexible combo involes 2 turbos  which I would like to avoid if possible---but I may be driven to---bottom line I have to find MAPS to make intelligent decisions! I have 2 turbos  one with a 88 enducer and the other a 91.One of these may work---I have that MAY work at various HP levels---I need to find MAPS.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 02, 2013, 10:03:30 AM
Instrumentation and the amount of man hours to intstall it will become a big part of what we will try to document.  I will try to document as "Dynoroom" suggests.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 16, 2013, 08:54:54 AM
Dynoroom at Mitech, McRat, RobFrey, Gordon at Superior Air Flow, Summner---all have chimed in on the fact that the two turbo set up is more FLEXIABLE---lets hope it is more --forgiving ---as the way we will proceed to start with will be 2 T-72s I have on loan from Skip Higginbotham. These turbos seem to fit my AA 509 or A 498 I could build with the parts I mostly have.  They stay in the "Islands" on the maps we can find for T-72s in the hoped for hp range of 1350 and we will need to stay around 70-7200 with what parts I have for the 509.  The 498 could go more Rs.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on January 17, 2013, 12:08:25 AM
Wow, shopping for a turbo sounds more confusing than shopping for a computer! :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: fordboy628 on January 17, 2013, 09:01:31 AM
Wow, shopping for a turbo sounds more confusing than shopping for a computer! :-D

Sparky,

It's all about the math, all about the math, all about the math, AND, it's complicated.........

AND, you are right, in that no one else cares as much about your application as you do.   When somebody makes a recommendation (especially a seller.....) ask to see the math that supports that choice.   It's just the smart thing to do.

 :cheers:
Fordboy


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 17, 2013, 06:24:41 PM
Well Summner is a math kind of guy----the last two days we have been on the phone off and on--- noodling a way to control these things when we shift and STEP the boost in the various gears

All so been working on a wing mount that mounts out by the outer hubs that can vary the down force  on a lakester the wing has to be 1' above the tires and can not exceed the width of the tires.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on January 19, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Sparky, You might want to talk to Rob about the variable angle wing. When I visited him, he showed me a pretty slick set up on his car!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 19, 2013, 10:20:34 PM
We have been ----LAKESTERS are suppose to be S-I-M-P-L-E


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 27, 2013, 11:55:26 PM
Well after mooting around on squirrelperformance.com a pair of T72s will make a great starting place. I have on Loan from Skip Higginbotham a pair with wastegates and a set of logmanifolds he built for Desert Rose. Wednesday, Linda and I drove up to Kingman Az to have lunch with Skip and Joyce and pickup the parts.

 Well one more time we became a victim of AZ time---in the winter we are an hour earlier, in the summer we are the same time.. Well Linda and I got to tap our toes for an hour because we got there on Mt. time and they got there on Pacific time---just one more little pleasure on the joys of living in AZ.

The manifolds will just barely fit inside W W's skin so it will be possible to emclose it if we can do something with the HEAT---I do not think I am going to even try at first---we will leave some vent holes.  this week I should be able to work on it for several days and put it on a trailer for Al Es little get together this Sat. at at Cholla Cabinets on Deer Valley just West of Cave Creek Rd.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 30, 2013, 09:00:06 PM
John, came over today, and we had a pretty good day in the shop,  We cut out some frame tubes, coped some, tacked some more, stared making some exhaust transitions from exhaust tubing to turbos..  I had been told to try to leave at least 6" of straight plenum to turbo  we used 2"x3" .120  tubing for Plenum leading into the turbo.  this will be easy to put 1.75 tubing for the wastegate stalks and WG exhaust pipes.  We have to get the turbos mounted the exhaust and intercooler in so that we will know where we can put frame diagionals


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 31, 2013, 02:18:17 PM
The parts go on & on  should have the turbos mounted and waste gates installed by Sunday.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on January 31, 2013, 03:16:58 PM
Come on Bill, give us some pics...... :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on January 31, 2013, 03:40:06 PM
Come on Bill, give us some pics...... :-D

Goggs beat me to it, pictures or it did not happen!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2013, 12:35:44 AM
We have been busy ----pondering and studying---At Turbodriven.com
B/W's turbo site  The MatchBot link under performance turbos has the skinny---but---down load their catalogue and familiarlize your self with their offering and their MODEL numbering system---it is not what it appears at first blush---long story short ---a pair of 177287s will fit my 509 motor realy well---I will most likey have to run 4 wastegates on them to realy control them.  These have a 80inducer and a 110 exducer on the compressor and a 96 inducer and a 88 exducer with a 1.32 A/R on the turbine housing these are rated at 750 to 1050 hp so they will move the 75#  each that will get me to the hoped for 1500 hp  at 6500RPM that I hope for---we will have to have a supporting "cast of thousands" to make all of this work!!!  These will be BIG--when I recieve them we will mount them side by side in the back of the car and start builing the "cast of thousands" around them--then we will have something to take picts of!!!!

A side note--my studying paid off --I caught 2 mistakes in the B/W online catlouge 8-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on February 08, 2013, 02:26:51 AM
1,500 HP @ 6,500 RPM = 1,211 ft.lb. @ 6,500 RPM, so it's reasonable to assume that maximum torque will be somewhat greater than 1,211. I'm curious what torque value the driveliine is designed to withstand?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 08, 2013, 08:12:25 AM
Desinged FOR  :-o  Whats that  :?   
 Jack if you havent figured it out by now I am NOT an engineer  :-o---
I am an old time hot rodder:  I scrounge parts,  :roll:  I THINK that I can make work and then see if I can make them stay together long enough for two trips at above hoped for speeds  lol

But I THINK that I should be OK. 
I have an early powerglide case with all top notch internals with an aftermarket "BELL" with a stock valve body and a GV-- not too concerend about the rest the driveshaft is only 12" and has the big ujoints. The GM 7.5" rear with the 2.14 gears with the Torsen should  not be much abused on the salt.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on February 09, 2013, 12:14:40 AM
As you were... carry on... :-)

Don't mind my outbursts- I was just a little shocked at seeing 1,200 ft.lb. of torque. I've broken a lot of stuff with half that much!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 09, 2013, 01:18:52 AM
Jack thanks for your concern---I have also broken a lot of STUFF---we will be walking it up---we will have egts,  o2's and will start out with out the boost we have to make sure the carb is right 1st then the boost--it will most likely be a strange ride over a long journey.

Jack,  I am also thankfull that we all have folks like yourself that are not afraid to speak up about our builds. Also for a LEARNING partner like Summner who challenges us both--because between the 2 of us we can come up with a LOT of questions and promt each other on things that need to be addressed.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 09, 2013, 01:30:42 AM

Paint it, copy it,  and paste it---it will be intresting to see how close we are able to get over time.

http://www.turbodriven.com///performanceturbos/matchbot/index.html#version=1.2&d
isplacement=8.35&CID=509.517&altitude=6600&baro=12.013&aat=90&turboconfig=2&comp
ressor=110s73&pt1_rpm=2000&pt1_ve=85&pt1_boost=1&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0&pt1_ipd=
2&pt1_mbp=0&pt1_ce=66&pt1_te=75&pt1_egt=1550&pt1_ter=1.14&pt1_pw=10.5&pt1_bsfc=0
.43&pt1_afr=11.5&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=3000&p
t2_ve=95&pt2_boost=5&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0&pt2_ipd=2&pt2_mbp=0&pt2_ce=68&pt2_te
=73&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.29&pt2_pw=3.02&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.5&pt2_wts=320
&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=4000&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=15&pt3_i
e=95&pt3_filres=0&pt3_ipd=2&pt3_mbp=0&pt3_ce=71&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=1
.78&pt3_pw=12.88&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11.5&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3
_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=5500&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=20&pt4_ie=92&pt4_filres=0&pt4_ipd
=2&pt4_mbp=0&pt4_ce=77&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=2.23&pt4_pw=27.89&pt4_bsfc
=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=6500&
pt5_ve=105&pt5_boost=20&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0&pt5_ipd=2&pt5_mbp=0&pt5_ce=72&pt5
_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=2.55&pt5_pw=31.88&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts
=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=7200&pt6_ve=105&pt6_boost=21&p
t6_ie=90&pt6_filres=0&pt6_ipd=2&pt6_mbp=0&pt6_ce=69&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_t
er=2.84&pt6_pw=33.32&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74
&pt6_wrsin=92044&


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on February 09, 2013, 10:10:53 AM
Wow! That's the best computer game I've ever seen!  :-o :-D :-D

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 09, 2013, 10:26:28 AM
PJ, it sure held Summ's and my attention for about 3 days :-o

Now the big challenge is to get systems in the cars that will deliver those results for LONG enought to figure out what is really going on!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 11, 2013, 11:19:03 PM
Well Brown Santa is busy hauling stuff in all directions  :-)  C&S Carb inbound, Blow through carb hat going to Summ's place along with some HD Alum tubing I found at a scrap yard to make some carb plenums from.  Summ is going to modify them as has been suggested by Gordon who makes the Extrem Velocity Turbo Carb hat.
As soon as we can mock all this stuff up we will start taking picts.

The bottom line is when doing turbos---My advisce---go to B/W MatchBot site and play with eng sizes and turbos!!!

what is almost JUNK for a 509---   fits a 438 like you cannot believe!!
Same turbos on a 565 will not do anything!!
 
BW 171702 $659.  turbos--- will make more power on my 509 than they will on my 565 by almost 100 hp welcome to the world of TURBOS!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on February 11, 2013, 11:42:11 PM
Anmd the world leader is called "Joe BlacK"!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Crosley on February 12, 2013, 10:52:19 PM
Wait a second ...  You claim Sumner is working on race car parts?  Not a sail  boat?   :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 12, 2013, 11:02:09 PM
Well, Crosley tonight he was welding on boat parts


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 14, 2013, 06:26:30 AM
HEADS UP RACERS

WOW how time changes some suppliers: 
I just experienced a horrible deception by a sales person named Danny at CV Products:
 I was stupidly lulled by past experiences. I was trying to buy blockoff plates for my oil filter and oil pump to install my new low profile drysump pan.  They had dropped the part number out of their computer system and he could not find it.  I told him never mind that I could find it elsewhere.  He went out of his way to "TRY TO HELP".  I told him it was not a big order don't waste his time.   No problem I will get back to you he says.  I found the part on line for $39.00 for a Moroso, $52 for a complete kit from Petersen, both including freight.

 I get a call back from Danny---"hey I found it but its not in the "System""  I told him what I found and the prices---"Don't worry" he says "we will be competive" Well My invoice reads for their "house brand"

$68.00 for plate
    7.50 for plug
   14.40
_12.99 Frt.
$102.99 total

In other words over double  what I could by it from Barnes, Petersen direct or even less on Ebay!

 I call them up thinking they want to do the "Right Thing"---dumb me.   Welcome to the world of the NEW CV PRODUCTS---nothing nada Zip!  Manager NOR Salesman would even talk to me!!

But someone heard me--I get a customer satisfaction survey  in my email assuring me that it will be posted!  Will be on the phone today trying to get a return authorization number!!









Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on February 14, 2013, 08:55:19 AM
Yea, good luck with the RA :-(


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on February 14, 2013, 10:40:18 AM
They should have an Olympic Games for these jokers. They'd be over subscribed. It's worldwide phenomenon. Greed is good. I don't want to get into my turbo debacle but it's the same deal. I hope you come right there, really. It's not only the money, it's the insult.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on February 14, 2013, 11:33:04 AM
Re-buyer re-sellers.  They sit on the internet while you call them, find the part, order it up with your credit card or paypal money, and then ship it to you with their "jack" built in.  In their twisted world, some of them think they are providing a service.  Sadly, some of the outfits we used to count on, now have an extra profit center at the back alley door.

Just parasites that are non- productive members of the species.  Ups, fedex, usps all love these guys.  Steady bread and butter for them. :evil:

Now you know why it takes 4-6 weeks to get a $10 part shipped from the next county!  Some items get double and triple downed, and you get boxes within boxes, with multiple shipping labels.  The smart ones now post in their ads, that "your item may not be shipped in original packaging to reduce waste and shipping costs".  That means they are pulling the same trick, and trying to hide the paper trail so you'll buy from them again!

Man...do I hate starting the day in this kind of bad mood.  Now I got to git out to the shop and hit something with a hammer!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 14, 2013, 12:23:13 PM
Sparky, get a hold of me next time you need something. I will take care of you, if I can not make a price, I will straight out tell you. My main warehouse is one of the biggies. One of the main reason I am getting back into the parts business is crappy customer service I have seen from many vendors.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on February 14, 2013, 05:00:14 PM
Good one Tman. I'm sure the guys will support you.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 14, 2013, 05:40:59 PM
We went with the slightly smaller 171702  not as much Hp with the 500 in motors but can run them as A  and B motors they will realy shine with displacments in the mid 400 cu in range.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: FlybyFord on February 18, 2013, 12:50:45 PM
New here and I really enjoy this build in particular...


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 18, 2013, 02:20:09 PM
Welcome if you FlybyFord does that mean you own a TriMotor??  :-D

Glad you enjoyed the build, just curious what intrested you the most

John and I spent 2.5 hours yesterday just trying to outsmart paper--cutting out paperdoll hinges for the canopy.  I now may try to take on alum. pattern

---we better get back on it-- ordered 2 each of the Godspeed 50MM bov and wastegates I had 1 bov but 50MM are only rated for 500 hp each---the guy at BW said to make sure you had enough capacity.  I am planning on putting 2 on the intercooler plenum where the two turbos enter and 1 by the carb hat.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: DND on February 18, 2013, 04:13:25 PM
Hi Sparky

What is a 50mm bov?

Thanks, Don


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on February 18, 2013, 04:22:13 PM
bov = blow off valve

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 18, 2013, 09:41:17 PM
Sparky, I have a picture of Andrew Welkers hinge system on his canopy laying here on the bench. I could send it to you if it would help?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: DND on February 18, 2013, 10:16:29 PM
Thanks Pete

As i recall they used to call them ' Pop off valves ' in the 70's

Don


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 18, 2013, 11:37:23 PM
T Man---all help welcome post the picts for all if you do not mind---thanks


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 19, 2013, 11:21:29 AM
I will have to see hwere they are, he sent them to me on the HAMB I think? I will repost them.

Actually I printed them of his thread!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314787&highlight=awelker&page=8


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on February 19, 2013, 12:41:52 PM
Something like an older trunk hinge?



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 20, 2013, 11:20:50 AM
Thanks C T,  something like that is what I have been trying to do but I "think" my issues are that part of my little pilot house extends below the surface and I am not getting the conflict of arcs--lol  just like a lot of other things I don't get   :-P

Brown Santa and the turbos are on the move--The Turbos have escaped Il. --made a scheduled stage change in Mo.,  picked up fresh horses in Ks scheduled to be here Fri.  we will be busy, busy, busy very soon!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 21, 2013, 06:33:03 PM
Pretty, Pretty, look at it, ain't  it purty--  :roll: lol 

Well it finally got here  the C&S 1025 blow through  purchased form Gordon at Superior Airflow; it should be good to a litttle over 1500.  I will be amazed if we work it up to over 1200 this season.  We have a lot to learn; thanks to all who are helping with the continuing ADULT education program.  If we are successful it will be because so many were unselfish with their insights, knowledge and help.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 21, 2013, 06:35:01 PM
What are you doing for a carb hat?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 22, 2013, 02:53:00 PM
Extreme Velocity 4500 series carb hat with homemade spacer

TMan I bought the hat and the C&S carb from Gordon at the same time as a package for some discount from Gordon.

he also has several versions of 4150 series


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on February 22, 2013, 04:30:31 PM
The carb hat combo are pure hotrod. Beautiful parts.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on February 22, 2013, 05:40:52 PM
Need to add sparkles to that bundgee, it make it go fast. :-D Gotta say I don't beleive I seen a carb that looked so simple on the outside.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 22, 2013, 09:24:55 PM
Cap'n T might be because its just a throttle body  :-o

 Well Brown Santa showed up at 5:13pm this afternoon---it was not like I wasn't waiting on him or anything, but I had the hand truck sitting out front.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on February 22, 2013, 11:12:43 PM
Talk'n bout dis....



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SteveM on February 22, 2013, 11:27:20 PM
Now THAT's a work of art. :-o

Steve


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 23, 2013, 09:32:12 AM
Cap'nT,   :-o  I suspect that C&S must buy the bodies from Holley as raw blanks, and they make their own "blocks" and at the hp. range we eventually hope to reach we had to go with the dual needle seat float bowls.  Gordon at Superior manufactures and sells to several aftermarket carb. modification companes that build higher hp. carbs the require much larger amounts of fuel to the bowls.

Gordon really recomended at least a 2" spacer for a "calming" plenumun area above the carb.  That spacer is also necessary if one wants to run the hat straight back or forward with "factory single needle valve bowls".  Both Hooley and I are planning on running the hat straight.

 I am going to have to swap my "blocks" front to back because I am mounting my carb backwards with the fuel lines on the drivers side of the car because of some extensions that I am not familiar with that are installed because of G load fuel sloshing that we really do not have to deal with but because they are installed we need to put them pointing to the rear.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 23, 2013, 10:16:16 AM
Cap'nT,   :-o  I suspect that C&S must buy the bodies from Holley as raw blanks, and they make their own "blocks" and at the hp. range we eventually hope to reach we had to go with the dual needle seat float bowls.  Gordon at Superior manufactures and sells to several aftermarket carb. modification companes that build higher hp. carbs the require much larger amounts of fuel to the bowls.

Gordon really recomended at least a 2" spacer for a "calming" plenumun area above the carb.  That spacer is also necessary if one wants to run the hat straight back or forward with "factory single needle valve bowls".  Both Hooley and I are planning on running the hat straight.

 I am going to have to swap my "blocks" front to back because I am mounting my carb backwards with the fuel lines on the drivers side of the car because of some extensions that I am not familiar with that are installed because of G load fuel sloshing that we really do not have to deal with but because they are installed we need to put them pointing to the rear.

Just started my Saturday coffee, going to have to read this one a few times as I know it pertains to what we are doing! :oops: :? :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 23, 2013, 11:11:20 AM
Tman,  I will try my best to answer and questions I may have created.

look into 169012 BW turbos they are extremely cheap new, compressors can be modified and they have optional turbine housings.

Compressor 63.5mm in   91.4mm exd
Turbine       83.5mm in   74.0mm exd  with a 110 A/R housing
 
I guess these  BWs that are normally on 60 series 11.1L and 12.7 L engs are really cheap and cores are so plentiful because so many just buy new ones instead of rebuilding them.

The turbo guys love to sell these things aparently because with the small 64MM compressor inducer and the fairly large turbine it is fairly hard to get these into surge with a smaller eng. and they will still produce  50-70 pounds per minute, with the right displacement combo.

On a 325 cuin with a 67 inducer a pair of these will deliver over 100ppm  with a compressor exit temp. of 375 deg. a B'ville on a 90 deg.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 23, 2013, 10:28:13 PM
Well one of my fellow belly tankers over a Liberty Garage sent me a little care package today. I think he felt sorry for me or he was trying to protect the public immage of ALL of us belly tankers.  It seems that he just could not stand it that I could not master hinge paper dolls!!

Note how these cute little puppies first move ''baaack" then up!!

Steve there will "Liberty Garage" on the flanks of the Wild Weasel in 24" letters, you may have trouble finding them--- but they will be there!!!!  lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 25, 2013, 02:49:40 PM
Those hinges work well, made by Sachse Rod SHop in Texas. We used them on a Chevy fleetline trunk. The need some help laterally when open, they can wobble a bit. Your canopy should be much better than a big decklid .


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: NathanStewart on February 27, 2013, 03:48:51 PM
Bill, you've got a PM regarding boost control stuff.  Come to think of it, I think I owe Tman a phone call about boost control stuff too...


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on February 27, 2013, 03:51:49 PM
Bill, you've got a PM regarding boost control stuff.  Come to think of it, I think I owe Tman a phone call about boost control stuff too...

You do :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on February 28, 2013, 09:37:34 AM
lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 02, 2013, 11:49:34 AM
Tim and Roger, of Classic AA/BG Red Camaro fame,  came by yesterday and picked me up, we went to Cholla to see Al Eshenbach new "TANK" Lakester it is a tank because of how heavy it is built--- not the body covering ---Al and his love of early Chryslers and FUEL will be continued. This is so fun to watch and SEE.  He keeps giving me grief about when am I going to get me a REAL race motor and get away from those weak A-- truck motors!!!

We picked up Bill and Al and the 5 of us went to Fish Friday at Cracker Barrel!  We had a great lunch with Tim and Roger telling their transition stories from Rookies to 1 1/2 Red hats above 250 mph.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 07, 2013, 08:56:47 AM
Heard from Summner---he and Ruth were motoring through Alabama headed to "le BOAT"

He reported that he spent 2-3 days with Hooley and they made great progress with their "layout" for the turbo system.  He said they were able to  place the turbos, intercoolers and were able to use some 5" exhaust pipes from 18 wheelers on both the intake and exhaust side of the turbo and intercooler. the exhaust, intake and carb hat all use 5".
He also reported that he sure was glad Hooley decided to stretch the nose 24" instead of 15-18" that it was filling up fast!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on March 07, 2013, 02:44:55 PM
Spark.......THANKS for keeping us informed that Sum is still summarizing.

He is good people and whenever he returns to our world he will be royally

welcomed.  HI, Ruth and Sum.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 07, 2013, 03:02:16 PM
My good Dr.  he is headed back our way---he is very involved with Hooley and the 'Studie"


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 09, 2013, 09:40:24 AM
Now for the next mind warp,  Instrumentation- Data logging:
  I have an 10 year old  QuickData,  I called Dynoroom  Mike at Mitech about the new and the old versions ---He gave me some pointers on how to make my old unit work better for me.

He also pointed me toward OMEGA  website which has all kinds of instrumentation sensors.  Thanks Mike---I think---he warned me that was also a website one could spend hours on---just seeing and learning about the possibilities. 

He was most helpful with helping me understand why he places his sensors as he does.

As I now understand-- to learn what ones turbo system is doing, one needs the following information:

turbine inlet sensors:                                           1. temp & 2. pressure
Between the compressor outlet and the intercooler 3. temp & 4. pressure
Between the intercooler and  throttlebody or carb   5. temp & 6. pressure

Add to that, I will also hope to have roving sensors to log my intercooler water exit temps to learn if my series intercooler works in practice. I am sure my early QuickData is channel limited---I will need to learn to use it to my advantage.

Where am I going to PUT all this stuff?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on March 09, 2013, 09:56:13 AM
That's "putting" it mildly. I have a pickup and I think I'll be short on space soon. I feel for you Sparky.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on March 09, 2013, 10:53:20 AM
You guys have plenty of room, don't know what your complaining about :0

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 09, 2013, 11:19:27 AM
Jon,  Some how I knew some bike guy was going to speak up---but the SIZE of the turbo stuff makes a huge difference---there is a reason why some of these cars are so large--Speed Deamon and others come to mind---when you start trying to make a lot of HP---there are big cooling problems that must be dealt with virtually every system on the car.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on March 09, 2013, 11:24:09 AM
Don't be picking on us poor bike guys. :)
Couldn't resist sorry Sparky, I have all this to look forward to.
Putting the underdrive in is going to make something that was going to be a squeeze now very tight, motor comes forward and everything changes :/

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on March 09, 2013, 12:04:51 PM
Jon,  Some how I knew some bike guy was going to speak up---but the SIZE of the turbo stuff makes a huge difference---there is a reason why some of these cars are so large--Speed Deamon and others come to mind---when you start trying to make a lot of HP---there are big cooling problems that must be dealt with virtually every system on the car.

Got the HRM issue with the Speed Demon on the bench right now studying it. It is amazing how LITTLE the intercoolers are! The plumbing takes up the bulk of the space. I am using it as a template for my own packaging and i think I am winning the battle!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 09, 2013, 10:05:18 PM
Tman  sometimes I think I am winning but then a wall comes along---well I have pondered and pondered---then I got the plasma torch out and cut the wall---actually some of the weight bars, 180# of lead-- out---  back in 100# of turbos. This thing is not going  to be anything like I originally visulized, but i think we can make it work.

3. They don't quite touch in the middle
2. I am going to put a heat shield from the top of the lead  weights over to the lower frame rail, semi seal it, and vent that area
1. This manifold box is for attaching the wastegate, exhaust pressure pick up and the turbine inlet temp sensor.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 10, 2013, 04:15:08 AM
Jon,  Some how I knew some bike guy was going to speak up---but the SIZE of the turbo stuff makes a huge difference---there is a reason why some of these cars are so large--Speed Deamon and others come to mind---when you start trying to make a lot of HP---there are big cooling problems that must be dealt with virtually every system on the car.

Got the HRM issue with the Speed Demon on the bench right now studying it. It is amazing how LITTLE the intercoolers are! The plumbing takes up the bulk of the space. I am using it as a template for my own packaging and i think I am winning the battle!

Hey Trent,

oh, the confidence...... If you think you're winning the battle, I wanna bet you an IPA. When we pulled the pinion in the SOS during Speedweek here, there were a few raised eyebrows when I said , "we have to lift the water tank (220lbs) and hoist the motor to pull the tail-shaft enough to undo the pinion nut....." true.... but you'll have more room than that........


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 10, 2013, 07:01:10 AM
....." true.... but you'll have more room than that........"  :roll:

LOL Maybe the only time you will ever have as much room as you need is in your minds eye:  I had two of the three water pumps installed with one turbo.  Now I have no idea where we are going to put two of them.  :?  I can move 1 in front of the engine


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 10, 2013, 07:29:22 AM
I thought a little more about this Bill and figured that satisfaction is only ever a temporary thing with space in special construction....there is ALWAYS something else you can do with it.

We moved the battery this year.....now we might be able to fit an SBC in it.

JOKING, OK......I stole that quote from somewhere...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 10, 2013, 07:47:57 AM
LOL   You guys were rocking in the shop yesterday--- there is one song  I am going to have to listen to the words of real close--the one about the chick-- or sheila??  with the tats and a younger brother 
so far all I get  :|  it is a lament of some kind

ps strange that you mention battery-- that is one of the things that I am  considering relocating!  lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on March 10, 2013, 06:32:55 PM

Here ya go Bill,
It's called "Ted's an old Biker"

Ted's an old biker, Bet thinks he don't like her , she stays all the same.
She's at a loose end, 'n' Teddy's her only friend since she'd given up the game.
Well she talks when she chews she's got heaps of tattoos, like "press here for service" and "vacancy"
She's a bit of a cook, but she gives him that look like you men are all the same.

Well there's Andy me brother , he got his looks from me mother, he's younger than me.
Ted gets a beer and says "I thought he was queer, whatcha cookin for tea"
She says "nothin for you , talk the way thatcha do, what happened to ya last slave?"
Ted's a little bit hurt, but she's wearin' a skirt, and it's Saturday.

He used to fix cars, now he just keeps the bar at the Terminus.
He says "you know ya life doesn't suck just cause ya run outa luck, take a look at us"
She's good lookin and I'm bright, I reckon we'll do alright, but they wouldn't have us two in church"
Ol' Teddy's no fool he just used to wag school with the older boys.

They do the annual run, the Beeza still pulls a ton, with the two of 'em.
There's Polar and Panda, Humphrey and Head-is and Paddington
But Ol' Brown Bear just died, and Little Ted's still inside, for some other blokes robbery.
But he did own the gun, and he shared in the funds so he said "I spose ya got me"

You know Ted the old biker, Bet's convinced he don't like her, he keeps it that way.
She's got her own games, she calls him all sorts of names, you should hear what she'll say.
But Teddy loves her to death, though she hates being called Beth he slips it some times anyway,
They're sharin' the van, til they move up to Cairns, where the weather's fine.......


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: grumm441 on March 10, 2013, 06:56:35 PM
How did that get on the CD
G


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 10, 2013, 07:43:24 PM
Wow.  That's all I can say.  Wow.

Night before last Nancy and I went to a blues show here in Marquette.  Good music -- a father, son, and nephew from Mississippi, and - ready for this -- a 19-year-old white kid from Cheyenne, Wyoming.  He's the lead guitar.  Freakin' AMAZINGLY GREAT!

19 years old -- what's he going to be when he's been playing the blues for more than the eight years he's got in already?

But put him on lead and fiddlin' around with this lyric -- I'd pay money to see that show.

Okay, back to Sparky's car thread.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on March 10, 2013, 11:30:40 PM

I said I am winning the battle, not that it is over ..............yet. And we don't need to bet the IPAs, there will be one for you regardless.
Jon,  Some how I knew some bike guy was going to speak up---but the SIZE of the turbo stuff makes a huge difference---there is a reason why some of these cars are so large--Speed Deamon and others come to mind---when you start trying to make a lot of HP---there are big cooling problems that must be dealt with virtually every system on the car.

Got the HRM issue with the Speed Demon on the bench right now studying it. It is amazing how LITTLE the intercoolers are! The plumbing takes up the bulk of the space. I am using it as a template for my own packaging and i think I am winning the battle!

Hey Trent,

oh, the confidence...... If you think you're winning the battle, I wanna bet you an IPA. When we pulled the pinion in the SOS during Speedweek here, there were a few raised eyebrows when I said , "we have to lift the water tank (220lbs) and hoist the motor to pull the tail-shaft enough to undo the pinion nut....." true.... but you'll have more room than that........


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 11, 2013, 01:17:06 AM
d-a-m-m---- Dr G  I read the WORDS and I still do not think that I know more than it's a LAMENT of some kind  :-P

SSS  there have been quite a few White Boys who play a mean Blues GEEtar, Stevie Ray, Eric Clampton & EJ to some extent come to mind


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 11, 2013, 01:30:53 AM
How did that get on the CD
G


Some one we know Grumm ?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: grumm441 on March 11, 2013, 02:06:38 AM
every time I hear that song, I wonder how he got Rod Dusty Dog to sing on his CD
G


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on March 11, 2013, 09:57:39 AM
Wow.  That's all I can say.  Wow.

Night before last Nancy and I went to a blues show here in Marquette.  Good music -- a father, son, and nephew from Mississippi, and - ready for this -- a 19-year-old white kid from Cheyenne, Wyoming.  He's the lead guitar.  Freakin' AMAZINGLY GREAT!

19 years old -- what's he going to be when he's been playing the blues for more than the eight years he's got in already?

But put him on lead and fiddlin' around with this lyric -- I'd pay money to see that show.

Okay, back to Sparky's car thread.

I bet  that young man's name Taylor Scott?  He's local, and very good!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on March 11, 2013, 10:14:39 AM
Thanks for the prompt.  I looked up the band's site -- www.gradychampion.com -- and sure enough, Taylor Scott is the lad.  What a talent.  He's worth remembering.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dynoroom on March 11, 2013, 10:24:09 AM
Hey Bill, when we talked the other day I said I'd send you a picture of the way I measure temp. & press. using the same access port boss. The unit at the top of the photo is a 1/8" open tip k-type thermocouple I use for temps less then ~300 degrees F. The lower unit is also 1/8" but a shielded thermocouple good to ~1850 degrees IIRC. The thread on the tee is 1/8" pipe and I install a -4 AN fitting in the side of the tee to get pressure readings from the same port. Kills two birds with one tap.  :-)  Have fun!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on March 11, 2013, 11:56:47 AM
That is a great idea, Michael-- thanks.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 12, 2013, 12:00:38 AM
Mike thanks for posting.

Had a fairly good day!  Jim Price of Saltiene new called checking up on me.  dropped the intercooler of so Marty can work on the incoming end---we need major surgery for the intake end.  Worked on the turbo mounting brackets and the incoming turbine 90 deg turn manifold where the waste gate and sensors will be mounted.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 14, 2013, 10:57:06 PM
Well,  slowly and not too surely we are getting there--found a new use for bending mistakes---found two curved tubes in my scrap pile that I have made into wastegate stalks-- that gets them out from under the turbos and into an area above the rear axle.  Finally I think I "heard" the car tell me how to mount them. should be able to do that  in the next couple of days.  Ordered a 4" 90 deg alum. weldable el from Irrigation Supply for the motor end of the intercooler.  Still waiting for the caar to tell me about the pumps.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: maguromic on March 14, 2013, 11:09:53 PM
Finally I think I "heard" the car tell me how to mount them.

