Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: SPARKY on December 12, 2010, 08:40:41 PM
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We will start with the chronicles of ---a wantabe---we wants to be a fast truck: _?/_MP
One of the unfortunate, for the reader, I will be the author of most of the posts as I am retired and Andy Hellmandollar is still gainfully employed. --- I will be the one doing most of the posting.
This MP pickup started out as a '95 GMC ExCab 4x2 and we are converting it to a fulltime 4X$ to qualify as a MP.
This unit is being built by Andy Hellmandollar, Joey Daigneault, a new team menber John McKnight, and myself Wm. T. (Sparky) Smith.
We now have the suspension out and we will start chopping crossmembers, firewall and such to get the allowed 2% eng set back and install the driving frt axle and the 205 transfer case.
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Front transfer case, Modified Pickup = legal?
DW
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Dan where is SSS when we need him :-o I didn't punctuate corectly.
It is a conventional solid GM frt axle solid mounted at stock frt axle centerline, with a GM AT 400 mounted to a GM 205 Transfercase. 70's technology just much stronger than the later systems.
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Gee, whiz. Either they cuss at me for sticking my nose into places I don't belong -- or they complain 'cause I didn't get up close and pernickety. Sorry, Sparky.
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LOL :cheers:
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Sparky,
Is this thing going to have so much HPs that it needs 4WD?? What is the power?
Rex
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BBC and hair dryers
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never ask a guy with a 300mph lakester if he's gonna have enough HP :roll:
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:-D :cheers:
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I'm still confused, is this thing gonna be 4 wheel drive or 2? It must be 2 because 4 WD is not allowed in the modified catagory right?
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All I see is that pickups with full time four wheel drive will compete in Modified . I don't see any mention of part time four wheel drive being legal or illegal. You can't convert from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive, if I read the rule book correctly
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"Production trucks with superchargers and/or full-time four-wheel drive shall compete in this catogery and class." We plan on running both at times.
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Don't move the engine back and just drive the front wheels .
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wow! that is a direct conflict with "2.P Four-wheel drive systems are allowed in special construction category and production category where the competing vehicle was originally equipped with four-wheel drive."
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never ask a guy with a 300mph lakester if he's gonna have enough HP :roll:
If he can spin a lakester out......... :mrgreen:
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We have proof that I can do that not once but twice---well 1 & 1/2 :-D
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The cab is gutted, stripped, removed and sitting outside, the frame is stripped sitting on a front wheel dolly, and rear tires almost front ride height for visual training.
We have submitted 2 questions, one about cab to frame mounting and solid driving front axle mounting .
We have plenty to do building the front and mid plates and mounting the Eng./trans/Tranfer case and building and installing the 4 link & figuring the drive shaft angles.
This truck has never been in a wreck and the frame rails are tweaked---some more of that great UAW/gm quality.
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Thank the Lord for Christmas---found two serious contributions to our efforts on Craigs List:
1. BRAND new BBC 2"ceramic coated Tri-Y headers with AIR bungs---how convient for EGTs $200. We will use these if we decide to put the Turbo in the truck bed for heat and weight dist. reasons.
2. an already bored gen 6 BBC block, for our .030 MusselSports $100 Speed Pro Blower pistons I picked up on a trip to Maxton years ago, with bearings for $200.00. This will give us a 461 "EL Cheapo" A motor. This will be our "MULE"
We also have a lot of parts for another El Cheapo 438 B motor.
We will run these on our mule motor to see if we can make this thing go straight, an get the plumbing sorted out on all the systems.
As we continue we have decided on leaving the stock cab & body mounts so that we will not risk the "no channeling" part of GC/MP rules
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Sparky, 2 pages of build diary and no pics violates forum protocol rules. :-D
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Sparky, 2 pages of build diary and no pics violates forum protocol rules. :-D
JHN, you are right,,, ya wooda thunk Sparky had learned a few tips from me about a properly documented build diary... LOL
Charles
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:-D what document our sins :-D
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:-D what document our sins :-D
Absolutely! :-D
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OK I'm busted old camera died and I have not or am not smart enough to run my wife's will try to learn---really I didn't see much point in posting Pict's of anything all of you have seen in body shops----stripped down frames and cabs.
