Landracing Forum
Loring Timing Association (Maine) => Loring (AFB) land speed venue => Topic started by: gsjohnny on February 24, 2011, 10:59:29 PM
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i finally have a rule book and more confused now.
what class will a 73 buick century with a 363 cid built engine run(hybrid intake)?
i'm really trying for the 149mph mark.
roll bar tubing diameter??
netting and hans required?
stock bench seat ok?
wheel stud diameter?
push bar required?
and i thought drag racing rules were tough. please help me make it to loring.
thanks
john
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Johnny, first off WELCOME...
Now let me help clarify a few things... Safety Requirements and Car Classifications do not always go hand in hand.
As someone new to LSR
The most important thing is that the car and driver have the proper safety gear for the intended max speed you think you can run. (as you may run in TO or Time Only class if your not after a class record) in running Time Only,, the car and driver will be "tech'd" to a max speed based upon the installed safety equipment in the car and the drivers personal safety gear)
Now for a few starting specifics... do you feel your car can go over 135 MPH in a standing start 1.5 mile course ? If so after 135 you enter RACE CAR STUFF LOL....
135 and below... no roll bar, but you must have at least 3 point seat belts, SFI 2005 or 2010 Helmet, Long Pants and Long Sleeve Shirt,,Gloves, closed toe shoes. a safe car and good tires with proper air pressure.
After 135 you then get into Roll Bars, Racing Seats, Racing 5 point or better seat belts, better speed rated tires etc... after 150 more roll bar, better tires a fire system etc.. after 175 add a parachute a full cage, better tires, a second fire bottle, fresh air intake for the drivers area,, etc... as you can see it's easy..
***my comments are not intended to replace reading the rule book 10 times over cover to cover,, which you should do..just a quick overview...
Welcome and bring that Buick up and have some fun...
Charles
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i know changing drag car to lsr car will require me add parts and weight back to the car. i am only going to the 149 mark as beyond that the pocketbook wont stretch anymore(yes dear, just another dollar :-D).
i have read the book a couple of times. as i said in the thread start, those areas are a little confusing. what do i have to do to be legal and safe?
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i know changing drag car to lsr car will require me add parts and weight back to the car. i am only going to the 149 mark as beyond that the pocketbook wont stretch anymore(yes dear, just another dollar :-D).
i have read the book a couple of times. as i said in the thread start, those areas are a little confusing. what do i have to do to be legal and safe?
4 point roll bar, fire suit, shoes, gloves, helmet, 5 point seat belt above 150 you need additional equipment like fire protection, race seat, 6 point roll bar. Read your rule book again!
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Stay 150 and below and you can be legal with just a 4 point roll bar and basic drivers gear. No Chute and No Fire system required.
Charles
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Been on 2 wheels a little while now but i thought you were also required to have a drive shaft loop and 2 throttle return springs once you crossed the 135 line. Also pay attention to tire ratings...
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I am a Bonneville racer and a tech inspector.... I do not know the exact rules for your venue but it seems like a few of the people who have posted replies do know.... If you are unsure, ask more questions..... there is no such thing as a dumb question in my books!.... asking what some would call dumb questions usually prevents the making of dumb mistakes!
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Been on 2 wheels a little while now but i thought you were also required to have a drive shaft loop and 2 throttle return springs once you crossed the 135 line. Also pay attention to tire ratings...
Milt, I do think you are correct,,, my replies have been to address the Items that require FAB time, more time and money etc. for his stage of build,,, Like Chutes, Roll Bars, Seats and Belts and Fire Systems.
Throttle springs, shaft loop etc.. "should be common knowledge" and are easy and inexpensive add on's..
But yes,, you are right and I guess when asked an open ended question we should be more elaborate with our answers,, ..
Hope your DUC is coming along well.
See you in April
Charles
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i have the 2010 ecta book which i assume would be for loring also. correct me if i'm wrong.
but anyways, the rollbar section mentions classes and diameters. thats why i asked about car class. if somebody does time only, what diameter do you use??? very confusing. besides, i don't like to read between the lines when it comes to safety.
i am going with minimum of 6 point. and are swing out bars legal? and staying under 150 i still can have the oem bench seat??
thanks
john
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Minimum pipe diameter for your engine size is 1 5/8 inches. Swing-out door bars should be fine.
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safety film, what brand are we supposed to use on the windows?
thanks for all the help.
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Not needed if you have safety glass.
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For 150 to 175 you can use 1 5/8 x.120 roll bar tubing I would use DOM,,, and if you ever think you may want to go faster you may want to use 1 3/4 x .120 DOM,,, and yes swing out bars are OK,,,, Competition Engineering/Moroso makes a swing out kit as does Art Morrison and several other companies.
As to a bench seat,,, I am not sure,,, but I am not going to use a bench seat over 135... so ask Joe Timney from Delaware Chassis Works,,, he can help with the seat question.
No safety film needed for your speeds.. also factory glass is safety glass (laminated) so it is OK.
Keep us posted,,
Charles
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Some factory glass is tempered.
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got a neighbor down the street that does nascar modifieds. he will do the roll bar for a good price. if i keep giving him turnips and other stuff, it will cost me nothing. :-D.
i think the 73 glass is laminated. i have some spares i could test. anybody know what brand and kind of safety film?
thanks
john
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Johnny,
If you have Laminated Glass (it should be printed on the glass) you do not need safety film.