Sparky, we should start calling you the "Salt Whisperer".  :cheers:  Tony


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 15, 2013, 10:36:22 PM
lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on March 16, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Sparky, what style intercooler are you using-did I miss it?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 16, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Buddy, we are building an in series inter cooler using two cores and 2 water pumps so the air will be exposed to 18" of core and we plan to running around 35- 40 gals of ice water through the 2 core on a pass! there are some picts some where we are in the final stages of construction---we have to mount the turbos then build both ends of the inter cooler plenums. I ordered the 4" 90 for the outlet end should be here next week.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 18, 2013, 11:26:15 PM
got a little more done--have one turbo nailed down and just need to massage the other ones locating bracket---then tack---will have to redo one of the waste gate stalks to get it out of the car where I want it.  Resumed work on my stepped log manifolds I am making using weld els and .120 dom.  I have to figure out a slip joint to gow with my others---picts to follow.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on March 20, 2013, 04:09:28 PM
Sparky, lets see some header pics, I am at the same stage with my Weld Els.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2013, 09:06:50 PM
3/8" header plate with 2 3/8" tubing holes

1    2" 90  &
3    2" 45s

my 90--45s to mate the 45s to the log

crude mill work to "saddle" the log

in the background one can see the Log with the holes cut in it with a plasma cutter and a rotary file
 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 20, 2013, 09:08:32 PM
This is  my attempt at a log manifold: the id of my BBC heads exhaust port is 2"

I used 3, 2" 45 deg weld ells and 1, 90 deg, the OD of the weld ells is 2.378"

#1 port will have a 90 deg ell

the 2 center ports, # 3 and # 5  log is 2 5/8' .120  DOM tubing whose id is 2 3/8" id

the  # 7end  port will step up to 2 7/8" .120 DOM which has a 2 5/8" id

I am going to leave the two bolts holes between #3 & #5 stay the same diam., I will "step" increase the bolt holes toward each end of the header plates per Corky Bells book.  I think that these Dom steps will "grow and seal" under heat; if they will not-- I can always weld the up and HOPE the stepped holes will stop the headers from try to make like snakes and crawl off

TMan hope this helps --- YMMV


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on March 20, 2013, 10:15:39 PM
Great progress! Keep going!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on March 21, 2013, 08:45:06 AM
Thanks Sparky, we are neck and neck onthe headers.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on March 22, 2013, 11:33:21 AM
got a little more done--have one turbo nailed down and just need to massage the other ones locating bracket---then tack---

Went over to Sparky's last night and helped with massaging and tacking the other turbos mounting bracket. Will head back over there Tuesday night to see what else I can help with. Thanks Sparky for allowing me to help on the car.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 27, 2013, 11:41:38 PM
lots going on:  learned the difference between DAI- data acquisition internal and DAE data acquisition external  :-D

Sent the ECU off today to BigStuff 3 -- should be able to upgrade it to get most of what I need done
1. Add a second wb O2
2 add individual coils
3 add baro compensation
4 increase the data logging time

I will be using my EFI system as a data logger for the eng.  just will not be feeding the injectors

I will be using my Quick data for the chassis, EGTs and Turbos temps and pressures.

Met a new guy---Mark---he is a 5.9 kind of guy---PULLS SLEDS---
but he runs a data logging system :-D :-D

Frankie came over again tonight-- we worked on the log manifolds-- Frozen Boost stuff came in  Marty should be able to put some more time into the INTERCOOLER


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on March 27, 2013, 11:59:00 PM
Was glad to help Sparky, see ya next week.  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 29, 2013, 06:35:44 PM
Went to the Steel store today and picked up 4 45 deg 2.5 weld ells and 2" water pipe---should be able to finish my log manifolds this week end. 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on March 29, 2013, 07:06:51 PM
Buddy, we are building an in series inter cooler using two cores and 2 water pumps so the air will be exposed to 18" of core and we plan to running around 35- 40 gals of ice water through the 2 core on a pass! there are some picts some where we are in the final stages of construction---we have to mount the turbos then build both ends of the inter cooler plenums. I ordered the 4" 90 for the outlet end should be here next week.

Sparky, your build is exciting to watch!

What is the advantage of the intercoolers you are running, versus the one Tony is running on his car? I'm always curious to learn these things.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on March 29, 2013, 10:18:36 PM

Sent the ECU off today to BigStuff 3 -- should be able to upgrade it to get most of what I need done
1. Add a second wb O2
2 add individual coils
3 add baro compensation
4 increase the data logging time


Now you're talking! There is going to be a learning curve but you are going to like it.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 29, 2013, 10:40:25 PM
Buddy What Tony is running is very much like the core out of a eng oil cooler off an earlier big Cummins 855 diesel  and others---they have a LOT going for them and are proven to be Very Effective. I would have need at least 2.

 I wanted to see if my "2 pass" in series cores would work---If these el cheapo CiComs will get the 150#s of 350 deg, 15psi,  air down to around 100 deg.--- then I will know that with much better cores I could POSSIBLY cool a good bit more air and  handle 80 deg more temps


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 03, 2013, 04:41:04 PM
Crissa Raymond came over this morning and we had a good 2 hours in the shop.  It never ceases to amaze me what a different pair of eyes can do.  I have hours in the placement of the hinges---to no avail---In 10 min. she tried them much lower---wallaha---I think it going to work-- we will know when we tack them in place..  Almost done with my taxes---then can get on the CAR hard..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 03, 2013, 10:35:17 PM
Frankie and I made the mounting brackets for the canopy hinges tonight and tacked them in  will work on them and the headers thr. pm


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 06, 2013, 07:41:53 AM
Well it turns out we were not as enlightened  as we though we were about the hinges--Marty saw another way and we tried that and with temporary clamps the "pilot house" raises and lowers.

 Andy and I were able to paper doll a new instrument panel yesterday as well as build a new GV combo blow box  and battery mount.  This frees up the area behind the ice water tank for the pair of Philly Racing Products 50 GPM remote pumps---they are expected to only pump around 20 GPM at 20 psi through the intercooler.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Interested Observer on April 06, 2013, 07:09:04 PM

Sparky,
You might like to think that those water pumps will do what they say, but if you are really depending on that kind of performance, you would be well advised to get a certified performance curve from the manufacturer (which they won’t have or give to you) or else do the testing yourself--and be prepared for significant disappointment.

Have you tested the flow resistance of the intercoolers?  Are you sure you need that much flowrate (20 gpm) to get the required cooling?  The actual arrangement of this “double pass” scheme has never been quite clear to me, nor possibly to others.  Do you have a schematic diagram?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on April 06, 2013, 07:21:26 PM
The Weldon Pump Co. provides curves of their pumps-- flow rate vs pressure at various input voltages. They are really expensive, though.

I have a DC pump made by Weldon that was made for a winterization kit for a 30kW diesel generator that may work for you. There are only military part numbers on it so I've never been able to track those numbers to a pump that has published flow curves.

The only catch is that it is 24VDC, not 12VDC. The pump is also rated as 3.3 amps. If you can use it, let me know, Bill.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 07, 2013, 07:59:45 AM
 on a 2 pass the water has to enter and exit at the same end it is a way of maximising the Delta T or pulling the most BTUs out

           l       l        l
          v      v        v   air flow
   l __________________________l
   l                                                      l
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<     l
   l                                                   ^ l
   l-----------------------------  ^ l
   l                                                  ^ l
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ^ l
   l___________________________l
   l
IO  very valid points  I hope to test the unit soon. I should soon be able to  rig it up and see what kind of flow rates I can get. I havent done the math on how many BTUs there are in 150 # of air at 350 degrees but there are a bunch---we want to remove 250 degrees and have the water coming out at 100deg in the second stage so that we can use it for cooling water for the eng---


Neil,  let me try this set up and see how it goes---I should know in the next 30 days how much water I can get through this set up.  I am doing things that I know are not the best ---but I am running into COMPROMISE---compromise this to get this in there---the dreaded LSR compromise


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 07, 2013, 09:51:32 AM
Sparky,
Like Neil I am trying to get my brain around your intercooler/engine thinking. As it looks to me you are planning to take water from your water/ice reservoir and pump it through an intercooler that is double pass, i.e. the water passes through one core and then back through a second core with the turbo air blowing through on the air side of both of the cores, then the water will continue on to cool the engine and then back to the water/ice reservoir.(?) Is the water/ice reservoir pressurized?

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 07, 2013, 10:07:05 AM
cold water tank is not under pressure---my radiator in a box is not under pressure, other than the pressure from the pump  as the water is being circulated

We may have to use a "booster pump" between the intercooler and the radiator in a box


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on April 07, 2013, 10:53:43 AM
Bill;

Joline & I are going to Germany this week but we'll be back on May 2. I'll check to see if you've decided by then.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 07, 2013, 12:30:10 PM
Sparky,
So your water goes from the reservoir through the the charge air intercooler then through the engine and then through your "radiator in a box" and then back to the water/ice reservoir and the only pressure in the system would be that required to overcome the flow resistance??

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Interested Observer on April 07, 2013, 05:48:49 PM
Sparky,
The purpose or advantage of tying the two cooling requirements into the same system escapes me.  Sounds like you are going to wind up running icewater through the engine for the first half of the run and run engine-heated water through the intercooler for the last half or, run engine heated water through the reservoir and hence through the intercooler from the outset if you warm the engine before launch. (??)

150 lb air with dT=250F  = 9000 Btu = 132 lb water at dT = 68F
150 lb/min at dT=250F = 212 hp.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 07, 2013, 06:24:07 PM
eng system is closed--hopefully the last intercooler water  should be around ambient temp it then is the cooling water for the radiator in a box then back to the ice tank

 the water for the first core comes out of the inter cooler to a "boil box" ---an enclosed box around the air box where the turbos enter to make a 90 deg. turn to start through the ice water cooled intercooler that boil box is vented to the rear of the car

Ice water only goes to the intercoolers   the first stage should be   hot when it comes out---hence only to the boil box then vented the second stage water should be much cooler around ambient or less


                    l                                                                    l
hot air in >>l                                                                    l   cool air to eng
                    l         out         in                   out         in      l
                     to boil box                           H2O
                                                                  to rad. in box    then return to ice water tank



We warm the eng up to 160 deg with the radiator in the box empty so that we heat only the eng water and the water in the radiator which has a 30# cap on it. we run a Stewart high performance MECHANICAL pump fo max in block pressure.  We have a seperate pump to empty the radiator box back to where we want the water.  I am thinking that we can delay the hot water return to the ice water tank by how empty we start the eng. coolant box .


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 07, 2013, 08:28:02 PM
It is amazing what all get done when when you spend most of the day in the shop!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 07, 2013, 09:31:22 PM
ugly but should be functional   will weld the 45 deg 2.5" to get it back inside the car


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 08, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
have port matched  the runner-log  junctions with a die grinder on one and 80 percent done on the second.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on April 08, 2013, 04:12:22 PM
Great progress, Sparky! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 10, 2013, 10:02:22 PM
drivers side

Special thanks to the Midas Muffler shop on Bell Road & just East of 42nd st in Phoenix the Mgr. has run a turbo Camaro.  He flanged their thick wall 2.5" exhaust tubing to fit the 2.5" weld ell that I beveled the ID to fit the 2.625 Id dom that the last step of my log manifold. from there we will go to section of 2.25 tubing that we have flared to to match the 2.5 tubing so that we can weld them.  I will order some 2.25 v band clamps so that we can drop out this section to be able to drop the turbo or manifold separately.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 10, 2013, 10:03:40 PM
pass side


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 11, 2013, 11:22:57 AM
HEAT CONCERNS

this is how close to the rear end the turbos are.  I am going to have to bring oil to the turbos, and have a scavenge bay of the dry sump pump set aside for that.

 I am thinking of also pressure feeding the pinion brg and pluming a return from the back of the dif cover.  I already run my rear axle in motor oil so that would not be a change.
Ideas, thoughts or comments welcome


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on April 11, 2013, 11:34:53 AM
Interesting, I have never seen anyone try to combine a turbo with a diff. this should be a good one to follow. :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 11, 2013, 11:39:48 AM
Ct  I am trying to to KEEP from joining them together with heat--- hence the use of oil to try to take the heat away---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on April 11, 2013, 11:41:03 AM
We might have to wind up wrapping the diff or the turbos in some kind of thermal blanket to help keep the diff cool.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on April 11, 2013, 12:41:45 PM
Hard to tell from the pic if there is room, but I would wrap both, but thats me, I'm usually set on overkill as is. :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 11, 2013, 01:03:29 PM
no clearance is absolutely the issue

Update: 
Talked to my buddy Ratcliff the rear end guy---he suggested that I spray the top of the ring gear on the back side  to not interfere  with the normal pumping action of the ring gear.  Thought that it would be good to circulate the oil to keep it cooler should not run over160-175F max.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on April 11, 2013, 11:40:21 PM
You could run the Tilton elec gear oil pump.  I did a little street rod, a few years back, that I ring pumped through a large tube trans cooler.  That was enough to let me run 40w on the street, which really helps when your hotrod only has 1600cc!  It looks like that little pump is cheaper than a couple rolls of heat wrap...which is a real testament to overpricing of simple stuff, in my opinion.

The best heat proofing you could do, perhaps, would be to strip the catalytic converter/exhaust pipe shields out of a late model small front-wheel-drive car.  These are running down the center tunnel.  They use a dimpled aluminum that is so thin (but stiff enough due to dimplng) that it moves the heat very fast over a lot of distance.  This allows the very hot cats to live very close to the floor, without problems for the life of the car.  They can even run the exhaust pipe through a relief in the fuel tank without driving tank into boil.  Float the shields between the components, then lots of bolts where you feel like dumping the calories...through aluminum washers.  The shapes you need are already there.

Thin aluminum and lots of area is why the fish cooks slow on the BBQ when wrapped in too big a fold of aluminum foil.  If you leave part of the foil hanging out in cool air, it wont cook at all!  Found out the hard way when I thought I'd be clever and make myself a big handle that wasnt in the heat....the evening got dark long before the salmon did.  Add the mosquitos, and dinner in the tent was potato chips, green beans, and bottled water.....but I woke up in the night understanding why the heat shields got so long and thin.

Regards, JimL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 12, 2013, 12:43:58 AM
ooooh  I like stuff from the wrecking yard---great suggestion


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on April 12, 2013, 12:50:18 AM
Jim's right. I was working under the wife's car and saw that dimpled Ally heat shield running the length of the tunnel. The wrecking yards must be full of that stuff, undamaged and ripe for the picking.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 12, 2013, 01:02:18 AM
You could run the Tilton elec gear oil pump.  I did a little street rod, a few years back, that I ring pumped through a large tube trans cooler.  That was enough to let me run 40w on the street, which really helps when your hotrod only has 1600cc!  It looks like that little pump is cheaper than a couple rolls of heat wrap...which is a real testament to overpricing of simple stuff, in my opinion.

The best heat proofing you could do, perhaps, would be to strip the catalytic converter/exhaust pipe shields out of a late model small front-wheel-drive car.  These are running down the center tunnel.  They use a dimpled aluminum that is so thin (but stiff enough due to dimplng) that it moves the heat very fast over a lot of distance.  This allows the very hot cats to live very close to the floor, without problems for the life of the car.  They can even run the exhaust pipe through a relief in the fuel tank without driving tank into boil.  Float the shields between the components, then lots of bolts where you feel like dumping the calories...through aluminum washers.  The shapes you need are already there.

Thin aluminum and lots of area is why the fish cooks slow on the BBQ when wrapped in too big a fold of aluminum foil.  If you leave part of the foil hanging out in cool air, it wont cook at all!  Found out the hard way when I thought I'd be clever and make myself a big handle that wasnt in the heat....the evening got dark long before the salmon did.  Add the mosquitos, and dinner in the tent was potato chips, green beans, and bottled water.....but I woke up in the night understanding why the heat shields got so long and thin.

Regards, JimL

I got out of the car and picked up a piece of that quilted stuff a while back, she laughed at me, it's good stuff....it works really really well. We had a shield under our fuel tank where the collectors merged I sandwiched some cement sheet between two pieces of polished 1.6mm Al. The only query I have is we are dealing with intense heat for a short period . Is the heat soak capability as important as radiant shielding?

Love your posts Jim, read them all, gets me thinkin...... no, not having salmon tonight, I prefer it charred anyway..... :wink:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 12, 2013, 08:19:01 AM
I would bet that heat shield has to have some air flow or heat sinks as Jim L suggested.  I was planning on isolating the exh. tubing inside of a "Duct" from the outside skin to the turbo area and some reverse scoops on the bottom of the car for the heated air to rejoin it's brothers and sisters in the low pressure area under the car.  I have burned the plug wires off Ratical  I would just as soon not do it on the Weasel.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on April 12, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Use the curves to cup around the turbos.  You want the aluminum to get HOT so it will move heat faster to a cooler spot.  It will re-radiate much less than it carries away.  Those shields have very little clearance to the floor tunnel, but they do the job.  If you try to just "make a spot shield" it does nothing.  Send that heat for a long hike.

Second law of thermodynamics....entropy at work!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 13, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Sparky,
In the picture of the "clearance" between the dif and the turbo is the hot side of the turbo, and it looks like it is I don't think you can protect the dif no matter what you use for shielding. The turbine side will be at 1500 deg F+ at full boost and the dominate method of heat transfer at that temp is radiant heat transfer, which is based upon the temp dif between the hot piece, the turbo housing, and the mass pf the dif which at a substantially lower temp will be the heat sink for the hot side of the turbo.  When we first ran a turbo Chev V6 in a Lola T600 the turbo was 15-18 inches from the floor of the engine compartment, which was the top of the ground effect tunnels and they were on fire within 2 laps at Willow Springs. At the end of the 5 mile at Bonneville your diff will be full of coal and the seals will be carbon. We covered the tops of the tunnels with corrugated polished stainless sheet with a ceramic cloth and also had special covers made for the hot side of the turbos, this allowed us to actually run the car but everything that was in the line of sight of the turbo wanted to be shielded or it would burn.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 13, 2013, 12:23:17 AM
Rex,  I recognize you are right. I think my only hope is shielding for radiant heat with the help of lot of help from  a lot of air, water and oil


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on April 13, 2013, 09:08:02 AM
I see what Rex means, now.  Those under car shields are dealing with less than half that heat, in lower volume, and with an ECM capable of taking corrective action to cool the cat.  

This reminds me of Chuck Berry's "Maybelline".....
"Cadillac rollin' 'bout a hundred-and-four,
     Ford got hot and wouldnt do no more,
          Sky got cloudy and it started to rain,
              I tooted my horn for the passing lane,
                   Raindrops blowin' up under the hood,
                       I know'd that was doin' my Ford a' good..."

Sorry I got you steered wrong. :oops:  i really dont know anything about turbos.

JimL
Orange burst Strat heavy, no whammy, and a GenzBenz


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 13, 2013, 09:52:39 AM
Jim L do not throw the towel in so fast---you have a great point---Rex just has defined just how big the problem is.  By using some of your suggestions about shielding and using air, water and oil as  transfer agents---  I bet we can skin this cat---  I just know from my experience you can remove nearly as much heat from an engine with oil as you can with water and a radiator.

Jim L and others---the way we benefit each other so much is not being afraid to speak up---your points were all valid---so were Rex's-

-I will use both in my pursuit---please anyone else who has thoughts or experience about this---PLEASE speak up  there will be LOTS of ways we can deal with this HEAT---some will be larger, some will be smaller---I have a packaging problem I need help with--lol

Thanks to ALL who post please  keep them coming!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on April 13, 2013, 10:19:49 AM
What about coating the rear diff with something like Cermachrome, and coating your shield with it too?

It has geat heat shielding properties. Russ Meeks should be able to give you solid advice on it.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 13, 2013, 10:21:47 AM
Rex,  I have read and reread your post--I know you are right shields alone will not take care of the diff;  but water and oil can.  I think  we will need to build a box using the housing  for the lower part of it, then we can run water through it. That should let us keep it to less than 190 degrees.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on April 13, 2013, 11:46:33 AM
Sparky,
You need to really pay attention to what happens when you stop the car, air flow stops and the turbo housing, which probably weighs 25 lbs, is still at 1000 deg F+ so it still has lots of heat that it wants to disapate.  You may want to start spraying water on it when you kick out the chute, just to get it to a lower temp. Also additional fans to blow air across the housing might be a thought.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on April 13, 2013, 02:27:41 PM
Are you getting the Turbine housing ceramic coated Sparky?
Doesn't Sid have a mate that does high end turbo blankets?

Silly thought for the day:
Silicon blanket over the ceramic coated turbine housing and one over the diff housing with the dimpled aluminium sandwiched in between, spraying the aluminium with water to suck the heat out?

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on April 13, 2013, 04:46:39 PM
How about a tension line to the chute main strap.  When the chute sets hard, the tension line pops open a pair of panels to scoop air through the turbo area on your runout.  Should not have much effect on stability.  I've always felt pretty solid once that chute goes thump....not much to steer after that.

Dont let the air blow through the chute tube, just in case you are on fire back there.  I mention that in the spirit of Grandpa's admonition...."whatever you worry about never happens anyway." :wink:

Regards, JimL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 13, 2013, 05:36:45 PM
I am thinking about the water on the turbos as a back up plan on the fire suppression system---maybe cut at the 5 and roll to the 7 or 8 for cooling purposes :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on April 13, 2013, 07:09:04 PM
Sparky, have you figured out how to put 10 pounds of parts in a 5. Pound box?  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stainless1 on April 13, 2013, 09:58:30 PM
Bill, the liner has a door that opens with the chute button to let hot air out of the engine bay.  Sort of like JimL was mentioning.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Grant Borman on April 13, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
I would bet that heat shield has to have some air flow or heat sinks as Jim L suggested.  I was planning on isolating the exh. tubing inside of a "Duct" from the outside skin to the turbo area and some reverse scoops on the bottom of the car for the heated air to rejoin it's brothers and sisters in the low pressure area under the car.  I have burned the plug wires off Ratical  I would just as soon not do it on the Weasel.

This sounds like a good start!

If it was my project I would coat the exhaust in a zirconium based coating inside and out then add shielding between the turbo and rear end. I would then separate the rear end as best as possible and vent cool air to that area.  When doing heat management on a race car its best to design the vehicle to cool itself without the use of aids like water misting.  Also design everything so that things will self cool at speed(indefinitely) as well as maybe provide a hatch to pop open when at rest.  A large cast iron exhaust housing at 1200 degrees is holding alot of energy.  When at rest things will end up absorbing this if not taken care of somehow. 

Passive cooling methods are the best!

What turbo are you running?  I have some inconel turbo blankets that might work in this application.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 13, 2013, 10:58:20 PM
T6 S400 BW


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Interested Observer on April 14, 2013, 07:49:05 PM
Sparky,
It is not clear that you appreciate the severity of the thermal problem posed by the arrangement of TWO turbos in close proximity to each other and the differential housing, all in a small and presumably an essentially unventilated compartment.  Not to mention waste gates and associated exhaust tubulars.  What Rex has described is true about the characteristics of their heat generation. You’ve got a real problem and little space in which to address it.  I don’t want to be overly negative, but this issue is something that needs to be competently resolved due to the possible consequences.  Which I am sure you are also interested in accomplishing.

Quilted aluminum (melting point about 1150F) foil that normally shields a catalytic converter at a few hundred degrees while in a free flowing air stream is not going to solve the problem, although it may have a place in a more elaborate overall system, protecting surrounding features.

Oil, that cools an engine, again at a couple hundred degrees, is going to be unsatisfactory at anything over those temperatures.  See Rex’s reference to “coal”.

Ceramic coating may be good for looks and preserving the surface of the turbine housing, but will have negligible effect on heat transfer rate due to the thinness of the coat.

Purpose-built turbo blankets may go a long way towards containing some of the heat, but with two together and essentially no cooling, they will likely produce a considerable heat-soak problem for the center sections, especially on shutdown, as well as for everything around them.

Mr. Borman is right with the passive cooling prescription--otherwise, what happens when the water spray/circulator quits working?  It will need a lot of air, both while at speed and at rest.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stainless1 on April 14, 2013, 08:29:57 PM
Luckily you only have to run them for a minute and a half... I would put them in blankets, put a .040 ish stainless shield between the turbos and anything you don't want to expose to immediate heat.  I don't think any coatings will help.  Set up a scoop and exit door that that raise when you trigger the chute to circulate air while you are coasting down.
Check for damage after you first test pass and every one after that until you feel you have isolated them enough for everything to survive a couple of full passes.  I like the oil and water solutions, I think they will keep the rear end from coking the bearings.  Set them up to run separately.
Never stop thinking... good talking to you the other day.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on April 15, 2013, 09:02:18 AM
Oil cooler for the rear in one of the ice water tanks? I have a few tranny coolers I have pulled out of scrapped radiators that would work.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 15, 2013, 09:09:49 AM
Guys,  I know I have a REAL problem, that will remain for a while after a run,

 I have a bunch of stainless steel that I plan on making heat shields from.  I am leaving the outer 1/2 of my log manifolds exposed to the slip stream, I plan on building a false floor of stainless to cover the exhaust running back to the turbos, the bottom of the car will have reverse scoops to create a low pressure area beneath the turbos to suck the heat down and out during the run. I am planning on the air intakes to  supply excess air to the front of the turbos there will be sort of a Turbo box shield of stainless.  I am planing on a small air scoop to push air through  from  the back of the manifolds to the bottom of the turbos.  I am in the process of evaluating just how many of these WONDERFUL IDEAS I can use  there will be several---there well may be a "chimney" above the rear of the turbos that air flows down underway and can draw air in from the bottom and out the top at rest.  

I think that oil will be a big part of the solution as well as water.

 Thanks to all who take the time to post.  I reread several of these sections weekly as I bingengineer this thing.  I am reminded every time I go to the shop what I have undertaken.  I look at all the parts for the single turbo sitting over there and I sometimes " muse  now just why are 2 better than 1 ---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 15, 2013, 09:15:48 AM
T man,  I have a heat exchanger in my dry sump tank already,  I was to help warm the eng oil-- but it would be easy enough to plumb it differently

Again guys,  this is SO helpful to have so many thinking about this---there already 4 or 5 changes or additions that will make into the final product, and even more before we get this thing sorted out.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on April 16, 2013, 06:55:05 PM
Again guys,  this is SO helpful to have so many thinking about this---there already 4 or 5 changes or additions that will make into the final product, and even more before we get this thing sorted out.

Hello Sparky,

I have been following your build (along with many others).  So for my first post I have a suggestion, if I might.  What about considering adding a NACA duct or two on the underside of the liner to direct cool air flow to the turbo/pumpkin area then out the back?  I realize that once all movement has ceased, the turbos will still be radiating heat but at least this should help while there is still some forward movement.

HTH

Dan


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 17, 2013, 05:50:24 AM
FGI  thanks for the post from a fellow ZONIE  :-D

The car will have a slight rake ( about 2-3%)  a NACA most likely would not draw especially with the 30" tires we will be running but you have the right idea---its just that at rest convection wants to reverse what I would like to do-- top down---at speed it would be real easy to do top down with the hot air out from behind the axle, exhausts and the bottom of the car just behind the rear axle---just does not help the chimney effect after the run.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on April 17, 2013, 06:22:39 PM
OK, how about wrapping the differential with http://www.thermotec.com/products/16850-kevlar-heat-barrier.html (http://www.thermotec.com/products/16850-kevlar-heat-barrier.html)?  And for keeping that area under control (and I use that term loosely  :-D) after the run, could you install a high volume radiator fan?  Just a thought.  :?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on April 17, 2013, 10:50:03 PM
Amazon has T6 turbo blankets for $84. That is probably where I will get mine from.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: redhotracing on April 19, 2013, 07:26:19 AM
I'm running a $90 eBay turbo blanket on a Bullseye S488,
works like a charm. It made a huge difference in temps.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 25, 2013, 09:12:30 AM
Well, well, well,--once again we are forced to face the fact that there are few free lunches in this life   :cry:
 it appears that my best way forward is to coat the snail, blanket the snail, various heat shields, and heat sinks---then try to work out scoops & vents that have some static chimney properties.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on April 25, 2013, 02:26:28 PM
I was looking at a pic of an A-10 and thinking.....I wonder if the exhaust from the turbos would help cancel a little of the pod aero drag.  One of those turbos could fit pretty neatly into something like a R12 tank, or old propane tank.  There are even some small tube shaped air compressor tanks with rounded ends.  The pylon could carry the boosted air, and the exhaust input, inside an air foil shape.

Might be the cheapest and safest fix?  I do love a puzzle!

JimL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on April 25, 2013, 07:53:30 PM
Spent the day over at Sparkys working with he and John. After today I have a much better understanding of why at times it takes months and even years building a LSR from scratch. After much time and effort trying to connect the exhaust logs to the turbo and having a piece of tubing bent ( and pretty much ruined ) Sparky decided to go a different route on the tubing and was headed to the parts store to buy more tubing. Ill head back over there next week to give him a hand where needed. Thanks Sparky and John for answering the questions I had in regards to what Im thinking of doing.
 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 27, 2013, 08:12:49 AM
progress at a snails pace---but progress---Frankie and John came Thurs---we slowly noodled some stuff- Marty came by that night with the inter cooler with its inbox plates on 3 sides of it.  Now to nail it down--- get the hardest turbo in its final configuration with its tubing, mounting brackets and connectors finalized. Hope for a good weekend.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 02, 2013, 09:45:06 AM
Re. Frankie's post -- I have changed to 2.5" all the way through using a 2.5" weld ell  for the 90 into the turbo exhaust inlet  one side is almost done and Frankie and I almost have the second one located---now to find the camera battery charger so that I can post. 

Thanks again to all who have sent private info and posted info about different products available---
I am going to try several of them for different parts and areas

Al E and his "girl"   Denton stopped by and they borrowed the Sachse Rod Shop canopy hinges to see if they would work on his new lakester   as he walked around  the Weasel he said if you do not watch this thing its going to "get complicated"

To compensate for not having "mirror image turbos I am going to offset the intercooler to the right side of the car wichh means the I will have to flip the intercooler and the water will now be on the left side of the car. 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 03, 2013, 11:04:45 PM
Well after many days of PONDERING---the car spoke to me---thanks to TB & RM and others who reminded me it is not nice to try to fool MOTHER NATURE---ie physics---create a pressure differential when under way and a static "chimney system that can draw at rest


l       l
l       \
l        \       
l         \
l          l                           /  /
l turbo  l                         /  /
lturbinel_______________/  /
l_____inlet______________/


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 05, 2013, 09:54:28 PM
The 2.5" weld ells picked up a good bit of clearance--- we will now be able to do stuff much more conventional manner.  Dave and I should be able to weld some in the morning.  Marty is coming by at 6:00 am for a glance over on the intercooler and his ideas on the outlet shape---he is the one who has to weld it after all.  I am about worn out on turbos and packaging---BUT it
is amazing to me what reveals it self if you just keep studying.  I feel much better than I did last weekend---might have something to do with being in the shop as leasT some every day.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 05, 2013, 11:01:27 PM
Spent the day over at Sparkys working with he and John. After today I have a much better understanding of why at times it takes months and even years building a LSR from scratch. After much time and effort trying to connect the exhaust logs to the turbo and having a piece of tubing bent ( and pretty much ruined ) Sparky decided to go a different route on the tubing and was headed to the parts store to buy more tubing. Ill head back over there next week to give him a hand where needed. Thanks Sparky and John for answering the questions I had in regards to what Im thinking of doing.
 

even those who are very close to the construction of one sometimes struggle to understand how it takes so long and how you can mangle so much stuff.......it takes a whole lot of staring and a whole lot of swarf.....then the crew come around , see the solution...and well, it's obvious that that is how it should have been all along.........but no-one has done that job before , so no-one would have done it that way until they'd unsuccessfully tried the OTHER obvious ways of doing it.

man, I've been there :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on May 05, 2013, 11:36:04 PM
I've found that when I'm going to weld a really complex weldment I'm best off to start with the areas that appear easier. By the time I get to the really complex areas I find that usually the complexity has dropped considerably and I'm able to handle the job just fine. Using a little psychology on oneself often solves the problem.

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 06, 2013, 09:10:06 AM
 no-one would have done it that way until they'd unsuccessfully tried the OTHER obvious ways of doing it.

DR G---reminds me of Thomas Edison search for a light bulb filament---someone asked him about his many failures--he said he was MUCH closer to finding what worked because he had eliminated so many that would not work--- :cheers:


 Using a little psychology on oneself often solves the problem.

Pete--- oh so very true---90 percent of the time the biggest problem lies between ONES own ears


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2013, 05:13:14 AM
Frankie was over last night for 2 + hours we got the left side of the exhaust tacked.  Wed. I will pull it and weld the heavy stuff and install the right side for final fitment of the parts back around the turbo.  THEN  brackets to hold the turbo in place and start working on the waste gates.

I also have been working on mounting the intercooler and designing the end box for the air from the intercooler to the 4" 90 ell that will go to the 5" air inlet of the carb. hat.  I cut the upper tube and installed a cross piece in the hoop getting ready to "notch" it for the tube running to the carb hat.

