MacDraft -- a great tool which can be terribly frustratingYes, they all can be.
Colorado Dave "Great looking build, are you going to have her finished for Speedweek this year??" -- That is my intention. I will post further photos this evening as it is more complete that shown. Unfortunately, I will be away from my build site from March 10th until early June, so the engine rebuild, carburation, and wiring will have to wait until then. I will actually be in Colorado during that time. Where are you?We are in Colorado Springs area, I'm northern El Paso county and my dad and the race bikes are in town
Now your talking!!!!!!!......don't forget to connect the mount off the front of the cyl-head to keep the vibs down................looking good..........................................................................................The head steady would have to be connected to the crossmember behind the motor, as I will do for the B50 motor, but should still work. The 650 parallel twin should not have quite the fore & aft vibration of the relatively unbalanced B50 (60% balance factor). The A65 motor would not be much of a performer as is, for one it is actually 654cc and would have to compete against some seriously fast 750's. Perhaps a de-stroking of the crankshaft would turn it on a bit. If Ed V. is reading this, I'm sure he could accomplish this.
An A10 motor might allow the tranny to be moved back and give you more room.............and a smoother ride! I love the idea of building the chasis for optional motors.The A10 would be an interesting choice. It is, I think, 648cc, and could run in the Vintage class. Also, 5 & 6 speed transmissions would be easily adapted, which is not the case for the B50. Thanks for the comments.
That is a big improvement. The problem is knowing when to stop.
Wobbly,
If you look closely at my photo, you'll notice that the original B50 cases (1971 vintage) had oil scrapers built into the crankcase halves. The theory is that oil clinging onto the flywheels causes drag. In my motor, the flywheels are actually from a 250 cc motor and are smaller in diameter than the 500cc flywheels. Hence the original scrapers did not function. Here's hoping that BSA, Bill Jenkins, and others sources that I have read are correct!
Tom
50 more day until Speedweek, are you gonna gave it all ready to go?? looks great and we look forward to the competition. :cheers:Actually, Dave, only 19 days until Loring, which is my goal. I probably won't make it back to Bonneville until BUB, because that's when my pit crew of one returns, and we also like to take in the Bonnevile GP at Tooele. I do so hope to get to Speedweeks sometime, to meet all the interesting people I have heard from on this forum.
I actually had to put the clevises in the mill
Only 10 more days.
Hey Koncrete, congratulations on getting a time you wanted. I'm curious. I only ran once at Bonneville and in 1969 with a stock engine modified frame 250 cc we went 117.252. (on a 107 record) The fastest leg was 121.621. That was a 1967 engine. What am I missing that you're happy with your 117 with twice the displacement? Respectfully askin' :-)Hey vgabndo, what were you riding? The pushrod 250cc records are under 90 mph, and the pushrod 500cc records are from 112mph - 115mph currently. Still, Bonneville is more of a challenge than Loring because of the salt, the altitude, and the mile long run required for record, plus a return run. I will need everything and then some to get a record.
I don't think the belly pan will be a problem. The zip ties holding it on might be though.Thanks for the heads up! I'll slot 4 of the holes and use hose clamps. It will give the techs something to complain about, in any case.
Good start ... you have time to change more though
I did not get a chance to see your Bonneville BSA on the salt.....but did see it at the Miller track....very nice.....regarding the possible wrist pin problem......bean oil....bean oil.... Castor Racing Oil the only oil to use in OLD stuff..So far, I have pulled the top end off, including the cylinder, and can find no problems. Pin is free in the piston. I'll continue the tear down this weekend.
Morris still makes and sells the stuff....classicoilsupply@aol.com...804-261-4140...they will ship to you...
As best as I can remember, those engines needed frequent tear downs and inspections under racing conditions and the rod bearings were weak areas. Do not run it if makes new or loud noises like a loose rod bearing. It is best to tear it down and to investigate.Bo,
One thing I did on all tear downs was to mount the cranks between centers, check the flywheel run out with dial indicators, and to true the flywheel with a lead hammer. Usually I fussed with them till the runout was 0.002 inches or less on the flywheel periphery. I always thought the bearings lasted longer and the engines ran smoother with true flywheels.
Motor noises in a BSA are somewhat related to motor noises in a Triumph.............some are just more serious (expensive) than others. I hope your not trying to purchase the same fairing I am looking at for my T20! Hope to see you next year.
Great work..........so now you will be ready to run in a few weeks!I didn't realize you could use a roller bearing with a one piece crank. However, I am not disappointed with the plain bearing big end -- it is after all what all the modern 15,000 rpm rice burners use. I'll try it again with the newly balanced crank.
I am looking at the HD XR Fairings from airtech..........To bad they have openings for the handgrips. I will likely make my own by laying up glass over existing pieces gleaned from small bikes. At my speed I am concentrating on the front and sides only.
Since you have a 250cc crank........you may want to investigate big and small end roller bearings...........I have a roller on my big end from Alpha Bearing.
Beautiful and innovative solution(s). :o)Thanks for the complement!
Real cool to see a BSA running and winning!I re-questioned my balancer guy about the difference and he was not exactly clear. Maybe 18 grams one side, 13 on the other. Being 5 grams difference is a small amount, but then I noticed a bunch of new holes drilled in the flywheels, so I just have to trust him on this one. I'll know as soon as I'm able to re-start it, as the handlebars visibly shake at high rpm. And yes, great to make a slow bike fast -- sort of like making a slow car go fast. To me, a lot more satisfying than buying speed right off the shelf.
