Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: manifest on December 01, 2010, 11:20:42 AM
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We have been building on this car for 6 years now. What once was going to be a mild street car turned into a super low road race styled approach then about a year ago we decided a land speed car would be its best use. The body and front suspension are going to stay stock for the most part. I moved the top strut mounts up and built new control arms that are adjustable. Tubular cross member with plenty of room for the Mopar wedge powerplant we intend to run. A jerico dr4 is in the works and a 9in. housing is held in place with a triangulated fourlink. Dual caliper rear disc will keep it from rolling along with dual chutes I believe. Firewall back is all 1-5/8" tube chassis. Plan to build a more aero front end with completely disguising the cars original shape. Slow going now because of customer cars but hope to jump back into it after the first of the year.
Zach
Manifest of Speed
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Post some pictures. Tony
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Tryin to. Think they are to big.
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OK so I can get the pictures to upload. Check out my blog if the pictures. It's work safe.
www.manifestofspeed.blogspot.com
Zach
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I gather you're talking about the Datsun. :? :? :?
Pete
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Yes sir.
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Cool. I LOVE the Ghia. One of my favorite cars at Speed Week.
What's the time line on the Datsun? What? Dat-soon? :-D
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Hi Manifest looks like you are off to a nice start. What speeds are you wanting to go ? :cheers:
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We hope to have the Datsun ready by Aug-Sept of 2011 if everything goes well. Dad's trying to sell his motorcycle to help fund the project a little better right now. The hardest part is done I hope. We are going to run the motor out of my NHRA super stock dodge dart to begin with I think. The stock stroke .030over bore 383 motivates a 3200# dart into the 130-132mph range in the 1/4 with a jerico on 31in tall M/Ts with stock size valves going thru the traps at 7800rmp. We think with adding a dry sump and a carb bigger than the 625cfm carter avs we are restricted to in the dart we can get into the 190-200mph range at bonneville and 160-170mph at maxton. We have talked of de-stroking a 440 to be in the upper limits of B/GMS. I have talked with some outlaw drag racing buddies about a centrifugal blower and we may end up running a rons fuel injection set up also... all of that is still just dreams.
Zach
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Dreams are a good place to start. :-) :-) :-) :-)
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in the 200mph range with the Z allow plenty of space to add weight. Ive been around a few times :-o
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"I've been around a few times."
Ya mean like around and around?
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Yea we found out how important weight and spring pressure is at SW with our ghia this year (thru the 2 backwards). In the Datsun the 2x3 front frame rails and some of the other larger dia tubing will have fill bungs in them so we can add weight inside of them and also have mounting points for weight placed throughout the car naturally.
Zach
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So I just read the updated rules SCTA has annouced. I want to make sure I have read them correct, so please chime in if I have interrperated this wrong. "A generic requirement for this category is the car shall have been originally produced with seating for 4 or more people, i.e. adults or children. If the car was produced and sold with 2 seats on some models and 4 seats (including jump seats) on other models, the car will be classified as a Coupe and Sedan. Examples include Honda CRX, Ford Mustang GT 350's, Porsche, Nissan Z 2+2, etc." .... So now we can run our 280Z in Modified Sports, or Coupe class? Ours is not a 2+2 but as it were a regular Zcar had to run in MS and a 2+2 only quailified for Coupe or Sedan, correct? Now we are aloud to cross over if our car was produced in two forms........
Zach
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Modified Sports
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? . . . So a 2+2 runs in Coupe/Sedan or Modified Sports but I regular Z is still stuck in Modified Sports only? If thats the case then nothing has changed so why waste time putting this into the rule book?
Zach
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Zach
I agree with Ivsalt. Yes it appears that your 'non-2+2' is a GT or MS body. It seems pretty straight forward with the earlier Z cars (240, 260, 280) where there was a specific different model for the 2+2 with a real rear seat and longer wheelbase, etc.
The rule clarification appears to be needed to clear up come confusion in the past (I am guessing here . . .) For your model it wasn't that much an issue but for some others it was. I think that this new wording helps with some of the cars that were previously difficult to nail down as either GT/MS or Coupe/Sedan. With so many cars and models that seem to fall into both, it is probably impossible to write a brief rule that eliminates all questions.
I am speculating here but I bet that Macmillan's CRX Competition Coupe had some folks asking why it was not a Modified Sports under the old rules. As I understand it the CRX is sold in some foreign markets with jump seats and categorized as a 2+2 in those markets.. see http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2010/May/photos/cars_2/4240.JPG for a photo. If you look closely it appears that the driver sits on the right side (United Kingdom side) of that car. Maybe someone that knows something about that car can add to this . . .
One interesting thing about this rule update is that the Porsche 930 (911?) series is now defined as a Coupe/Sedan. In the previous rules it was specifically defined as a GT/MS body. Other cars that seem to be on both sides of the line would include the older Opel GT that had an area behind the seats where someone could ride but there were no seats (at least none in the US market. In other markets? I don't know). My daughter used to ride back there in my 71 Opel GT.
Anyway . . . I bet your Datsun is a Modified Sports.
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One interesting thing about this rule update is that the Porsche 930 (911?) series is now defined as a Coupe/Sedan.
Clearly just because a vehicle has a back seat, or lack thereof does not accurately dictate if it is a coupe or MS.