Sorry  no picts. still looking for the battery charger


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on May 08, 2013, 05:49:06 AM
Sorry  no picts. still looking for the battery charger.

E-Bay, for sure someone else has lost the camera! This is the sure way to find the charger you're missing.  :-D :-D :evil:

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2013, 11:59:38 PM
LOL  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 09, 2013, 07:33:13 PM
 :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on May 09, 2013, 08:10:58 PM
Plumbing, I hate plumbing :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on May 09, 2013, 08:20:05 PM
Looking good Sparky

Going to be a little tight back there :)

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on May 09, 2013, 09:29:44 PM
We all have a much better idea of what you mean by crowded. Keep up the good work Sparky and crew!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 09, 2013, 09:50:47 PM
We all have a much better idea of what you mean by crowded. Keep up the good work Sparky and crew!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

He wasn't kidding about being crowded  :-) Thanks PJ!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 09, 2013, 10:08:07 PM
I am getting pretty close to having the exhaust to the turbos and the turbos mounted ----then we can start the stuff that is going to full it up heat shields and ducting,  oil and water lines---it will be FULL-- :-o  Dave and I worked on finishing the log manifolds to day


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 13, 2013, 12:31:29 PM
Get any work done on the Weasel over the weekend? Im available Thursday if your gonna be out in the shop in the evening.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 13, 2013, 03:34:39 PM
got some done--redoing some I should be in the shop Th.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 14, 2013, 09:47:04 AM
had a pretty good day--I miged some non structural exhaust stuff yesterday and will do some more today---I tried to run some .023 wire in my miller 250---well it seems like I will have to buy some .023 wheels for it--my old Hobart Iron Man 210 you just flipped the wheel.  so my butt welds on thin wall 5"  turbo exthaust have way to much deposited metal when using  .o35


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 16, 2013, 11:49:03 AM
A Very good day---worked for several hours this morning-quit at 10:00--- VERY frustrated---  came back at 1:45 PM  started in on it again---Frankie came at 5:30--got serious about doing things that one enjoys having 2 pairs of hands---had to cut both sides again to rotate  just a little to take out some miss alignment---I am now 2 bolts away from having the turbos locked down.  Andy and I have started on the Mooootooor


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 17, 2013, 12:38:16 AM
Had visitors today   :-D    Bill a bike guy and his lovely from Cleveland spent 2 + hours in the shop with Mr. WW and myself learning about his bike and Mr. WW's  systems--


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 17, 2013, 06:35:27 AM
a note of discovery  :-o---of my lack of experience  :roll:

Andy and I were getting "acquainted" with the 509 shortblock that is built in my original eng.  It has some pits and other scars from it encounter with flying bits. it is a 9.8 shortdeck with 6.535 rods. With flattop blower pistons it has a lot of rock about + or - 12 thou, to go with the pistons coming out of the hole about 3 thou. To keep the heads and pistons from getting acquainted I ordered the .053 gaskets. This should leave me with about 8.6 Cr. 
I called Tim Cox of 636 red Camaro fame and he is going to help me thread and helicoil the heads for the 2 extra head bolts---I called Brodix and they told me to use 7/16 coarse thread cap screw torqued to 55'#


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on May 17, 2013, 09:25:30 PM
Linda and Bill,
what a welcome wagon ; for strangers off the 101 ; with two hours notice - and for a bike guy.
a workshop to be envious of.
a race car with unbelievable craftsmanship.
the stories of back when and now. plus the words of wisdom.

would like to be back on the salt running the bike and seeing WW at its' best.
Thank You, Sparky .

bill and Diane franey


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 18, 2013, 09:03:46 AM
Productive Diversion  :-D

To the untrained eye this contraption may look like a Dog Cart for mushers to give their dogs a "RUN"---but what this really, really is--it's WW's canopy, a testimony to the radio station that we all listen to WIFM--what's in it for me-- My buddy Dave needed a knock down Dog cart bingeneered and he knows that I have a scrap pile that holds LOTS & LOTS of treasures.

 I needed a tig welder who is willing to put WW's hat back together.  Wallah we will start attacking the canopy next week.

Bill and Dianne and any other LSR JUNKIES else wishing to drop by, when you are in the Phoenix area---come on, come on, the welcome mat is out! Thanks for the kind words, by the way my shop is my "PRICE" that my wife had to pay to get me to move out of TEXAS.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 20, 2013, 10:51:48 PM
Great Day---finished the DOG cart---Dave is working on getting acquainted with the Canopy metal---we will have a great day Wed.---Frankie is coming over Tue night---now if I can just get Marty freed up and back on the inter cooler-- we will really start to goooo!!!!

If John can get free-- he and I will start on the Instrument panel 

Brown Santa came today with the thick gaskets and the Turbo diper---I tried it out so I will order the second one.  Andy and I can figure out the Push Rod lengths!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on May 20, 2013, 11:09:20 PM
Give Frankie your camera so we can get some decent new shots!!!!!!!!! :-D :lol:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 20, 2013, 11:50:24 PM
T, if I can figure out my password to Photobucket, ill try to post some pics Wednesday from my phone


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 21, 2013, 06:49:21 AM
T-Man---I have cut out some small stuff----final welded some tacks- and spent hours & Hours of Noodle time---figuring on water hose routing, ect ect---in other words--- where to mount, run and PUT STUFF ---not much to show---  I think we will soon have lots to take picts of 

these hair dryers took SCADS of time--- and I still have lots to do with them but we are MUCH MUCH closer


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on May 21, 2013, 07:06:11 AM
Sparky, this build has come a looong way! :cheers:

What kind of HP do you anticipate?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 21, 2013, 10:05:12 AM
Hoping to be able to do around 1200 + or - 100


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on May 21, 2013, 10:15:50 AM
Hoping to be able to do around 1200 + or - 100

 :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 21, 2013, 11:08:16 PM
T-Man  :-D

Marty came by tonight --picked up the intercooler to weld the blow off nubs and fab the top plate of the outlet plenum.  As he was leaving Frankie drove up and we got the waste gates ruffed in  I will final weld them in the AM and start drilling holes for the egts---I didnt take a pict of the turbo diaper but it worked fine will order the second one.  Dave comes in the AM and we will start on the canopy.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on May 22, 2013, 10:01:20 AM
Loks like a snake pit.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on May 22, 2013, 10:44:52 AM
I still hate plumbing :x better you than me. my time will come though.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 22, 2013, 11:00:55 AM
LOL   ohhh for the joys and simplicity of an Inliner--- :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on May 22, 2013, 11:28:30 AM
LOL   ohhh for the joys and simplicity of an Inliner--- :-D

I'll get back to you on that one! :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 22, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on May 22, 2013, 09:12:59 PM
That snake pit may surprise you.

it is very well packaged from what I saw of it.

bf


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 22, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
this is the snake eggs, the pit full of vipers will be when I start running the the data logging wires, water and oil lines


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on May 22, 2013, 09:19:21 PM
Sparky, that's just a learning curve on how to build a streamliner, you cram 10 # in a 5#  sack. Then add driver thats double jointed. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: PorkPie on May 23, 2013, 04:38:33 AM
By some reason I got the feeling, that, longer Sparky works on the lakester.....so more the lakester shrinks.... :-D :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 23, 2013, 08:00:13 AM
PP  spot on---  I feel that way some times---especially when I have to cut something out and move it so I can put something else in there :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on May 23, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
Nice work!

When I saw the car last year, it looked like there would be lots of room.

You used it all! :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 23, 2013, 11:09:35 AM
Buddy your right about that. Its changed quite a bit since the first time I saw it last September. Im sure itll change more before it sees the salt later this year. Im just happy Sparky has allowed me to be a small part of things


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 23, 2013, 06:05:15 PM
Dave,  Started welding up the seams we chopped into what is now going to CANOPY with what we left him to work with---he is doing a great job getting the thing where we can attach "IT" to the canopy frame. I worked on finish welding the turbo waste gates to exhaust manifolds.  Next will be to tap them for the EGTs.  I called Tim Cox today---hopefully will get to see him Friday pm to tap and thread the heads.  Al E, Bill S and Denton came by for a short visit---I dropped by his place yesterday---he was building a intake manifold for his 1/2 v-8 ---he gives me grief for my complicated car---he runs FUEL--he believes life starts at about 90%


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 24, 2013, 11:24:11 PM
We started on rescuing the Canopy piece we butchered out--I beat and banged this morning ---and in 15 minutes I was bleeding in more places than I had in the last 90 days---lol  Dave and I tried to figure out why the spool gun wasn't working----hmmm  I am looking for schematics ---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 25, 2013, 07:51:42 PM
A special thanks to Tim Cox the C of BC racing---the red Camaro  who deliver the B of BC racing a red hat at 250+ this past season

He came up today a brought some of his drills and tools to tap the heads for the "missing" two head bolts that the chev engs. Left out but but back in their BOW TIE race block.  Andy and I were spell bound as he, so carefully, check and rechecked  the alignment and angles before drilling, chamfering, taping, the installing the heilcoils.

Thanks Tim for the great job and the great lessons..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 25, 2013, 07:52:58 PM
The top pict is where we started -- Brodix gives  a great point to start from we have stock Brodix  2 Xtras

The bottom is where we finished see the upside down 7/16 bolt

Thanks again Tim--- for the great machining lessons and the the 4 extra bolts for our 509--


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on May 26, 2013, 01:25:00 AM
So- the extra bolts go up into the heads? Are torque wrench adaptors available for that layout?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2013, 08:29:57 AM
Jack, I am sure there are---on one of the Boards that Tim found some one mentioned the wrench clearance issues---I think that I will use my old Craftsman torque wrench with a ---I think they are called crows feet ---open end wrench with a socket drive and work out the math to compensate for the added length of the lever---Brodix wants a hard washer and 55'#


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on May 26, 2013, 08:46:46 AM
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 26, 2013, 12:42:09 PM
The hemis I have been around in the alcohol cars have a similar issue with some of the studs and that's exactly what the do is use a crows foot on their torque wrenchs.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on May 26, 2013, 03:26:20 PM
It may be worthwhile putting a S bend in an extension and even tack it to to your crows foot or weld it to a ringspanner  with the tension wrench axis on the bolt axis.

No loosing the crows foot in the valley, getting the maths wrong, crowsfoot opening up or binding on the block etc.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on May 26, 2013, 11:57:44 PM
Good thinking, Jon.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on May 27, 2013, 12:29:57 AM
I think this makes 74,000 views to your site.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 28, 2013, 09:56:28 AM
Paper Dolls---we are back to paper dolls, on the eng side of the intercooler--Marty did not like the old design from a construction stand point. I came up with a new design and I made it out of wood and a piece of 5" irrigation pipe this morning--I will show it to him tonight--and WE can get going on this thing.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 04, 2013, 10:22:27 PM
I have been --GTT --gone to Texas for a WEEK-- got my grand daughter married off ---we are back in Phoenix will be back on the car HARD ---talked to Summ --he and Ruth should be leaving for Tulsa Thursday---he is ordering parts just like I am having to order lots also


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2013, 07:41:39 AM
holes for 2 Godspeed 50 mm bovs--these two near the turbo inlets and another closer to the hat inlet, after the intercooler.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on June 05, 2013, 08:06:09 PM
I wont steal all of Sparkys thunder but we got some stuff accomplished today with templates and I managed not to cut off any of my fingers despite not using a saber or jigsaw in over 10 years lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2013, 11:54:46 PM
What a wild day---I had it all worked out in my noodle---then Marty calls at 6:10 am and says today would be a good day to get going on the intercooler--he wants patterns--so he comes by and drops off a 24" old style paper cutter

so I get after it and cut a bunch of cardboard patterns and then transfer them to 3/8" plywood.  Frankie shows up and he gets to cutting them out while I make some new STUFF. 
Dave shows up at 11:00 and we are all busy for about an hour---then we have patterns for Marty


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 05, 2013, 11:57:17 PM
 :-o
Marty shows up with the stuff cut out around 6:00 and we have 2 great hours fitting and tacking.

I have my day full tomorrow --with phone parts chasing-- making and fitting the rest of the parts that are missing and getting the
3rd BOV fitted under the tube going to the carb hat. 

Thanks for a great day guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 06, 2013, 10:21:04 AM
We will be putting them to a pressure test


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on June 06, 2013, 11:25:21 AM
3rd BOV for extra insurance? And am I seeing an ice chute?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 06, 2013, 11:41:00 AM
Tm  what you see is the 5" inlet going to the carb hat

This is one Rube Goldberg looking intercooler the 3 BOV will be mounted below that 5" piece of irrigation pipe that is the intercooler outlet pipe.  I just hope it works 1/2 as good as it is hookey looking.

I have tried to keep the surface areas of the inlets and outlets balanced.  The  area of the 2 turbo outlets is 19.25 sq. in.; the 5" pipe is 19.6. The inlet out of the intercooler into the pipe is 30+ sq. in.  I HOPE that compensates SOME for a really ugly transision.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 06, 2013, 01:57:12 PM
Been on the phone off and on all morning trying to get my spool gun compatible---seems like I was sold a miss match for my welder---trying to get it sorted out---we need it bad to get the body/canopy area done!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 06, 2013, 07:37:35 PM
 :-o
Marty droped by for about 4 tacks worth and
now we will build the mounts for this thing and align everything an finish making the front panels and button it up---after the mounts are done I will pressure test the water passages and start plumbing.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2013, 02:22:41 PM
 :-o deception  you think you are looking at an intercooler with a small leak ---you may be right---but what you really see is an understanding wife--an a guy kicking himself for not doing this earlier!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on June 08, 2013, 04:40:40 PM
Haha! Well, it's better to have an intercooler in the sink, than engine parts strewn all over the kitchen table!

The build is looking great!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
Sushhhh ---Buddy that is next week--she is out of town and I am batching!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2013, 08:50:57 PM
By request


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2013, 09:17:59 PM
Andy and I had a great day in the shop----mostly noodle time-- we have now found a place to mount the oil pressure accumulator to protect the turbo's v journal bearings. We also spent a good bit of time on how to mount the instrument panel, the brake & gas pedals.

The largest success is most likely the THERMAL shield plan---it will take 20 times longer to build it than the 2 hrs it took us to NOODLE---but I think we are on the right track.  Part of this time spent in the area was the plenum area and the air intake system.  I have really been thinking about how to protect the turbos from salt and other debris ---we think that we now know how to put two flat type air cleaners---one flat just below the small scoops intake and one at a 45 deg. angle in front of the two tubes that run down toward the turbos.

my head hurts--

we got the oil filter location figured out but we still-- need a place to mount the MSD and the ECU, that will mostly be used for turbo control and data logging this year.



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Buickguy3 on June 09, 2013, 11:17:05 AM
  Sparky, We thought we had the air filter thing figured out until we called K&N and they gave us the area of the filter to properly flow enough air. Way more than a guy thinks.
   Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 09, 2013, 11:40:19 AM
Thanks BG3 for the heads up!

I was going to try to put the largest tray filter they make--I will give the guys up the street a visit and see what they think


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 10, 2013, 12:34:56 PM
Busy this morning!  Ordered the second turbo diaper from the guys aat Thermal Solutions in Cincy Ohio and stopped by the AirAid guys down the street---what these guys have in common is Made in the USA.   AirAid has this huge Mama Jammer (airaid.com) that will be perfect for the turbos  a huge cone that has a 6" id--- and is 12" high by 9" at the base---now if I can build an air box big enough to mount 2 of those things  we will have the filtration issue done with.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 11, 2013, 11:32:15 PM
Fankie came over tonight and started bracket racing.  He made the bracket for the oil filter---we can now mount it where Andy and I figured out the other day.  I ordered new rocker studs and Maanley 7/16th push rods. 8.500s and 9.350  bye bye lash caps and rockers hitting the retainers!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Buickguy3 on June 12, 2013, 10:41:07 AM
   Here's what we ended up with on the Salt Cat lakester.
 Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on June 12, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
THat looks pretty sweet Doug.

As always I enjoyed getting the opportunity to work on the WW and make something for it. While Im not going to quit my day job to become a fabricator anytime soon  :-), Im enjoying doing this stuff and learning new things along the way. Thanks again Sparky.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Ron Gibson on June 12, 2013, 12:58:38 PM
Sparky
 You might check clearance on them. When I went to 7/16 pushrods, I had to increase the clearance in the holes for the intakes to eliminate interference. Might not be a problem with your heads.

Ron


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 12, 2013, 03:09:51 PM
Ron,  thanks for the reminder--- we will continue to try to feel our way through  this thing!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 13, 2013, 09:11:02 PM
geez  I think I am going backward---I cut out several things yesterday and today  but I tacked in several---so that I can get the water manifolds in the car  I am going to take water up and back i.25 round tubing  I am running out of---space let alone room :cry:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2013, 11:22:36 AM
Sometimes you just need to get mad---usually at ones self ---I have owned a tig for 2 years now--I had tried it with out much success --I just kept plugging along with my mig..Peter Jack suggested that I try lighting off the torch as low as I could for a few seconds---turns out that this solves my problem by giving my eyes time to adjust ---then I can see the puddle as it forms and it is not getting away from me near as often as before---I doubt I will ever be a "stacker" all the time but my "stuff" will get there.

He suggested the low & slow light off for controlling another problem---go figure!!  Thanks again PJ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 16, 2013, 06:50:07 PM
Marty came by for about 4 hours today---we now have the intercooler  ready for the heavy welder at his workplace---huge milestone---now the real plumbing will begin!! :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on June 16, 2013, 08:32:04 PM
Glad to hear that you're in the welding game now Sparky. The trick is to gain the confidence to get started, get a little help along the way and self criticize every weld you make. As long as your own criticism is constructive and you work to make each weld better than the last, time and practice will make you a very competent weldor.

Congratulations on taking the first steps.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

P.S. Don't let everyone know, but it's probably easier to weld aluminum than it is to weld steel although it's probably a little more difficult to get serious penetration.  :-D :-D :-D

PJ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 16, 2013, 10:21:46 PM
 :-o

now for the funny of the day---as I was cutting out one more thing a fire bottle---I will move it to in front of the frt axle---Marty said since we have a spare body section---are you sure we don't just need to cut this thing and put in 4 more feet---Tom B says I am in liner training, but I need to shorten it by 3' first---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 19, 2013, 12:45:08 AM
my respect for all who came before me with turbo cars is growing by leaps and bounds ---daily---I think I now know where most everything will go now--

Frankie and I cleaned up the shop and spent time noodling the air box and of all things---the coil--  who in the world would thing you would spend so much time trying to find a place to mount a coil :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on June 19, 2013, 10:11:09 AM
Weldingtipsandtricks.com is a great place to learn. Many YouTube videos.
It really helped me as though I used to weld for a living, it has been over 20 years and had forgotten most everything.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on June 19, 2013, 10:20:05 AM
Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/cwB4PESPAlI

This is one of the best advise I have found. This guy is a great teacher.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on June 19, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
I got to sit in the WW with a helmet on for quite some time while Sparky and I thought about control placements. I almost made race car noises while he was out of the room for a few minutes,  almost lol. I could get used to being in there.  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stan Back on June 19, 2013, 05:18:56 PM
I sat in it at El Mirage.  It was comfortable -- as long as it wasn't moving.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 19, 2013, 08:35:43 PM
I got to sit in the WW with a helmet on for quite some time while Sparky and I thought about control placements. I almost made race car noises while he was out of the room for a few minutes,  almost lol. I could get used to being in there.  :-D

OK.

I'm callin you a liar.

If you didn't make them out loud I bet you were making them under your breath.If you didn't do that there's something wrong with you........ :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on June 19, 2013, 09:09:59 PM
You would be correct Dr G I did them in my head while trying to imagine being strapped in, looking down the salt  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 19, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
I call it dirt dancing---I used to fly gliders from a small airport that had a drop zone.  The jumpers would practice their "relative" moves on the ground before they took off.  I spend several hours simulating runs before I get on the track---yes "mental motor" is how you know you made a successful shift :-D lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: PorkPie on June 20, 2013, 04:40:08 AM
You would be correct Dr G I did them in my head while trying to imagine being strapped in, looking down the salt  :-D

latest when it became reality....you be strapped in....looking down the salt.....hear the real noise of the engine.....

.............you start to think.........WHAT THE HECK I'M DOING HERE............... :-D :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: GH on June 20, 2013, 07:17:29 AM
Sparky, I am reading a book by Dan Hampton about the Wild Weasels in the USAF, very interesting.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 20, 2013, 08:24:21 AM
GH--- they were an interesting part of 'nam-- their paint jobs will inspire my Wild Weasel.  My "belly tank" could have been there--it is my understanding it is a Ferry Tank that was used in 'nam as a time over target extender..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on June 20, 2013, 08:57:27 AM
Pork Pie, someday I hope to get that chance as you did.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on June 20, 2013, 11:03:35 AM
You would be correct Dr G I did them in my head while trying to imagine being strapped in, looking down the salt  :-D

latest when it became reality....you be strapped in....looking down the salt.....hear the real noise of the engine.....

.............you start to think.........WHAT THE HECK I'M DOING HERE............... :-D :cheers:
;

I used to think that when I was rappelling down into a deep cave. That was a while ago, though!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ ex- NSS 7676


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 20, 2013, 09:29:47 PM
Wow---what a last few posts---lol-- bench race'n,  lyin, , sky diving, soaring, lyin , cavei'n. jet jockeys---well how about some pure bracket racing  another pretty good day doing mundane STUFF,,got an email notice my intake push rods have been shipped  we will be building the 509 SOON!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on June 20, 2013, 10:56:05 PM
You would be correct Dr G I did them in my head while trying to imagine being strapped in, looking down the salt  :-D

latest when it became reality....you be strapped in....looking down the salt.....hear the real noise of the engine.....

.............you start to think.........WHAT THE HECK I'M DOING HERE............... :-D :cheers:
;

I used to think that when I was rappelling down into a deep cave. That was a while ago, though!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ ex- NSS 7676


You get that same thought 200 feet up on a frozen waterfall!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 20, 2013, 11:56:54 PM
WHISKEY TALK!!!!!!!!!

Needed WHISKEY!!!!!  "More, MORE Whiskey"  ---Tom T Hall

 WOW  What a journey--1st car 53 Dodge 6 with an OD!!! at 16 in 1958--it was 5 years old

At 71 ----    SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION "Wild WEASEL" ---ONLY a 275  MPH POTENTIAL  more speed difference!!

WHO would have thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on June 21, 2013, 12:41:44 AM
First car was only two years old? :-o In contrast to my 18-year-old first car... :-(
I'll bet, though, that you wished it had the Red Ram 241 c.i. hemi, like the '53 I had later on!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: PorkPie on June 21, 2013, 05:57:03 AM
Pork Pie, someday I hope to get that chance as you did.

When you got enough patience you will get your chance.....speaking from own experience.....

.....and when you get the chance...use it...and make the best out of it....

I wish you the best to turn your dream into reality......



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: PorkPie on June 21, 2013, 06:01:14 AM
You would be correct Dr G I did them in my head while trying to imagine being strapped in, looking down the salt  :-D

latest when it became reality....you be strapped in....looking down the salt.....hear the real noise of the engine.....

.............you start to think.........WHAT THE HECK I'M DOING HERE............... :-D :cheers:
;

I used to think that when I was rappelling down into a deep cave. That was a while ago, though!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ ex- NSS 7676

Neil,

I was a science potholer for a long time...had to step back in 1995......and some situations had me let think a lot of other things...... :roll: :|


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 22, 2013, 11:21:12 PM
Jack  between beer and "tired"   I didn't work through the math---I started driving at 14 in Texas on a farm hardship------after wrecking two family cars for driving too fast my dad decided that I need to have my own and it need to be LOW powered---lol  bought if from the perverbial little ole lady school teacher!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 22, 2013, 11:39:56 PM
canopy ---I hope this doesn't turn into as big a project as the turbos  I am going to use the "Dash" as a major part of stiffening up the canopy so I must cut the holes for the guages be for I weld it in---so have to buy them---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 23, 2013, 05:56:40 PM
some have their laser this and their laser that---  well I have  HF laser level aligned sheet metal---turn out the lights and the HF level turned on its side and spend a few minutes tweaking it to make sure its plumb---wallah----very very helpful

If you look close you can see the 3 plumb lines that I also used to measure off of!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 23, 2013, 06:02:11 PM
After I got it centered--  :-P -then more Paper Dolls  slowly---ever so slowly this thing is telling me what it wants--we now will need to do a bunch of alum fab. and tacking on the top and then start down getting the windows in then continue  to inside to nail down the latches and hinges..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Elmo Rodge on June 23, 2013, 06:03:48 PM
Bill, I used lasers a lot in my build.  Next  best thing to a flat floor. You can float that floor anywhere and measure from there. :cheers: Wayno


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 23, 2013, 09:56:58 PM
Wayne O you are so right this thing helped, peace of mind that it is CENTERED---


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 25, 2013, 10:49:59 PM
A bit of recycle today! Years ago I had to replace the piece of Lexan on the old RATICAL :cheers:--- well I was able to salvage a 25" x 5" piece for the front  of the new "pilot house" and 2 5" x 36" for the two sides---it will look like it is 1 piece  the butt joint is behind the verticals!!  My Scottish ancestors would be proud---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 30, 2013, 12:00:59 AM
minute --Subaru ---- minute Subaru


sorry SSS I didn't know how to spell subaru


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on June 30, 2013, 01:28:11 PM
Sparky, maybe I missed it-what ignition system are you running?

Lakester looks great-you've come a LOOOOONG ways since El Mirage last year! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on June 30, 2013, 07:25:36 PM
Buddy ---sometimes I  feel like I am just closer to going crazy  ---waiting on Brown Santa for parts and Marty for intercooler---I cant wait any longer---I really need to mount and plump the intercooler to stay out of trouble---I started to run water lines---on RATICAL I was able to run them in the bottom of the car ---on the WW I am having to put them upstairs.

This is 1.25' tubing with .062 wall  with 1" 90s and 45s-- which give me  1.120 id  I used a die grinder to cut the threads out of the pipe fittings we will braze them.  I was tempted to make much longer runs of straight tubing but figured that down the road it might be easier to take them out than cut them out---lol

Buddy
MSD 7  their 2 amp coil for 7 & 8 boxes--I don't know what color it is ---it is one color on the internet and another in the cat.  the part # is 8261


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 05, 2013, 12:28:31 AM
more recycle today--cut up a stainless steel base to a commercial dishwasher---wahlah---beginnings of the shielding for the exhaust pipies running in the bottow of the car two more layers to gS

come on Brown Santa---Please deliver me the fire bottles, intake push rods and  please please have Marty bring the intercooler there is LOTS of stuff I could do if we had parts delivery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 08, 2013, 11:48:44 PM
made lots of phone calls---where is my stuff---

push rods should be here Tue.

Fire fox ---8.3/4 # fire bottle---back ordered

MSD coil---not here yet -- no idea when

Great new--Marty brought the ALMOST completed inter cooler over this morning--I chased parts and got serious about plumbing it all so that I can mount it

Air Aid filters are suppose to have the rest of the pieces Tue am---will be ordering some body mounting weld on Dutz tabs  when I go to pick up the Manley 7/16th push rods and MSD coil, I will pick up the electric oil pressure and manual boost gauges !

The serious crunch is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 09, 2013, 11:01:34 PM
Ohh the indescribable and unattainable joys of bracket racing :x


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 10, 2013, 07:27:43 PM
look maw no straps!!!


now to  will get busy on mounting the hoses and the heat shields.    I have a lot of the patterns already made---I just need to hard mount the exhaust---ie finish it just like it will be run and work out.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 11, 2013, 08:20:33 AM
Looking good! See you on the salt! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 13, 2013, 09:07:55 AM
More recycle yesterday---a filter trap out of one of the commercial dish washers has been reassigned duty--- it is now an ice strainer to keep bergy bits  from entering the pumps.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on July 13, 2013, 09:09:31 PM
I would not worry too much about that strainer. It may restrict flow. I have never known anybody to have a problem with ice going through the pump. Most of our gang use the Rule submersible pumps and they just seem to pass the smaller chunks through. The nice thing is that ice always floats. As long as you are sucking from bottom of tank, you should be getting cold water and not much ice.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on July 13, 2013, 10:29:04 PM
I agree. We ran a 15 gallon intercooler tank in our roadster.  I had a WRC Celica intercooler pump and we put in 40 lbs of crushed ice per run.  Even THAT pump couldnt pull the ice down in that big tank.

Fun sidenote: our intercooler was horizontal on top of our slant 4 engine.  It had a nice flat top surface, which was outside of our hood.  While we were precooling before starting the engine and leaving the start line, the starter sometimes set his ice tea on the intercooler.  He'd tell folks he was cooling his drink while he checked the belts and all. :-)

Regards, JimL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 13, 2013, 11:38:13 PM
I will give it a flow test tomorrow  I :-o  will see how fast it sinks


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2013, 07:36:31 AM
Rob don't those rule pumps have built in strainers? 
1 inside the "cooler" the 1" inlets to the two pumps
2 the "re-purposed" piece
3 inside --in place


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 14, 2013, 08:04:29 AM
Sparky, it looks real good!

Even though ice floats, we also added mesh screen, similar to yours-no sense taking a chance!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2013, 09:00:51 AM
Buddy---I am with you on this. These two pumps should be able to cycle this 22 gallon tank in less than a minute --I think  :-P 

There should be a fairly strong down current created in there.   We plan to warm the eng. with only the radiator water.  Then pump the front mounted radiator in a box full of water; then top offl the rear tank with mostly ice---we will depend on the liquid from the front box and the intercooler to cycle and of course the liquid volume will go up as the ice melts.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 14, 2013, 09:07:42 AM
I would not worry too much about that strainer. It may restrict flow. I have never known anybody to have a problem with ice going through the pump. Most of our gang use the Rule submersible pumps and they just seem to pass the smaller chunks through. The nice thing is that ice always floats. As long as you are sucking from bottom of tank, you should be getting cold water and not much ice.

Good info, I'm just starting on the ice water tank for Hooley's car.  I have two of the Rule 1100 pumps that I'll be putting in the tank for the two intercoolers.  Which pumps did you use?

I finished the radiator in a box (based on Sparky's design mostly) yesterday and hooked one of the 1100 pumps to it and it pushed 15 gallons a minute through the box.  It is rated at about 18 gallons a minute with no head.  Hooley has a Meziere pump that we will use for the rad-in-a-box when it is in the car,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 14, 2013, 09:32:48 AM
Rob don't those rule pumps have built in strainers?  ...

They do...

(http://www.boatmania.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/u/rule-1100-manual-bilge-pump_3040027C_3.jpg)

... but I think I'll also try and protect them some also with some screening. 

Sparky the tank looks good  :-),

Sum



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on July 14, 2013, 09:55:25 AM
It also looks great to see a post done by S U M N E R.

One of the kids came back to the family.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 14, 2013, 11:15:08 AM
It also looks great to see a post done by S U M N E R.

One of the kids came back to the family.

FREUD

That is what happens when you forget to lock the door  :-).  Hope to see you soon,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dynoroom on July 14, 2013, 12:17:42 PM
We use a 15 gallon tank, half to 3/4 full depending on vinue. We run a screen as we don't use a plastic submersible pump prefering to use a Jabsco remote pump with bronze impeller and housing.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2013, 03:02:59 PM
Joey came over for 3 hours hours we are getting closer on the canopy!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 14, 2013, 03:04:55 PM
OH YEA! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on July 14, 2013, 03:16:23 PM
Bill;

I think the abrupt angle of the forward edge of your canopy is going to create some serious drag. Why not lean it back at a shallow angle?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on July 14, 2013, 03:59:13 PM
Looks good Sparky.
It's not only the ice that is a worry, I'm worried about torn bits of bag and other dross that the pump can deal with ending up plugged in the cooler core.

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2013, 04:06:52 PM
Neal that is by choice---I am trying to decrease the expected lift at the transition ---by putting more air down the sides and less of it over the hump!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: JimL on July 14, 2013, 06:34:25 PM
I really like that look.  It reminds me of some cool old airplanes.

And some of them were real fast!

There were a couple good reasons for it, and it has been used on other applications where glare makes steering, conning, piloting, etc difficult.

Regards, JimL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on July 14, 2013, 08:27:37 PM
I really like that look.  It reminds me of some cool old airplanes.

And some of them were real fast!

There were a couple good reasons for it, and it has been used on other applications where glare makes steering, conning, piloting, etc difficult.

Regards, JimL

JimL;

Going by a Bf109 canopy, I'd guess it was made that way because it was easier to make and the bullet-proof glass came in flat panels. Even so, the front glass was slanted back.