We will be entering a phase where it might get sort of unusual. Andy and I were out this morning figuring out how we can build a device where we can handle the entire drive unit to work out the engine, trasmission and tranfercase mounts. We still have to drill the holes for the mid plate and mount the transfercase to the trans and then the Eng together ---this will all weigh somewhere around 1050# and is around 6' long.
The intresting part is we are raising the drive train some to compensate for the decreased ground clearance of the 205 tranfercase.
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Sparky, I think I know what you mean. The procedure I'd be looking at would be to block up the drive train at the lowest height possible, then block up the chassis around it at the lowest height possible. Now build everything else around those two base lines. You definitely don't want to raise the height of any major source of weight. If you ever do spin (when) you want that weight down low.
Pete
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I agree with PJ
Charles
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PJ, that is about what we are doing. We have the frame on blocks in the front with the minimum Rake we would be comfortable with the MT 30s; and enough ride ride height of the smallest tires we might run. We will run a 4 link in the back to influence how the solid mounted frt axle might steer and also to adjust the rake with.
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We have been busy scrounging Craigs list this week, for some donor blocks and heads to practice grinding and drilling on. Spent several hours on ENCO online yesterday ordering aircraft drills, DRAPS and taps and a stick of bronze to make piston squirters out of. These we will document and post.
Jeez I wish I had done what I thought about when I was in high school. Join the Navy upon graduation, become a machinist mate; then I would know about these metal working things. What does what, how to do this and that, instead of having to call Terry Mouer or Bill Ratcliff and/or reinvent the wheel. But it does keep me off the street and in the shop, Linda aka "the parts check signer", very affectionatley known as the "House Nazi" knows where I am. This has worked for 28 years and we just celebrated so on the 30th.
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Congrats on the 28 years! 8-)
Looking forward to the pic updates.
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Sparky,
Don't second guess yourself. 46 years ago I joined the Hooligan Navy planning to become an aviation machinists mate and learn aluminum fab skills. Recruiter somehow forgot to tell me CG had a lot of trained AF prior service comming over because the rate advancement was faster..... Not complaning, struck engineman and wound up with diesel experience that served me well for 35 years after I got out. Still chasing the aluminum knowledge. The important part is us "experienced youth" still being able to play while we chase our dreams.
Ed
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Sunday I finished the 3/8 midplate,
Several years ago I read about installing 7/16" grade 8 cap screws in 2 bolt BBC Mk4 blocks to make the poor boy 4 bolties--- did yhat today will get camera out when we start on Squirtiers. Will take picts of mock up block, trans and tranfercase
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We had a good day. Promise I will dig the camera out Monday and post progress. Have one Squirter installed and have checked it with air--We made a change and are using Miller mig wire tips for the nozzles gives us a choice of .023 .030 or .035 nozzles we went to 1/4" x28 threads as opposed to 1/8" 28 hope the main saddle doesn't mind.
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Top shows the welding tip we are using for nozzels installed.
Mid show the aircraft drill we use that goes through a jig we bought.
ther are 3 of them 1 for #1 cyl 2-7 cyl and # 8 cyl shown.
When the cyl is at TDC it sprays across the bore as the piston comes down the spray comes across the piston crown.
Bottom we used a small cut off to grove the oil from the oil supply to the slant hole we just drilled and installed the nozzel in on the upper side of the main brg saddle.
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205 Transfercase behind AT400 rebuilt by Tony who posts as Crosley. We will be using a 3/8 steel mid plate which we made and an Alum. frt plate we will also coustom cut to make work for us.