28 grams is all but an once- seems like a long way off to me. Add the 18 grams off on the other flywheel, and depending on their relationship to each other, it could be quite a bit!
Tom, I am not familiar with a 500cc single having a plain bearing rod big end. I cannot give advice based on direct experience. The twins had plain bearing big ends and most of my experience was with those. Special care was used to check the oilway clearances throughout the rest of the engine. A worn crank journal on the timing side, for example, would pass a lot of oil. This would reduce the amount of oil reaching the rod bearings and problems would occur with them.Bo,
A few questions. Is the oil hole for the rod bearing chamfered? Are you using an original Lucas spark advance with bob weights?
If you are going full bodywork why not just move the handlebars up higher (if possible) to clear the fairing easier?Dan, I can move my handlebars up, but they will still be wider than the fairing. I can also cut holes for my hands and forearms, but that doesn't seem like the best way. Making it wider at the front would seem to be better to me.
In order to retain as much of the fairing as tested in the tunnel......cut it down the middle and add a section in the middle to make it somewhat wider, that is what I am doing to our fairing in order to fit it on our new Rotax powered 125c.c.................................................................Thanks, Bak189. I have considered doing this, but it already seems wide enough at the bottom. Maybe I can add a wedge shaped piece, 0 at the bottom, and wider, about 6 more inches at the top. Then again, that Gustafson windshield wouldn't work. By the way, is the Rotax 125 you're going to use the same as the old CanAm 125? I believe they were all made by Rotax originally. Also, was the rider, Bob Barker, the same one that now sells Dunlop racing tires for vintage racers?
That is a low bike ... are you going to put a window in the nose ?.... you already look thru the steering neck to see forward.Yes, I am going to have to cut the CanAm fairing down almost to the point at which it turns under to form the fender area. That means a custom bubble type windscreen, for sure. I'll chip away at these issues over the winter -- at least I have time.
In the past I had the same task with a fiberglass fender. I ordered two of them and cut and spliced them together to get a fender for a wider tire. I cut one in half lengthwise and cut the center section out of the other. I spliced all three together to get the wider one I needed.Bo, thanks for the suggestion. I am even considering using sheet aluminum to fab up the rest of the fairing, maybe only as a mold. Know any good sheet metal workers?
Hi Tom,Dave,
How wide is the Can Am fairing? How did it compare to the Harley XRTT
and the other LSR fairings available?
Thanks, Dave
Tom, will you be using metal or fiberglass?Bo,
the motor siezed-up at 138mph."
Engine stuck-up on the return run.......................................
No part of the tailpiece can be less than 4" from the ground. If you do not attach the belly pan to the tail you are good. If you attach the tail to the belly pan it all has to be 4" or more from the ground.Thanks,Fred,
tom,
using a big arc to get off of the course isn't a problem with my bike.
the steering is 15 degrees on either side.
bf
We cut the fairing today, after bumping out the sides, compare original Can Am fairing, front view, with current view. Width is now up to 23". It feels good, being able to turn the handlebars without restriction. Maybe a bit more frontal area, but hopefully the new shape will still be good. Side view before and after cutting. Hopefully, I'll be able to get someone (trying Gustafsson first) to make me a bubble for the front. In the front view with the rider, you can see what is left of the original Can Am fairing in white. Not much, but Doug said it was still a huge help to get the compound curves of the front and lower fairing right. Another problem I have to deal with it ground clearance. Because of the belly of the new fairing, I am down to 1". Bumps will be a problem! New front tire will add 1/4", and I can squeeze another 1/4" at the triple clamps. That's all!:roll:Looking good Tom. The 1.5" clearance worries me though. We might consider a "drop down" upper tripple clamp to lower the forks a little more. Can Doug machine a set?
Tom
1" is too low ... I found out the hard way ...
Joe
I see that you and Lars use the same shifter ... JoeYes, and on the right side you will find another alternative shifter in the following photos.
Tom,Rex,
I am attaching a sketch of how you can use your engine exhaust to extract the air from you engine shroud. Porsche used this same idea to pull cooling air through the intercooler on their small 1.4 liter turbo 911 back in the mid 70s and it works very well and it is free and it works when ever the engine is running and does not increase your aero drag. This idea is also used by many experimental aircraft builders to move air through their aircooled engines and reduce aero drag.
Rex
Welding and Heli-Coils should fix the cases. I hope you're able to repair or replace the rest of the parts quickly.Peter,
Good luck!!!!
Pete
Not only does it look fast.............IT IS FAST 8-) 8-) 8-) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Too bad about the cases.............Maybe fill and re-tap for added strength..........think about running a much lighter chain on single-sprockets to reduce mass.............consider a chain-tensioner/idler on the slack-side when under power..............lots of teflon lube between runs may be sufficient so no oil drag and minor need to have an oil-tight case & cover.
Six weeks is a long time when your having too much fun :lol: :lol: :lol:
Keenserts are solid threaded inserts.( internal and external threads ).Bill,
after being installed they are locked into the material
with on board "pins".
the jergens company might be the manufacturer.
bill
what was the increase in mile an hour with the fairing ?
Hi TomDon,
What type of screws do you use now? Have you thought about flat head allans as they hold pretty good with the area of the countersink.
And maybe use 10 or 12 in your cover and drill & tap it in a mill if you can so they all line up perfect, then with some thread locker it should be good to go.