I still think it would be better to reduce the canopy drag and overcome any lift that may be generated by an aerodynamic canopy elsewhere.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 14, 2013, 09:25:34 PM
....I still think it would be better to reduce the canopy drag and overcome any lift that may be generated by an aerodynamic canopy elsewhere.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

There were a couple reasons for the canopy in that shape.  One is that the glass is bent in one plane and not a compound curve thus something that could be done fairly easily in a home shop.  This also results in better vision as was mentioned above.

I suggested it to Sparky for the reasons above and also that it is a nice teardrop shape and should enter the air pretty well and as Sparky mentioned send some of the air hitting it down the sides of the car.  Time will tell how it works and if it doesn't then Sparky will have another project for next winter  :-).  In relation to the rest of the frontal area it is a fairly small portion of it.  I guess it is just another example of the compromises that have to be made at times  :-),

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on July 14, 2013, 09:52:01 PM
Sum;

As they say, "The proof is in the pudding." Some small wool tufts taped on the body will reveal all.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2013, 11:08:47 PM
I have yellow and white yarn standing by  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2013, 11:33:44 PM
Got in a few good hours in the shop today---Marty dropped by for a few minutes of welding Alum.---it helps so much to have him drop by for a few minutes---this is what I have been trying to set up for a long time--the cooler tank has now been completed and will be leak tested tomorrow---I will vacumn test the intercooler soon!!!!!!  Andy may have few hours Wed. Pm---we plan to get serious about the Mootor :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 16, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
a day of re-purposing--- dish washer sides to heat shields--Frankie came over tonight and we plasma cut ---PARTS--- :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 17, 2013, 10:29:21 AM
progress:
the crazy looking thing sticking out over the front axle is where the drivers fire bottle will go and the master cyl. will be mount up front also.

on the jack stands it is about 4.75" higher than it will be on the Goodyear 21" and the MT 26" on the rear.

The blue panel is some left over Ratical skin---Today I hope to make it with some clean alum.---I am just going to pop rivet this generation of the canopy---for lack of time-- will make version II this winter with all new stuff with a lower smaller window.  I am some what limited with what I can do as my brake only has a 24-25" throat.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on July 17, 2013, 12:11:54 PM
Yep we plasma cut parts. One of numerous heatshields for the car. Thanks Sparky for the opportunity to help on the car. Definitely a joy for me.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 17, 2013, 01:10:43 PM
Sparky, that canopy looks big in the pics. I'm glad you took a pic next to it, because that really gives it perspective!

Looking good! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on July 17, 2013, 01:26:50 PM
Buddy, when your in the car with the canopy down its not that big. Definitely not one for the claustrophobic  :-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 17, 2013, 10:33:37 PM
Buddy, the nose is 18" diam. at the frt. axle  and 30" behind me---when we get all this stuff in it --it will be FULL---as Frankie says it will not be for the claustrophobic !!!!!!!!!!!  that thing is 5.5 inches tall---we may lower it 2" this winter.  we just want to get it on the salt and get it long course qualified at least this year!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 18, 2013, 07:30:06 AM
Ron G---thanks for the heads up on the push rods--- 2 of them were so bad they would not go in the rocker cups correctly---EVERY cyl. had an area that I was not comfortable with---so "off with his heads" and get out the die grinder.

I had a first  I had purchased 3 long "head porting"  I had used the cyl. and the tapered ones--I had never used the Bull Nose rounded ball-  I fear this thing  properly.  I never turn it on with out knowing I have a good grip on it; it set up a hormonic whipping  standing wave action so violent  it almost came out of my upper hand by the switch, I was able to hold on but my finger was no longer on the switch.  Needles to say I changed to the tapered on that I have hours with on the exhaust manifolds.  , Andy , John and his friend John Powers all witnessed the almost accident.

 Scared me good  there is a reason I always unplug the power tools to work on them.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 18, 2013, 10:16:26 AM
Sparky, that canopy looks big in the pics. I'm glad you took a pic next to it, because that really gives it perspective!

Looking good! :cheers:

(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=41591;image)

So this raises the question is the canopy too small or the Texan too big or are they both about right  :-P,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 18, 2013, 10:31:59 AM
Sparky, that canopy looks big in the pics. I'm glad you took a pic next to it, because that really gives it perspective!

Looking good! :cheers:

(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=41591;image)

So this raises the question is the canopy too small or the Texan too big or are they both about right  :-P,

Sum

 :cheers: :-D :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on July 18, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
Sum, if the Texan does prove to be too big, he does have smaller Arizonans as options  :wink:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Ron Gibson on July 18, 2013, 11:08:07 AM
Sparky
I gave mine what I thought was enough clearance before putting the heads on. Coated the push rods with magic marker to be able to check. Still have a little interference so "off with their heads" to give it some more. Hate that with Cometic's at $105 each but how fast do I want to go? Red hat fast.

Ron


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 18, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
Texaz is about 1 dozen 30 packs too big in the belly  :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 19, 2013, 09:25:58 AM
Ron G.  I am living what you just addressed--I can not believe how much I am having to remove on the intake  to get it to where it just touches guide on numbers #1 and 5 on the odd side---have not started on the even side---I am sure that I am just being careful.  I will get this done today.  I am beat from taking those heads on and off so much, and taking the valves out to get the chips from the heads bolts.

STILL no fire bottle!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 20, 2013, 09:03:30 PM
Still no fire bottle  :-o   

Finally have the heads where the 7/16" push rods will clear and the combustion chambers are deburred and all sharp edges have been sanded off. 

I still can not believe how much we had to take of of several.

The heads should go on Sunday night.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Elmo Rodge on July 20, 2013, 10:16:03 PM
Bill, just keep rippin' away at it. I had the same problem last year with bottles. I ended up getting them at Speedweek. Not what I was hoping for but we made it work.  :wink: Wayno


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 21, 2013, 12:44:37 AM
While I was in the shower my wife said my phone rang----It was Marty--he had found a 24v solenoid and wanted to know if I was up to go to the shop he thought he had a fix figured out for the spool gun---just came in the house---he got it ----YEAH----now we can get going on tacking & spot welding the body panels.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 21, 2013, 11:07:49 PM
Snake Bit

Today was shaping up to be a great day---Marty got the Spool Gun going last night, and Andy and I were going to get both heads on to night.  I was busy most of the day with little stuff and I thought that I was done with the die grinder---Andy didn't like the amount of clearance  on 2 of the intake push rods---so we rotated it through several times so that I could get a good idea where to grind---

Boom---through the port wall in to the lifter galley on number 4---I was starting to suspect that we were dealing with a "weird" casting to from how much material I was having to remove.  I will take the "odd" head off and see how "EVEN" works as an odd---it may allow me to more weld thickness to solve the problem!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 25, 2013, 08:39:55 AM
Marty came by last night---weld --grind--weld--grind

The bottom line--we have a push rod that touches the guide and the #4 intake port has a slight case of the "mumps"  just in front of where the rocker stud comes into the port.  It holds alky and doesen't "stay wet'---which indicates it has no pits that come to the surface.

So today we will get back to working on the LUMP!

I have the new actuator and mountinmg brackets for the new fire bottle--- so I am working on the new mount and should finish that today.  Still no bottle though.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 26, 2013, 10:26:38 PM
Well there is going to be a LARGE learning ramp on the spool gun----I have figured out the settings to weld the skin---14v 3.5 on wire feed---

next up work out 1/8" and skin and 1/8" to 1/8" 

The head has be repaired by Mary and I and Andy and I installed it last night.

Brown Santa brought the fire bottle---the box was in bad shape but the bottle seems to be ok---yeah!!!!!!

Andy and I had a milestone----the sub-frame and the outer skin went up and down on the hinges today (after lousy tacks with the spool gun)---now that we know it swings correctly---we made a latch for one side today---duplicating it tomorrow for the other side should be much easier--YEAH  by the end of the weekend we should have the canopy mostly done and then we can remove the body and start the final make ready on a lot off this stuff!!---

Sorry guys the camera is on a walkabout!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on July 26, 2013, 11:44:28 PM
I'd be TIG welding the body Sparky and use lots of tacks. The spool gun will probably prove to be a real challenge. A good example for the use of each process would be the fabrication of a basic seat. I'd TIG tack the assembly and then TIG the outside seams I'd then weld the inside of the seams with the spool gun. For your body work I'd use either TIG or oxy/acetylene. Either way, remember, there's no such thing as too many tacks. That's especially true for either sheet aluminum or stainless.

Good luck!

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 27, 2013, 06:03:52 AM
Go, Sparky, go!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2013, 08:38:14 AM
Canopy latch on the other side took two tries just like the other side  :-( ---I guess my brain and fab skills don't mirror image very well  :cry:

But progress was made---While I was doing canopy latches and spool gun ( 1/8 to 1/8  17V and 4.7 wire speed) Andy made a bracket for the MSD mount.  We now have spring loaded positive latches on both sides mounted to the sub frame.--- lift struts, skin, and windows to go

Sunday Andy and I are going to take the car section by section and get it on paper; then system by system on paper and make a car book. 

After we get this done and the car gets finished from the back end to the back of the eng. bay .  Then pull the motor and start moving
"stuff"  from the 565 NA motor to the 509.

Still looking for the camera---the house warden was through here---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 28, 2013, 10:59:41 AM
latches:
# 1 in it's retain open position
# 2 in it's spring loaded latched position

The latches need to be trimmed and cleaned up.  They should hold the canopy down and the sub-frame locates, and will keep it from getting sucked out at speed.

Will start the skinning today if the lists do not take too long.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 31, 2013, 08:27:16 AM
Andy, Frankie and myself had a busy evening.

01 the inner ss heat shield
02 the complete heat shield (INSTALLED)for the ice water tank

03 tapped the intake manifold bottom for the vacuum line to monitor the crankcase vacuum.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on July 31, 2013, 09:00:49 AM
Looking good! :cheers:

See you in a week!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 31, 2013, 09:01:03 AM
Sparky how many manifold pressure/vacuum sources do you have?  Hooley tapped in 3 and we really could use more.  The BOV's are suppose to each have there own source and not share a source.  We have 3 BOV'x.  We will have two on their own sources and one will maybe have to share.  We need a source for the data logging and the water injection (they should be able to share as they are just need a reference signal whereas the BOV's need a stronger working source.  We would also need one for the  manual boost gauge but won't use it now with the e-Boost2 controller from TURBOSMART since it show boost but the driver won't even see it as it will be at the side door where we can work the menu controls on it easier.

I'd put in 5 sources minimum.  You can always plug those that aren't needed,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 31, 2013, 09:34:12 AM
Sum, This is for Crankcase vacuum ---I noticed that several of the turbo sites sell small external manifolds for multiple devices that need Manifold readings---I have gotten there yet---will be soon I am sure!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on July 31, 2013, 10:26:40 AM
Sum, This is for Crankcase vacuum ---...

I saw that, but it reminded me about the manifold pressure sources.  I could see the manifold working but make sure it isn't supplied by one small source line,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: lsrjunkie on July 31, 2013, 10:41:25 AM
Keep up the thrash Sparky! Can't wait to see this thing in person!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 31, 2013, 11:25:58 AM
Will not be at speed week---sorry guys :-(---but the thrash continues


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on July 31, 2013, 11:37:30 AM
Awwww... :oops:

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on July 31, 2013, 06:33:54 PM
First Treit's streamliner now this??  Oh the humanity!!   :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 31, 2013, 11:28:56 PM
Dan you got it the weak link is us "Dodge" humans  :roll:  I so look forward to meeting you---thanks for the post!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on July 31, 2013, 11:43:02 PM
Canopy sheet metal---uck, uck,  CAN  there many things worse than sheet metal :?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on August 01, 2013, 12:04:33 PM
Canopy sheet metal---uck, uck,  CAN  there many things worse than sheet metal :?

Yep-- fiberglass!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 01, 2013, 12:08:34 PM
lol  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2013, 01:46:30 PM
I think the understanding of why so may use glass is starting to register in my pea brain---alum is not forgiving for the unskilled want a be craftsman..I am on my 4th attempt and each one is getting functionally closer-- but not useable quite yet--- we are talking function not appearance---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 1leg on August 02, 2013, 02:23:55 PM
Bummer,

Are you still planning on attending speed week. i will be there all week and was hoping to meet you and talk about trucks


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on August 02, 2013, 06:27:25 PM
Bummer, Are you still planning on attending speed week. i will be there all week and was hoping to meet you and talk about trucks

I sure hope he is or Im gonna be lost next week  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 02, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Best way to see speed week---wander all through the pits

 1 leg  look forward to it you have my cell


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 07, 2013, 10:28:44 AM
Brackets ---Brackets---Brackets---

but lots and lots of spaces are getting close to "being" _ hope to get brave enough to attack the canopy again soon-- and I need to run the vacuum line and the front mounted fire bottle lines---maybe today


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 08, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
Finished several more brackets, mounting tabs---what ever 

Man it was tuff today,  thinking about seeing a bunch of new cars  WW will not be there yet---

but we are going to see the new car of Rob, Hooleys "makeover", Sum driving, BC racing's 636---much more intercooler capacity and data logging--on and on  Can ED visit the Mayor on consecutive days.

Andy, Frankie, and myself will pull out of here  1:00 pm heading  NORTH  see you on the salt Friday PM.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on August 08, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
Sparky, don't forget the modified mounting brackets for the brackets!  :-D

Will be on the line with the XsStress '32 Ford on Saturday - see ya on the salt Friday & WoS!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 13, 2013, 01:27:01 AM
Woody----what a great visit you, Terry and I had --you are a TRUE renisance MAN


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on August 13, 2013, 09:37:21 AM
I was the one that was favored.

Sparky looked me up at Salt Talks.

What a gentleman he is.

I was overjoyed.

Thanks, Spark.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 13, 2013, 12:47:44 PM
My Good Dr.  ---  you should be aware of my  major character flaw----flattery will get you every where with me!!! :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on August 13, 2013, 02:53:34 PM
Great to finally meet you Sparky! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 13, 2013, 04:14:08 PM
Hey Sparky, you've been quite the social butterfly, all that big Texan charm.....personally I am regretting every minute that I'm not there and every time I see someone saying "I met Sparky" I think to myself ...." Well, I always had THIS!"...


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on August 13, 2013, 04:30:02 PM
Hey Sparky, you've been quite the social butterfly, all that big Texan charm.....personally I am regretting every minute that I'm not there and every time I see someone saying "I met Sparky" I think to myself ...." Well, I always had THIS!"...

Worst thing was I had to drink all of the 11th Hour IPA. The Scots were too busy to have a beer! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 13, 2013, 04:38:39 PM
oh you poor thing :cry:

all that horrible IPA......

Once again, I wish I was there, I could have helped. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on August 13, 2013, 05:06:39 PM
oh you poor thing :cry:

all that horrible IPA......

Once again, I wish I was there, I could have helped. :cheers:

We alternated. 11th Hour IPA, Coors, Dales Pale Ale. The Coors was to cleanse your palette of all the Hops and make you appreciate the Ales more! I did drink one of Sparky's and Frankie's Bud Lights at the Salt Talks.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on August 13, 2013, 06:20:25 PM
Dr G, you were on the minds of many of us while up on the salt this weekend. I did meet one of your fellow countrymen Graham at the Salt Talks and I walked away with a SoS t-shirt at the salt talks raffle


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on August 14, 2013, 12:28:33 AM
Goggles my first drawing choice at Salt Talks was a white DLRA hat.

Great choice.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 14, 2013, 01:31:45 AM
Dr G, you were on the minds of many of us while up on the salt this weekend. I did meet one of your fellow countrymen Graham at the Salt Talks and I walked away with a SoS t-shirt at the salt talks raffle

excellent! Graham is a sort of Aussie..hahaha he's an ex-pat Brit but he'll do, I hope you're enjoying it as much as I would have.........


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 14, 2013, 10:18:01 PM
Dr. G  you rocked in the shop today while i crawled with the canopy!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 18, 2013, 09:10:09 AM
" Well, I always had THIS!"...  Ahhhhh the infamous "B Plan"

Rex,  I so enjoyed our conversation and studying your ride  pls. send me a PM



"Great to finally meet you Sparky!"

Likewise T Man---its good to be able to put a face with a name!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 18, 2013, 07:06:31 PM
Pedro of the Montana Dodge Boys came by yesterday to see the car -- John McKnight who helps on the WW brought him by.

John gave me a book by Larry Davis  "WILD WEASEL, the SAM suppression story" .  In it he mentions that the F 105s had aux fuel tanks in the bomb bay where the A bombs would normally have been.

My tank is Serial number plate says it is  serial # 3 manufactured in May of 1957 Farmingdale LI NY part number 58631084.

I have been busy on the canopy after returning from my few days at SW  it is about 90% done  need to cut the new safety plastic glass and a few welds and then ---pop rivet the glass and structure---this thing is not going to be pretty but it will be functional and I bet the canopy will not come open if I am ever unlucky enough to spin this thing. 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 24, 2013, 10:29:45 PM
Back in the shop today---I am so tired of this CANOPY  but maybe just maybe  I have done the final noodle---Andy and I are "supposed" to Pull the tank off the front tomorrow  and we can run the 1/4" steel tubing for the two instruments and seal the tank to the bulkhead.   Still lots to do but we are getting a glitter at the end of the tunnel.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on August 24, 2013, 10:35:19 PM
...  Still lots to do but we are getting a glitter at the end of the tunnel....

Stick with it and just keep knocking things off the list.  The tunnel does have an end, or kind of one since we are never totally happy with our cars  :cry:,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on August 25, 2013, 06:26:53 AM
Go Sparky, go! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 26, 2013, 05:12:26 AM
Rework---redid the brake and throttle pedals yesterday,
we are challenged with where our feet can go we have two pedals and the harness strap that is between our feet  will be driving with funny car boots not shoes, 

think that I have the chute cables and drivers fire bottle nailed

Andy was able to help noodle the systems and order of attack we are at the wiring and plumbing stage now


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 27, 2013, 07:23:35 AM
from movie "Music Man"

" We have trouble, trouble, right here in Dessert City! And it is spelled CANOPY,

The way I built this thing, trying to take advantage of it original shape is proving to be PROBLEMATIC !!!!!!!!!

The way I designed and built the instrument panel; I do not have NOW have as much room  to fold up to get out:

First step is easy--John and I cut out the front roll bar hoop yesterday.  The  several of "Tech Inspectors" didn't like its double bend any way.  One less area of concern. now to get the replacement finished coped and tacked to see if that opens it up ENOUGH to not require a complete redoing of the instrument panel area.



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on August 27, 2013, 07:45:54 AM
Sparky, about your problem with foot location:  don't forget that Tom Burkland drives the family 'liner with both feet on the left side, right foot directly above the left.  Sounds clumsy to me, but he's gone pretty fast with that arrangement. :roll:  Maybe something like that'd work?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on August 27, 2013, 11:10:49 AM
from movie "Music Man"

" We have trouble, trouble, right here in Dessert City! And it is spelled CANOPY,  
The way I built this thing, trying to take advantage of it original shape is proving to be PROBLEMATIC !!!!!!!!!

The way I designed and built the instrument panel; I do not have NOW have as much room  to fold up to get out:

First step is easy--John and I cut out the front roll bar hoop yesterday.  The  several of "Tech Inspectors" didn't like its double bend any way.  One less area of concern. now to get the replacement finished coped and tacked to see if that opens it up ENOUGH to not require a complete redoing of the instrument panel area.

...with a capital "T" and that rhymes with "C" and that stands for Canopy!

I hope you can modify things enough that you don't have to backtrack too far.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 27, 2013, 01:28:30 PM
LOL--- too good Neil---- :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 30, 2013, 09:34:15 AM
Well  a new hoop is almost finished, relocated the chute and fire bottle cables trimmed the canopy inner frame, installed new gas struts, changed their mounting points to change the angle of lift---

maybe I will get brave enough to try getting in and out today--- if I can I will install the belts and try a bail out.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on August 30, 2013, 09:58:34 AM
GO Sparky GO!!  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on August 30, 2013, 11:27:54 AM
Cant wait to see the progress made next week. Seems like its been forever since ive been over there getting my hands dirty


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on August 30, 2013, 11:51:50 AM
.....
maybe I will get brave enough to try getting in and out today--- if I can I will install the belts and try a bail out...

If you are alone don't forget to have the cell phone within reach so you can call for help if you get stuck  8-) 8-) :evil: :-D,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 30, 2013, 12:29:38 PM
Sum,  :roll:  I can pull my helmet when I am stuck.  :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on August 30, 2013, 02:17:05 PM
I'm always in awe of cars that get it right first time, because it sure is harder chopping stuff out than welding it in.......our particular 10lbs of sh&%+$ has had a few changes to it's storage system but however you do it you've still only got a 5lb bag......couple of changes again this year...the wheel is either too high,or too low...nevermind you probably can't read this anyway Bill,stuck in the car ,cell phone out reach. :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 30, 2013, 05:36:21 PM
 :-D  hate to disappoint you guys---but by throwing my left leg over the side and sticking my right knee is the lower left side of the canopy I can now get out ---with the surgery on the gas and brake petal make moving my feet and legs around much easier  :-)  John came over this afternoon we worked out the secondary chute deployment system, and are starting on the electrical system and where to put the switches---
Ign.
starter button
#1 water pump eng cooli
#2  water pump intercooler (will only use with artificial density altitude}

forgot this one:

#3 water pump  transfer water from the Rad. in a Box back to resivor
ECU
ECU data logging start
Quick data
Quick data logging start

On the steering wheel there will be the GV od switch


we think we FOUND a place  will go back out and mock up 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Elmo Rodge on August 30, 2013, 05:41:28 PM
Bill, when do you plan to run? Wayno


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on August 30, 2013, 07:40:47 PM
:-D  hate to disappoint you guys---but by throwing my left leg over the side and sticking my right knee is the lower left side of the canopy I can now get out -....
...an here I thought I'd get a call in the morning from Linda asking if I knew where you took off to  :-)


.....
ECU
ECU data logging start
Quick data
Quick data logging start 
 

Can you put the ECU and the Quick data on/off on the same switch and also do the same with 'start logging' functions for both.  That would be 2 less switches to find room for.

How about the fuel?  Is it mechanical pump with a fuel shut-off or electric with a switch and auto roll-over switch which I don't want you to ever try using on the course?

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 30, 2013, 11:32:39 PM
mechanical pump, mechanical shut off

  Sum all of the data logging that I have  require a secondary "signal" to start logging either time, throttle position, rpm or a separate  switch


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 31, 2013, 12:10:35 AM
WayneO  :-o WF---it is breaking my heart to not see the the first runs on the salt of Rob's and Marlo's new 'Liners  but I want to run my  car worse----I have decided to stay home and work on my car---there is still a TON that needs to be done--but slowly  the loose ends are getting tied down---the binge-engineering is almost all done!!!!!!!!!!!

"The fallacy lies in the execution" Vince Lombardi---GB Packers  1964

PS  Wow  I must have been ?????????? I wrote facility instead of fallacy--- after rereading this this morning  I decided to look the word up again, it just didn't "read" right---turns out just about means the opposite of each other--- muddled sr.minds


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on August 31, 2013, 12:54:17 AM
mechanical pump, mechanical shut off

  Sum all of the data logging that I have  require a secondary "signal" to start logging either time, throttle position, rpm or a separate  switch

I'll call you tomorrow (sat.).  You could use switches with 2 poles to control the separate start signals via one switch if needed.  I'd also think that one switch could control the power to both loggers.  I'd think you would want to start logging on both at the same time to help somewhat with correlating them time-wise.

I have a feeling that sooner or later you will end up with one device to do the logging.  I tend to use the rpm track (easy to see the shift points) and the TPS most of the time to tell me where and what the driver was doing then add or subtract the other channels.  Looking at them all (16) at once is too confusing.  With the logworks you can look at any combination and it also gives time across the bottom. 

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on August 31, 2013, 09:05:56 AM
Sum, you may be right but the QuickData has EGTs and several temp and pressure probes---

right now I have decided to use the QD for stuff be fore the intake inlet and the ECU Data logging for the eng functions


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 02, 2013, 09:18:39 AM
A pretty good day in the shop-- and a trip to Ace Hardware, Home Depot and O'Rileys.  Chasing drawer pulls and cable stops for the throttle cables and chute cables and some 10-32 screws for the coil isolator pads.  I have just about gotten all of the "before instillation" mounting done on all the cables and water lines.

We are now almost to the point where we make the eng bay sheet metal pull the eng,finish welding the new diagonals,seal the bulk head on both sides, and weld a bunch of nuts we will not be able to get to, and mount the sheet metal.

Then get the eng. finalized and install wire and plumb.

It never stops amazing me that I can spend several busy hours in the shop and to have no more that a few tapped holes in a now hard mounted bracket to show for it.

This thing continues to evolve in my pea brain:

In honor of the F 105 "Wild Weasels"  from which my bomb bay tank came from, I will do my nose with "nose art." I think I will then put the name of "Ms. LIBERTY" on it in honor of all who have and are fighting  for our liberties, be those battles foreign or domestic, in or out of uniform.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: doug odom on September 02, 2013, 10:15:30 AM
Yes Sparky, That last 10% of a race car build takes 10 times longer than planned.

Doug Odom in Big Ditch


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on September 02, 2013, 02:57:53 PM
Sounds like its coming together well Sparky, list must be getting shorter.

Do you want me to send new batteries for your camera :)

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 02, 2013, 03:35:20 PM
Jon,  I am just about through will pulling the two 1/4" steel lines one for vac. and one for boost, and I nearly have the fire bottle and chute releases--I have one more bracket to relocate and almost through with the throttle cable.  I did hunt down the upload cable though and do know where the camera is   :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 02, 2013, 09:18:29 PM
Jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 02, 2013, 09:26:18 PM
more


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 02, 2013, 09:29:31 PM
last 2


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on September 03, 2013, 03:01:33 AM
Thanks Sparky.
Got a fair bit happening.
Like the shape of the new front hoop, not a big fan of the S bend shapes, they're probably plenty strong.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on September 03, 2013, 10:52:55 AM
Are there veins inside the scoop?

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 03, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
Veins o
are for mainlining, vanes are for turning  ---

Dr. F-- knowing you I know that was a test to see how well or how fast I wake up in the morning ??  not yet this thing is on purpose huge inside  I am planning on putting a  splitter inside to keep air from going straight across the top of the carb.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Geo on September 03, 2013, 11:50:48 AM
Sparky,

I'm enjoying the build more, now that we have photos!  :evil:  Looks good, nice changes. I was working on my car this weekend and sat there thinking about the placement and routing of the kill switch, battery, cables with the new fuel cell. I thought of you and the term "noodling" as I sat there, my wife came to check on me due to no noise and asked what I was doing and that's what I told her.  She shook her head and walked back into the house.

Geo


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on September 03, 2013, 11:52:12 AM
Spello check didn't give me the proper word......LOL

I know that the scoop that was designed by Bob Herda,

for this 'liner and a few of his special friends, had vanes

that directed the air. He was an aeronautical engineer and

applied his knowledge to this project.

With the amount of data that is available online it

should be possible to match the efficiency that he enjoyed.

In light of my misuse of a dual purpose word,

just an old druggie trying to reform,

FerD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on September 03, 2013, 12:00:44 PM
So what is going on here....

(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=42701;image)

...you have so much time that you are building a second car :-o :-o?

Where is the one with the turbos and hat and ....


Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 03, 2013, 01:08:47 PM
Same car  Sum---  I am just a chicken. I am down to exactly 4 week to get this car on a trailer if I want to run it this year on the salt.
  NA all I have to do is put a dist in this thing an blow off all this super fancy stuff.  I am back in here looking for switches  I need to drill and mount switches and pull wires.  Just go the throttle cable done except must rig up a clamp block to hold the cable.  I just realized  that I had left a pump off the system; the transfer pump to empty the radiator in a box back to the cooling water tank.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 03, 2013, 01:19:12 PM
Geo,to our Okie friends Noodling means grappling or fishing for catfish by feeling around in holes in the water with ones hands---well I am fishing around for ideas in an area , thats about as clear as mud  most of the time,  my cranium-----lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 03, 2013, 11:44:36 PM
I had a pretty good day and Frankie came over for 3 hours.  We cut paper dolls, removed the turbos, and I "found"
a set of Schoenfield 2 1/8" headers that I completly forgot that I had---they are for circle track, look weird,  catch way to much air and will make Miss Liberty sound like a BB roadster on the top end---but they can be installed with out modification------YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!   :cheers: 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 05, 2013, 10:29:57 AM
Guys, I am sorry there is just not much taking picts of at this stage of the build---what is there to take picts of-- a single weld here,  a small bracket there, spendngi a couple of hours on the internet on Waytek's website ordering fuses and switches.  Several hours getting the throttle cable at just the right angle  :|  to try to keep it from hanging up... bracket racing at its WORSE---finishing a car


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 05, 2013, 10:53:22 PM
Geo an all others who like the photos--got something to photo
03  the Schoenfield circle track headers  nice 2 1/8 with short collector

02 my first attempt at Dutz fastners--thanks to S&S Engineering for the fastners and especially the installation instructions online

01 the first completed fastner 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 07, 2013, 08:27:57 PM
rear sheetmetal -- finished no---secure & able to run YES   :-D

1 bay down 2 to go

Try to finish the tranny bay tomorrow!

Crunch time--- 14 days to go


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on September 07, 2013, 09:18:02 PM
Looking Good Sparky.
Are the Stroud pilot chute launchers?


thanks
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 07, 2013, 11:03:52 PM
Yes Jon 3" alum irrigation tube is what he recommends for pilot chutes

All in all a very good day: 
got the drive shaft hoop in
finished welding the new diagnols
finished cleaning up some of the stuff I cut out, when installing the turbos---not all-- some of it still is UGLY

Miss Liberty is going to look big when you look at how long she is
 but this is just a 30" dia. tank  with the small tires it is gong to be fairly low  I will be glad when the switches get here---I need a break from SHEETMETAL!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on September 08, 2013, 12:49:46 AM
... In honor of the F 105 "Wild Weasels"  from which my bomb bay tank came from...
I spent my Air Force hitch as an F-105D flight simulator specialist in Germany (49th Tactical). I never heard of "Wild Weasels"- was that one particular fighter wing?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on September 08, 2013, 01:08:50 AM
... In honor of the F 105 "Wild Weasels"  from which my bomb bay tank came from...
I spent my Air Force hitch as an F-105D flight simulator specialist in Germany (49th Tactical). I never heard of "Wild Weasels"- was that one particular fighter wing?

My dad says the F-105's were called 'Thuds', because so many crashed.

From Wikipedia:

Wild Weasel is a name for aircraft, of any type, equipped with radar-seeking missiles and tasked with destroying the radars and SAM installations of enemy air defense systems.[1][2]

The Wild Weasel concept was developed by the United States Air Force in 1965, after the introduction of Soviet SAM missiles and their downing of U.S. strike aircraft over the skies of North Vietnam.[3] The program was headed by General Kenneth Dempster.

Wild Weasel tactics and techniques began their developmment in 1965 following the commencement of Operation Rolling Thunder during the Vietnam War, and were later adapted by other nations during following conflicts, as well as being integrated into the Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) a plan used by US air forces to establish immediate air control, prior to possible full scale conflict.[2] Initially known by the operational code "Iron Hand" when first authorized on 12 August 1965, the term "Wild Weasel" derives from Project Wild Weasel, the USAF development program for a dedicated SAM-detection and suppression aircraft. (The technique {or a specific part} was also called an "Iron Hand" mission, though technically the Iron Hand part refers only to a suppression attack that paves the way for the main strike.[4]) Originally named "Project Ferret", denoting a predatory animal that goes into its prey's den to kill it (hence: "to ferret out"), the name was changed to differentiate it from the code-name "Ferret" that had been used during World War II for radar counter-measures bombers.

In brief, the task of a Wild Weasel aircraft is to bait enemy anti-aircraft defenses into targeting it with their radars, whereupon the radar waves are traced back to their source allowing the Weasel or its teammates to precisely target it for destruction. A simple analogy is playing the game of "flashlight tag" in the dark; a flashlight is usually the only reliable means of identifying someone in order to "tag" (destroy) them, but the light immediately renders the bearer able to be identified and attacked as well. The result is a hectic game of cat-and-mouse in which the radar "flashlights" are rapidly cycled on and off in an attempt to identify and kill the target before the target is able to home in on the emitted radar "light" and destroy the siteWild Weasel I[edit source | editbeta]

The Wild Weasel concept was originally proposed in 1965 as a method of countering the increasing North Vietnamese SAM threat, using volunteer crews flying the two-seat F model of the F-100 Super Sabre; while the United States Navy primarily relied upon the A-4 Skyhawk.[5][6] While an effective airframe, the F-100F Wild Weasel did not have the performance characteristics to survive in a high threat environment. The first Wild Weasel squadron was the 354th Tactical Fighter Squadron based at Takhli Royal Thai Air Base, Thailand. After 45 days of operations against North Vietnamese targets, the 354th had one airplane left and of the 16 aircrew members, four had been killed, two were POW's, three had been wounded and two had quit.