But to answer your question..
Laminex is best...,,,3M also has a good safety film and clearmask is another choice.
Charles
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thanks for the safety film info. will use 1 3/4 dom for cage when i find out the answers for below.
next. regarding the roll bar issue. rulebook 2011, pg 20 & 22. roll cage 3.b.1 & 3.b.1a regarding gussets on pg 22, fig 2, 3 & 4. what size are they?
confused, YES.
pg 24 shows full length window net. who makes one that big?
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thanks for the safety film info. will use 1 3/4 dom for cage when i find out the answers for below.
next. regarding the roll bar issue. rulebook 2011, pg 20 & 22. roll cage 3.b.1 & 3.b.1a regarding gussets on pg 22, fig 2, 3 & 4. what size are they?
confused, YES.
pg 24 shows full length window net. who makes one that big?
Once you have the cage built,, you then measure for a "full door net" I know of TWO places to get custom door nets and hardware.
1. Joe Timney at Delaware Chassis Works (DCW) can help you.. he has Stroud Custom build the nets.
2. Safety Solutions can also make Custom door nets. (they are in Mooresville, NC at Simpson Safety)
Charles
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thanks charles.
any idea on the gusset sizes?
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thanks charles.
any idea on the gusset sizes?
if using flat plate gussets,, use .120 or .125 (1/8") and stitch weld it. If using tubular gussets then use at least 1.00x.120 DOM.... also better if you TIG weld but to each his own on that.
Charles
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I am not in the same place as my rule book... the dimensions of the base and the vertical as I recall are to be 4 inches each (at least in the case of a "right" triangle)..... I have always made my gussets to those dimensions even if there is no 90 degree angle in it. Also, I have always put the gussets on the side of the tube that was less than 90 degrees ....
Look carefully at the info too.... the guessets are NOT bo be at the center of the tube(s)...... they are to be towards the outer side of the tube(s).... the outer plane of the tube(s) should be the outer surface of the gusset.
and yes, weld with stitches..... on 4" of length, I go 1/3 weld.... 1/3 NO weld... 1/3 weld.... and, igf the gussets are also used for, say affixing a body panel, there is NOTHING in the rules that says they cannot be of a larger size.... some of mine were 5 1/2" (which equaled more than 4" vertical dimension) up the tube and 16" on the horizontal because it helped to make a safety reytention area for my hands....... these two gussets ran forward
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"I am not in the same place as my rule book" Hunh? You went on a trip that's a couple of months long, a trip that had you staying without family or much of any recreation -- and you DIDN'T take your rule book? I would've thought you'd take it and study it and study it and study it. . . What else is there for contract maintenance workers to do in Sept Isles?
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"I am not in the same place as my rule book" Hunh? You went on a trip that's a couple of months long, a trip that had you staying without family or much of any recreation -- and you DIDN'T take your rule book? I would've thought you'd take it and study it and study it and study it. . . What else is there for contract maintenance workers to do in Sept Isles?
Slim, I am sorry to say that I cannot put a quote of Inspector Cluesoe (played by Peter Sellers of course) into typed words.... but in his best bastardized French accent, it was "Don't try to be finny with me!...."
I was on my lunch break at the jobsite which is about 20 miles away from my rule book.... I have have very little need for the rulebook ON the jobsite, actually.... and it is getting to the point that I cannot take extended periods away from the jobsite.... it is gear set up time.... see the pics....It is a big gear!
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Okay, I'll ask. Is it the drive gear for an autogenous mill? Or maybe for the kiln? Too big for rod or ball mills.
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Slim.... These ARE ball mills.... definitely NOT autogenous mills... this particular mill is 13.5' dia. by 28 feet long....
The Autogenous or Semi-Autogenous mills (referred to as AG or SAG mills) that we work with are bigger.... the picture I attached is a 34 foot diameter SAG mill at INCO in Sudbury, Ontario (Trillium and Jody are from there)
The gear is over 40 feet in diameter the motors are 7500 HP each (DC drive).... and that is "little old me" standing there!
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Slim.... These ARE ball mills.... definitely NOT autogenous mills... this particular mill is 13.5' dia. by 28 feet long....
The Autogenous or Semi-Autogenous mills (referred to as AG or SAG mills) that we work with are bigger.... the picture I attached is a 34 foot diameter SAG mill at INCO in Sudbury, Ontario (Trillium and Jody are from there)
The gear is over 40 feet in diameter the motors are 7500 HP each (DC drive).... and that is "little old me" standing there!
and i was guessing it was a chinese laundry shop. :-D
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they could do some pretty big loads of laundry in washing machines of that size!
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The thread veered of subject as often happens.
The reason I am posting here is that John is a new guy looking for help both with the rules and classification. This thread started off good because the early posters saw that John was intereseted in Loring and not the salt.
After seeing his posts regards the window rules and a string of emails and earlier today a phone conversation I relaized that he got lost. Turns out that John has a couple of rule books, ECTA and SCTA. With several people trying to help he got confused as did the posters as to what rules apply where.
I don't know how to keep the help on track, but I do know that the new guys need to get the correct info.
Here is an example, George Callaway wrote me today that he answered a guy about the Bonneville 200 MPH Club. How George got in the loop I will never know. I guess that when answering a newbie request we be sure the asker knows the diff between the different organizations and rules applied.
Rant over,
DW