Don
Some info here, time-serts may need less 'room'Graham,
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/time-sert-threaded-inserts-76322/
Well done on the speed increase! :cheers:
Tom, something is wrong when six screws come loose at the same time. A screw is like a spring. Tightening it stretches it and the tension holds it tight. The tension stress must be within the elastic limits of the screw metal - and this tension includes the load placed on screw. In other words, the tension must not be great enough to permanently stretch the screw. The stretched screw comes loose.Bo,
Examine your screws closely under magnification. Are they stretched? If so, the repair must include some way of reducing the tension on the screws or using screws that can withstand more tension.
1.20 SAE correction? Dang. Well at least the jetting will good at 7500' DA.
Wow. I've never seen anything like that on a bike. Cracks are often from vibration induced metal fatigue.
I had a moment of clarity last night at work and thought I saw another similarity between the cracks, came home this morning and looked again to verify. For what it's worth it looks to me like all of the cracks originate at the toe of a weld in or adjacent to a non-triangulated part of the structure. If you want to continue to run this thin wall frame I'd bet you can get away with it by adding more triangulation to the seat/tail subframe and beefing up the lower motor mount area with some thicker tube sleeved over the existing tubes. :cheers:Ed,
The chassis Briz built looks plenty strong and low. One like it should hold up well with the BSA if the big Westlake could not break it.
It helps to build a model of a frame with balsa wood; then apply force and see what moves or breaks first.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Tom, once it's all back together and at the Dyno, can you get hold of a strobe to "watch" things move?
Can I learn to tig weld in a couple of days?
Can I learn to tig weld in a couple of days?
Depends..do the parts really have to stay together for any significant amount of time???? :-D
Get your friend to stand over your shoulder for a couple of hours, for a couple of days, and you should have a pretty fair handle on it. Looks like you have lots of scrap to practice on. Just put that "Power Fist" bead blaster to work and clean up where you're going to weld on the practice stuff. The next trick is going to be getting the old tubing in the frame perfectly clean before you weld it. A final wipe with an acetone soaked rag before you weld makes sure you're contamination free. Put the rag where you won't light it up after. That flicker on your bench or beside your hand on the jig is usually that rag. Guess how I know? :-D :-D :-DThanks for the tips, Pete - - I was hoping that would get your attention. As for getting Steve to look over my shoulder for a few days, I can't even get him over here to check on what I've done so far (like many one-man operations, he's too busy.) That's the main reason why I want to get my own Tig. I have already sandblasted the existing frame parts I am going to re-use. The acetone trick sound like a good one, as things begin to rust in N.S. when you turn around.
Pete
Right on. :-D I heard woof and wondered why my dog was in the workshop. Fire!!! It only happened once. Any combustible is now kept in a different room.
Jon,Can I learn to tig weld in a couple of days?
Did you used to fusion weld or Braze Tom?
If you did the action and what your looking at will be very familiar.
Get someone to help you with settings, keep things very clean and practice on some scrap and you'll be TIG welding sooner than you think.
jon
.... We should have planned things better. I could have come down and visited my daughter and her family north of Halifax over Christmas and then spent a couple of days with you on the bike and it would be well on the way to done.
Pete
Don,I believe you're right that gas and maybe mig are acceptable, but the certification requires samples be submitted to the cert organization done in all types to which the certification applies.
Never personally knew Ronnis but sure admired some of the cars he built, a true craftsman. I learned the gas welding 4130 from an old aircraft building book I used to have. There was a long time that gas welding was the only accepted method for welding 4130 tubing in small airplanes. Now days almost anything is accepted I think MIG is even used on some planes.
Rex
lobster is up to 3 dollars a pound in Nova Scotia ?
Bill
Your son looks happy eating that lobster. Is he interested in racing?Bo,
KK - Just read all 30 pages... Seriously impressed with this build! Hope to see you on the salt this fall...Stu,
Stu
Looking really good Tom. Are you going to buy the TIG now and weld it up yourself?Pete,
You're reminding me why I like going down there to visit my daughter and her family.
Pete
Yes, welding on cold, damp steel definitely plays hell with the weld bead..... I seem to remember that aircraft requirements for Tig welding 4130 recommends preheating with an acetylene torch....From everything I've read, no preheat is required for thinwall 4130 in the normalized condition. Thin wall is described as less than .120". I've used .060". However, they also recommend welding at "room temperature", from 60* -70* F. I don't think 45* in the humidity we have here is N.S.qualifies! Knowing what I know now, I will always use a bit of preheat to at least drive off any condensation that may have precipitated during the night.
:cheers:
Fordboy
Your welds are looking pretty good for no amperage control "on the fly". :cheers:Ed,
Looking at the frame I do see one potential problem. The seat hoop is sticking up a long way and only supported at one point on each end. This is another crack waiting to happen since it's going to start shaking like a tuning fork once the engine is singing. I think you need to gusset it to the tail fairing support on both sides. Simple flat plates on the outside welded to both uprights should take care of it. :-)
Have you considered welding in a carb support? :-P
Hi Tom
Neat bike looking very nice, you will get the hang of it just takes some time.
One thing you could do is sharpen 6 or 8 tungstens and put some holes in a wood block for each, then you can just keep going and not have to re-sharpen your tungsten each time you ' Dip the Wick '
Better for kinda keeping the flow going, then sharpen all at one time.
On my Miller i had a 0-5 second timer installed so i could spot tack thin sheet metal and not burn through, the timer would start when the arc started and it worked great.
Neat machines to have!!