IMO the cars on the edge (*some are obvious) should be qualified using 'spirit of the class' as apposed to a generic seat configuration.
The Porsche was/is built as a sports car and is the most winning race car ever built and I would be pizzed if I had a coupe/sedan record and someone ran on it using a 911.
The BMW Issetta and Honda Insight...no rear seat, clearly not a sports/GT.
The Datsun....GT/MS or at least it *should be. The Z cars were built and marketed as sports cars.
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Little Liner is correct in his guess. Nutz has the same line of thought as I regards the marketing of a car.
Contact this guy, he wrote the rule:
GT/Modified Sports Classes
Jim Miller
818-846-5139 hm/fax
miller212.842@sbcglobal.net
DW
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. . . . The BMW Issetta and Honda Insight...no rear seat, clearly not a sports/GT.
Yeah that makes sense . . . . but . . . http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/events/htup_0903_bonneville_speed_week_fastest_honda/photo_01.html
at least one of the Bonneville GT records is held by an Insight . . . and yes, this same car is the one pictured in the 2010 SCTA rule book for GT cars ( see page 74. )
So I would venture to say that it is not so clear to everyone . . . .
if you think about it, some of the faster Mod Sports records are held by Berkeley bodied cars. The original Berkeley was never considered a rocket ship. Does that disqualify it from being called a Sports Car? The question is "Where do you draw the line?"
I wonder if the sentence in the 2010 rule book (near top of page 75) that says "GT cars with four seats shall have committee approval to run in this class." will remain in the 2011 rules.
BTY, more power to Jim Miller making these calls. I am glad it is not me. Some of these cars really straddle the line between GT and Coupe/sedan.
There are Fiat 600s running in Comp Coupe so I guess they are OK for coupe/sedan, but what about Fiat 500s with even smaller back seats? yes there are seats in the back of the Fiat 500 but do they qualify as "seats " see 2010 rules where it talks about cars running in the Modified category (coupes and sedans) page 63 - in first paragraph . . " . . . the car shall have been originally produced with suitable seating for four (4) average adult persons."
I wonder if there are any cars that don't fit in either category.
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Just wishful thinking on my part.
Has anyone ever mentioned the idea of having the MS class split into coupe and convertibles?
Just a thought, not going to keep us from finishing our car the way we want it...eventually.
Zach
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Why, to what end? How many records are existing split into coupes and roadsters?
DW
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No back seat.... always been GT, back seat, no matter how small was run in production class and that vehicle family. We ran a Fiat OTR in 1978, set a record in GT, then disqualified because there was padding on the shelf behind the seats. It was considered a seat by the board although none of them could climb in back there. A few years ago someone worked in 2+2 wording opening the door maybe, but it was closed back up. Looks like someone may be trying to run 4 passenger cars in GT again.... with board approval.
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The question is "Where do you draw the line?"
The line had to be drawn and so it was drawn with 2 seaters being GT/MS and everything else with more than two seats being Coupe/Sedan. Pretty black and white now. The majority of the two seater cars that show up to compete at an SCTA event are typically considered GT/MS cars. Never seen an Issetta at Bonneville or many Porsches for that matter so I'm not losing any sleep over those two. This was thought about and turned over in many minds for MONTHS before this rule change was submitted.
Rules are obviously changeable so if you guys can come up with a better solution submit it.
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Ah shit, I'm sorry. We're totally jacking this build thread. I hope a moderator can clean this up. Oops.
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I am ready for some build pictures. :-) :-)
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Ah Subaru, I'm sorry. We're totally jacking this build thread. I hope a moderator can clean this up. Oops.
I am ready for some build pictures. :-) :-)
Well I guess we did, but shit happens... :| We seem to follow or lead them wherever they go.... :roll:
But it sure kept the thread alive while we waited for more info on the build...
I'm with George, let's see some more pics
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Bare with me, Im having troubles getting them to load due to their size.
As soon as I figure it out I'll post all I got on here.
Zach
manifestofspeed.blogspot.com
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OK, take them smaller, 320x640 or run them through a reducer to save them smaller
The way the forum is set up you can add 4 attachments but they must be less than 500K total, yep that is hard to do with a 10meg camera, but most of them will take a 200K size pic
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Early Mazda RX7s' had the ability to be 4 seaters. The cut outs are under the rear deck.
Japan car rules made a 4 seater cheaper to license than a 2 seater if I remember correctly.
Nick
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So I just read the updated rules SCTA has annouced. I want to make sure I have read them correct, so please chime in if I have interrperated this wrong. "A generic requirement for this category is the car shall have been originally produced with seating for 4 or more people, i.e. adults or children. If the car was produced and sold with 2 seats on some models and 4 seats (including jump seats) on other models, the car will be classified as a Coupe and Sedan. Examples include Honda CRX, Ford Mustang GT 350's, Porsche, Nissan Z 2+2, etc." .... So now we can run our 280Z in Modified Sports, or Coupe class? Ours is not a 2+2 but as it were a regular Zcar had to run in MS and a 2+2 only quailified for Coupe or Sedan, correct? Now we are aloud to cross over if our car was produced in two forms........
Zach
I have a 1987 RX7 2+2 ,,, with a chevy V8 conversion , it can run in gas coupe now ?
Roy
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Did you question the contact I posted in reply #18?
DW