Wild Weasel II and III[edit source | editbeta]
The Wild Weasel II version was the first unsuccessful attempt to use the F-4C as the Wild Weasel platform. When that effort failed, the Wild Weasel role was then passed to the F-105F in the summer of 1966. The F-105F was converted for the role and was designated Wild Weasel III. The F-105F was equipped with more advanced radar, jamming equipment, and a heavier armament. Anti-radiation missiles were outfitted that could seek out radar emplacements. The F-105F Wild Weasel airframes were eventually modified with improved countermeasures components in a standardize configuration and designated the F-105G. The F-105G was also designated Wild Weasel III; 61 F-105F units were upgraded to F-105G specifications. Although in some documentation the F-105F was referred to as an EF-105F, that designation never existed in the operational flying squadrons.[7][citation needed]

Wild Weasel IV[edit source | editbeta]
The F-105 had gone out of production by 1964. With severe combat attrition of the F-105 inventory, the need for a still more sophisticated aircraft resulted in the conversion of 36 F-4C Phantom II aircraft, designated F-4C Wild Weasel IV. The F-4C Wild Weasel IV was also not designated as an EF-4C.

Wild Weasel V[edit source | editbeta]
The F-4E, the most advanced Phantom variant with extensive ground-attack capabilities and an internal gun, became the basis for the F-4G Wild Weasel V (also known as the Advanced Wild Weasel). This modification consisted of removing the gun and replacing it with the APR-38(t) Radar Homing and Warning Receiver (later upgraded to the APR-47), and a cockpit upgrade for the back seat to manage the electronic combat environment. A total of 134 F-4G models were converted from F-4Es with the first one flying in 1975. Squadron service began in 1978.

F-4Gs were deployed to three active wings. One was stationed at George AFB, Victorville, California. as part of the Rapid Deployment Force; one wing was assigned to USAFE (US Air Forces Europe) at Spangdahlem AB, Germany; and the other to PACAF (Pacific Air Forces) at Clark AFB, Philippines. F-4Gs from George AFB and Spangdahlem AB saw combat during Operation Desert Storm in 1991, successfully protecting strike packages from enemy air defenses. During this conflict the F-4G saw heavy use, with only a single loss: an aircraft from Spangdahlem AB crashed in Saudi Arabia while returning from a mission. After an investigation into the loss of the aircraft which occurred during several aborted landing attempts in a sandstorm, it was determined that a fuel cell was punctured by anti-aircraft fire. The pilot and EWO safely ejected after the engines seized when the aircraft ran out of fuel attempting to land at a forward airstrip.

After Desert Storm, some of the George AFB aircraft were assigned to the 124th Wing of the Air National Guard at Boise, Idaho, 190th Fighter Squadron. Aircraft from Spangdahlem, Clark, and the remainder from George were assigned to the 57th Fighter Wing (Active AF) assigned to Nellis AFB at Las Vegas, 561st Fighter Squadron. The aircraft remained in service until 1996, with both squadrons participating in frequent deployments to Saudi Arabia and Turkey in support of Operation Provide Comfort, Operation Southern Watch, and Operation Vigilant Warrior enforcing the no-fly zones over Iraq. By this time the F-4G was the last operational variant of the Phantom II in the US forces. Many of the airframes were later used as target drones and Aircraft Battle Damage Repair training aids.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: grumm441 on September 08, 2013, 03:43:02 AM
So , a modification to a bunch of aircraft
yep, somthing I already knew
G


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 08, 2013, 08:02:55 PM
Andy, and I had a good 6 hours in the shop today the tranny bay sheet metal is in place with clecos,  welded up the two parts of the original tank to make the bottom of the eng bay and have the two frt dutz fastners installed so that part of the eng bay is located---now comes the hard part---installing the tabs and adjusting the Dutz fastners----I am a coward I do one at a time---so far the panels line up and I can get them back on----have I tod you I am tired of SHEIT Metal!!!!! :x

But it is looking more and more like a FPD and hopefully a fast one at that :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 08, 2013, 08:37:38 PM
We had a Phoenix flood today :-o ---i.e. it rained enough to run off the roof 8-)

These are pitiful shots to reflect how sore and beat up I feel  !!!!!!!11


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jack Gifford on September 08, 2013, 11:53:10 PM
Is a Dutz fastener anything like a Dzus ('D' is silent) fastener (invented by Volodymyr Dzhus)?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 09, 2013, 08:01:07 AM
Dzus---damm Jack, I just read the correct spelling and STILL could not get it right---thanks for the education---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on September 09, 2013, 12:43:19 PM
Sparky, just don't show up in a Zoot fire suit with Dzus buttons!  :-D :-D :-D That's a tange-toungler 10x real fast!  :cheers:

[http://www.ask.com/wiki/Zoot_suit?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com]


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 10, 2013, 01:24:52 AM
SHEITMETAL  :-(


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 10, 2013, 02:51:20 PM
80% done 80% to go   now I understand special construction taking so long---you are constantly taking things off and putting them back on to see if things will clear :-(   and learning new skills because you are doing something for the first time it takes so long!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on September 10, 2013, 04:16:27 PM
80% done 80% to go   now I understand special construction taking so long---you are constantly taking things off and putting them back on to see if things will clear :-(   an learning new skills because you are doing something for the first time it takes so long!!!!!!

Absolutely true, Bill!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 10, 2013, 11:14:03 PM
got the top panel finished today this will now all Dzus in around the air intake.  I made a little special tool today that will help a lot on installing the rest of the tabs will take picts tomorrow .


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 11, 2013, 10:25:26 PM
Marty came by tonight and welded the new frt hoop and I got several more Dzus tabs installed.




double entry see below thanks to a untimely Windows update  oh the joys of Microsoft!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on September 12, 2013, 07:09:40 AM
Looking good, Sparky!

Going to add the turbos this winter, then?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 12, 2013, 07:38:30 AM
Yes Buddy, I plan on finishing the turbo install this winter.  If we get a track I hope to long coarse qualify it and return my lisc to AA at least.

Was busy in the shop yesterday with sheet metal, but most of all Marty came by an welded in the new frt. hoop and gussies.

Francis, from Tucson, well actually Oro Valley, who built this great looking intake, is coming up today to check on my progress and help jump start the wiring job.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 12, 2013, 10:45:13 AM
Looking good, cant wait to see the progress in person


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 12, 2013, 08:31:33 PM
I must be getting punch drunk about when I thought guys were going to show up---solo in shop today lots of little stuff---only thing worth posting is the battery mount---beside the right side of the block behind fuel pump area.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 12, 2013, 08:37:08 PM
80% done 80% to go   now I understand special construction taking so long---you are constantly taking things off and putting them back on to see if things will clear :-(   and learning new skills because you are doing something for the first time it takes so long!!!!!!

It gives you new appreciation for mass produced vehicles that are easy to work on.....when I work on the grocery getter I temper my frustration by reminding myself that on the car I built I have to pull the engine to change the battery terminals.....well not quite , but almost......
I must be getting punch drunk about when I thought guys were going to show up---solo in shop today lots of little stuff---only thing worth posting is the battery mount---beside the right side of the block behind fuel pump area.

Speaking of which our old battery mount was one of our favorite little nick-nacks on the car......this year we put the battery uner the seat and the pretty little piece that used to hold it got ditched.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 13, 2013, 10:08:27 AM
Lord don't you just hate it when you create the stacked sequence of removals to get to something.  And sometimes try as you might one just ends up there.  :x


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 13, 2013, 11:51:15 AM
Youll have help this evening. This week has just been the suck for me.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 15, 2013, 02:00:29 PM
Andy and I had a great morning in working on the SHEETMETAL  we are getting close to having this stuff mounted.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 15, 2013, 11:09:54 PM
While Andy went to his company picnic this afternoon I worked on the nose piece inspection panel.  when Andy came back this evening he had a idea on how to close it.  Picts Monday!  Tonight we worked some more on the sheet metal on the tranny bay and behind the rear axle.  I have 3 more Dzus  to dimple, wire and finish and we are done except canopy and eng bay around the headers... ohhhh so close!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on September 15, 2013, 11:21:27 PM
More pics! More pics!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on September 16, 2013, 07:15:32 AM
More pics! More pics!

Sparky, see how quickly they turn on you when they are "done"!  :-o :-D :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 16, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
LOL   :cheers:

What I feel like that has turned on me, is my body---this getting up and down off the floor wrestling with this sheet metal underneath the car---almost has my body in full strike "lockout" mode-- :-(

This thing is getting closer also---we have had to take more and more things off or out so we can evaluate or weld the tabs.  the eng bay  is all we like will have to order more Dzus and springs & 4 long tabs today from S&S Eng. to finish.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 16, 2013, 08:10:21 AM
These are the two remaining exterior body parts, One is just 6 holes and dimples 3 spring installs---yeah


Canopy  must come off cut new "glass" and final assembly reinstall after
Cano front nose piece is back on.

Then take completely apart, check over the eng and instal the dist;  check all welds, seal the bulk head an start final assembly, wiring and plumping  we may just make WF if we have a good fortune and a track.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 16, 2013, 08:18:45 AM
This is the inspection cover that I made while Andy was at his co picnic.  It was Andy's idea to have the 5th to be able to use the wire to pull the cover into place. This is necessary so that the sub, supporting plate can be lock in place,  also fills the "depression". This is necessary so that we can bolt the nose on the front of the tank, in front of the frt. axle.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on September 16, 2013, 10:07:11 AM
....l we like will have to order more Dzus and springs & 4 long tabs today from S&S Eng. to finish...

Congrats you are getting there!!!

If it is quicker I could send you some Dzus fasteners, springs and plates today.  You would probably get them Wed..  You could weld normal tabs to strap to make them longer.  They are the allen head ones and Hooley knows a new place you can order those from also.  So much easier to work with on the car vs. the slotted ones.

Call me if you want them.  I go to SLC to doc tomorrow and will be back Wed. I think but could send them today,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 16, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
Pretty smart fella that Mr Helmandollar is  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on September 16, 2013, 12:05:47 PM
Must be good to be finishing sheitmetal Sparky.
You made most of the major hoses on the way didnt you?

I think Goggles has a bit of yellow wire left over if you need some.

Cheers
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 16, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
LOL aahh the color coded wire!!!!!!!!!1 :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 16, 2013, 10:44:35 PM
Marty came by tonight and finished welding the canopy with the spool gun---he wanted to try it---it is just different---it can fill gaps much easier than tig and it localizes the heat much better than tig---he did both on finishing the canopy welding.  I have a lot of fitment grinding to do an install the new "glass" then.

Yippe kia yeah!!!!!  we are on to stripping every thing out----plumbing, wiring, and all of the fitting necessary for final assy.  Hopefully we can fire this PUPPY"S lump  in a week to 10 days!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Skip Pipes on September 17, 2013, 01:00:25 AM
Looking good my friend. Shame I don't live closer, I'd give you a hand on the body.
Good luck at WF.

Skip


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 17, 2013, 10:38:11 AM
Thanks Skip  I look forward to your roadster on the DIRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 17, 2013, 11:47:09 AM
Hopefully Frankie is going to be able to work today ---I am expecting him in a few minutes.  We are going to clean up the sh.op so that we can pull the eng. and start this last phase of this Journey that started what seems oh so long ago. Almost exactly 2.5 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 17, 2013, 08:34:04 PM
Frankie came--- we were busy


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 17, 2013, 08:56:33 PM
Yep, I made it afterall and as Sparky said, we were busy. The car looks nekkid with out the big rat and 'glide. Im planning on heading back over there early Saturday morning to put some time in wherever is needed on the car.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 17, 2013, 10:17:40 PM
Frankie I sure hope you can make it---thanks again

After Frankie left  turned the eng through several times----cleaned up stuff and reinstalled the dist and rough  timed it.

Andy came over tonight for a hour and we went over the car an tagged any weld touch up areas for grinding or more welding---lifted the rear as high as the jack stands will go and got ready for tomorrows welding and grinding.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 18, 2013, 05:29:59 PM
Well we are on to gooping the bulkhead with 3M fire caulk  :lol:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 18, 2013, 09:04:40 PM
Foamed the front side tonight---will clean and trim --then caulk the eng side tomorrow!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on September 19, 2013, 12:07:08 AM
Go 3M. They produce the best products. They sponsor me  and I requested an Epoxy adhesive. They sent me "flooring adhesive".  I imagined vynil floor tiling. It's actually for aviation flooring and composite bulkheads. In 26 years of using the "best" this 3M stuff blew them away totally. I initially thought it was fairly average because it was still rubbery after 24 hours but by the next day.... unbelievable. If you ever need this type material I have the details. Good luck on the grinding, I also have to fix some welds. 8-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: gkabbt on September 19, 2013, 05:01:09 AM
Foamed the front side tonight---will clean and trim --then caulk the eng side tomorrow!

Sparky, help me out on this one.....don't understand what you are talking about!

Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 19, 2013, 07:46:20 AM
Foamed the front side tonight---will clean and trim --then caulk the eng side tomorrow!

Sparky, help me out on this one.....don't understand what you are talking about!


Gregg, he is referring to the bulkhead/firewall between the drivers compartment and engine bay. He's putting a layer of insulation on the drivers side of the bh as an added layer of protection besides the bead of firestop on the engine side of the bh.

Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 19, 2013, 08:07:41 AM
They are both fire stops  one is foam from a can  the other is caulk from a tube. The caulk will for sure be used on the bottom.  The caulk shrinks some as it cures. Both products expand with fire heat but the caulk sometimes creates pin holes as it ages. The inspectors rightly take issue with these and we've had to put fresh caulk to get through inspection in the past.

We are doing both due to their different properties when cured.
 
 I have been to the shop and tested one of my test gobs---it has not cured in its core so I will wait until tonight to test the other gob to see if it is dry in the center.  I do not want to "work it" until completely cured.---It is not like I don't have other things do do like drill drain holes in the bottom of the tank bay in case of fuel leaks or spills.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 19, 2013, 08:36:38 AM
Gkabat--Hope this helps. This is what Andy and I now call Cheeto foam---when it first comes out and starts to grow---wallah looks just like Cheetos

1st picture shows one of the reason we need to use foam---we had to jam a pry bar in there to be able to get the foam tube in there

2nd show the second reason in some areas there was a huge gap

the first two are from the drivers side the

3rd is from the eng side of the bulkhead this side we will cut chip and grind so that we can get a good caulk seal on this side.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 19, 2013, 10:44:17 AM
That chit looks nasty LOL Ill see it in person this weekend  :-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: gkabbt on September 19, 2013, 03:21:43 PM
Guys, thanks for the explanation. I am familiar with the caulk (have some for my Rampage) but not the foam.

Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 19, 2013, 11:45:25 PM
I liked what the foam looked like so much I foamed the back also tonight.    Pretty good day---started at the back installed the chutes.   Then started on locking down the water tank,  worked on the eng some then when Andy came over at 6:00  we started pulling wires we now have all the wires pulled that we will need for this configuration.. When we put the lump back in we will start we will start putting juice to these wires !!!!!!! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 21, 2013, 12:07:41 AM
Well this day didn't exactly go as I had hoped-- but did get a lot of loose ends wrapped up!  should have a great day Sat!! Frankie Andy , maybe Francis and Marty can help out!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: azgearhed on September 21, 2013, 08:29:51 PM
Like I said-lemme know if I can help with something -I'd like to repay the help you gave us. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 21, 2013, 11:00:36 PM
Thanks Tim,   

No debt--- no obligation-- I just hope you don't hold it against me for any part that I may have played in your addiction---  lol   8-)  I will give you a call  Mon. AM!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 21, 2013, 11:08:26 PM
 a very good day

Francis drove up from Oro Grande and took the lead in his and Frankies efforts with the switch panel  and wiring the systems

Andy helped me at the rear of the car with this darn pilot chute launcher  :-P  this thing could be dangerous when you have to generate around 75-90 # of force to depress the darn spring---look out, stay away and be careful, and build in some with some safety measures. :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on September 21, 2013, 11:24:14 PM
Those chutes do pack some pressure, i made a loading pin for mine to make it easier to pack.
A couple of people have asked about my chutes lately.
Think I'm running the same sort of pilots as you (Stroud), will chuck a couple of pics up in my thread.

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 21, 2013, 11:41:19 PM
Thanks Jon I will post some picts of the windlass we built today.

 tomorrow we will put the tanks in, and put the eng and tranny back, as well as the frt of the tank.

we can then get on with the final plumbing an wiring.  the FLUIDS distilled water in the eng and cooling.

0-30 Synthetic Motor Oil  in the rear diff

 synthetic Mobil 1 motor oil in motor
Synthetic trany oils in th PF and GV  use different stuff


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 22, 2013, 09:23:32 PM
Francis and Frankie's handy work yesterday

Frankie wired in the GV switch today and built the bracket that secures the cooling water tank


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 22, 2013, 09:28:41 PM
Marty dropped by this afternoon and repaired the the flexplate ,that I run without a torque converter, by building up the mangled teeth and then truing them with a floppy grinder disk.

Andy took the lead on getting the tanks back in, and finishing  the 7.5 " GM rear axle is now locked down, has not quite 2 qts. of Mobil 1 0w-50w and is now ready to be bled.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 22, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
The Spanish Windlass Marty, Andy and I came up with that will let us install the Stroud Pilot chutes---  simple ---sorta MM but  we can load the chutes and they "FIRE" out the pilots  :-o

The cooling system pumps are getting locked down and  final plumbed.

I am starting to install the fuel system up front---tight and tricky to get it all in and working. 


Tim should be up tomorrow and the thrash will CONTINUE!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 22, 2013, 10:17:16 PM
You guys got quite a bit done after I left, sweet. Did you wind up having to drill holes in the body to get the tank straps fastened or did you you have enough room tilting the two outer tanks?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 23, 2013, 12:04:33 AM
nope---tilt the two side tanks and jam the radiator in a box in---lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Ron Gibson on September 23, 2013, 09:14:40 AM
Sparky
Don't know if you run any "wetter". My purple says "NOT" to run distilled water. I don't have any idea of why, but that is what the label says. Maybe some one more informed than me can explain.

Ron


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on September 23, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
From Wikipedia....

Quote
Distilled water is preferable to tap water for use in automotive cooling systems. The minerals and ions typically found in tap water can be corrosive to internal engine components, and can cause a more rapid depletion of the anti-corrosion additives found in most antifreeze formulations.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: lsrjunkie on September 23, 2013, 08:11:41 PM
Looking good guys!  :cheers: I'll be tracking you guys down next week to check this beast out in person! Keep up the thrash!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 23, 2013, 11:47:40 PM
do not run any wetter---I run distilled so that I do not have to worry about mineral build up which is almost like ceramic as for as stopping heat transfer.

01 Tim Cox came up this AM and we got to work he modified the starter so that we can get it lump in the car  :-o

02 the chutes are almost done

03  the drive train and required safety items are almost all finished


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 23, 2013, 11:53:00 PM
well the eng and tank bay is starting to get crowded


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on September 24, 2013, 12:50:43 AM
I rotated the chute shot.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 24, 2013, 08:05:21 AM
Thanks ---one sure had trouble telling what it was otherwise  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Tman on September 24, 2013, 09:00:34 AM
Looking good Sparky :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: joea on September 24, 2013, 02:00:58 PM
take a breather...I for one am glad you have more time now....!!!....hate to see you rush to get your
goals...they are lofty.....now you can refine and infinitely check and recheck...etc...everything to the nth degree...


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 24, 2013, 03:18:47 PM
No rest for the weary lol Hopefully Sparky will say lets go to El Mirage on the 20th


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on September 24, 2013, 05:03:03 PM
If you think the engine compartment is crowded now, wait until the turbo's get installed.  :-o  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 24, 2013, 11:07:11 PM
no surely you jest---lol actually we are going to great length to build where we do not have may changes when we go turbos---NEARLY all of that is in the trans bay   :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on September 25, 2013, 12:15:49 AM
Things are looking great at the Sparky Garage!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 25, 2013, 08:18:14 AM
not great but better


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 27, 2013, 12:11:27 AM
Plumbing and wiring sure beats sheetmetal :-D :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 29, 2013, 07:18:19 AM
A mile stone of small sort  yesterday--- finally understood where the transfer pump wanted to be mounted, right side just below the fuel cell and in front of the mech. fuel pump---third attempt. This is the pump that moves the water from the radiator in a box back to the coolant storage tank.  We do this wen we warm up the eng so that we do not heat the cooling water.

 The right side of the car is getting filled up because I am trying to leave   the area in front of the dry sump pump open so that I can get a battery impact wrench in there to be able to spin it to prime the oiling system.  I still need to put hose clamps on a lot of this stuff.  Lots of hoses.  Then on to the oiling system---will need to make up a new intake hose for the dry sum pump---the Barnes is at the back of the pump the Moroso was close to the frt.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 29, 2013, 07:34:47 AM
more Cheetos  :-D

and the eng compartment from the left side looking forward


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 29, 2013, 07:37:57 AM
right side:
 upper metal hose fuel from pump to pressure regulator,
 ribbed hose is the coolant water from back of car to the radiator in a box,
upper blue hose, eng water from under the heater connection under the thermostat housing to the heat exchanger mounted in the dry sump tank, and the lower blue is the return going back to the heater return fitting on the water pump inlet
the rh black hose is from a bottom fitting on the radiator in a box to the inlet side of the transfer pump and then returns to the coolant tank at the rear of the car via a 3/4 inch hose.

the small stainless steel line is a fire nozzle supply line.

right side but lower shot angle

left side looking at the same stuff


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on September 29, 2013, 08:23:12 AM
The proverbial bag of snakes. :-D It looks good and if you're doing plumbing you must be close now. Great pics. Thanks Sparky.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: jdincau on September 29, 2013, 10:53:31 AM
I am trying to leave   the area in front of the dry sump pump open so that I can get a battery impact wrench in there to be able to spin it to prime the oiling system.
Sparky,
     Get an angle drive for the drill motor, less space in front needed.
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-angle-drill-attachment-with-keyless-chuck-92188.html
Jim


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 29, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Thank you Sir Jim --- will have one before the day is over  :-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 30, 2013, 12:23:43 AM
Well I did not get over to the Devils Workshop better known as "Harbor Freight" but I didn't sleep at the Holiday Inn either!!!!!!!!!!

But I did have an on again off again day in the shop getting a lot of small things DONE!!!!!! 

I should be able to put water in the eng. systems tomorrow-- and maybe the oil system also---Marty came by tonight and we worked on "nailing down" the shifter system to getting the slack out of it, so that you can get it in the right gear with out thinking about it!!  :?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on September 30, 2013, 01:00:12 AM
Maybe Tuesday we can put some fire in the pipes


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on September 30, 2013, 07:11:47 AM
Youse guys are starting to scare us!  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 30, 2013, 07:22:51 AM
Woke up---couldn't get back to sleep  went to the shop---started pouring water---lose fitting here lose fitting there got it down to one cold weeper---I tapped a hose barb connection to deep and I am going to have to drain a pull it out and use pipe thread sealant instead of  tape.  Also poured in two gallons of oil will have to go get the angle drive to prime the eng. oiling system.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stainless1 on September 30, 2013, 08:10:15 AM
Bill, think about getting an angle drill instead of an angle drive adapter.  It will be a lot handier in the long run. 

Keep up the good work.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on September 30, 2013, 09:21:41 AM
Sparky,, Stainless is  right on the angle drill, Home Depot or Lowes have them and you would be supprised how often you will us it. I have one Roybe and two air 90 deg. drills. I have two 90 deg. adapters as well and a pain to use in most cases. Keep up on the build and keep us posted. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on September 30, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
Sparky,, Stainless is  right on the angle drill, Home Depot or Lowes have them and you would be supprised how often you will us it. I have one Roybe and two air 90 deg. drills. I have two 90 deg. adapters as well and a pain to use in most cases. Keep up on the build and keep us posted. :cheers:

I'll second or third that also.  I've only primed small blocks with the distributor out and it takes a lot of power from a good higher power drill as you know.  I wonder if that HF adapter is up to it?


Congrats on all you guys are getting done,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 30, 2013, 12:47:28 PM
Thanks for the input guys---I will go to HD and check out their Rigid and down to "ole 5 time"  (MR 6 TIME  want-a-be)  place and check out his KOBALTs.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on September 30, 2013, 03:51:34 PM


Here Bill, found yer angle drilll........

(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/bent-drill-bit-17002045.jpg)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on September 30, 2013, 05:46:00 PM
LOL

checked out the battery powered angle drills at HD & Lowes--- all these guys had was 3/8" chuck--- I thought them too wimpy---I ended up buying a DeWalt 90 deg adapter.   After all and  made a VERY  ROOKIE mistake --   :-o   of not rechecking ALL fittings again----resulted in about a quart and a 1/2 on the floor from 3 not tight enough and 1 vent plug--- I left completely off in my excitement to see how it works.  My 18V Rigid works fine but a battery does not last very long under constant load.  :-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on October 01, 2013, 07:12:01 PM
My rigid don't last long any more either. :roll:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: joea on October 01, 2013, 07:32:24 PM
'''My... Rigid works fine but ...does not last very long under constant load..."...

"My rigid don't last long any more either"....

Goggles bent drill pic.....

geeze guys....may need a new sponsor..pill or something...

whatever..."keep it up" we want to see you get the job done...


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 02, 2013, 12:25:55 AM
Toward the end that you guys are trying to take this:
The name of this entry will be FPD  Racing
 female pleasure device   We are going to contact all of the battery manuf. about sponsship---with first right of refusal going to the "Enegerizer Bunny"

EverReady second, and Duracell last choice  there will be two batteries in the paint scheme.



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 02, 2013, 01:43:34 AM
Got lots done today!  I finished the fuel shut off system & several other small little things.  We are getting closer and closer to the real deal.  Need to   put brake fluid and bleed the system.  Will go through the fuel system and cut the final bolts to hold down the air scoop.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 02, 2013, 07:07:22 AM
Well my design and placement of "stuff" is no better than some car designers.  Yesterday I was having to remove some fuel lines to get to the clamp that holds down the shut off valve bracket.  I am willing to pay this price because, I now can build a "tray" this winter to hold the ECU on top of the radiator in a box and I have left enough room for the Data Logger in the bottom of the car where Edlebrock suggested installing it---that was planning on my part on the ECU  luck when the return pump didn't fit in the bottom.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 02, 2013, 11:57:34 PM
Well Andy and I spent the evening going over all the systems up front--- getting ready to reinstall the front nose


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on October 03, 2013, 12:20:01 AM
Sounds like its all coming together Sparky.
What was the logic for putting the logger down the bottom?, heat?

Thanks
jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 03, 2013, 12:34:15 AM
Jon the QuickData (mine is the advanced drag package) asks that it be installed in the bottom of the car on the center line for it has two G-meters that record linear and lateral Gs.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on October 03, 2013, 02:15:59 AM
Thanks Sparky, makes sense now.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on October 03, 2013, 11:46:28 AM
..it has two G-meters that record linear and lateral Gs.

Hope you record a lot of the former and none of the latter  :-),

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 03, 2013, 06:20:13 PM
LOL   I will settle for .25-.30 linear and hope for 0-.1 on the lateral for some reason just dancing around registers about .1 g


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on October 03, 2013, 07:35:10 PM
Bill;

After getting somewhat lost in Hawaii, Joline and I just joined the tech revolution by trading in our old cellphones for Motorola Droid Maxx smart phones. I had not realized when we bought them just how versatile they are.

For example, a Droid Maxx has a built-in 3-axis accelerometer, a 3-axis gyroscope, a barometric sensor, a magnetometer, a light sensor, and a good GPS. It even has a cell phone in there somewhere  :-D

There are a few apps available that allow the phone to log the data and export it to a spreadsheet. As an experiment, I put the phone on the center console of my truck and recorded the x,y,z accelerometer data while I drove into town; it plotted a nice graph of the drive data. At the same time I had it record GPS data showing the track superimposed on a map, max & min speed, distance travelled, and also plotted the speed & altitude vs time.

There is also an app that provides a nice big digital GPS speedometer readout. If you desire, it turns the display upside down so you can place it on your dash-- the display reflects off the windshield as a head-up display.

I think this is not a substitute for a full-fledged data acq system but what it does, it does very well!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 03, 2013, 09:36:12 PM
Neil,  As I understand it a lot of the "Tuner" crowd can program their ecu from their cell phones---most likely to get around the states that have real tuff  performance enhancement laws


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 03, 2013, 09:47:56 PM
just a nice strange day---in the shop by myself---got the throttle cable Nailed Down with a funky little block clamp  started putting ends on tach wires, water temps=---ect ect --- ground wires from the MSD to each head---re roouted the brake line so that I do not have to break the system if I need to pull the frt axle. getting the steering shaft absolute ---before I weld it up.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 03, 2013, 09:58:47 PM
Sounds like some serious progress being made over there. Good to hear.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 03, 2013, 10:29:23 PM
Frankie  I don't know how you could call the minor stuff I did all day long as serious---but it has to happen---lol

Well Tonight I thjink there may be hope for the MALE human  after all---what do we share in common with Lions---well we are the hunter-- killers of our spicies!!!!!!!! :-D

Tonight the Alpha Female of our pride contacted me about killing the Alpha cockroach that was intruding into her shower space---so one of the ever so few opportunities for me to "PROVE my WORTH" as the house husband.   I grabbed today's paper out of the recycle basket --rolled it up into a modern version of a club---and in best caveman tradition attacked---was successful   8-)  I proved my worth as defender of the realm --- therefore earned a signature on the next parts check---thank you Miss Linda---we males have so few occasions to demonstrate our being needed----lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 04, 2013, 08:54:40 AM
Today's objective: finish the steering and start back on with the nose piece---I am ready for this car to be RUNABLE


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on October 04, 2013, 09:41:26 AM
Good one Sparky. Here in Africa we have Cockroaches that hunt Lions!. :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 04, 2013, 09:50:25 AM
I meant in the last few days not just yesterday  :-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 04, 2013, 11:42:21 PM
again a strange productive day  :?   it was a bounce around the car day work on this work on that!!Andy and I should be able to get in 3 hours Saat. am---

John said he maybe able to come over Sun. for a while     







Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 05, 2013, 04:19:55 PM
Andy and I had a great productive time this AM  2 hours cleaning up and getting stuff out of the shop and  then we stuck the nose back on.  The fire sealant foam really stretched the skin round and tight around the tank bay---it was much harder getting the nose back on.  I hope to have another productive session late this afternoon.  Maybe John and I can get going on the canopy Sunday.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 05, 2013, 11:07:32 PM
Did get back  about 3 hours of tedious wiring and routing of wires  the eng is now done dash gauges  and GV excepted.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on October 06, 2013, 03:10:35 AM
Great progress there. You guys must be really enjoying yourselves on this. It shows.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 06, 2013, 08:55:08 AM
Several reinforcing moments coming up soon:

Firing it and running the all the systems

Loading it on the trailer for its first inspection and race

Passing inspection

Pulling up to the start line with its first (controlled) pass and the chute coming out

Others to (HOPEFULLY) come:

 first all out pass

 and maybe getting to go visit the MAYOR :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Milwaukee Midget on October 06, 2013, 10:59:26 AM
I must confess - I've let my reading on this one move to the back burner.

Then I called Sparky yesterday, and we chatted for a while, but he had to cut me short and get back to work on the car - Respectful of Andy's time and conscious of how those minutes can slip away.

This thing is turning into one very scary, no compromise, no bullshirt tank.