Don
Rose likes to make soot. She would dice up firewood from the trees after I dropped them when we were first married and she still likes to do it.Bo,
Thanks for the complement, Dennis. And Mike, I think I'm almost ready, but with the revised ratio rocker arms my valves will come very close together on the overlap at TDC - - about .025-.30" short of touching.
" the reed valve prevents the case from refilling and if your engine is pretty tight, a real challenge for anything from England"
Rex
Looks good Tom
Can you cover in the back rim for less drag, I'm not near a rule book, I thought the front had to be 20% open and the back can be fully covered.
Cheers
jon
The BIG problem for the Can Am bike was the long tail. It was efficient but killed handling in a wind.I've never seen the long tail version. Any pictures?
That bike was a lovely project.
FREUD
Stuff rattling loose is often due to something being compressed or stretched beyond the elastic deformation limit. Things I look for are washer compression, bolt or stud stretching, or compression of the parts clamped together by the bolts. The bolts are strong steel and the clamped parts are weaker aluminum. Compression deformation would probably be in the aluminum.
safety wire :wink:Roy,
Stuff rattling loose is often due to something being compressed or stretched beyond the elastic deformation limit. Things I look for are washer compression, bolt or stud stretching, or compression of the parts clamped together by the bolts. The bolts are strong steel and the clamped parts are weaker aluminum. Compression deformation would probably be in the aluminum.Bo,
Tom,Bill,
what size hole are you using for safety wire?
what size wire?
bf
maybe ask Mr google the following question "drill jig for nut safety wire" it returns a LOT of things, some of which might even be useful. :-D
My guess is that whatever is going to happen will probably occur within those first 1000 cycles.I'm not sure about this. If our average run time is 3 minutes at 8000 RPM, we have just subjected our fasteners to 24,000 cycles. I would feel better if tests were performed for a much higher number of cycles. Of course, metals have fatigue limits and I imagine materials like Loctite do too.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
That is because drill bits can't drill in at an angle, should snap the little ones in no time... that's why they sell the little ones in 10 packs :-DThis and the post by Peter Jack, of course, are the way most of us learned to corner drill nuts. Lots of bits and patience are required as well as extra nuts because of the ones we ruined, some with part of the drill bit still in the hole.
if you can mill a small flat, it will drill a lot better... in a pinch drill in straight a little, then change your angle, drill a little more, then change your angle, you get the picture until you are drilling the direction you want to drill for the hole.
Buy a 10 pack of 1/16ths :cheers:
A few places like Aircraft Spruce sell a fixture that will allow you to drill the hex bolt corners without breaking those small drills. It is essentially a drill guide. Cobalt drills are good for drilling Grade 8 bolts for safety wire.My fixture definitely didn't come from Aircraft Spruce, more likely, gangman industries! The included angle for the nut to rest in isn't even correct, so the nut does not make intimate contact with the jig allowing the bit to bend. Breaks the bit every time.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
I also use the 3/32" bit with .032 inch wire.I have tried the star washers, but the ones I've seen are too flimsy to prevent a grade 8 nut from backing out. I don't think they would be acceptable for fork nuts, for example. Also, the 3/32" bit is more than double the strength of the 1/16", so is easier to use without breaking it. I wouldn't use the 3/32" on smaller nuts because of possible weakening of the nut.
it would be easier to use the flat star washers with the safety wire tab on them.
the tab is positioned to pull the nut or bolt in the right direction.
there are about 3 tabs that fold up onto the flat of the nut or bolt.--
1 tab is all that's needed to hold.
Bf
Tom...........your owner's manual gives instructions on the de-coke requirement for the piston and valves. Looks like a little extra fuel & carbon in your oil.......Dennis,
There are oil testing services that will analyze the oil and give you some recommendations. A lady where I work sends in samples from her diesel truck and when the lab indicates the oil needs to be changed, she changes it. I think she uses Amsoil and they test it. Some of the labs can give you a lot more info than when to change the oil and this might help you.Bo, I am aware of this service. Caterpillar used to check our oils for our trucks but it was expensive. I should pay the piper and get it done.
As for drilling my nuts, I use a method somewhat like yours.
Tom,Sure looks that way. It must have been the 17 pulls on the Dyno after the rebuild. I'm thinking that because I re-used the rings that they essentially needed to re-seat themselves. I should have changed the oil before Loring, but I had only a week to put the bodywork on and make some other adjustments. I did drop the sump (dry sump) to check for metal, but I guess I just forgot to change the oil.
Your oil looks like it has been contaminated by combustion, blow by past rings and fuel down the cylinder wall.
Rex
Hi TomThey sound like they should work. Are they much better than the all steel grade 8 locknuts that I am using? In any case, I'll be testing Loctite at the BUB speed trials.
Have you ever tried the Aircraft all metal loc nuts, they have a little washer built in with a size smaller hex head and a thin section on top that is crimped to a oval shape
They are meant for one time use only, because it expands the oval shape
They hold damb good, yrs ago Bell used them to build the choppers with and they shake pretty good too
G Don
The different rocker arms might change the valve timing enough to account for the differences you are seeing in cranking compression ratios.Along with the retarding of the cam, with later closing of the exhaust valve, maybe?
More information on the dirty oil
I checked compression today and got 190 psi, using my roller starters with the bike in 1st gear. I then checked my B50 roadracer, which I rebuilt several years ago. Its compression was 210 psi. The roadracer is standard bore and stroke, 84.5 x 90, while the landspeed bike is 92 x 75. Both use a Megacycle X4 camshaft. The Landspeed bike cam is retarded about 2-1/2 degrees, and has higher lift rockers (about 10% more lift). Compression ratio on the roadracer is about 12.5/1, while the landspeed bike is about 13.25/1.
