Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: RichFox on January 17, 2006, 02:11:06 PM
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If I can post it here is the first picture of a Packard Powered Vega ever seen. Of course it needs a little work. Also the first Ford top loader/Packard mating.
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Rich,
Is this a Packard V8 or a Studebaker V8 after the two companies merged? Just curious, don't have any knowledge on the Packard, and not much more than that on the Studebaker.
Doug
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Rich says it'a Packard.
Glen
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It is a Packard 352 cubic inch V8. Made in '55 and '56 only. This is the same engine as used in the '56 Studebaker Golden Hawk. It was also made in 320 and 374 cubic inch displacements. The 320 engine was also used in '55 Hudson and Nash automobiles. I fully expect to have the worlds fastest Packard powered post war GM product.
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All you have to do is show up to have the fastest Packard powered post war car that I know of. I worked on one once and that is one stout piece, some heavy duty iron. Id love to see the pictures, Ive looked thru the photo section with no luck. Definetly thinking outside of the truck that hauled the box, good luck with it, love to see it happen.
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That was cool, as soon as I posted the pictures popped up, dont know what I did. I like it!
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Hi Rich, what's the motor with the red valve cover(s) in the background of the first picture, I don't recognise it.
Dave
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The motor with the red valve covers is a SOHC 3 Liter V6 Nissan. Similar to the one I had in Jack Costella's F/FS in 2000. As far as the Packard powered Vega goes, it only began to seem like a good idea, to me, after I started reading Jack Dolan's many posts.
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Thanks Rich! I've been working with Honda S2000 stuff (with red valve covers) and it threw me.
The Packard looks like fun. I may have a 352 laying around (from a 55 custom I did years ago, dropped a small block into it), If I still have it, it's yours! I think it had the "Ol' Tramatic" (Ultramatic) trans attached.
Dave
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I'll take it. Always happy to give a Packard a good home. I used to run in G/GR with a Lotus 907 (Jensen-Healey) motor. Had the record until George came out with his S2000 motor.
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Who sand bagged the G/GR record before you and George ?
I had a Packard many years ago that had a reverser in the Automajic and would shift to the higher gears if you went fast enough backwards.
Also if you got it going real fast in reverse and let go of the wheel the view was panoramic. :wink:
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Doc Jefferies and some other guy had the record before me. They used a Cosworth engine as I remember. Later on they bought a factory effort and did pretty good. I have no intention of running the Vega backwards unless Bennham gets a rear engine Altered class approved.
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That was a 2300 pinto replica block and a Ford Cosworth head like a Vegna that was available in the Rally Sport
Cortina in Europe.
The drive train that came with the 1 sedan was never used and the orher 2 were built in house. They put about 10% on all the classes they ran with another 10% still in reserve. :wink:
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That's interesting. I never knew much about your motor. I thought it was an Escort block from a Ford Seaira. Or a Cosworth BDP or somesuch. I was stunned by Don DeBring's record and thought it would last forever. Guess Rick was not as stunned as I.
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SCTA was so shocked at Don's performance with the little engine and the little car they wanted him to back it up at El Mirage. At the next Speedweek he went faster and they went away. :wink:
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Rich, Sorry to Hijack this thread - but what are you using as a scattershield, as I see you have not got one in the photos you are showing.
The reason I ask is due to the fact that I need to organise one for my Stovebolt six. I have a SBC one, but I don't yet have the steel plate that is available in the US, and will cost me heaps to import a lump of steel into OZ. I'm looking for a "cheaper" alternative. :eek:
Hey maybe some-one out there has an old one they are interested in selling. ;)
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Hopefully you can see in this picture the external home made scatter shield I am using. It bolts to the crossmember above and behind the block. The Packard has a cast on bellhousing so I can't use a hydroformed store bought bellhousing. This is the same scatter shield I used in this car when I had a 270 and 302 GMC in it. Not at the same time.
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Also. On my flathead Plymouth engine, I used a SB Ford scatter shield ( because I had one) and redrilled the block plate to match the Plymouth block. The top two holes also went through the bellhousing flange. Then I welded square stock to the inside of the block plate to use as stiffiners. Needed a little rework to mount the starter and an aluminum plate for the other end to space and locate the Pinto transmission I had and Bobs your uncle.
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Thanx for the explanation, and the pic.
Do you have to cover all the clutch set-up, or just the flywheel and clutch plate?
I'll see if the scattershield I have fits over a 49-54 bellbousing, maybe thats an easier way ????
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Here are two pictures of a blow shield my brother made some years ago. I understand the idea is a 360 degree 1/4 inch thick steel containment ring around the flywheel and pressure plate radius, and from the top of the transmission, side to side, to the ring, to keep anything from going up and back into the car. A fair dinkum blow shield on the cheap.