As you can see we are mounting app. 2" ABOVE the stock rear cross member which puts the drive shaft above the stock frame rail. When we get some more STUF out shop and off the frame we will shoot better and more.
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Andy and I did a good bit of Truck Cage research this years SW
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This is still a Dream of Andys
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:?
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:?
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I take it its still in the dream stage and sitting in your yard as it was the last time I was there.
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That---lol and maybe I hit the NyQuil to often and hard last night :-D
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we are going to be moving truck from Andy's backyard back to my back to my side in 2015 It is now my Truck again there will be a LS motor in the trucks future
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we are going to be moving truck from Andy's backyard back to my back to my side in 2015 It is now my Truck again there will be a LS motor in the trucks future
What size LS?
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Pictures please..... :cheers:
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don't know size I traded Marty the old LSR bike for an early Camaro 5.7 that burned it is just block and heads-- the bike is going back to being a dirt bike . There will be no rush on this thing I just have lots of parts and I had to sell them or build them to keep mama happy.
What I have is: a built AT 400, a big stuff 3 and the old 10-12 out of Ratical that has 2.28 gears in it. it will just have to tell me what it wants.
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Do you plan to run this truck at El Mirage regularly or just B-ville?
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I don't really know for sure, but I think we are looking to being able to run something that has a more vertical driving position.
We have not had very much luck trying to run A lakester at El M. ---between Mother Nature and SUCH!!! I do plan on trying to run there some for sure!
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1leg do you have a MP or working on one?
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Working on one. Hope to have something to show off at El mirage sometime in 2016 if the $$ holds up. I just pulled the stock motor tonight. Waiting on a reply from the truck committee to see how much of the stock frame and suspension can be modified. I want to run a mustang 2 or strut front suspension and a ladder bar in the back. Also need to notch the rear frame and bed to lower the rear.
1993 Chevy reg short bed c1500. Current plan is to only run it at el mirage.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/89burban1/6-28-13C-MP-9_zpse1e12970.jpg)
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Good luck on hearing back--- I have asked for a ruling on putting the the exhaust into and out of the bed -- haven't heard back.. I would be interested in your rulings also. I will share if I ever hear back.
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I didn't see this before when it first popped up 4 years ago. This is probably a totally moot point now but I believe the rule about supercharged PRODUCTION trucks that may or may not also be FULL TIME 4wd (aka all wheel drive) was meant for trucks like the GMC cyclone and typhoon which were factory supercharged (turbo) and also all wheel drive. the cyc and typ were s-10 based vehicles. I'm not aware of a production full size half ton truck that came with all wheel drive and I don't know if converting a non-awd truck to four wheel drive with a conventional transfer case and no center diff would constitute "production full time four wheel drive". Remember that the intent of a rule may be mightier than the rules actual wording. your original plans could have meant running a t/o 4wd truck.
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Thanks Nathan, I received a phone call last night and suggested that if I wanted to receive an answer I should contact Jim Dunn; he had been very good about responding in a timely manner.
I did the same thing 4 years ago and never received a response from the truck chair!!
I sent him ( Jim Dunn) an email last night to him spelling out what we have in mind.
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They are getting a lot of emails latley, so far they have note given me a for sure answer but have asked me some questions. I will let you know when i know!
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So far they (truck committee) have said I can run the Mustang 2 suspension in the front. But was not clear on how much of the stock frame can be modified. To me the rule clearly states that you must have the stock frame. Since they said I can run a non-stock suspension/steering then I assuming that anything goes as long as the stock frame is intact with only minor notching and clearance for the new suspension. I did ask them clarify the rear suspension/frame as I’m afraid that notching the frame and sectioning the bed to clear the notch will be considered channeling which is illegal. But is the bed considered the Body? Again I have sent them pictures I have found off the web to show them what I plan to do. I commend them for putting the time in during the holidays to help me out.