Does the 2.5 degrees of cam retard give you the bhp/torque peaks where you want them?
Would the lower compression reading of the landspeed motor be significant in this case? Well, it's less. 9.6% less in fact. This indicates a LOWER effective C/R than your other engine, REGARDLESS of the build differences.
Chris (Milwaukee Midget) sent my a personal message and I responded to his questions with this:
"Chris,
For the dyno runs, I was using last years BUB Speed Trials 110K which had been stored in a closed plastic container. For the Loring event, I used event gas, but it was a new vendor and I don't know what their designation was. It was supposed to be equivalent to VP's C-12.
I don't have the equipment to do a leak-down test, but I just did a compression test which yielded 190 psi (about 10 compression cycles, bike in 1st gear, roller starter on rear wheel)
As for crankcase vacuum, I got 12-13 inches of H2O when running the motor at rest with no load. I don't know what I was getting during the runs, but I did see oil drips from the exhaust pipe after the runs, and had oil in the reed valve when I took it apart.
There is another possibility. I had of course drained my oil when I pulled the bike apart last winter and drained the oil tank as well. I usually blow the oil out of the oil tank by pressurizing the vent hose, which forces the oil out of the tank very quickly. I say usually; it's possible that I just let it run out on its own last winter, but not likely as it takes about 15 minutes to empty that way. On the possibility that I didn't blow it out then, I did blow it out this time. It's therefore possible that I blew out some sludge that had settled in the oil tank, got shook up, and then got blown out yesterday."
Regardless, I'll run at BUB speed trials and change the oil after a few runs to check it.
Tom
The different rocker arms might change the valve timing enough to account for the differences you are seeing in cranking compression ratios.
Man that is ugly. 70% leak down is probably more than 4hp. At the least I would clean up the valves and seats and lap the valves. also the exhaust port looks funny whats up with that?
Hi TomYes, Don, the seat is too far out on the edge, and the wavy pattern was probably caused by the valve being slightly bent. I'm re-thinking the new rocker arms, as the valves come within about .30" from hitting each other at TDC. Actually, I'm having a new larger valve made for next year, as the bowl has been enlarged too far to move the seat. The piston is ceramic coated, so I can't soften the edges anymore. I did actually knock of the sharp edges before the coating, but maybe not enough.
I cant see the seat on the ex too good but looks like a wavy pattern either on the seat or above it?
If your seat is outboard of that it look too narrow, for better heat transfer the seat needs to be brought in a touch and have a .020 border with a wider seat on the ex side
Your valve might be getting to hot and helping with the detonation, plus the intake valve pocket on the piston has some sharp edges right at the top flat area and that is not good either
If you are not going to take the piston out I would bring it to the top clean off the top & deck and tape off the area so the chips & alum dust don't get in the bore
Take a cartridge roll and round off those sharp areas then scotchbrite and smooth things up and that should help
Those sharp edges like to glow, and that's bad JUJU in a motor!!!
Hope this helps Tom, Don
Congratulations Tom.No frame cracks, no loose nuts (debatable). I have several options for the future, but I'll probably use a stock stroke crankshaft for next year to make it a 600. Problems are lower rpm and trying to find a small enough rear sprocket for the lower RPM. Just thoughts so far. A few more photos from the salt showing Ed, my pit man, the naked bike, and me on the bike at mile 5 waiting to do a return run.
Sounds like you had a fun and successful meet.
No mention of frame cracks or self loosening bolts is good news.
Do you have a "next round" plan for the bikes?
Cheers
jon
Quote:Yes, I like your number better!
But my runs at BUB were amazing! They are as follows: (500 APS-PG)
8/25, 11:03, 70.1*, DA:5900ft, wind 0, down run: 141.029
8/25, 12:01, 71.2*m DA:5990, wind 3 mph NE, return run: 144.714
Average speed:142.871 mph
8/26, 7:56, 68.8*, DA 5829, wind 6 SE, down run: 144.042
8/26, 9:16, 71.5*, DA 5983, wind 0, return run: 142.616
Average speed:143.239
Why isn't the average 143.329 ?
FREUD
Your records are on the list. They are pretty solid and might be there for awhile.Thanks, Bo,
Lousy one Tom. To figure that one out after the fact hurts. IMO it's human nature to look for the most complicated problem first instead of the simple one. I could give an example of what happened to me and how stupid I was at the time but admin doesn't allow foul language here!. :-D. Backup batteries are a must.Sometimes in the heat of the battle, we don't think straight. My pit man, Ed, had left earlier in the day, so I was on my own. At least I thought of the solution on the long drive home and it was correct -- consolation!
One thing left to do is to bump the compression way up, run alcohol, and tune it like a speedway bike.Bo,
Those look like 500 cc engine sized flywheels. This might cure some of the vibe problem.Bo,
Tom, I have very little to add to the envelope................but did glean this from some drag-racer conversation. You could run the SC from the clutch, the tranny, or a jack-shaft on the chain. The latter would tend to slow the SC down and give you better control. Another discussion revealed the rider installed a switch on the shift-drum so his ELECTRIC SC would only run from 3rd gear and up.Dennis,
I think your existing RAM-AIR system is a significant contributor to your speed.
Think about the cumulative years of racing experience on this site. It must be incredible.