Carry on, Spark-o!  :cheers: 


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 06, 2013, 12:19:30 PM
MM  thanks for the kind words ---BUT I beg to differ--- its all about compromise---TB and I have chatted, emailed and talked on the phone about the compros  many times you balance the trade offs ease of building vs safety, ease of building vs aero, ---packaging packaging packaging---TB said this lakester is just an education preparing for a streamliner---I sure hope not.  LOL


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 06, 2013, 12:44:25 PM
It's time for Three Bills Bill to do the bizzo again, go mate, were all cheering you on  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 06, 2013, 06:48:09 PM
Tim Cox dropped a MSD plug wire tool off so that I can make up my 4.5" coil wire.  We partook and discussed getting our cars done for El Mo---him for Oct. and me for Nov.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 06, 2013, 06:56:22 PM
It's looking good, Sparky! I can't wait to see it again! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 06, 2013, 07:56:37 PM
Thanks guys

John came over today and we got the frt axle back in should be able to nail it down and a start aligning the wheels.  Then we started on the canopy---lots of clean up and fitment needed form all the "trama" its been through the HD gas struts have deformed the instrument panel . we will have to massage this thing to function :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 07, 2013, 02:13:28 PM
Wow  this comes under the heading of slot me now (when its built) or slot me when you are going over things for the umteeeenth time to check alignment or binding as i was checking the tranny mount---guess what its cocked so I will have to slot the cushion mount  hole or just drill the hole larger and use a heavy washer.  :-(


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 07, 2013, 11:44:08 PM
Tranny mount slotted and shimmed to the point that I am as happy as I hope Miss Liberty is going to be!!!!!!!!!!!  lots of ground wires done today---usually they are what will give one problems---so lots of time GROUNDING :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 08, 2013, 04:21:09 PM
Made up the solder end battery cables and wired the cut off switch  if I were to connect the battery everything but the panel gauges would work.  tedium tedium but slowly getting there.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 08, 2013, 04:47:41 PM
Keep at it, you'll get there. Are you going to make a new instrument panel out of thicker material?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 08, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
no  Frankie,  we just got a ratchet strap and pulled the sub frame back straight---I will reinforce and get gas struts that are not so strong.

Good omen  I actually thought about where are the transport tires :-o not there YET but much closer


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: lsrjunkie on October 09, 2013, 08:59:17 PM
Awesome Sparky! Looks like things are coming along nicely.  :cheers: The umpteen million little things that actually make everything work are the things nobody thinks about until it's time to do them. I can't begin to think about all the wiring and plumbing I have to do on my car!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 10, 2013, 05:30:26 PM
was able to get in 4 hours today  lots of little things but the biggie---i spent 2 plus hrs on the CANOPY--  It will now latch again---should be able to get started on the windows and fitment tomorrow!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 11, 2013, 04:00:35 PM
need to put windows in


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 11, 2013, 05:17:51 PM
Looking good. Gonna be ready for El Mirage?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 11, 2013, 09:20:39 PM
Could be but I am shooting for Nov.

Had a good day in the shop---long very trying process of continually adjusting and grinding to make sure the new latches work when closed the side panels are in and all is popped into place all that remains is to cut the windows and drill lots of holes for the 1/8" pops that will hold them in place.

# 8  cut the "starter-El Mirage" 120 deg windows, a nice side benefit is that the person outside can look
#9  down through them and confirm the latches are open/closed


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on October 12, 2013, 05:11:16 PM
Bill;

Pop riveting plastic windows into their frames might cause problems with cracking around the drilled holes. Plastic-- Plexiglas or Lexan-- expands much more than aluminum so it causes stress in the holes drilled in the plastic for the rivets. A better way, if you have the time to do it, is to use screws in holes in the plastic that are about 1/16" oversize to allow for the differential thermal expansion.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 13, 2013, 08:38:58 PM
Neil, I know you are correct---but I am taking the easy way out for now to see if I like this "Robbie the Robot" look  :-D  If I do I would like to make a lot of refinements.

Andy helped for 5 hours today helping to "TRIM" the windows to fit and I spent 3 hours getting it in after he had to leave on vacation for 2 weeks---thanks Andy

Well we have one side in and one to go

Under the heading of "2 steps back"  I am going to have to come up with a different arrangement with the lift struts. With the old front cage hoop the sub-frame pushed up against it and kept the struts from pushing the whole canopy back 1/2" inch or so.  Now we are going to have to put in some stops or change the pivot points.

Ohh by the way Dr. G you were most entertaining on the "BB---Boom Box" this afternoon while I was "pop riveting away"

PS  I am not going to fuel Miss LIBERTY until Andy gets back in 2 weeks.  We will know lots more about this stupid BHO lake shut down by then.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 13, 2013, 09:44:04 PM
 I hadn't seen the new canopy idea for some reason....wow, that evokes a whole heap of different things, 1st world war control towers on ships, the first airliners and also that Eagle on the Muppets.....

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060102004117/muppet/images/0/02/Sam02.jpg)

Frankie will have some more music for you soon....


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 13, 2013, 09:49:51 PM
hadn't seen the eagle before---lol

When I think of "THE EAGLE"  I think of   Eddie the eagle---the ski jumper from GB


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 13, 2013, 10:55:01 PM
.....especially this angle..

(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=43482;image)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stainless1 on October 13, 2013, 10:58:12 PM
Personally I think that angle looks absolutely sinister....

Can't wait to see it in person.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 13, 2013, 11:18:53 PM
Personally I think that angle looks absolutely sinister....

Can't wait to see it in person.  :cheers:

Yeah, it does. It couldnt be a more fitting rival for Seth's car :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on October 13, 2013, 11:33:36 PM
Well it's definitely different Sparky. Reminiscent of the Curtis Flying Boat of the 1920's.
What was the reason behind the design?
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on October 14, 2013, 12:19:01 AM
Well it's definitely different Sparky. Reminiscent of the Curtis Flying Boat of the 1920's.
What was the reason behind the design?
  Sid.


I'll take some of the heat on this.  Ruth and I were on our way home from Fl via CA and staying at Sparky's a year ago (2012) when at the time there was some hope to get to the salt that year.  The problem was how to come up with a canopy in short order that might work, at least for a while.  I kind of designed it with the thought the front is teardrop shaped, rounded, and the idea was to send the air down the sides of the car from the front of it.  I did a rough hammer form of the top and we put it on and I said don't be affraid to use some bondo  8-).

As PP says 'it isn't how you go into the air it is .....".

The pictures make it look much higher than it is.  Here is a picture that better showes its height....

(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=41591;image)


.. If I remember right it is about 5-6 inches.  Of course they have done a lot more with it since I was involved.

I think the plan is to run with it and make a decision after the car runs and also when there is more time to make something more traditional but still feel it isn't a bad design from the aero perspective.  With the front not being laid back the vision is not distorted like on some so you have a good view down track.

I feel it is hard sometimes to realize just how much time goes into these cars.  You can see a complete car with a slick body/canopy and just kind of think it happens somehow.  Summit Racing doesn't carry this stuff  :-),

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 14, 2013, 06:27:04 PM
Second side in, canopy done except for

UNDER the heading of "2 steps back"  I am going to have to come up with a different arrangement with the lift struts. With the old front cage hoop the sub-frame pushed up against it and kept the struts from pushing the whole canopy back 1/2" inch or so.


  Now we are going to have to put in some stops or change the pivot points.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on October 15, 2013, 01:21:24 AM
Well it's definitely different Sparky. Reminiscent of the Curtis Flying Boat of the 1920's.
What was the reason behind the design?
  Sid.


I'll take some of the heat on this.  Ruth and I were on our way home from Fl via CA and staying at Sparky's a year ago (2012) when at the time there was some hope to get to the salt that year.  The problem was how to come up with a canopy in short order that might work, at least for a while.  I kind of designed it with the thought the front is teardrop shaped, rounded, and the idea was to send the air down the sides of the car from the front of it.  I did a rough hammer form of the top and we put it on and I said don't be affraid to use some bondo  8-).

As PP says 'it isn't how you go into the air it is .....".

The pictures make it look much higher than it is.  Here is a picture that better showes its height....

(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=41591;image)


.. If I remember right it is about 5-6 inches.  Of course they have done a lot more with it since I was involved.

I think the plan is to run with it and make a decision after the car runs and also when there is more time to make something more traditional but still feel it isn't a bad design from the aero perspective.  With the front not being laid back the vision is not distorted like on some so you have a good view down track.

I feel it is hard sometimes to realize just how much time goes into these cars.  You can see a complete car with a slick body/canopy and just kind of think it happens somehow.  Summit Racing doesn't carry this stuff  :-),

Sum
No heat or criticism intended, just pure interest. I have no expertise to know how good or bad it will be in the air but it definately adds character.
My liner doesn't have the run of the mill look to it either. There will be a bunch of WTF-ing once we surface.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 15, 2013, 07:15:43 AM
Sid, My original plan was an ME 109 flat glass with a 4" vertical and 5" wide with the flat side panels twisting from vertical to body contour.  I really like Sum's design because it reminds me of the leading edge of a J3 Piper cubs wing.  I wanted to send some of the air down the sides instead of all over the top as Woody's CFD work showed a good bit of lift in the expected area of the transition point just behind my elbow in this pict.   only time and a wind tunnel will tell for sure.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 15, 2013, 02:36:35 PM
Made a metal run to SW steel  picked up a short piece of 1"x.120 dom for the base and a 2' X .75 x .188 dom for the vertical and several feet of 3/4" .083 square tubing for the  Tail Feathers.  This should be the last major fabrication piece.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on October 15, 2013, 03:22:07 PM
I love the look, it is so evocative of so many things,the Curtiss reference was spot on and if the cfd work showed lift in that area you have all the reasons you need. There'll be lots of photos of this car when it debuts, and a whole lot of "h.m.o.g's"


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Podunk on October 15, 2013, 06:41:17 PM
Sparky,
I think you should leave the cleekos the canopy on. Makes it look badass.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on October 15, 2013, 06:47:33 PM
Cleco's, the new vortex generators :-D
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 15, 2013, 07:31:28 PM
LOL   This thing will need no external vortex generator help--- it has enough overlaps, bumps, dents to disturb the air on its own :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 16, 2013, 10:09:32 PM
Well enough is almost enough.  I have been fighting Gas Struts for two days I installed to locating tabs late this afternoon in the hope that they can counteract the gas struts and let the canopy stay where it is should. More tomorrow.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 17, 2013, 12:10:52 PM
Paper dolls:
This is what my eyes would like to see:  11" tall with a 45 deg. leading edge---ie form

 but my gut tells me it should be more like the old car, a least 18" maybe 24"  tall and a steeper leading edge and all of it closer to the back of the car--- ie function


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on October 17, 2013, 12:15:16 PM
Do you think you will need that much tail, thats a lot of surface area in addition to the body. Just thinking cross winds. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 17, 2013, 07:50:30 PM
Glen, you have a very valid concern, I hope the cyl. body helps that.  As simple as I build the tail feathers I will be very easy to chop some off the top once I find out if this thing will run straight.
My other concern is the nose sticks out in front of the front axle.

 It will be actually 10" farther back than I had is yesterday.  I forgot the body skin extends 12" past the frame. 

I will mount it where the blue tape goes down to the frame and at the back of the frame.  It has to be very easily removeable so that we can get to the cooling tank.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on October 17, 2013, 09:57:03 PM
I'd be inclined to use thicker cardboard & wider tape, I heard it performs better in the wine tunnel.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 17, 2013, 10:46:30 PM
LOL  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on October 18, 2013, 10:30:51 AM
Sid, now you're getting to the root of the matter:

"I heard it performs better in the wine tunnel."  It must have been a Freudian slip.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on October 18, 2013, 10:14:10 PM
Not a slip!
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Stainless1 on October 19, 2013, 08:37:56 AM
Not a slip!
  Sid.

Of course not...  Freud knows everything performs better in the wine tunnel


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on October 19, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Not a sip!

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 23, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
whew---I have been waylaid by "life and honey dos" it amazing how much plumbing there is in ones life time to time!!  If all goes well should be back in the shop tomorrow  8-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on October 23, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Don't get me started on the "Honey Do". I feel for you man because today I had the honey do of a lifetime. It breaks the train of thought etc. :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 24, 2013, 10:54:03 AM
Honey dos are just a fact of life as we all know. Get 'em done and the wife is happy. Dont do them and there will hell to pay. Andy come back from vacation yet Bill?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: grumm441 on October 24, 2013, 05:44:16 PM
The honey dos' expand to fill my available time
G


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 24, 2013, 08:14:17 PM
The honey dos' expand to fill my available time
G

oh how true at times :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 27, 2013, 09:00:35 PM
John and I had a good day today, We got the canopy where it is useable, we installed the drivers compartment fire bottle, cleaned up several other loose ends.  Andy got back in town this afternoon in time to help tighten all the fittings on the brake system;  so   the brakes are now bled. 

Andy and I will do Dennys in the AM and start on the last sheet metal over and below the headers. 

Marty dropped by tonight---some paper dolls he may come by Monday PM


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on October 28, 2013, 09:11:41 AM
Sparky, you still planning on being at El Mirage on 11/09?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 28, 2013, 08:24:15 PM
YES SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  8-)


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on October 28, 2013, 11:04:28 PM
SPARKY I'll be with the 471 roadster.

See you there?  I hope.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 29, 2013, 06:56:04 AM
Like wise, I called Miler Mike last night and reserved some Dirty 2 dinner spots


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on October 29, 2013, 09:08:13 AM
Then I will see you there too.  I will be with the 9030 lakester.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 29, 2013, 10:32:24 AM
I better get busy and make sure I have a date with "Ms Liberty". Andy and I cut the new panels for the bottom and the 4 panels that the above and below the headers.  I will try to start cutting out for the headers and welding some tabs  today. Instruments and seat belts up front.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on October 29, 2013, 11:42:33 AM
Good luck Sparky!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on October 29, 2013, 11:50:34 AM
Like Frankie said.
 When will you have pics?.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 29, 2013, 11:46:27 PM
I had a good afternoon, working on the secondary chute systems.

 Andy came over tonight and we got the new bottom panel in.

 I will wire the gauges tomorrow and put in the belts, and order more springs for the  Dutzs fasteners. We are down to cutting and fitting the last four panels---above and below the headers and then double checking all the fittings, finish mounting the intake scoop  and -------------then the GAS!!!!!!!!
                                     


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 31, 2013, 12:41:12 AM
ran out of DZUS springs  getting the gauges in and checking fittings more of the same Thur. AM


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 31, 2013, 05:51:03 AM
I better get busy and make sure I have a date with "Ms Liberty". Andy and I cut the new panels for the bottom and the 4 panels that the above and below the headers.  I will try to start cutting out for the headers and welding some tabs  today. Instruments and seat belts up front.

OK, what is Ms Liberty?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 31, 2013, 08:30:16 AM
That is the name of my "F-105 tank" Wild Weasel" ---think Nose Art


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 31, 2013, 08:33:08 AM
Thanks Sparky-somehow I missed that!

Car is looking great! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 31, 2013, 08:57:09 AM
"Miss Liberty" was built with one thing in mind   :wink:   To show someone a good time    on the bed  :-o      Dry Lake Bed that is  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 31, 2013, 09:35:57 AM
"Miss Liberty" was built with one thing in mind   :wink:   To show someone a good time    on the bed  :-o      Dry Lake Bed that is  :-D

LMFAO! :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 31, 2013, 02:32:19 PM
Well all in all a good morning--- the electrical system is now partially hot:

 Cut off works, master works, Ign.  hot-- starter button works,   RAD in Box  cooling pump, works and no leaks, Transfer pump box water back to rear tank works--- two small leaks now stopped.  That just leaves the tach and water and oil press to wire and make up the connectors so that we can take canopy and strg. wheel off..woops forgot to mention the 22 gallons of distilled H2O


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on October 31, 2013, 02:33:36 PM
"Miss Liberty" was built with one thing in mind   :wink:   To show someone a good time    on the bed  :-o      Dry Lake Bed that is  :-D

Sparky now you sound like Doug Odom! "If you can't race it or take it to bed - it ain't worth having."  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on October 31, 2013, 03:30:57 PM
You see how Sparky's keeping us in suspense?. Not fair. We need pics. :-D Nose art too.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 31, 2013, 03:40:18 PM
Sparky, whay is the 22 gallons of distilled H2O for?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on October 31, 2013, 05:47:35 PM
I run distilled water in everything --so the heat will not cause mineral deposits anywhere --they inhibit heat transfer


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on October 31, 2013, 06:14:40 PM
No mineral deposits to deal with, but I though distilled water caused more corrosion, due to the water trying to 'balance' itself, and leaching minerals from all of the metal?


I think deionized water is worse, if I remember correctly.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 01, 2013, 11:35:05 PM
I had a good day  John came over for 3 hours and we got  the drive line fluids verified and ready to go.  I wired gauges and stuff of and on most of the day---guys I will post picts when I have something worth posting  Miss Liberty may soon start working on her tan  Maybe Sunday--if all goes well we can fire her :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 02, 2013, 06:10:49 AM
Woohoo!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on November 02, 2013, 07:52:33 AM
Yes, yes, yes. Go Sparky. I can't wait to see it!. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 03, 2013, 12:58:34 AM
High Noon    11-03-2013


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on November 03, 2013, 01:17:12 AM
Video or it never happened!   :mrgreen:

Mike


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 03, 2013, 09:59:55 AM
VIDEO  :-o We will try  :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 03, 2013, 08:28:28 PM
Well we lost at least 2.5 hours today trying to find a 2 5/16 electrical water guage  but at high Noon we stopped a got going on trying to fire up Ms Liberty.. about 1:15 Az time e put fuel in and ran our batt almost down before I figured out that I turned on the Master but not the Ign.---lol  chared up the battery and opened my can of ERC fuel and but in 5 gallons for a total of 8 to get it over the mech. fuel pump. Almost ran the batt.  down again before we checked to see if-- I had made the rookie mistake of----You guess it---180 out!!!!!!  took the carb plate off to get to the dist. got a squirt bottle for fuel and  WHAM BAM Thank YOU Ms Liberty she fired and after about 6 seconds I checked the fuel pressure  12 PSI ---T- handle and a small  twisted her back to 7.5 and she settled down--- all the checking and rechecking of the lines and hoses paid off two small leaks one on the rear carb. feed and the other on a return water line!!!!!!

Many thanks to Andy & John for a great day and to my neighbor RIP, his brother Jim, and James to helping clear my back yard so that I can get Miss Liberty LOADED on Wed.


We have video--- if I can figure our how to post on You tube!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Podunk on November 03, 2013, 08:43:40 PM
Congrats Sparky!!!!! I can almost hear it from here. Can't wait 'till August. :cheers:

Terry


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on November 03, 2013, 09:10:18 PM
Sparky, good job. Make a easy check out pass on the dry lake, I am off to SEMA tomorrow with the Turbinator II. Sure looks like a great show.

Glen   :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on November 03, 2013, 10:05:24 PM
ALL RIGHT!!! Way to go!
Can't wait to see the video!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: PorkPie on November 04, 2013, 06:00:11 AM
Sparky,

congrats...you be in the 100 Pages Club :cheers:

Have a great one at Elmo


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on November 04, 2013, 06:23:57 AM
&$&%#&$+&#%#+@?+#?+ YEAH!!!!!!*!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on November 04, 2013, 06:52:04 AM
Sparkeeeeey! Nice one. Congrats. Great stuff. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on November 04, 2013, 07:24:38 AM
Great job Sparky, wish I couldve been there to see it. Good luck at EM this weekend, be safe.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 04, 2013, 08:20:56 AM
Thanks Guys,  We have to finish the right side lower panel and the one like it on the other side.  Lots of small things will try to load the car Wed afternoon or Th  then  a set of hand tools and  more.  It has never had all the panels on at once on the ground on its wheels.  I am looking forward to seeing what it looks like.

Sumner will be through town on the 24th and will help me determine the future body work.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on November 04, 2013, 08:33:30 AM
Go Sparky Go!

Thanks for taking time out of your day Saturday to chat with me. It's always  entertaining and informative!

Good luck at El Mirage! :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on November 04, 2013, 09:36:03 AM
Buddy, is that the new paint scheme?????.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on November 04, 2013, 10:00:50 AM
Buddy, is that the new paint scheme?????.

Yep, that's the new comp coupe configuration. Altered looks the same as in the past.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 04, 2013, 12:54:33 PM
Great news to hear that your car makes noise on it's own, Sparky.  Corngratulations on getting this far - and best wishes for the rest of the fun of getting the WW ready to go down the race track. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 05, 2013, 08:26:12 AM
Thanks guys---the final 3 day thrash is on:
 Marty tweaked on a few tank patches with the tig and grinder
I worked on electrical and water yesterday --ran the eng for 25 min to get some heat in the oil and water  will bring it up to 195 again to day then change the oil water and run the valves before John and I finish loading on Thursday afternoon.

I have some minor electrical stuff and 9 point safety harness and a gauge to install then round up the race wheels and tires with wheel disc.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: wheelrdealer on November 05, 2013, 11:06:53 AM
Sparky

Good luck at El Mo.

38 Flattie:

Love the new look. The Comp Coupe looks fast sitting still.


BR


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on November 05, 2013, 09:13:25 PM
I can't wait to see Ms. Liberty this weekend.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on November 06, 2013, 08:42:35 PM
it's good to hear the mill has fired.

bf262


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 06, 2013, 10:59:09 PM
she's almost ready for the trailer

For your info:  the trailer tires are 235/75R15s make it ride about 3" higher in the front and an 1" in the rear.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 06, 2013, 11:03:25 PM
Francis and John are coming by tomorrow to help load Ms. LIBERTY for her coming out party at El M  it has a long time coming. 

She has lots of warts and she will be no beauty queen to most people---

 but as I have said most of my life   " It is all about performance, when the sun goes down and the lights are out--Performance is all that counts."  wmts'64

See you on the dirt and the salt


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on November 07, 2013, 12:26:58 AM
That was worth waiting for. Thanks Sparky.

She looks good but most of all you built her and put her on wheels.

I'm happy for you.
Ms. Liberty already has "character" and that's what counts.
I hope you have lots of fun together.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 07, 2013, 12:38:02 AM
Congrats,  you guys have done well and Ruth even noticed the shop looks cleaner  8-),

Sum and Ruth


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 07, 2013, 07:20:19 AM
Thanks to Andy for the shop sweep----plasma cutters and flapper wheeling  the header fitment made lots of Alum dust.  Today changing the oil, reworking one of the pilot chute windlass a massaging a canopy panel  then on to the trailer!!!!!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on November 07, 2013, 07:30:32 AM
Sparky, it looks great! Congrats on getting it where you can get it teched!

I have 2 questions, as I'm still learning. Are you going to put inner disc on the front and rear tires? Will there be any 'faring' or anything over the front axles, or will they run as they are?

I can't wait to see this car again in person!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on November 07, 2013, 07:53:19 AM
bill,
good luck on the maiden voyage.

franey


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 07, 2013, 08:20:27 AM
Buddy, over time--lots of things should happen--need to happen.  Starting with cleaning up the eng. bay,  being FIRST. It has lots that need addressing exhaust,  hood scoop body junction, the whole area has lots of over laps ect ect. With the turbos we will need traction enhancements, in the form of more down force.

The first thing is a new rear axle and clean this one up and a gear change for El M only. I plan on making the new rear axle much wider and definitely will have some enhancements for it.

The canopy construction is CRUDE but I want to see how this one Works and how it Tuffs before I tackle its replacement.

 Lots going on in my life right now. I am going to have to see how some of it plays out before I make many more plans for enhancing & "Racing Ms. Liberty".


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 07, 2013, 08:29:33 AM
Franey, will you be at El M?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on November 07, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
Franey, will you be at El M?

unfortunately, no.
I would love to see the car again and watch it run.
it looks great

say hello to Mrs. Sparky for Diane and I.

Bf262


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 07, 2013, 10:53:57 AM
Will do


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on November 07, 2013, 01:18:14 PM
Looks good all buttoned up and on the ground Sparky. Cant wait to hear how the maiden voyage goes.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on November 07, 2013, 01:57:37 PM
Congratulations Sparky.

Good luck at Elmo.

jon


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Peter Jack on November 07, 2013, 02:38:25 PM
Good luck Sparky! Take along a photographer. It's too hard to take pictures and run the operation, including driving, at the same time.  :roll: :roll: :-D

Pete


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on November 07, 2013, 04:25:54 PM
Go Sparky Go! Time to get down [and a little dirty]!  :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on November 07, 2013, 06:29:59 PM
Great job Sparky, wish I could be at Elmo to see the first run.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 07, 2013, 11:43:52 PM
Well guys  the Burb is loaded & Ms Liberty is on the bed waiting to have some FUN (trailer bed  that is).

 She has her first date this weekend and tonight is her first night out!!!  I suspect she is going to stay out all night--(brazen Hussy) that she is just itichingb  to get on another bed---Lake Bed.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on November 08, 2013, 12:01:49 AM
If you need me, I have a camera with me.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 08, 2013, 12:11:58 AM
If you need me, I have a camera with me.

FREUD

He needs you  :-).  Take a telephoto full side view from some distance so we can work on the car's center of pressure point.  Thanks and also have a great time  :-)

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Jon on November 08, 2013, 04:34:29 AM
If you need me, I have a camera with me.

FREUD

He needs you  :-).  Take a telephoto full side view from some distance so we can work on the car's center of pressure point.  Thanks and also have a great time  :-)

Sum

And a roll of yarn and sticky tape :0


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 09, 2013, 01:07:05 AM
I talked to Sparky earlier in the evening.  They have a couple things that need addressed on the car but believe they can handle them and still get a chance to run the car.  He sounded real good about it  and I'm sure he is excited.  I am and would be,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 10, 2013, 02:02:58 AM
They got the leg restraint issue taken care of and moved the main elect. shutoff to the extreme rear of the car and were signed off to run up to 150 and are also suppose to deploy both chutes.  They hope to get in at least one run on Sunday.  They say the weather has been great there,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: jl222 on November 10, 2013, 11:53:13 AM
They got the leg restraint issue taken care of and moved the main elect. shutoff to the extreme rear of the car and were signed off to run up to 150 and are also suppose to deploy both chutes.  They hope to get in at least one run on Sunday.  They say the weather has been great there,

Sum

  Is Sparky a rookie at El Mirage? Sounds like a typical rookie 1st pass. I think they have a rookie line where they don't have to start from end of line because of lack of points.

  Go SPARKY... but be ready for the marbles :-D

                     JL222


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on November 10, 2013, 12:05:03 PM
Sparky is not new mto the lakes, has been over 200 mph. Sold that car and built the new one,, new car check out and driver to learn the car as well. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 10, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
Sparky is not new mto the lakes, has been over 200 mph. Sold that car and built the new one,, new car check out and driver to learn the car as well. :cheers:

Yep he is in EM 200 mph club.  Also Andy, his next door neighbor and co-car builder, is going to probably be the driver.  I think Andy has at least his A license at B'ville and maybe his AA driving the old car there.  I haven't heard from him today but John you are right about the other line and he said they would try and get out there this morning and try and get in that line and might be able to run from that line and later from the regular line.  

From what he said they were part way through the second round yesterday but didn't finish it before the meet was shut down.  Hopefully they will finish that this morning and if there is enough time drivers if they want might be able to go a third round.  Since the car is new and has no points he is at the back of the line.

I need to go, but maybe someone can take time to explain the differences in how you run on points at EM vs. just getting in line at b'ville for those that don't know,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: desotoman on November 10, 2013, 01:41:12 PM
I talked to Sparky earlier in the evening.  They have a couple things that need addressed on the car but believe they can handle them and still get a chance to run the car.  He sounded real good about it  and I'm sure he is excited.  I am and would be,

Sum

Sum,

Here is the crew hard at work fixing what needed to be addressed.

Tom G.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on November 10, 2013, 03:07:40 PM
Looks like fun, wish I was there


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 01:12:42 PM
Tom, Stan B and all who dropped by---thanks I hope my hospitality manners were not to frayed.

Tom thanks for posting--you took the pict. that captures the two MAJOR things that we missed.

1.  I am  on the ground working on getting the leg restraint installed:  I marked it a 1 1/2 years ago and never drilled the holes---  thanks to O'Rileys $15.95 lap belt kit and borrowing a step drill from Bill Ward's team we got that handled.
2.  Andy and Marty  worked on the battery disconnect (hat is John looking over Andy's shoulder
-- I had completely missed the rule change about the cut offs needing to be at the ends of the cars. 

All in all a good first "date" for Ms Liberty.  She and I  have some visibility issues starting with major fogging inside of Andy helmet visor. The next race possible is May of 14 at EL M.

We won a BLM season pass to El Mirage at the El M 200 Banquet Sat. Night---so I guess we will have to go back. :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on November 11, 2013, 01:41:13 PM
"We won a BLM season pass to El Mirage at the El M 200 Banquet Sat. Night---so I guess we will have to go back."

Of course you'd never have even thought of returning to EM if it weren't for that free pass, would you?  Corngratulations on getting the car to the dirt and inspection, Sparky. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 01:45:51 PM
lol  busted  :-D

thanks John  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: desotoman on November 11, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
Tom, Stan B and all who dropped by---thanks I hope my hospitality manners we not to frayed.

Tom thanks for posting--you took the pict. that captures the two MAJOR things that we missed.

1.  I am  on the ground working on getting the leg restraint installed:  I marked it a 1 1/2 years ago and never drilled the holes  thanks to O'Rileys $15.95 lap belt kit and borrowing a step drill from Bill Ward's team we got that handled.
2.  Andy and Marty are working on the battery disconnect -- I had completely missed the rule change about the cut offs needing to be at the ends of the cars. 

All in all a good first "date" for Ms Liberty.  She and I  have some visibility issues starting with major fogging inside of Andy helmet visor. The next race possible is May of 14 at EL M.

We won a BLM season pass to El Mirage at the El M 200 Banquet Sat. Night---so I guess we will have to go back. :-D

Hi Sparky,

Your Welcome. It was nice to finally meet you. Your manners were excellent even though you were quite busy when I came by, and that is why I did not say much, as you had a racecar to attend to, which IMO is the priority. I hope I did not get in the way. I have some other pictures of Miss Liberty but don't have time to post them now, so I will later today.

Tom G.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 03:02:55 PM
Tom---I am starting to see why so may people tell me to take a designated camera person one does get very busy looking after a race car---I think I took one or two---I am sere looking  forward to seeing your post Tom.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on November 11, 2013, 04:17:48 PM
Sparky, without pix you are just another urban LSR legend!  :-D :-D
Wish I coulda been there! But then I wouldn't have taken any pictures either!
Woody


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 05:32:40 PM
Well sir you may be a prophet- :-o -- from where we could see in the push truck the car seem to gain a rooster tail as it picked up speed.  We will be building a rounded detachable under tail to replace the present flat one. One pass observations do not make fact  :roll:  with out VIDEO comparisons of others   :-P


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dynoroom on November 11, 2013, 06:14:35 PM
Here ya go Woody....

you too Sparky. Good to see you and chat a bit.



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on November 11, 2013, 07:25:42 PM
6 months for that ever growing to do list.

looks really nice.

Bf


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 08:00:10 PM
BF
working on that already--Andy and I had a great debrief this afternoon

1. Helmet ventilation
2. A push pull electrical cut off
3. Rear axle modifications 2.73 gears for El Mo
4. change the frt axle combo to take the camber out of the frt     
    tires--bow legged looking tires bother me for some reason


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 08:22:21 PM
Does anyone have picts of the chute deployment or the car down track that the can share ---thanks


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 11, 2013, 08:49:11 PM
Oh by the way  :wink:  "the beauty" sent their spy out   :-o under the cover story of watching Jeanie in her quest for the  MC points championship.
 He dropped by the pits to checkout the new beast--- Ms Liberty --
but I kept my eye on him and he didn't pull his spy camera out  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: desotoman on November 11, 2013, 09:12:52 PM
Sparky,

Don't know if these pictures will do you any good as I took them while you were working on the car. For a chute deployment shot, you might try the SCTA site in the results section, under pictures look for Stewart Harnick pictures as he takes shots from the finish line area.

Tom G.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 12, 2013, 08:42:41 AM
Found the camera

0 5  the goal
At the start line for the 1st time
06 07 08   Ms. Liberty    " the tool"
 to hopefully reach the goal


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on November 12, 2013, 08:53:51 AM
Way to go Sparky. You finished the build and made to the meet. That in itself is a win.

She looks good, reminds me of a fighter ready to taxi out on a desert airbase.

Great stuff, wish you and all the guys a safe run and return drive. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: gkabbt on November 12, 2013, 09:05:20 AM
Sparky, BIG congrats on getting the car finished and running at Elmo!

Car looks GREAT on the dirt and I REALLY love the dirty Elmo 200 hat pic!
 :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:

Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Finallygotit on November 12, 2013, 09:12:43 AM
Congrats Sparky!!  :cheers:  Way to go!