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I assume, body means---the sides & front as the tailgate is handled separately : can be raised, lowered, or removed
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Craig's List find I found a 95 Extended cab SWB 4x4 roller I am going to look at today it is hit in the passenger side but the frame is supposed to be straight. This will give me a factory frame with 4 wheel drive, there should be less debate as to origin.
Nathan, look up NP203 transfer case---Ford, Dodge and GM all had 1/2, 3/4, and 1 Ton trucks that had Full Time 4x4 trucks with all kinds of eng and trans in the 70's .
they had
4 Low Lock
4 Low
N
4 High
4 High Lock
NO 2 wheel drive position
Update: 2/2/2015
There is a difference between Full Time Four Wheel Drive and AWD All Wheel Drive and is usually in the transfer case.
MOD Pickup Truck rules say Full time Four wheel drive:
Full Time Four Wheel Drive may or may not have an inter-axel diff. but 50% of the power is available to each axel.---usually not the case with AWD
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Do you plan to run the 95 4wd or do the straight axel?
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I summited that I wanted to run a solid axel with a 205 transfer case.
I now have a 95 GMC 4x4 frame that I will move my 95 GMC 4x2 body over to it---should satisfy 2.P in the rule book.
3.H.1 says you may run any transmission-- so the 205 transfer case should not be any issue.
As far as I know you have always been able to run any axel one wanted--it is the wheelbase that must be correct and you can not run c clip axels, without modifications to eliminate them.
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Got a Phone call from Jim Dunn today he is going to mail me the ruling since we do not seem to be able to get the internet to work between AZ and CA :cry: -----is this a bad sign :evil:
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We are in a very good spot---we are going to build the roll cage inside a wrecked body that we are going to throw away and then replace with the clean sheet metal we will run. I am sure we will have to cut up the floor which will require is to install secondary flooring to comply with the safety rules.
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We received a response back from SCTA:
Bottom line: you can't run a full time 4 wheel drive blown truck in mod Production unless it was/ is FACTORY PRODUCTION vech.---
IE a stock vech that you cant run in production supercharged.
:dhorse:
This most likely is brought on by decisions 20+ years ago with the GMC AWD turbocharged SYCLONE!!!!!! that they didn't want to add a class for Production Supercharged Trucks so the just s add a run in production class..
I am going to drop this for now because it will be a time sucking black hole for me and the volunteers of SCTA---thanks to all for their time and efforts!!!!!
s
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I am not sure, but I don't think that anyone makes a FULL time A/4WD pickup - at least in full size. Maybe one of the minis -- but no big trucks.
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SSS in the 70's all of the Big 3 offered Full time Four wheel drive trucks GM only offered Full time 4X4 in 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton Pickups from 73-79
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Also Jeep pickups with Quadratrac.
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Well there you go. I figure that Sparky knows what he's talking about -- not so sure with Don :evil: I guess that in the 70's I wasn't very aware of 4x4 trucks and didn't pay attention to the transfer case situation in them. As for Jeep -- I've never had much of anything to do with those vehicles. I did have a late 60's (I think) Toyota Land Crusher with a mildly warmed-over 350 SBC in it -- tons of fun racing around in the mud and snow. but it was two or four wheel drive.
I also had a Rambler (or whatever it was called) AWD station wagon around '83. It was full time all wheel drive. That was my first AWD vehicle, and I remember trying sand hills and everything and being impressed by the thing. It's a good day today to have that extra traction -- we're in the middle of a "blizzard" (quotation marks mine because it isn't as bad as the word implies) and so I drove Nancy to work at Lowe's in the big pickup. No slipping and sliding. I did take some video as I was driving down the road, and I'll have it on YouTube in a couple of minutes. I'll get back here and give you a link. It's about 1 1/2 minutes long.
http://youtu.be/HPgFxB1n_K8
Ah, life in Michigan's beautiful Upper Peninsula! :cheers: :-D :-D :cheers:
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Two questions --
Where's the video you promised us of Nancy?
What's 6 to 8 inches?