Tom, pressure enhancement was something I am looking at in the future. Advice given to me by experts on this forum is a turbo. It makes sense. The power driving it would go out the tail pipe, otherwise.Bo,
The book "Engine Math" by John Baechtel ISBN 978-1-934709-47-4 is available and it has a chapter on reading maps, etc.
I like that term "pressure enhancement". I just sent of a check for an Aisin AMR300 supercharger. I've had a bee in my bonnet for a while now to put a blower on the Weslake. This one showed up so next year will be in the blown class. Having zero experience with blowers it should make for a fun learning curve.Nortonist,
Tom, during my years working with field diagnosis at the dealers, we learned to trust actual airflow measurement. We found the correlation between measured airflow and actual power was pretty good, especially on well mapped engines (it was all production stuff, of course). Stay with me, here, you'll see where I am headed a little further down...
There were two keys to our diagnostic work:
- did the peak airlow measurement (non-supercharged) calculate to the factory power curve, and then appear relational with supercharger fitted?
- for either mode, does the airflow graph (using wide open throttle from minimum useable rpm) exhibit linear change?
Bumps or sags in the power curve, accompanied by changes in dBG of intake harmonics, signals a problem in the airflow measurement at the hot wire. This was usually caused by loose or badly shaped intake components or chambers. If something creates pulsing or turbulence in the airflow, the AFM will have ranges of inaccuracy and engine performance will be non-linear throughout the powerband.
The beauty of positive displacement blowers is that you can choose your horsepower target (based on airflow desired) and then choose an appropriate blower volume based on the maps provided. If you find a need for a little more airflow (boost) through the midrange, but need some control at high rpm WOT, the solution is a simple restrictor plate ahead of the blower intake.
For those who wish to work in a more controlled supercharged environment, positive displacement blowers can serve us well and be a little easier on our wallets. I hope there is something useful here...I only worked on these problems after someone else had made the important choices.
There I went again...rambling on and on....
Regards, JimL
Nortonist,
Where did you get your AMR300? From what I've read about the AMR300, it produces about 300cc per revolution. You'll need about 600cc every other revolution, or 300cc per revolution but won't get any boost at that. So it seems you need to overdrive it, and it's a CW rotation blower, I believe, so you might want to use a jackshaft across the motor which would both reverse the drive direction and allow for overdrive. Your installation should be similar to what I would need, so I hope you'll keep us posted. Are you planning draw thru or blow thru?
Tom
Stuart Hooper seems to have sorted blown singles out ok.GenShov,
http://thevintagent.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/171-mph-on-velocette.html
He ran just before me @ Lake G, but I didn't
get the chance to chat, or have a good look.
Right now ts a bit like making rabbit stew. First I have to catch the rabbit. Hopefully the blower will be here early next week. I'm sure there will be more question than answers. Generatorshovel has the big question in my mind. What to do with the unused boost between power pulses. Initially the thought was to have a big plenum. With a big pop off valve. Lots of thoughts but first I have to catch the rabbit.
Tom, My reference of adding to the envelope was to the SHORT size :-DDennis,
You may get some ideas from this blog......... http://www.smokeandthrottle.com/2011/01/supercharged-triumph-tiger-cub-goes-for.html
I fully understand the rule restrictions for production and modified............but why the restriction concerning the turbo-SC drive-system on an A-Class bike? I thought SPEED was the objective :-(
I know its not a four stroke but the Buddfab 50cc streamliner is a very effective turbo single at 233 km/h.I wanted to thank Tofu for reminding us that the Buddfab is indeed a turbocharged single cylinder, 2 stroke at that. I would love to see the plumbing for that. Of course, a 2 stroke does fire on every stroke and turns some very high RPM, so probably cannot be compared to our "slow" revving 4 strokes that fire on every other stroke.
http://buddfab.net/buddfabhomepage.html
..... So although the purchase of a Megasquirt system makes sense, even without the fuel injection, the question is how to have active gauges indicating AFR and Cylinder Head or Exhaust Temperature along with the controller/data logging function?.... Tom
Sum,..... So although the purchase of a Megasquirt system makes sense, even without the fuel injection, the question is how to have active gauges indicating AFR and Cylinder Head or Exhaust Temperature along with the controller/data logging function?.... Tom
MegaSquirt can't read AFR directly it needs to receive it from a wide band O2 sensor controller. So what I'd recommend is using something like Innovate's MTX-L .......
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innovate-mtxl-gauge-sensor-controller-3844-p-467.html (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innovate-mtxl-gauge-sensor-controller-3844-p-467.html)
..... that you mentioned as it has the sensor, controller and the gauge and can send the AFR to the MS. We use 2 on Hooley's Stude and I'll probably use one on my car with the MS. The gauge is pretty easy to read even under the light levels on the salt.
I'm not aware of an EGT gauge that you can view and that can also send data onto a recording device, but they might be out there. We have had a gauge in the Stude in the past, but at high speed it is something that can't really be looked at very easily as the gauge is small. Will you have time to view them on a run? You can easily pass thermocouple data from a sensor onto the MS.