For some reason, in person, Miss Liberty seemed smaller than I expected.  :|


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on November 12, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
THe car always looked big in the shop but now that its out in the open with the nose on it, you really get to see how truly long it is. Great job Sparky, Andy, Joey, Marty and everybody else who pitched in to get Miss Liberty done and out to the track this year.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 12, 2013, 11:27:38 AM
That is because she is still a Ms and not a Mrs.   just a SALOB  :-o

We are working hard to keep her skinny and sleek track person not a field person -- a sprinter not a weighty shot putter  :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: azgearhed on November 12, 2013, 11:59:17 AM
We made it home Sparky-and I brought the drivers suit and helmet with me. :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 12, 2013, 12:11:41 PM
another had shot in frt of another much smaller lakester's frt.  tire


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on November 12, 2013, 05:03:08 PM
Sparky,
The narrow "Top Fuel" tire which is a 2.5 x 17 Goodyear part number 808-102-089, as I understand, is limited to a max of 200 mph, although I have seen many of them run over 250 at the Salt. I do not know what the SCTA/Goodyear speed limit is on the new "Top Fuel" tire, 4 x 17 Goodyear part number  808-130-089 which is about an inch wider but still is made to fit a 17 x 2.5 wheel. Either one is a lot better than what you have on the front now.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 12, 2013, 06:20:43 PM
You are right Rex  I have seen several of the real light MC eng lakesters with these on the frt end  I was in line during the hold and was walking around and saw this small light dragster-lakester with those on the frt.  I started drooling, then decided to put my cap down for scale--- :cry:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on November 12, 2013, 08:19:15 PM
Good to see you get a run under your belt Mate, been a lot of work to get here. :cheers:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 12, 2013, 11:14:58 PM
Sid you are so right..

I hope to be much better prepared for the May meet.  We have a lot of tweaks but nothing like finishing from scratch.   We now know what all we have to deal with and it appears that  she likes to go where you point her --according to Andy---that is nice to know


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on November 13, 2013, 01:26:32 AM
Yeah, that's usually pretty handy.
You planning on hanging the "hair dryer" back on there?
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 13, 2013, 08:26:47 AM
Sid,  I have some, what I hope to be minor helmet venting issues, to solve.  I then plan to change the axle & gearing for to more suitable for El M, install the intercooler, and turbos for more rear end weight but run NA at El M until we get the car sorted out then-- go play with the turbos at B'Ville.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on November 13, 2013, 10:19:37 AM
I have a new helmet blower sitting on the shelf that I'm not using. I would gladly donate it to your cause if you can use it.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 13, 2013, 01:01:59 PM
Thanks Sid for your offer-- Andy has one also  let us see if we can use his system and his helmet  we may be calling


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 13, 2013, 08:35:52 PM
.... I do not know what the SCTA/Goodyear speed limit is on the new "Top Fuel" tire, 4 x 17 Goodyear part number  808-130-089 which is about an inch wider but still is made to fit a 17 x 2.5 wheel.... Rex

I can't find that tire by that part number using Google.  If you go to the Goodyear site here....

http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/pdf/Drag_010313.pdf

....is it the 2904 on page 3 of that document?

Thanks,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Rex Schimmer on November 14, 2013, 03:06:46 PM
um,
Yes it is the 2904 which is the front tire that Top Fuel has been running for the last 2-3 years. As I said I am not sure what the speed rating is, I do know that the older tire had a life of about 4-6 seconds on the rim at 275 mph.

Rex


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on November 14, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
um,
Yes it is the 2904 which is the front tire that Top Fuel has been running for the last 2-3 years. As I said I am not sure what the speed rating is, I do know that the older tire had a life of about 4-6 seconds on the rim at 275 mph.

Rex
That might not be long enough for Sparky! :roll:
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on November 14, 2013, 06:35:17 PM
Sum, yes the 2904 is the 17 x 4 inch Frontrunner the TF cars are using. Back in about '06 they were finding with the narrower 3 inch Frontrunner at 310+ the tires were starting to blister and chunk rubber. Since moving to the 4 inch tire and creating a larger contact patch they have resolved the problem


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on November 14, 2013, 07:26:05 PM
Sum, yes the 2904 is the 17 x 4 inch Frontrunner the TF cars are using. Back in about '06 they were finding with the narrower 3 inch Frontrunner at 310+ the tires were starting to blister and chunk rubber. Since moving to the 4 inch tire and creating a larger contact patch they have resolved the problem

Thanks,

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 16, 2013, 08:31:32 PM
Well we are on to plan "B"  the vent system on Andy's helmet will not clear our "shoulder pads" but his G force helmet works much better with its "visor opening" on to working on using it.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 17, 2013, 08:56:45 PM
Henderson North Carolina  ---does anyone live near there?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Captthundarr on November 18, 2013, 06:19:59 PM
There are some ECTA guys that are fairly close. I'm about 3.5hrs one way.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 18, 2013, 06:21:58 PM
Thanks Cap'n T  going another way thanks


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: gkabbt on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 AM
Henderson North Carolina  ---does anyone live near there?

Sparky, If you decide on the Henderson, NC thing let me know as I'm only about 1 hour away.
Can't help you this week as my wife and I are on a Caribbean cruise. We get back home next Monday afternoon and will be available then.

Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Buickguy3 on November 19, 2013, 10:54:46 AM
    Is it one of those cruises where you sail out and they tow you home? Just kidding.
   :evil: Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: gkabbt on November 19, 2013, 02:48:54 PM
    Is it one of those cruises where you sail out and they tow you home? Just kidding.
   :evil: Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

LOL! Not yet but we still have 5 days left!   :-D  :-D

Gregg


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 27, 2013, 11:46:44 AM
We have taken the rear axle out. I will strip the Camaro axle for its trip to Texas to get its new Ford 9" outer bearing ends, new axles and find some more Ford Big drum brakes with thee 5x5 bolt pattern. this will give Ms Liberty a wider stance and a second rear axle.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on November 27, 2013, 02:54:25 PM
"Wider stance". It didn't feel right going into turn one at Elmo? :-D
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 27, 2013, 03:16:15 PM
Sum and Ruth dropped by for a few days and he helped me shuffle my "yard art".  John and Andy helped us with the car on Sunday afternoon.

Sum went home with a 7.5" Torsen to go with the 2.28 gear set he got from me 2 years ago.  He should have his tranny by the time he gets home


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 27, 2013, 03:18:22 PM
Sid I have been to that movie at El MO  do not want to do it again.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Glen on November 27, 2013, 03:27:49 PM
Sparky , why drum brakes, I would prefer disks at El Mo. Drum brakes can fade pretty fast at speed and disk parts are easier to get. Just my thoughts. Have a Happy Thanskgiving and give your wife a hug for me. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 29, 2013, 09:06:33 PM
AERO


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on November 30, 2013, 04:26:43 PM
next step:  We will relocate the fuel pressure regulator an reroute the fuel lines so that we have room for the ECU mounting bracket, change the battery cut off, and mount the data logger in the bottom of the car between the eng and the tank bay.  When we get the NA eng where it will fire and run then we will pul it and start back with the turbo stuff.  Our plan is to get the turbo eng where it will fire and run ASAP so that we can .  We can idle the eng for 15-20 min with out getting above 200 F.  This will let us run all the pumps and such and data log.  we can get a leg up on all this stuff (hopefully  :-P )


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 20, 2013, 11:10:25 AM
Just got back from Tx.  lots to do-- picked up a goose neck trailer that had been hit in the sides- over all I have a hitch and 2 good axles --will  redesign and lengthen it an make a designated race car hauler/storage  out of it so that I can repossess  my shop floor space---lots to do in 2014.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 25, 2013, 08:55:55 AM
have spent several hours with the trailer---off and on with a tape measure---am starting to get an idea of what needs to be done the frame has been bent  the rear is off by about a foot. Looks like the best way to fix this thing is cut all the cross pieces out and get the main rails straight and to the length that I want then start back with the upper rails and the floor joists. Will also most likely relocate the dolly jack so the winch line can pull straight down the center of the trailer floor.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kiwi belly tank on December 25, 2013, 11:00:04 AM
Recycling a trailer, that's what us poor racer's do! :cheers:
My trailer was a 32ft long tag for hauling well casings.
  Sid.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Freud on December 25, 2013, 06:35:05 PM
As if he isn't busy enough, Treit is outfitting a new support trailer.

Korey stripped out the old one and now they are building a new bigger one.

Trailers........Ya. Another axle and that means more tires.

They are considering microphones to listen for blowouts.

The electronic age is replacing rear view mirrors.

Maybe I didn't get that exractrilly rite.

FREUD


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on December 25, 2013, 11:49:53 PM
I wish  :-D.
Never owned a trailer.

I borrowed a bunch though.

You can always judge a racer's budget on what trailer he has.
NASCAR comes to mind. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 26, 2013, 10:01:52 AM
NASCAR will not come to mind when you see mine  :cry: lol


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Podunk on December 26, 2013, 06:31:58 PM
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on December 26, 2013, 11:40:59 PM
I'm getting a closed truck trailer to transport the liner when the time comes.
Got a truck owner who said he'd get us to the venue and back if we get a trailer.

I don't have anything strong enough to pull a trailer of the size needed and where does one store it when it's not being used.

When I started out in F2 I found a sponsor who built trailers. The guy outdid himself. He built a box called Columbia because it looked like the Space Shuttle.
It had space for two cars and about a hundred tires. The BMW I used to tow with was boiling after 15 miles.  :-D :-D :-D


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on December 29, 2013, 10:59:27 PM
Well got back in the shop today for a while---started taking out the fuel system between the pump and the carb---will have to reroute to get the room we need for the ecu/data logging box


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 03, 2014, 08:30:48 PM
Brown Santa came by today and dropped of a new battery and alt. cut off switch today ---tomorrow I will mount it and measure the length for the cable that then will run to the back of the car to comply with the rules. Will pull out the solenoid that died at El M and get it warrantied ---.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 05, 2014, 11:40:26 PM
Got my 1/4" square pad out today and drew  to scale what my newly configured trailer will look like---moving the axles back one set of holes an started a materials list and started searching.  Will have most of the needed stuff, I will have to buy some heavy 3"x4"x 1/4' angle to extend the trailer frame 8'  and a some other smaller angle for the floor joist. The old boat trailer will save me a ton, for it has the 4" and 3" channel to build the new verticals between the upper rail and the frame.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 08, 2014, 07:04:21 AM
Andy, and I had a great "BingeE" session last night working on the placement of the ECU, Battery cut off relocation and fuel lines.  We will have some MAJOR wire issolation/containment to deal with!! :-o


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on January 08, 2014, 07:23:02 AM
Gee Sparky, you're a busy guy but it all sounds like cool stuff.

Enjoy it brother. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 13, 2014, 12:03:20 AM
OPEN HOUSE  Monday afternoon 3-7:00 pm

Linda and I will be hosting an open house of sorts hosting Rob, Brandon, and crew of the Carbinite Streaamliner---car will be present---for an overnight stay on their way to LA Roadster show---come on come all just give me a heads up please so that I will know how much STUFF to get for beer and burgers.

Sparky
602-762-2211
sparky.2211@cox.net
3402 E Libby st.
Phoenix


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: tauruck on January 13, 2014, 01:02:33 AM
Good on you man.

I wish I was closer. :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on January 13, 2014, 06:45:49 PM
Darn I guess I shouldve checked in sooner, that wouldve been cool to see.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 13, 2014, 07:21:37 PM
My BAD---the date is MONDAY Jan 20th---next Monday  3:00 to 7:00 pm food 4 to 7----as they are going to the LA roadster show they have to be there by Noon Wed.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 19, 2014, 11:33:16 PM
Aero  Doug Robinson and Marty came down today to help clean up the shop and make it safe to walk around my shop and we shuffled  the cars and trailers in the back yard.. Rob can now get his trailer back theere.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: saltwheels262 on January 20, 2014, 08:49:50 PM
everybody should be having a good time about now.
wish I was there.

don't forget about the speed bumps on your way out.

Bf262


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on January 20, 2014, 09:25:58 PM
As I said on Buddy's spark plug thread -- wish we could have been there.  I hope you all had a fine time.  See you in Pomona. :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on January 21, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
Sparky, do you have a sloppy joe/beer count for us?  :?

16° here and dropping!  :-( See all you all in Pomona!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 21, 2014, 11:03:19 AM
The only thing we ran out of was time and Linda's Deviled Eggs..

Party broke up at 10:30  Rob and crew pulled out of her a little after 8:00 mst headed  for LA. Sorry that I didn't get to say hello to all be t meet several new folks.  Thanks to all who attended Linda and I sure enjoyed being host.



Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: manta22 on January 21, 2014, 11:13:17 AM
Bill;

Sorry I couldn't make it-- sounds like everyone had a good time.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on January 21, 2014, 11:43:30 AM
The only thing we ran out of was time and Linda's Deviled Eggs..

Party broke up at 10:30  Rob and crew pulled out of her a little after 8:00 mst headed  for LA. Sorry that I didn't get to say hello to all be t meet several new folks.  Thanks to all who attended Linda and I sure enjoyed being host.

Had an awesome time at Sparky and Linda's! Met a bunch of super nice people. Learned a lot and shared a lot. Talked race cars, race trucks, and politics. Got to see the lakester and all Sparkys tous. Got a fantastic night sleep. Sparky and Linda are just awesome hosts. Thanks to them and everybody that showed up!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: superleggera on January 21, 2014, 11:51:31 AM
Thanks Sparky for hosting!  Good to meet and talk with some of the LSR folks in Arizona, visit your place and see your lakester as well as Rob's Carbinite streamliner.  It would be fun to do again in a few months and I can host down at my shop in Gilbert if needed.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on January 21, 2014, 11:59:10 AM
Great idea   :cheers: we should have a 3-4 times a year get to gather here in the VALLEY of us 'zonies


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Sumner on January 21, 2014, 07:17:51 PM
Great idea   :cheers: we should have a 3-4 times a year get to gather here in the VALLEY of us 'zonies

How about us 'non-zonies', can we come to  :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sounds like you guys had a great time.  Ruth and I have know about how good of hostesses Bill and Linda are for some time  :-)

Sum


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: azgearhed on January 21, 2014, 07:33:57 PM
Thanks for the party and all you and Linda did-I didn't expect the streamliner-that was special, See you at the GNSR.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: jpm49c on January 21, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
Thanks Sparky and Linda! Had a Great time.  Rob's Carbinite streamliner was something to see. Thanks everyone!  John


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on February 20, 2014, 01:53:22 PM
Any progress being made over there?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Dr Goggles on February 20, 2014, 01:58:28 PM
Any progress being made over there?

He's too busy on the internet stirring us up. :evil:


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: Frankie7799 on February 20, 2014, 04:31:09 PM
He's too busy on the internet stirring us up. :evil:[/quote]

LOL I dont get over there anymore and I hadnt seen any updates so I figured Id ask. You guys will have the SoS here for SW correct Dg.G?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: grumm441 on February 20, 2014, 06:11:01 PM

LOL I dont get over there anymore and I hadnt seen any updates so I figured Id ask. You guys will have the SoS here for SW correct Dg.G?

Errrr
unlikely
G


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on March 08, 2014, 11:10:58 AM
I have been back from Tx for over a week and I still haven't been able to unload the re-geared "El Mirage" axle---have been under the weather with a flu like bug.  Maybe Sunday I will feel up to it.. May's El M meet will be here sooner than we THINK!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: robfrey on March 23, 2014, 08:16:06 AM
Any progress lately? Please tell Linda the Pennsylvania guys all said "Hi"!
Anything we can help with?


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 02, 2014, 10:30:05 AM
lots going on besides working on the car

Skip Pipes came by to visit ---geez I couldn't believe it to LSR guys pondering air and what it does and how we can TRY influence it!!

He is excited that if all goes well he will be on the dirt in MAY!!  and I had better get real busy if I want to do the same..


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 07, 2014, 08:40:45 AM
Got close enough on my taxes that I spent most of yesterday in the shop putting things up, moving things out, and in general getting ready for a new season.  I have a bunch of Innovate stuff that I will be installing for the NA data logging. Nothing elaborate--- tps, A/F, Fuel Pressure, and maybe one or two more.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 13, 2014, 09:19:40 PM
Andy, John and I had a good day in the shop.  We reinstalled the rear axle with its new 2.73 gears  we will now be able to run El M with two shifts  our low FDR will go from 3.77 to  4.80  if we have a good track we should be able to pull away much better.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: 38flattie on April 13, 2014, 09:58:31 PM
 :cheers:

See you in May!


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: kustombrad on April 20, 2014, 11:24:38 AM
Hey Spark! Was great talking to you the other day except for the nasty Texas road noise! We'll talk more about shirt stuff and bomber art! See you in May! Brad


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 25, 2014, 06:31:38 AM
Still in Texas---Picked up my B'Ville rear axle housing. It is made from a Camaro housing it will widen the track by 10". It has 2.14s and the Torsen carrier.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on April 27, 2014, 05:56:59 PM
Andy and I bled the brakes and worked on a check list of to dos be fore El M.


Title: Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
Post by: SPARKY on May 02, 2014, 08:08:18 PM
Picked up my rebuilt alt.   and got the word today on the specs for our new frt wheels for "Miss Liberty"


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 08, 2014, 12:32:57 AM
Lots of stuff going on---sent in my BNI membership ---and my B'ville entry---yesterday ---Andy and I have been working on the car 2-3 hours every evening and I have been on it off on on some each day!!


Made new "Dream Charts tonight  With 23, 24.5 and 26" tires

2.73 rear for El M    FDRs of 4.80 2.73 and 2.13
2.14 rear for B'Ville FDRs of  3.76 2.14 and 1.67

busy busy busy---lots going on  really getting pumped about getting to go for my first ride in Miss Liberty!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on May 08, 2014, 01:01:48 AM
Good to hear.
You're really pumped now. :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 09, 2014, 11:18:52 PM
3 hours
4 adjustments to the 9 point harness system
3 "blind" put your hand on it and call it out
4 Bailouts =  one tired whipped HAPPY puppy  :-D --the list just gets    shorter and shorter

We will try to load Wed or Thursday morning  I have  memorial service to attend Thursday afternoon  intend to pull out 5:00 AM Friday morning!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 10, 2014, 11:08:55 PM
Andy, John and I got the trailer into position to load.  We are waiting on Marty to finish the batt. cut off switch ---he thought my solution was a little to Southern for him he was going to "prof." it.  I may try to fire the car Sun afternoon.  Made a HF run to get a new ATV winch for the trailer.  Will need to install it. 


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 11, 2014, 10:54:38 PM
John and I got the car down off the jack stands and on race tires.  The
belts are now all adjusted and we will be cutting off a bunch of the tails off so we do not have to tape up so much excess.

With the 21s on the front and 23s on the back, and off the stands I just do not seem to be able to remember just how low Ms LIBERTY is. 
Andy and I installed the new winch tonight.
 Red Hat Roger is coming by about 10:00 am AM and we may go to lunch


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on May 11, 2014, 10:58:02 PM
Sparky, go well and be safe. :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 12, 2014, 11:11:06 PM
Well today was my going to elementary school on Holley 4500s

When we fired yesterday we did not have a Happy motor!1

Roger and Tim of Red 636 Camaro fame and I started the spark, fuel and air count down on Miss Liberty---we did not get past the fuel---something was crazy wrong -- with the primaries ---Roger pulled the bowl off and every thing was covered with some kind of extremely fine powder that was the color of lead---none of us had seen anything like this before!!!

I made lot of phone calls---didn't get answers lots of places--- drained the fuel system poured it through coffee filters---no color--Roger took the carb cleaned it  up with new bowl gaskets and such----reinstalled brought every thing back up to snuff---had a bad transition---changed the primary jets to 92s---they were #96s
---a much happier eng.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Freud on May 12, 2014, 11:22:57 PM
These projects can be so humbling. Obviously you  started with a tune up that you thought

was safe and in the ball park. It slapped you in the face. Old school determination brought

you back to a working solution.  Basics brought you back to reality.

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!

Satisfaction is so much closer now. You looked trouble in the eye and trouble blinked.

GREAT JOB  fellows.

FREUD


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Peter Jack on May 12, 2014, 11:44:38 PM
Are you running gasoline or alcohol Sparky? If it's alcohol, did you leave fuel in the system more than a couple of days?

Pete


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on May 13, 2014, 12:22:10 AM
With methanol that's a no-no.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 13, 2014, 05:47:24 AM
Race gas, pulled the carb. when we got home from El  M in Nov. and dumped all the fuel as well as drained the tank.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 13, 2014, 10:45:24 PM
chasing "stuff" all day  got the fire bottles weighed and tags for them---Andy and I spent 3 hours on niggling things---

WE HAVE A RACE CAR READY FOR INSPECTION!!!!

We mad up a parts list for me to chase before John comes over around 10:00 am  to put the skin and transport tires on Ms Liberty and get her ready for her 2nd trailer ride..


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Finallygotit on May 14, 2014, 09:14:22 AM
Good luck this weekend Sparky!  Maybe we'll run into you.   :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: 38flattie on May 14, 2014, 09:33:48 AM
Sparky, looking forward to seeing you again in a couple of days!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: saltwheels262 on May 14, 2014, 04:40:52 PM
good luck, William.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 14, 2014, 04:42:22 PM
Safe travels and racing Sparky!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on May 14, 2014, 07:01:08 PM
Sparky, be safe, have fun and get dirty!  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on May 14, 2014, 07:37:45 PM
As I remember, Sparky, when you took your car to EM for a first inspection - you had a fine time and got good information on what needed doing.  Let's hope that this time all they do is look it over and smile and tell you it's ready to go.  Best wishes -- and have a blast.  Be safe, too! :-D :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 14, 2014, 11:05:57 PM
After our first inspection we had 3 things we needed to address:
1.  I failed to put the battery cut off at one end of the car or the other---it is now on the very back of the car
2.  I had new fire bottles and did not think they need cert. tags--as mentioned I got the bottles weighed and both bottles now have tags attached.
3.  one of the inspectors asked about having a cross member right up against ones tail bone---well that part of the cross member that stuck up above the 1/4" plate that is my drivers seat--- is no more.

We still have to do all of our new car staged runs:
under 150 both chutes out--then we will see what the guys would like to see next---goal for the weekend ---2 line qualified :cheers:





Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Skip Pipes on May 15, 2014, 01:34:24 AM
Good luck this weekend. I'll see you at the lakebed, roadster in tow.

Skip Pipes


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 15, 2014, 08:10:19 AM
 :-D
Skip here is to both of us enjoying shaking down our new rides  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 15, 2014, 09:29:43 AM
got a call from TM yesterday--he is making shavings  :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on May 15, 2014, 09:41:11 AM
I can't be there but I'm excited for you both.

You deserve every bit of pleasure she gives you. :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 15, 2014, 09:55:58 AM
Thanks---your day should be coming soon!!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 16, 2014, 01:01:26 AM
Loaded, new tires on the trailer,  Shakey Land here we come :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 19, 2014, 08:34:44 AM
Well we found out that shakey land was not the land of milk and honey this weekend---was the land of wind and dust!!   :cry:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Skip Pipes on May 19, 2014, 03:11:05 PM
Sparky - I think we both got Goosed by the wind this weekend. I feel really sorry for all the guys that didn't get a run in this weekend, mother nature had it out for us. However, it was really good to visit with you, and so says the misses. I'll be over to Phoenix in a couple of weeks.

Skip Pipes


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 20, 2014, 04:56:52 PM
We found out a quirk of my car with the canopy window----when there is a wind-- quartering to straight from behind --the dust stirred up by the push truck sticks to the front of the "visibility window"  within 15 yards of pushing down the track  ( I was just going to push down the track to get a visibility feel---BAM--there was a complete brown out.
 
 NO wonder Andy had visibility issues---we had the same wind direction at the Nov '13 meet 

this canopy will be for B'ville only!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on May 20, 2014, 06:01:02 PM
Don't forget a breathing mask or bandana tied across your mouth and nose when you go down the EM track.  What good is it to see if you're going faint from holding your breath?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 20, 2014, 11:28:16 PM
LOL 


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 23, 2014, 09:29:40 AM
We will get real busy finishing our wider track axle and building a rear fairing for it---time to get out the aero book and check up on shark teeth


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 24, 2014, 10:30:15 AM
Count down to B'ville

1. Pull the eng. to stop a small oil leak on the pan, and hook up the pan vacuum gauge.
2.  try to fit a dust cover over the flywheel--PG didn't have big             tooth count ones
3 mount the wider track 2.14 geared axle- we will be running with our MT 16s   We are working toward a 270+ 1/4 speed  The old car had a 269+ 
4  move brake pedal forward to lower my left leg in the cockpit to be able to restrain it closer to the floor.   





Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Tman on May 24, 2014, 01:34:59 PM
Any shots of the completed car?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Dynoroom on May 24, 2014, 02:01:27 PM
 :-o


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Tman on May 24, 2014, 02:11:14 PM
Thanks Mike!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 24, 2014, 02:34:39 PM
John took these


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on May 25, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
Sparky,
Great to see her on 4 wheels but that B17 tailgunner turret has got to go!

Rex


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Glen on May 25, 2014, 05:51:08 PM
Rex I was thinking thats a lot of surface area behind the rear tires :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Frankie7799 on May 25, 2014, 08:18:45 PM
Rex now that you mention the B17 tailgunner, it does kinda look that way a bit.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 25, 2014, 10:33:47 PM
LOL  :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Jack Gifford on May 25, 2014, 11:40:19 PM
... thats a lot of surface area behind the rear tires...
Wouldn't that be desirable if the car wanted to yaw (or spin)?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on May 26, 2014, 06:07:46 AM
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=46488;image)

Its a goanna!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5RzWexaUcfrG9rlPYuwQ4BoGZFJoK0xUlQQoacP1IgsorrPuA

Can't wait to see her in August.. :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2014, 09:27:40 AM
Its a goanna!  :-o  as in go Anna  :?

In E. Tx. there is a small green Lizard that has red and yellow linear stripes with a long tail we called a sand runner---he was very fast on sand---lol

Wouldn't that be desirable if the car wanted to yaw (or spin)?

Jack, it is 72" from center of rear axle to end of sheet metal.

Aero Doug, to me---to most folks, "Motorcycle Doug" Robinson sized it up and thinks it probably doesn't need any tail feathers because it has enough flat vertical behind the axle.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on May 26, 2014, 10:41:53 AM
Sparky:

"Its a goanna!"

At least it's not a "guano".  :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Stan Back on May 26, 2014, 10:45:50 AM
I think James has found the right paint scheme.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2014, 12:15:31 PM
Tale of two runs

9/17/08   Qualifying
wind         0.0
temp       86.8
DA       6247
           time     speed
1/4     3.658      245.988
1st    13.718      262.446
mid   12.369      291.028
3rd    11.842      303.985
out        .092      307.879

9/18/08     Back up
wind       5.  NNW
temp     64.0
DA     4848
            time        Speed
1/4       3.334       269.942
1st      12.865       279.823
mid     12.101       297.488
3rd      11.742       306.569
out        2.907       309.526


I have my ideas on what this is telling me but I would welcome  comments  much like we got about the SOS  runs

Thanks in advance for your ideas on what you think I could learn from this info. Help us all understand what all there is to learn from comparing time slips.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on May 26, 2014, 02:59:44 PM
Congratulations, Bill!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: gearheadeh on May 26, 2014, 03:06:48 PM
Tale of two runs

9/17/08   Qualifying
wind         0.0
temp       86.8
DA       6247
           time     speed
1/4     3.658      245.988
1st    13.718      262.446
mid   12.369      291.028
3rd    11.842      303.985
out        .092      307.879

9/18/08     Back up
wind       5.  NNW
temp     64.0
DA     4848
            time        Speed
1/4       3.334       269.942
1st      12.865       279.823
mid     12.101       297.488
3rd      11.742       306.569
out        2.907       309.526


I have my ideas on what this is telling me but I would welcome  comments  much like we got about the SOS  runs

Thanks in advance for your ideas on what you think I could learn from this info. Help us all understand what all there is to learn from comparing time slips.

Sparky, from what I have come to understand, you did not make any recent timed runs at Elmo with this new car and you want to talk about what there is to learn about the old car from runs almost 6 years ago?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: POPS on May 26, 2014, 03:35:06 PM
SPARKY,
Seems to me it was spinning the tires above 300. Maybe that's why Freddy ran a wing!
POPS


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2014, 04:33:47 PM
LOL  I would wish that my na motor could spin the tires at 3 plus!! with a 1.66 FDR---

These two slips were from my blue hat run---I had lots of issues on the on the first run in the first two miles---hence the almost 246 vs the almost 270  that is 24 mph diff.

But look at the 1 mid and 3 mile comparisons

The old car could pull very hard up to around 3  but I then started hitting the Aero Wall very little  between the last mile and the exit speed---

These were my assumptions that led me to sell the old car. 

I bring this up because hopefully in July, I will have some 3 mile exit speeds (trap times) to compare---but I will only have trap times--How will I be able to compare? Will it be a case of apples and lemons?

What am I not considering?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: POPS on May 26, 2014, 06:36:19 PM
SPARKY,
The way to fix the problem is DOWN FORCE. Did you have a Racepak on the old car? If its busting the tires loose you can easily see that in the driveshaft graph. What impressed me about the old car was how much the rearend moved around. The rear mounted video camera was telling me it couldn't take much more power.
POPS




Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: jl222 on May 26, 2014, 07:02:13 PM

 As the top speeds were real close even with a much better 21/4 time, its going as fast as it can with the hp you have.

  Better streamlining, smaller body, or more power.

              JL222


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Glen on May 26, 2014, 07:20:04 PM
Sparky the dust problem can come from the smallest path or hole, when I ran my  lakester I got dusted out for 5 or 6 runs, we sealed everything on the car the problem was told to me by Don Carr as he watched one run and said the front wing was the problem, took the wing off and drove it thru the lights with no more dust. It was a front axle drag race wing.  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on May 26, 2014, 09:26:45 PM

 As the top speeds were real close even with a much better 21/4 time, its going as fast as it can with the hp you have.

  Better streamlining, smaller body, or more power.

              JL222
What JL said!

Torque & traction determine acceleration and HP determines top speed! You had a better launch for DA4848!  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 26, 2014, 10:41:58 PM
Whoooeeeee Woody   I love the graph---maybe we can plot my 3 mile trap speed and get an IDEA of what I may be able to do in Aug.

THANKS

Ps. that graph really points out for the slower cars:

Its is a 4 mile drag race with a 1 mile trap!!

Very little increase in the last mile


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Rex Schimmer on May 27, 2014, 03:21:55 PM
Sparky,
Just for $hits and grins do you know what the weight was on the rear axle of your old car? As I remember it was also a flat bottom car, did you run it with some rake? Ever dyno the engine? My guess is a 500+ inch BBC on gas probably is good for 1100 to 1200 hp depending on displacement and rpms.

Your two timing slips probably have a lot to say regarding total available horse power, aero i.e. frontal area x coefficient of drag plus rolling resistance plus skin drag. Your old car looks like it could probably run right at the 310 mark with the hp you had at the time regardless of the length of the course. Definitely against the "aero wall".

Rex


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on May 27, 2014, 03:59:20 PM
The other thing to consider is the difference in air density. If we "assume" you were jetted correctly at DA 6247 then DA 4848 would give you about 5% more HP NA. About 25% of that would be consumed by the aero drag of the thicker air. If we plot that on the DA 4848 then you should have gone about ~2 mph faster on that run. Lots of assumptions, so ~310 instead of ~312 is pretty durn good. Besides the hats don't come in different shades of blue anyway!  :-D

I gave you another curve to shoot for!  :-o


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 27, 2014, 06:28:49 PM
Rex,  We had just over 930 dyno,  2015 on the rear 1250 on front  yes it had 2.5 deg rake


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 27, 2014, 06:35:24 PM
 :-o Woody---lol

This thing should go a little faster---BUT we still have wheels and tires OUT  Lets keep it simple and knock about 123 off that  :cheers:

found some scales today to weigh and CG this thing


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on May 27, 2014, 07:45:24 PM
Hope I got photo thing figured out.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on May 27, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
Well one worked!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on May 27, 2014, 07:49:57 PM
How about one more.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 27, 2014, 08:26:13 PM
Wow Terry are you sure those things are going to hold air?  It has a big hole in the middle of them!!  lol


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on May 27, 2014, 08:32:10 PM
Thats where the air goes in. We'll plug it with racers tape.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 27, 2014, 10:57:35 PM
touché  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Sumner on May 28, 2014, 12:12:34 AM
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9404.0;attach=46531;image)

Beautiful work  :cheers: :cheers:,

Sum


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on May 28, 2014, 12:52:48 AM
I second that. :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 28, 2014, 08:19:19 AM
Mouerman--- does do good work, especially for someone so geographically challenged !!  Not only does he live East of THE state line but he is a YANKEE to boot---lol--- :cheers:



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: gearheadeh on May 28, 2014, 10:06:51 AM
  Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
« Reply #1686 on: May 27, 2014, 07:48:13 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well one worked!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Sparky's Wheels Measure OD.JPG 
 


COOL,  :mrgreen: never seen a 12 to 13 inch Micrometer before!   :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on May 28, 2014, 11:02:33 AM
 Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
« Reply #1686 on: May 27, 2014, 07:48:13 PM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well one worked!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Sparky's Wheels Measure OD.JPG  
 


COOL,  :mrgreen: never seen a 12 to 13 inch Micrometer before!   :cheers:
Wow! It is a micrometer. Wayno


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on May 28, 2014, 12:49:33 PM
Actually it's a 16" to 20" mike. I was able to resize a photo taken before Sparky told me how to use my camera. This is what we started with.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Geo on May 28, 2014, 01:42:28 PM
Wow!  Extremely nice job on the wheels.

