Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: Rex Schimmer on February 08, 2011, 12:05:23 PM
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Looking at Rick Yacoucci's new engine configuration for his streamliner I am wondering if SCTA considers this an "engine" or "engines". As is goes into a streamliner it really doesn't matter but could I do something similar for a lakester? which does not allow multi engines. I think that I have asked this before without a good reply but as I am working on a lakester design for the lower displacements I could easily see doing something like Rich has done but with a pair of Yamaha 350 twin two strokes to make a J class motor, but am I making a new 700 cc engine or is it a twin engine??
Rex
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Years ago I asked that question and was told that it would have to have a common block or crank shaft or something similiar to the Aussie busa 8
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Rex,
Was it really not a good answer or an answer you didn't want to hear?
As Sparky says, common crank/block make a single engine. Why not send a question to rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org, or use the form on www.scta-bni.org?
DW
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That's the only way that makes sense.
If some components can be removed and the remainder still make an engine, it was 2 engines.
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Ask Gabriel Utley. He's building the "Angelic Bulldog" bike liner and will be using an engine(s) built from a pair of 4-cylinder bike motors. I believe he's received permission from FIM to call it a single motor. I remember quite a bit of discussion here a while back. Search for it under "Angelic Bulldog" in the Forum search engine.
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The large discussion was here:
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,6383.0.html (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,6383.0.html)
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Jon, that engine is a true V-8. It uses a single crankshaft and only the cylinders and heads are from a m/c.
Pete
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production engines with multiple crankshafts, while rare, do exist. Examples would be the Ariel Square Four and the Rotax 256 tandem 2 cylinder two stroke. Other examples are the opposed piston designs where there are two cranks with the pistons meeting head to head to form a combustion chamber. So . . multiple cranks would not be a hard and fast rule for multi engine definition. However those engines started out as one engine from their manufacturer.
. . . in the case (bad pun) of the "V8 Busa" the cylinders and heads are from two engines but there is only one crank. That one might be in the gray area as to being one or two engines.
However the special two litre engine(s) being built from two bike engines are IMHO "two engines."
Hummm . . . . . If you aren't allowed to run two engines in anything but streamliners (car and bike), Sidecar streamliners, and open (A) bikes. . . . I guess that means -by definition- that all other classes must run only one engine.
If you are fool enough to still be reading, . . stick with me here . . .
So . . if you must run one engine . . . then . . . . does that mean that you cannot run less than one engine where mathematically "one half" is less than "one" . . . .meaning that George Fields' half hemi in the comp coupe is not legal! Otherwise one half would be equal to one. (fuzzy math).
OK . . . I'll go away now . . . :-D
P.S. Just kidding George
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production engines with multiple crankshafts, while rare, do exist. Examples would be the Ariel Square Four and the Rotax 256 tandem 2 cylinder two stroke. Other examples are the opposed piston designs where there are two cranks with the pistons meeting head to head to form a combustion chamber. So . . multiple cranks would not be a hard and fast rule for multi engine definition. However those engines started out as one engine from their manufacturer.
. . . in the case (bad pun) of the "V8 Busa" the cylinders and heads are from two engines but there is only one crank. That one might be in the gray area as to being one or two engines.
However the special two litre engine(s) being built from two bike engines are IMHO "two engines."
Hummm . . . . . If you aren't allowed to run two engines in anything but streamliners (car and bike), Sidecar streamliners, and open (A) bikes. . . . I guess that means -by definition- that all other classes must run only one engine.
If you are fool enough to still be reading, . . stick with me here . . .
So . . if you must run one engine . . . then . . . . does that mean that you cannot run less than one engine where mathematically "one half" is less than "one" . . . .meaning that George Fields' half hemi in the comp coupe is not legal! Otherwise one half would be equal to one. (fuzzy math).
OK . . . I'll go away now . . . :-D
P.S. Just kidding George
LOL. Is that like what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander. You bring up a good point.
Tom G.
PS. At least the Square 4 cranks are driven off each other and not an intermediate shaft.
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Single crankshaft makes it single engine ... the multiple crankshaft/single engine deal are bastard engine designs and not competitive ... should someone get one competitive I would let SCTA rule on it when it happens ...
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the multiple crankshaft/single engine deal are bastard engine designs and not competitive
Suzuki RG500
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Single crankshaft makes it single engine ... the multiple crankshaft/single engine deal are bastard engine designs and not competitive ... should someone get one competitive I would let SCTA rule on it when it happens ...
Just a hint: the 500cc production record and the 650cc a-g bike records are held by those "non competitive" twin crankshaft Suzuki RG500 engines! Wait a minute I set one of those records in the 90's :-D
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Jason, I think that might have been Panic's point.... That one still stands doesn't it? Hope to see you on the salt.
how are things up in the north, we got 16 inches of white stuff today and it has not quit yet.
:cheers:
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Jason, I think that might have been Panic's point.... That one still stands doesn't it? Hope to see you on the salt.
how are things up in the north, we got 16 inches of white stuff today and it has not quit yet.
:cheers:
Things are good Stainless. I will see you in August :-) No snow here in canada. Sunny today down on the water.
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Tom G.
PS. At least the Square 4 cranks are driven off each other and not an intermediate shaft.
Yamaha RZ500, two cranks driven off an intermediate shaft
Front cylinders carb into barrel
Rear cylinders carb into crankcase
Yep, bastard engine
G
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And they work. If anybody can make this work it is Rick!
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Lots of interesting comments.... I was always thinking that with a "common crankcase" it would be a single engine regardless of how many crankshafts it had,
but would like to hear more
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At this time it's in a 'Liner so who cares? And you can point to other instances of current cars that are not liners that have two crankshafts built at the factory in a common crankcase. So you have a point. Still, some may remain upset by the tag engine, and be biased against more "Fine Reading" of the rules. And you may not want to upset anyone else who is currently using a two crank motor by pointing them out. So we are back to "It's a 'liner. Who cares?
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I asked around the officials in impound (re Modified Sports) what constituted a "single engine" in this very context.
I was told by all but 1 that it had to have a common crankcase (or at least appear to, a single oil pan was suggested to help that appearance by more than 1 person).
No bolting 2 engines together in MS. :( ;)
You will notice I didn't mention any names of officials.
I shall not, if that sort of info impacts your racing effort, you need to get it direct from the people that get to make that call.
FWIW the individual that said different was quoting the older rule about no motorcycle engines in cars and no "hand built" engines in cars (the way it was put to me it had to be a production engine, in anything but a streamliner, makes me wonder how a Keith Black qualifies :confused:).
Said individual wasn't working impound though.
I remember that rule being listed as changed on the rules page on SCTA-BNI, be interesting to see what is in print when my '11 rulebook gets here. :D