DIYAutoTune.com's MS3-Pro, their version of MS, does now have Wideband AFR target tables so that possibly could work to your advantage with the limited time to get the fuel mapping correct. I'm not sure how fast it learns. I think it is still going to be hard to develope fuel maps without dyno time or street time like your friend although we had lunch the other day with a friend and his wife in Colorado that builds circle track and other high HP motors for a living and he has been using some of the new 'self learning' fuel injections systems and is quite impressed with how fast you can tune them on the dyno,
Sum
The Bazazz bike EFI systems have the ability to be self mapping during a dyno run, according to what people tell me. They say it dramatically reduces the hours on the dyno that normally go into mapping.Bo,
Tom,Queezyryder,
With a blown bike motor it is worth putting some fuel thru' the blower, as this will cool the blower lobes/screw and also will keep the charge temp down. It doesnt need to be much, maybe as little as 10-15%
Good luck
Neil
...I agree that reading gauges is almost impossible at full speed, but the MST-D gauges also have led lights around the perimeter which can be programmed like "idiot" lights which might catch my eye if they are bright enough. Otherwise, it's nice to have a look at AFR and CHT before the start of each run as well as the end to get a sense of where things are. The logging feature with an SD card which can be plugged into a laptop, read, and recorded are what I'm after for now. ..... Tom
Tom, that's a difficult one.Mikey,
I'd say put the holes where the salt won't reach.
Do you think two are enough?.
Tom, as you move down the course, the intake pressure will be greater than the loss through the carb. I would try mount the intake tubes to the chamber at an angle.........near bottom or top........baloney cut..........to increase the immediate volume of air for start-up.Dennis,
I have been looking at something similar for my Tiger Cub.........but not sure if legal for Modified.
Dennis,
Did you measure the piston clearance after compressing the base and head gaskets? If your using more than a .025 thickness head-gasket (copper) you might want to try a thinner unit. Otherwise Dave tells me the base-gasket could be lost to a thin layer of sealer. Will be interesting to see what you measure for clearance after a few heat-cycles.
| Max speed ft/s Air flow needed lbf/h scoop area for max speed scoop area for 100ft/s 176 420 1.18 sq/in 2.1 sq/in 198 600 1.5 3.0 220 840 1.9 4.2 242 1020 2.09 5.1 257 1200 2.32 6.0 |
I received new pushrods on Wednesday, July 16 at 9:00 PM. The courier driver said he wouldn't have been in my area until 5:00 PM, but I guess my bitching to Fed-Ex paid off, he got the message, I got my package in the morning!
It tuned out that the old pushrods were too short and not too long. Luckily, the Smith Brothers ones were about a 1/16" longer, and with a tulip shaped upper cup, they looked fine. I had the bike back together and running by 10:30, loaded everything up and made the ferry to New Brunswick at 4:00. I left the fairing behind so I could sort things out with the open bike. Thursday was just a tech inspection day at Loring, but as I am one of the inspectors, I try to get there on time.
First runs Friday afternoon were disappointing, as we kept bogging down before we got to the mile. That night it dawned on me that some dummy had lowered the float level because the carb was flooding last fall on a dyno session. We raised the float level and installed a new battery for good measure and started to get some results. Our best run Saturday was 128 mph.
We made a timing change and a jetting change on Sunday morning but started bogging down again. Subsequent jetting changes did nothing, so I again changed the float level and we got one last run in at noon of 130.38 mph at the 1-1/2 mile. Bonneville should be interesting!
Tom
Congrats Tom, you are my hero!
(http://i62.tinypic.com/1pxnbq.jpg)
You are doing real well, Tom. You are showing consistent speeds, are able to stay fast, and your engines are lasting. Thats a good combination.Thanks Jim. It mean a lot coming from the current record holder(SCTA) in my class with a bike with as much innovation as yours. I presume you will be back again to raise the bar.
Again, Congratulations! I hope you can put together a "160+" record next year.
JimL
... I was looking at self retracting calipers...I'm a little bit confused (nothing new!). All OEM calipers I've dealt with had self-retraction designed into the cross-sectional shape of the seals. :?
... figure out an easy way to back off the pucks...Every now and then the rear caliper on my Guzzi V50 starts to drag. I now carry a T-handle Allen wrench to quickly loosen the two mounting bolts and push the caliper side-to-side a little, then tighten the bolts; takes about a minute and then I'm good for another few hundred miles. Would something like that work for you? [Yeah, I should replace the old high-mileage parts]
Just a note: I was taught to disassemble old calipers and pistons and seals in a bucket of hot, soapy water. Drop the caliper into the hottest water you can work in. Anything to do with brake fluid is water soluble in some manner, even the rust.
Tom, a rebuilt caliper in good condition should have seals that retract the pistons a little bit like Jack says. Sometimes it is hard to get them to do that. In the past I have put springs on the pins between the pucks to spread them apart. A problem was, they spread them apart too far. Then, I took the springs out and fit little pieces of rubber oil line on the pins. The segments were just long enough to spread the calipers a little bit. That worked. The ultimate and final solution I did was to fit new seals and stainless steel pucks.Bo,
Chris,
Hi Tom, just started reading this, it's good stuff. We have a few things in common, I'm in my sixties & will be at Speed Week this year with my blown Indian Scout. I also live just outside Yarmouth.....in the UK! And finally, I've used wood many times to "Mock up" my frames. I worked out the length of mine by laying on the floor with a tape measure nipped between my toes. When I did the mock-up it was too long & had to be shortened 7". Saved a lot of time & money. Best of luck with everything. Chris.
Good luck, Tom. Belated happy birthday, yesterday(?).Thanks, Bill, and we had decent luck. I just returned from Loring last night. I tried the ram-air system again, but it did not work. I removed it and on Sunday I set a new personal best record of 151.6 mph! The interesting thing was that I gained about 11 mph from the mile to the mile-and-a-half, so the bike was apparently still accelerating. Bonneville should be interesting as I'll have another half mile to get up to speed........if we get there at all.