Stan
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Video: You Tube rejected it due to their forecast of hugely overpowering amounts of traffic going to the site to see her modeling the new tattoos and showing what's left of non-inked skin.
6 to 8 inches is the measurement from the ground. :roll:
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Slim, what's 6 to 8" from the ground?. :-o
I hope you aren't one of the guys down at the river
polluting the water. You know the story........
Oooooh, the water's cold!!! Yeah and it's $#%^&* deep too!.
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SSS, I remember days like that at WAFB, MI. Deep snow is more fun :-D
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Mike: You got it right, but why do you "hope" that I wasn't talking about that? Penis envy across the ocean?
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Geez here I am in Phoenix 73 degrees in my house and I have a "hoodie" on because I am chilled because the sun isn't up yet and you guys are talking about deep snow :-o
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Sparky:
Here's what it's like at our house this morning. I make a tunnel for exiting the house during the winter - using the basement / at grade door. I don't bother to shovel the front walkway. The "tunnel" is a few hoops of rebar with a blue tarp fastened over it.
Kinda makes you think twice about needing that hoodie, doesn't it?
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WOW... hardly recognize Nancy with all those clothes :roll: she looks a little bundled up aye...
I had to fix an airplane at KI one time, the guys up there told me come prepared, they just had 4 feet of snowfall the day before. You UPers always exaggerate about the snow, I saw the report when I arrived, it was only 47 inches. Driving on the base was like driving in tunnels, the snow plows had snow cut and thrown about 10 feet high, you had to creep into the intersections to see cross traffic. Road to the base must have been done by the same folks, couldn't see anything but snow.
Minot was always worse, the snow was drier and the wind there made white-outs common. They strung ropes between buildings so you could find a door...
Working up there was bad enough, I know I could never live there :cheers:
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Well we are going to drag BUFTer out of the back yard. and see if we can build a Miler out of it. Scored big today with a spool for a 12 bolt so we can run 2.73 gears and 35 spline axles.
We will be building this on a 4x4 frame with torsion bar front suspension and a 4 link with air bags in the rear. It will be a 4x2 ex-cab with a 8' bed with a 155" wb
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:-D we received a care package via Brown Santa today----
Thank you MR JOHN B---
you deserve to have a sloop named after you or something like that!! :cheers:
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Well things change ---we now have a REALLY REALLY , ugly truck to replace "bufter jr" , since we can not run 4x4 for a MP or a BMP.
A Craigslist $ 650. special--- a 4x2 60s Studebaker Champ pickup with pretty good sheet metal. It t has a Camaro sub frame installed. It was a Sand Drag truck it has a cage that will have to be redone. It will have to have the body remounted it presently does not meet the rules requirements as they are not in the original relationship.
We will build a GM 12 bolt with 2.73 on the Summers Bros. spool we got from John B. ,thanks again sir, with ladder bars and coil overs.
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I have scored a front bumper for it. We now we will have a stock 3/4 ton 122" wb un-modified frame so that we can comply the rules. After talking to Sum and spending 1/2 a day with Tim Cox, I am pretty sure we will be running a slightly modified I beam front axle with leaf springs, and a 12 bolt and leaf in the rear with to start with 2.73 gears. I am leaning toward this because it just has less variables to control. It will have some sort of ladder bars or traction bars also.
I have a lead on a 8' fender side bed to complete a Reg. cab 122" MP.
We plan on starting with AA /MP and then AA /BMP with a Turbo 400/GV setup since I have 98 percent of the parts I will need already.
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:-D
More need parts for the Lil' Champ.
I followed up with Studie Mel and he I was able to score a 8' fenderside bed truck as well as a 6.5 fender side bed in piecies and maybe a radiator and head lights. With what I have already, I can go with the 115" SWB or the 122" LWB. Drove through some beautiful winter scenes and on brief very heavy snow squall.
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The kid says he wants a Jimmy not a lil Champ so we will be going back to the original plan with a Full Size 95