That must be a Midget Micrometer!  :evil:

Geo


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Glen on May 28, 2014, 02:13:00 PM
Thats a lot of saw cutting, must have taken a few minutes.  :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Finallygotit on May 28, 2014, 02:18:01 PM
I'm thinking water jet.  Too nice a cut for a saw.  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 28, 2014, 05:28:54 PM
And the winner is---Envelope Please-----WATERJET!!!


Wow those things look like they belong on Fred Flintstones  Log Mobile!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on May 28, 2014, 07:00:56 PM
Same brakes. :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on May 28, 2014, 10:06:01 PM
no brakes man this is LSR


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Jack Gifford on May 29, 2014, 12:33:40 AM
... it's a 16" to 20" mike...
The micrometer barrel sure doesn't appear to have 4" of travel. Are there removal anvil extensions?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Jack Gifford on May 29, 2014, 11:19:52 PM
Oops... meant 'removable'...


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 01, 2014, 06:41:59 PM
  weights with transport tires and me standing where my belly button is----will install race tires, fire suit and transfer water to tanks where it will be when we leave the line Monday.  will not change it much
207 wb

LF               RF
682             510    = 1192

LR               RR
952             1116  = 2068

                    Total    3260


almost exactly what the old car weighed  :-o


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Peter Jack on June 01, 2014, 07:56:58 PM
You have a bunch of wedge in the car. It may tend to pull to one side. It won't be a good oval car because the wedge is the wrong way!  :-D :-D :evil:

Pete


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 01, 2014, 08:25:27 PM
lol 
   682                       1116
-  510                     -   952
= 172/2=86            =  164/2= 82


PJ   this is just a SWAG on my part  at trying to offset the eng torque &  pinion trying to lift the right rear.  Hopefully underway it has a better chance of going straight .  This thing is seems to be pretty responsive to changing tire pressures.  It seems to be fairly torsionally ridged.         


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Stainless1 on June 01, 2014, 08:31:54 PM
I was about to ask if you factored in torque.... I guess you did  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 02, 2014, 12:45:29 PM
hot off the scales with race tires no wheel disks   :-o

  LF              RF
  636            506      1142
  953          1081      2034
                               3176  total

205" wb 
cg 131" aft of the front axle

CG with driver on board is at the frt motor plate without driver 6" rear ward  hard to believe this car is 75 lbs lighter than the old car  but right now I only have 180# of ballast the old car had almost 300 and 2 batteries that sat right in front of the rear axle.  I could get another 180# in without turbos.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 03, 2014, 07:17:36 PM
Will get back on it in the AM  will get it up on stands and drain the oil and fuel and work on the pan leak


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 04, 2014, 09:06:17 AM
dimensions

Sorry for the duplication  I thought I could get it posted open

the one below is the same thing


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 04, 2014, 09:15:54 AM
dimensions


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Sumner on June 04, 2014, 10:58:49 AM
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/Sparky-lakester-2.jpg)



I feel the Center of Pressure is close to where I show it above.  

Cut the car out of the picture, transferred it to cardboard, cut the cardboard out, then balanced the image (like a see-saw) and it balanced on that point.  Probably close.

Also since the car is flatter at the back than the front the point is probably even further back as the method I used doesn't take that into consideration.  It gave equal aero weight (not sure of the proper term) to the cars shape as viewed from the side.  A flat surface, as viewed from the side, would move the CP in that direction verses a rounded surface for the same surface area.

To work on that you could whittle out a small model to scale and put a pin through it vertically and move the pin to the point where the model didn't weather-vane around when you put air on it,

Sum


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 04, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
Thanks Summ for  posting the OPEN pdf  :lol:


John came over today and we dropped the pan and used three tubes of ULTRA Blue for a pan gasket   we loosely snugged it up at 3:00 and I will go back at
 9 PM and torque to specs!!  we should have the oil and vacuum leaks stopped!!  Blue pookey squeezed everywhere!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 08, 2014, 06:54:11 PM
www.leadmineproducts.com     C-Clip eliminator axles

These guys are where I ordered my "builder axle" shafts from  they have 2 lengths of axles you can chose from  makes building a GM axle with 28 splines real easy---you just cut to length  I ordered two of the long ones and will have to cut about 1 1/8" off the short side ---very reasonable and easy to work with..


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 12, 2014, 11:25:02 PM
Cut the old mounting brackets out and have the nearly completed wider stance 62" from flange to flange  as wide as I could make it.  had to modify the Camaro torque arm brackets to get it in with out cutting up my 4x4 tubes full of lead---if I have as good a shop day Fri. as I did this afternoon we may soon have a roller again  :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2014, 09:13:40 AM
did not have a good day in the shop yesterday---my mentally challenged self was in control ----could not get brackets to agree with what I think I need---woke up at 4 this morning grabbed the paper made some coffee---bam-- the brackets jumped to the surface of my muddled mind.  PAPER DOLL time---in my skivvies and flip flops head out to the shop 1.5 hours later I have patterns that I think will work and give me the clearance I will need later with the Turbos.  By then I was awake enough to have the sense not to try to cut them out-- time for breakfast.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on June 14, 2014, 09:30:43 AM
Sparky, remember that yesterday was Friday the 13th.  I betcha that had something to do with your crappy day in the shop. :lol:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2014, 09:47:08 AM
Jon,  I attributed it to the solar flares, the full moon and the 13th   just a star crossed day but we did have a great b'day party at Organ Pizza in Mesa.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: joea on June 14, 2014, 11:19:20 AM
.."Organ Pizza"...?....


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on June 14, 2014, 12:09:51 PM
.."Organ Pizza"...?....
Yeah. You don't wanna see how they make sausage.  :roll:  :cheers: Wayno


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: 4-barrel Mike on June 14, 2014, 12:53:52 PM
Or donuts. :mrgreen:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 14, 2014, 05:53:12 PM
.."Organ Pizza"...?...

Organ Stop Pizza  :-o





Welcome to Organ Stop Pizza, home to The Mighty Wurlitzer. Organ Stop's Mighty Wurlitzer is one of the largest and finest theater organs in ... Mesa, AZ 85204    Picture of Mich. amber  $8.00



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: joea on June 14, 2014, 11:27:42 PM
Wurlitzers..and pictures of Mich Amber...must be awesome ambiance..?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Jack Gifford on June 15, 2014, 01:13:07 AM
... yesterday was Friday the 13th...
That could not have been his problem. As Pogo used to say in the comic strip- "When Friday the 13th falls on a Friday, all is well; but when Friday the 13th falls on a Tuesday... or a Saturday... or whatever- watch out!" :evil:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 15, 2014, 08:50:11 AM
LOL


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 15, 2014, 02:07:13 PM
I got my brackets cut out and cleaned up---but I am going to wait until I have a second pair of hands and eyes to measure to make sure I have a better shot at alignment ---just as soon not have Ms Liberty not dog tracking down the track.  :-o


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 16, 2014, 12:27:10 AM
Well I could not stand it I just kept going back, watched,, the race for a while  worked in shop,  watched the ball games for a while back to the shop---I think I am there,  decided to sleep on it then will hard tack in the am.. an get some more eyes.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 18, 2014, 09:10:11 AM
Marty came by last night and welded the axle brackets to the new axel and the frame brackets so I now have a axle I can take in and out.  I am taking the time to reroute the brake lines to shield them from the turbos when we get there.  Once again  I am reminded why folks say that Special construction takes 3 to 4 times as long as door slammers.  Every thing is a long thinking process as well as having to "BRACKET RACE" your way through the whole process.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: kustombrad on June 18, 2014, 09:36:59 AM
You're telling me!  :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on June 18, 2014, 09:58:32 AM
Marty came by last night and welded the axle brackets to the new axel and the frame brackets so I now have a axle I can take in and out.  I am taking the time to reroute the brake lines so shield them from the turbos when we get there.  Once again  I am reminded why folks say that Special construction takes 3 to 4 times as long as door slammers.  Every thing is a long thinking process as well as having to "BRACKET RACE" your way through the whole process.

100% Sparky. :cheers:

The stuff never stops and you have to be 10 steps ahead when doing anything.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on June 18, 2014, 11:18:38 AM
Amen to that, Sparky!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Dynoroom on June 18, 2014, 12:07:00 PM
Marty came by last night and welded the axle brackets to the new axel and the frame brackets so I now have a axle I can take in and out.  I am taking the time to reroute the brake lines to shield them from the turbos when we get there.  Once again  I am reminded why folks say that Special construction takes 3 to 4 times as long as door slammers.  Every thing is a long thinking process as well as having to "BRACKET RACE" your way through the whole process.

 :? :? :?    :-D    :mrgreen:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 18, 2014, 10:27:50 PM
John came over for about 4 hours---we got STUFF done,, the oil pan is now all hooked back up and all the dry sump lines installed.
  the axle is bolted in and it aligns nicely
 the brake lines are in they are UGLY but you can't see the ugly and they are functional

I should be able to finish most of the axle  and start reinstalling the water tank  then on to the carb and tps stuff.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on June 19, 2014, 02:29:00 AM
Go Sparky :cheers:



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 23, 2014, 12:05:19 PM
Got one of the brakes done and found a defective wheel cyl--some more of that great chi-com stuff replacement parts for Ford 9"---will get it done today Andy and I will bleed the brakes tonight

 -mostly I will work on getting the TPS installed inside my air intake scoop system.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 23, 2014, 10:22:54 PM
Andy came over for an hour to night---we bled the brakes and adjusted the shoes---I finished the brakes the AM and worked on the fuel system and TPS off and on this afternoon.

Thanks Sum for all you have done toward this Data Logging stuff


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 24, 2014, 01:53:42 PM
bracket racing---arghhhhh  :x  been "fitting" Sum's TPS switch on my car plate ---finally done--now have to make mounting bracket and a new return spring "stand" for the carb and get this part wired.

bracket--- smacket ---who likes making brackets


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Elmo Rodge on June 24, 2014, 03:36:54 PM
I like making brackets. I like everything.  :-) Wayno


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Sumner on June 24, 2014, 05:02:54 PM
I like making brackets. I like everything.  :-) Wayno

Yea, what would life be without brackets  :-),

Sum


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 24, 2014, 05:29:21 PM
Well the brackets are made the TPS clears   :-) now to install the throttle cable, modify the back up springs  and start wiring and making some more brackets to hold the innovate stuff


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on June 24, 2014, 05:30:51 PM
Who made your throttle cable, Bill?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 24, 2014, 11:05:25 PM
Neil, I modified a boat cable that I salvaged.  Will be working on getting the Inovate data logging up and running---I am beginning to get really pumped---we will be on the salt in 2 weeks--

-My 1st date with Ms Liberty---I hope she is one fast lady---lol


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on June 24, 2014, 11:15:50 PM
Thanks, Bill-- good idea.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 25, 2014, 08:10:41 AM
Who made your throttle cable, Bill?


Neil,  I forgot,  imagine a guy my age doing that  :cry: 

I bought several mounting brackets and other hardware as well as special length fire cable from these guys

California Push-Pull Inc. 
push-pull.com    530-893-4060  they have lots of little trinkets that make things easier or better

sorry



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on June 25, 2014, 01:21:09 PM
I'll check them out. I need a few of various lengths for fire bottle, chute release, and fuel shut- off.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Frankie7799 on June 26, 2014, 11:51:16 AM
Neil, you might also check with Chuck's Speed Center here in Phoenix. At one time they made custom length cables and had ends and things. (602) 266-5101


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on June 26, 2014, 06:14:46 PM
Thanks, Frankie (?)- I'll have a look.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 28, 2014, 12:22:48 AM
Spent the last 2 days off and on laying out the basic data logging stuff from Innovate ..

  My pea brain has a hard time wrapping itself around this EE stuff!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 28, 2014, 01:45:31 PM
Sum has been a great help with me getting my sr. brain around this data logging install --

-as with most automotive Electrical stuff it is usually the grounds that cause problems---this Innovate stuff is not internally grounded.. we are getting there though


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 29, 2014, 07:19:53 PM
"We are getting there though" 

Andy, John, and I  had a pretty good day in the shop ---Sum would have had a better day in his shop--- if I had not been on the phone to him asking about --wiring the aux battery -- so that it has an automatic battery cut off switch powered by  the car system  ie on bat disconnect kills both to comply with the rules!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 29, 2014, 09:56:31 PM
Well are we moving toward the problems Mike has in S. A. ie power outages---we have had 2 days in a row--- here it could be

1.  Drug Cartels
2.  Domestic Terrorism ---not former Vets I may add
3.  Heat/AC  overload

do not laugh ---we have had all three in the last 6 weeks----at various places in AZ.  Here in Phoenix  I sure hope it is because of the electrical load---but only The Shadow knows for sure!!  :roll:

Special thanks to Sum for his coaching and to Wayneo--for his attitude adjustment inspiration about brackets!!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Sumner on June 30, 2014, 12:23:43 AM
...Special thanks to Sum for his coaching and to Wayneo--for his attitude adjustment inspiration about brackets!!!

No problem, I think it is good though that you are working with 12 volts and not 120 or 240  :-D 8-) :evil:.

The relay is packed and will go out in the morning,

Sum


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on June 30, 2014, 11:36:04 PM
 :-D   :-o   :?  Well we made progress  I learned to day from Sum that Innovate has different types of signals---some go to the various boxes and some go through them  the wire different.

I bracket raced today---I built a battery mounting tray and mounted it under the front Fire bottle---8# 140" in front of the CG in front of the frt axle---so that will help spread the CG from the CP  we will be we should be ready to load the car Sunday afternoon for the test and tune---we hope to pull out of here the afternoon of the 9th

 look forward to being on the salt.  I will order a egt probe tomorrow .


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 01, 2014, 07:57:03 AM
All of  this angst about electrons.  We are working to keep our automotive electrons separate from our data recording electrons.  Comingling not acceptable. 

The automotive electrons have a chassis ground the data logging system will all ground back to the  separate aux.  battery.  The automotive system will have a master on/off switch (back of car) that cuts the battery ground to the chassis. 

Sumner suggested using a relay as an on/off switch for the small aux. battery that is used for the data logging.  The relay is right at the positive terminal of the aux. battery.  The relay is powered up by being connected to the automotive system (battery) by a switch when needed.  The relay connects the aux. battery to the data logging equipment.  It will kill the power from the aux. battery any time the main power is shut off at the back of the car. 

Sum didn't like my idea of having the 2 battery grounds tied together only at the battery posts.

The way we now have the car wired the one cut off at the back of the car will disconnect the entire electrical system and there will not be any co-mingling of electrons. 

They still get to do their thing just not together.   :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on July 01, 2014, 07:08:45 PM
Checking bearing bore diameter on Sparky's wheels.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on July 01, 2014, 07:19:19 PM
16" to 20" mandrel mike.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Podunk on July 01, 2014, 07:27:59 PM
Sparky's wheels are on their way to Nate Jones to mount the 17"x4" Goodyear Front Runners.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Peter Jack on July 01, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
Podunk, you do awsome work. I have several close friends in Indianapolis who do work for race cars all the time and yours is definitely right up there with the best.

Pete


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 01, 2014, 08:20:30 PM
 :-D   

Wow  I bet Ms. Liberty is going to like her PRETTY new  "Shoes"


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 06, 2014, 09:59:18 PM
Francis came up Sat. and repaired the back of the hood scoop where I had chopped some of it out to gain clearance for the TPS. Before he left we fired it off and checked for water fuel an oil leaks had some minor ones that Andy and I worked on today.

All and all we had good days yesterday and today getting things checked over.  We have a slight brake drag issue but we have swapped the drums and adjustors got one clean and I will swap shoe adjustors with another axle and I bet we get the other one free.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 07, 2014, 09:13:21 AM
got an email from John last night he may be able to come over to day around noon--hopefully the mailman runs early today and we can calibrate the 2 new transducers and get our data logging system up and running.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 07, 2014, 11:25:18 PM
Great day in the shop, John came over just before noon and was able to stay until 6:00 PM  then Andy came over---we have the data logging system in  and a "PLAN" for the new car and me, at the test and tune.

1st pass:  a 150 easy run down the whole track and test the brakes at the 2. really check the car over

2nd pass a hard pass to the 1.25 to simulate El M and deploy both chutes  and see how we could stop at El M  ditto checking the car est. speed  225 mph


3rd pass   all out pass to the 2.25 to compare to the old cars best 1/4 speed---  one chute out to compare to old chute out stopping  est. speed 275 mph  ditto car check

4th pass all out to the 3 exit and timing trap -  est speed  :?  to be seen---should give us a pretty good idea what to expect at SW

I am looking  SO FORWARD to seeing all the new cars make their initial passes.  I am fortunate to be shaking our new car down with several new liners that I expect to be "Freaky Fast" as JJ says



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on July 09, 2014, 12:00:31 AM
GO Sparky!!!! :cheers:

Wish you all the best and even more.

Have a safe one.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: 38flattie on July 09, 2014, 06:38:19 AM
Here's hoping you meet all your goals!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 14, 2014, 12:18:39 PM
Goals vs hope for:  Ms Liberty is back in her back yard.

 We are just back from the test and tune---what a great  2.5 days---saw lots of old friends and a bunch of new cars and old cars with new config's that will be heard from in the next few years---wow lets just hope we will continue to have "Outdoor Access" to the BLM controlled land.

we had 6 starts and 5 finishes 15 miles under power with speeds stepping up from just under 120 to the last at 227.

Sum shot lots of video and we have the start of data logging we will get better!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 15, 2014, 10:43:05 AM
Sum should be back home and will get a chance to see the video on a larger screen--- we hope to evaluate them and see if we can really evaluate the chute deployment. We seem to have a very clean "set" with no oscillation or kiting---We just want to stop action & slow motion evaluate it. 

We may have the "minor spin" mentioned earlier by Dan!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: PorkPie on July 16, 2014, 04:58:32 AM
...the minor spin was the NASCAR racer.....not only once....but two times.....

About the parachute....I could "frame your laundry" :roll:.....have to check and prepare the picture and you will see what the chute is doing....what I can say now....the chute is turning like a prop...but not that bad...
somewhere is the bodywork/axle not symmetrical....


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 16, 2014, 08:33:45 AM
PP thanks for the heads up we will get busy and install our rear facing camera..


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Freud on July 16, 2014, 12:22:20 PM
Spark.....Thanks for finding me.............

It helped a lot. You listen well.

FREUD


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 16, 2014, 01:54:06 PM
Doc---my pleasure in seeing you and getting the chance to "listen" to my elders--- :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 16, 2014, 11:49:20 PM
Sum is posting the video that he shot at the T&T on his
 youtube channel 1fatgmc---lots of heat distortion but a pretty good idea what Ms Libberty is going to look like at speed---some more refinements and a bitchin paint job and she is going to be a mighty fine "DATE"

2 things: 
the salt was fairly wet but Ms Liberty doesn't seem to leave the air as active behind her as Ratical did.
  I sure hope that holds as I work the speeds up

In watching the chutes we have issues with the chute bags on the pilot chute tethers. I am going to call Stroud in the morning an let him evaluate what he sees and see if we have similar opinions.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: desotoman on July 17, 2014, 12:15:43 AM

Sum is posting the video that he shot at the T&T on his
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scDFy296-N0&list=UUxFiJQoy2NEbltvkvT2q71g

Tom G.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Sumner on July 17, 2014, 08:35:22 AM

Sum is posting the video that he shot at the T&T on his
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scDFy296-N0&list=UUxFiJQoy2NEbltvkvT2q71g

Tom G.

Thanks Tom,  I also added his 196 mph 4th run this morning were it was decided to only deploy one chute.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYP1qAi4OIY&index=1&list=UUxFiJQoy2NEbltvkvT2q71g

Sorry about the video quality.  I shot these with a Cannon SX30 PowerShot that isn't really a video camera at about 30X optical zoom and hand held.  We were about the 2 1/2 so at the end of the video the car was about 1 3/4 miles from us,

Sum


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 17, 2014, 10:29:59 AM
Just got off the phone with Bob, He suggested that we lengthen the long line to see if we get a little less interference between the two fighting for the same space.  He was very pleased to hear that the bag was actually inverting over the pilot---less wear and tear on both, as well as less kiteing of the pilot!

I told him I thought I had a double looped tether and that I would try.

One of the great JOYS of LSR as you and your new ride get to know each other!!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Sumner on July 17, 2014, 11:44:24 AM
....  He was very pleased to hear that the bag was actually inverting over the pilot---less wear and tear on both, as well as less kiteing of the pilot!

That makes sense.  I also added the video from the 2nd run which was the first Chute deployment as the 1st run was to test the brakes only.  I believe I was closer to the 3 for this video to help see the chute better....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pgyOfUVJWs&list=UUxFiJQoy2NEbltvkvT2q71g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pgyOfUVJWs&list=UUxFiJQoy2NEbltvkvT2q71g)

Sum


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 18, 2014, 12:29:14 AM
Looking good Sparky, can't wait to see the car in August :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 18, 2014, 07:39:30 AM
I was rocking through the day yesterday with you guys thinking about seeing you in 3 weeks :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on July 18, 2014, 02:10:27 PM
Looks like the tail-gunner "canopy" did not affect the chute paths much! Remember whoa is just as important as go!  :-o

See ya at Speed Week Sparky!  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on July 18, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
Woody, last weekend at W-ton there was a guy that came up to us at the drivers meeting - looked just like you,I think I remember.  he said howdy and I think he and I talked for a minute, but then -- I didn't see him again all weekend.  Has anyone else reported that they were accosted by a Woody-pretender?

(And no, fellas, don't bother to go anywhere with that line.  I'm already trying (unsuccessfully) to stifle a snicker). :evil:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on July 18, 2014, 05:24:56 PM
Slim, there are three of them - no pretenders! Me, myself & I! :-o

Since I'm 35 miles from Wilmington it's pretty common for any one or all of them to show up there! :-D


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 19, 2014, 07:26:44 AM
I am going to change the order of coming out of the tubes---I will fly the top one first so that it hopefully has less chance of "crossing the line" I am also taking the first out to 72'  so that here will now be over 25' between them.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 19, 2014, 10:38:42 AM
Sparky, even at 25ft the low speed will kill the air to the high speed & it will stop flying.
Looks like the low speed pilot could use some more spring, that muther bounced before it flew.
Are your hi & low the same dia?
  Sid.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 19, 2014, 10:47:27 AM
Sid they are the same diam.--

Bob now has me using a really small "hanky" pilot with no spring---the old one would have the chute out of the bag and open before it got to the end of the tether; this one does not.  At 227 it was just a small tug---as we work the speeds up it will be interesting to see how much that changes.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 19, 2014, 06:53:53 PM
Andy and I have Ms Liberty back on jack stands:

We went over her today with a fine tooth comb we have several small niggling  things that we plan to address and spent some time on the canopy latches we have them opening much smoother ---but it is sheet alum. and it will thermalize very easy so all is subject to the influence of direct sunlight.. so we shall wait and see if we really have changed anything.



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: jdincau on July 19, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
Sparky,
     Do the jack stands support the car the same as when it is on its wheels? Chassis bending even though slight can make panels fit differently.
Jim


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: kiwi belly tank on July 19, 2014, 08:03:38 PM
Sid they are the same diam.--

Bob now has me using a really small "hanky" pilot with no spring---the old one would have the chute out of the bag and open before it got to the end of the tether; this one does not.  At 227 it was just a small tug---as we work the speeds up it will be interesting to see how much that changes.
If you run them on the same length tow line they will both stay open. Unequal length & the back one will drop when the front one kills the air, not much use if the low speed isn't twice the size of the high speed. You don't gain anything by tossing out #2 except as a backup if #1 fails.
  Sid.
 


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 19, 2014, 09:36:42 PM
Sid,  I agree with your assessment ---I felt very little difference in g-loads with the second chute out --from the film it was apparent that the second chute was a partial because of the tether of the firdt.  I will try it both ways a SW  thanks for the input :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 20, 2014, 11:16:45 AM
Build Blog Blather!!!   

It is interesting the response that those of us try to be very open on their builds receive---from adoration to disdain---

 I am sure most of us earn both!! Some may think that most of us approach these build diaries from ---look at this, look how smart I am, look what I built----

I think that an awful lot of us cruise these builds looking for ways, techniques, and IDEAS and INPUT, and appreciate that others are willing to share---most of us are going where we have not been before---faster and faster---

Thanks to all who I may have been able to help,  but especially to those who have been willing to share, their findings and experience with me for I hope to be one of those who is going where they have not been before---I am willing to share ---most of what I find out.

Which brings us to my latest finding:  A lot of you know that I am a fan of the GM 7.5 rear axle----when I built my latest axle I made it as wide as I could using the stock housing---I knew I was pushing its small 2 5/8" axle tubes with the way I was mounting it in a Lakester---way inboard from the way it mounts in a car.  The Inspectors at the T&T and I discussed this possibility.

Between tying it down on the trailer, trailering it for 1700 miles and running it 20 +miles  we now have tube deflection,  we have a plan to build an axle girdle to prevent & stop this deflection. Marty, Sum and I have noodled out a PLAN of attack  :-D  that should work. 

Thanks for sharing, thanks to all who post their reservations, and or experiences---

this is the kind of stuff that helps us all build, SAFER, faster cars and bikes!!

YMMV  wmts'64


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: desotoman on July 20, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
Good post Bill.  :cheers:

Tom G.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: manta22 on July 20, 2014, 02:45:10 PM
Bill;

Good post! I consider my build diary as a way of passing along some of the things that I've learned along the way. Most of the stuff was learned from others, from reading & studying, and by trial and error. If someone learns something from by build diary, it has accomplished its purpose. I learn from reading other peoples' build diaries-- they are a valuable resource.

We old guys owe a debt to those we learned from to pass along that knowledge.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Tman on July 20, 2014, 04:50:12 PM
I do not understand the disdain. In this age, the internet is a great place to bench race and discuss things that might take a person years ago decades to figure out with the small window we get to run each year. Thanks to all who are open and post info to share!


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on July 21, 2014, 12:36:06 AM
100%. I'm building a car based on everything learned from you guys on the forum.
You post pics of your progress and if the guys say "cool" then you know you got it right.
If not they'll tell you where you went wrong and advise on a better solution.
You can't pay money and get the help like you do on the forum.

I haven't seen any negativity here. Every member wants the next guy to succeed. That doesn't happen in any other motor sport I know of.

Thanks Sparky for the post and the advice you've given me. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: maj on July 21, 2014, 05:54:55 AM
Bill;

Good post! I consider my build diary as a way of passing along some of the things that I've learned along the way. Most of the stuff was learned from others, from reading & studying, and by trial and error. If someone learns something from by build diary, it has accomplished its purpose. I learn from reading other peoples' build diaries-- they are a valuable resource.

We old guys owe a debt to those we learned from to pass along that knowledge.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Neill
The old guys i learnt from around here are pretty much all gone now and just beginning to realise if i am to be one of the old guys in years to come i have to learn a lot more as i am not even close to the range of skills they had
so i am looking and listening hard " a valuable resource" is just about an understatement  :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Dr Goggles on July 21, 2014, 06:08:48 AM
Build Blog Blather!!!   

Which brings us to my latest finding:  A lot of you know that I am a fan of the GM 7.5 rear axle----when I built my latest axle I made it as wide as I could using the stock housing---I knew I was pushing its small 2 5/8" axle tubes with the way I was mounting it in a Lakester---way inboard from the way it mounts in a car.  The Inspectors at the T&T and I discussed this possibility.

Between tying it down on the trailer, trailering it for 1700 miles and running it 20 +miles  we now have tube deflection,  we have a plan to build an axle girdle to prevent & stop this deflection. Marty, Sum and I have noodled out a PLAN of attack  :-D  that should work. 

Thanks for sharing, thanks to all who post their reservations, and or experiences---

this is the kind of stuff that helps us all build, SAFER, faster cars and bikes!!

YMMV  wmts'64

Bill, why don't you do what we did. Get some hollow bar, big enough ID to fit yer axles through and get it turned for an interference fit through the pumpkin into the axle tube, get a mollyfoggin piece of all thread and pull them in  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 21, 2014, 08:27:25 AM
DR. G   That thought is in there--I am sure that will be part of plan B if we have to go there---what we are trying to do will also be a part A-b or B-c..


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 22, 2014, 09:10:02 AM
Jim,  In reviewing the thread I notice that I didn't respond to your weight support comment---we try to only body work when the jack stands are under the axles out close to the wheels---this brings up a good point---I think this winter we will try to build some type of pad so that we can STOP lifting the car by the axles---this may have caused some of our "deflection"---

maybe now we now know why Jack C Lifts his cars with their special trailers   :cry:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 22, 2014, 09:24:05 AM
Lexan Help

I have been running searches but can not seem to find it!

I need to form an 8" x 26" x .092 piece of Lexan or something into a a big U with about a 5" radius on the front that I look through. 

My Sr. mind seems to recall something about Olive oil  :?


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on July 22, 2014, 11:03:26 AM
ixian.ca/gallery/albums/userpics/Lexan_fabrication_guide.pdf


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: tauruck on July 22, 2014, 11:17:28 AM
Lexan Help

I have been running searches but can not seem to find it!

I need to form an 8" x 26" x .092 piece of Lexan or something into a a big U with about a 5" radius on the front that I look through. 

My Sr. mind seems to recall something about Olive oil  :?

I used hot olive oil to soften it to make cups on my popper lures.
SteveM has an oven at work he used to shape his windows. I'm sure he'll help you.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: doug odom on July 22, 2014, 09:03:59 PM
Sparky, Per our phone call. I found my old notes on Lexan forming.
Preheat at 250*  one hour for each .015 thickness of material to remove the moister trapped in the material.
 This will help keep the material clear with no bubbles when you heat it to 375* to form or bend it.  

See ya in a couple weeks,

 Doug in big ditch


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 23, 2014, 10:55:39 AM
Emergency Procedures & bailout: eng bay fire

Please opine!

1. Master
2. Fuel shut off manual
3. Chutes 1&2
4. Fire Bottles as needed
5. Brake as can  (thinking slowing, slowing do not open canopy until stopped)   slowing, slowing do not open canopy until stopped
6.  Stopped---release belts:
     Lap and shoulder---
7. Open Canopy
8. Clear belts
9. Leg release
10.   OUT


This is for my car  I welcome thoughts!  What am I missing?



Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Glen on July 23, 2014, 11:09:30 AM
Sparky always turn to the inside of the course as that's where the emergency equipment is located and makes the timing tower aware of a issue.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Ron Gibson on July 23, 2014, 11:27:45 AM
Sparky
i would be releasing the belts and harness as the car is slowing. That way as soon as it is stopped you can bail out, instead of having to unbuckle first.

Ron


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: SPARKY on July 23, 2014, 01:06:05 PM
Thanks Glen--

Ron  No less than TB might debate that with you-- at the USFRA Test and Tune he told me of breaking his arm from the restraints only at a speed in the past that he may have already released his belts.


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: jdincau on July 23, 2014, 01:17:03 PM
Lexan Help
I have been running searches but can not seem to find it!
Sparky,
     I copied this reply from this forum back in 2005

"Called the lexan help line:
Cold forming:
  you can cold form XL 10 --a curve that has a radius that is 100 times the Thickness
---i.e.  9.3 inches in this case without stress marks or cracks.
Hot Forming:
  in a convection oven at 320 deg. F with a top and bottom forming mold or frame.
  This will make it take a set---as this stuff has a memory. 

   32"x44"  .093 at Home Depot  $30.00

  "Sparky"
Lakester 2211"


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Kiwi Paul on July 23, 2014, 02:24:43 PM
Sparky....As you exit...Does the steering wheel have a quick release? Most are awkward to remove with gloves still on...Are you getting out a certain way because of your Hans/Cage interraction? How about a particular area of the cage to grab as you hoist out? All these things can, and do, hang you up, and some have panicked in these situations. I know you will practice and have it down, though...


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
Post by: Stainless1 on July 24, 2014, 10:03:23 AM
How did you know you had a fire?  Hard to do in a rear engine car... I will bet you will find out when the chase truck runs up and says "are you on fire" or when you are getting out and see the flames...
not just smoke... "where there's smoke there's fire" works in the forest, race cars can smoke without being on fire, hopefully you can open a panel or have an external port to see flames... maybe a small lexan window since you have a metal car....
Easier to tell a fiberglass car is on fire... you see the dingles floating by   :cry:


Title: Re: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank
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