Good luck, Tom. Belated happy birthday, yesterday(?).Thanks, Bill, and we had decent luck. I just returned from Loring last night. I tried the ram-air system again, but it did not work. I removed it and on Sunday I set a new personal best record of 151.6 mph! The interesting thing was that I gained about 11 mph from the mile to the mile-and-a-half, so the bike was apparently still accelerating. Bonneville should be interesting as I'll have another half mile to get up to speed........if we get there at all.
You will be interested to know that Jimbo and "Junkyard Hog" Don R. set new personal bests as well, but I will let them update you on that.
Tom
Tom, in reference to that rear brake problem you had, an article about fabricating a rear brake is in the current issue (August 2015) of "The Horse Backstreet Choppers." According to the author "The last piece of engineering is very important and almost always missing on home made controls - the return spring. The master cylinder has its own tiny inner return spring that helps push the brake pedal back, but it is not strong enough to keep the pedal from building a slight amount of pressure on the brake system. Again, I take calls from customers who are having problems with their caliper locking up and 99.9 percent of the time it is because there is no return spring on the brake lever."Bo,
These are my 2 cents about slight drag on calipers. There are 2 tricks I use. One being that I back off the mounting bolts 1 full turn then safety wire both bolts. the other is on dual caliper style, I use springs on the pad mounting poles. This will reduce drag as well. However I do this on my Dragbike for 1/4 mile sprints, but works well.Marty,
Tom, have you considered swapping fork tubes side-to-side so the caliper would be on the front? I've done this (in reverse) with my old triples.
The double leading shoe brake from an old Honda 450 or 350 might work nice if you cannot get the disc setup to fit.I could do that Bo, but after converting to cast wheels for their better quality, I hate to revert back. I actually have both a Honda 350 spare complete wheel, and a real nice Honda 450 brake laced to an Excel rim on a Bridgestone race bike I built.
Tom...........could you 'hang' the caliper at 5-o'clock?Dennis,
Now that we'll probably need to run a front brake, I'm facing the same problem with levers.
My rear disc is rule compliant but so small that it's pretty much useless. The front is a 12" floating disc. My master cyl. is from a Suzuki GSXR 750 so it's got more than enough volume and power to work both discs at once so I'm going to tee the brake line and operate both discs with it. With the pads backed off the discs it might take a lot of pumping to get any stopping power but we'll see. That GXSR master can move a lot of fluid.
Besides, REAL men don't use brakes. :-D
Oh Sh!t!!!
Are you planning on go to Speed Week? We will be there.
Tom,
I do have to say, Tom, that your tranny mod is unique and the removal of the side "cover" is interesting but I do see a challenge to its replacement.
How fast were you going when you decided to do the "modification"?
Rex
Tom, do you have spares on the way?
I love multi-cylinder 2 strokes with expansion chamber exhaustBridgestone 350 rotary valve - - You're bikes are safe!
I love multi-cylinder 2 strokes with expansion chamber exhaust
I love multi-cylinder 2 strokes with expansion chamber exhaustBridgestone 350 rotary valve - - You're bikes are safe!I love multi-cylinder 2 strokes with expansion chamber exhaust
Sorry, but I don't have any Castrol-R for your olfactory senses :-D
Tom
If its any consolation KK this was the result of my last trip to El Mirage. Parts on the way.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/NkWSLj.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plNkWSLjj)
Remember those .5cc Cox model airplane engines? That was a nitro/bean oil mix we used.
That brings back some memories! :-o My first trip to B'ville in 1970 was with two friends racing a BSA 650 and a Bridgestone 350! Good combo: BS & BSA! :-D Looks like we have some common history! :cheers:
Mark,
That's a great idea! Is yours single shock or dual? What kind of spring rates can you get for the bike shocks? I will have to make massive changes to my frame to make the conversion because it has to fit under my quite narrow fairing and not have more than about 1" of sag and another 1" of travel before the rear tire will start hitting the frame.
Tom
Tom ... did you consider an under slung shock like a Harley softtail?Joe,
Joe
It is air with a lockout if I ever wanted to go back ridgid. I am unsure if it has a high enough spring rate, but for the price I thought I would give it a shot. I have a mono shock swingarm that has the stock linkage.
http://www.cyclingdealusa.com/DNM-Mountain-Bike-Air-Rear-Shock-With-Lockout-p/aoy-36rc.htm (I got the 200mm long one)
I have about the same travel on my bike, although I am going to raise it a half inch or so to clear the pipes that are nearly dragging as it is. I hope is doesnt screw up the ride.
You will find very short, "0-0" (no lash and even compression/rebound damping) shock absorbers on the side of various 4-cylinder engine blocks in fwd sedans back in the 90s. They are equipped with a very well sealed bellows over the shock rod because they must survive in heat, road salt, hot oil, coolant leaks, etc. You will find them bolted between the bell-housing area and the longitudinal cross-member under the middle of the engine bay.
You can select initial reaction by compression adjustment on the double-nuts at the top of the rod (for the upper rubber cushions). These will be about right to handle a "bike and rider" mass.
I used these at all four corners of a sub-1500 pound street rod and they worked great at about a 45 degree mounting angle. Should be cheap at the pick-a-parts.
Tom...maybe a curved bar-brace ahead of the tire and/or inside of the welded 'kinks'............otherwise......looking real good :-)Dennis,
This is what I did. The arms were extended 3 inches using butt welds. 1/4 inch thick gusset plates were welded on each side for a total of four plates. The vacant space in between the arms was boxed for strength.