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Thanks for the pics of the scattershield. It gives me a great insight into what to build.
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If I can post them here are pictures of a mockup of the Packard engine I took for a Packard guy Since the pictures made it I'll mention that I have rustolumed the entire underside of the car and the firewall. The crank is ground the block bored. The Arias pistons should have had .9804 pin bores. They came with .9840 holes. They sent .990 pins. So the rods and pistons will be honed to .990 and everything will fit. The rod bolts are somewhat worn from 50 years of use and ARP wants a small fortune for Packard rod bolts and nuts. Fortunately 354-392-383 MoPar bolts are the same except .010 larger shank. The reamer is on order. Someone unnamed sent me Nash cams for a Packard and was surprised to find they won't work. Imagine that. Not sure how this will work out.
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Excuuuuuse me! I'm still trying to figure this whole thing out.
What class are you running? Some sort of altered coupe?
And why on earth a Packard? The pin size and the cam points out the problems running an oddball package. Don't get me wrong, I love the odd ball stuff, but it sure makes life tough getting pieces and parts.
Walt Steven's "Odd Couple" Chevy/Chrysler ------------------------------- Noel Blacks 1960 . . . um . . . twin.
(http://www.nitrogeezers.com/images/ODD11r.jpg)(http://www.twotogo.homestead.com/files/In-Lines-2/2-NB-1.jpg)
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The car has and will run as a Classic Altered. The Packard? I have a bunch of engines laying around that I thought were neat at one time. I decided I would like to see some of them run while I can. The pin deal has no excuse. Sloppy work by somebody. The cam is another thing.
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Rich, keep up the good work. Projects like yours is what makes me love this sport. Good luck.
Tom G.
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Rich,
I ABSOLUTELY agree with Desotoman, and I can hardly wait until next August to see your car and Packard engine. This is what makes Bonneville so great, original thinking!!
I have been dicking around with cars since the 50s and have NEVER seen a built Packard V8!!!! DO IT!!!
Rex
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Slight update with wires, hoses and such. Got my new seat to install and headers yet. Plenty of time to WOS
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:-D
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Well it made it to the salt. I stayed home and sent it with some friends. They tried but after 3 tries gave up and came home. They said it went 110. But at least it was there.
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I dropped by your pits and found your friends reading plugs and having major mixture balance problems.
Looking at your hood scoop layout I guessed that the problem is that the rear velocity stacks are getting blasted with lots of cold fresh air, and the front are sucking hot air from the engine compartment, as the air needs to move forward from the scoop opening to get to them. I would suggest you take a look at building an air box for the top of the engine so they are all pulling from a common air source.
Larry
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couple more shots in the early morning.
Larry
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Well it made it to the salt. I stayed home and sent it with some friends. They tried but after 3 tries gave up and came home. They said it went 110. But at least it was there.
The car and motor look great. I admire you for taking a "road less traveled". I'm sure you will get the mixture issuses figured out and the car will go much faster with you there the next time.
c ya,
Sum
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All the plugs are reading way rich at this time. You are right that the rear two are a little leaner then the other six. In the past I have had the stacks sealed to the scoop. Given time I may still, but I hate to screw with those pretty stacks.
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Got some pretty new wheel covers. Should add 30 mph to the car, at least. Working on an airbox
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Rich, I was reading the May 08 Motor Trend and was amazed to see that the 08 Bentley Brooklands uses a twin turbo 6 3/4 liter Packard engine in it making 530 HP and 774 ft lbs of torque. Its redlined at 4600 but maybe you could use some technology from it in the cylinder head dept. Might be a little tricky finding one but I just thought Id mention it
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I don't want to step it up to much and get caught up in the 2 club controversy
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I wonder what the good guy deal on those cylinder heads off a $350,000 car is?
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I asked about this on the Packard Forum after reading the Motor Trend artical. I was told that other than being a pushrod V8 there is no commonality between Packard and Bentley engines. Still investigating.
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Im no Bently or Packard expert Rich, Im just quoting Automobile and Motor Trands May 08 articles that both say the same thing. "Bentley belives this Packard inspired engine to be the oldest V8 in production, since 1959, when its power was described as adequate." Automobile "The ageless 6 3/4 liter V8 under the hood traces its origins to a 1950's Packard design" Motor Trend. Dont shoot the messenger. There is a Bentley Contental GT Speed with a W-12 engine with twin turbos and 600 HP also
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I'm not shooting anyone. The Packard was made in '55 and '56. Pretty interesting. To bad nobody I know has a Bentley. I Googled it. turns out it's a 1959 Rolls-Royce design. Aluminum block, wet sleeve. No Packard parts. Another good story shot down. Bummer