Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: thundersalt on November 30, 2010, 06:42:26 PM
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1) Replace a perfectly good radiator with a stock size one. The one I have now may not be exact dimensions but sq. in. dimensions are the same. No aero advantage obtained with existing radiator. Cost: $250-$500
2) Remove all fuel lines from driver compartment. In 2009 rule was changed to no flexable lines. Spent $350 to replace with all hard stainless lines now one year later that needs to be redone again Cost: Probably about the same (couldn't ya have just went with this rule last year?)
3) Remount window net ( I'm OK with this new rule ) Cost: minimal
4) Extend driver side helmet support. You would think that a system sold and designed by a good race seat manufacturer would be acceptable. Will I be able to get out with the extension? I guess I'll find out. Cost: minimal
Not too bad of a list for us. Lets see others.
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Replace all windows with Lexan $1200
Hans device $ 600 ?
Redo door net
redo helmet support or special
made full face helmet with 1 1/2
less frontal protrusion 50,000 :-D
JL222
Forgot the remote electric shut off
and head sock
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I think this is a good idea. We might be able to help each other understand each others problems and come up with potential solutions.
My car needs:
1) New nomex head sock w/sfi tag as my current perfectly good nomex sock has no tag. However I think I'll continue to use our current head sock and run a Helmet skirt insted for extra protection.
2) Electric fuel pump Inertial shut off switch.
3) Cable for remote master battery shut off switch
4) Head & neck support
Thundersalt, per your #1 IF your current radiator is the same sq/in and mounts to stock I see no issues. I'd send a request to the rules committee to see if it is leagel per the rule below.
5.E.1 Production Class:
Add new 2nd sentence, pp 3:
A replacement radiator of the same height and width and mounted in the original location as OEM shall be used. Blocking of air flow thru the radiator in front or behind is not allowed.
Per your #2. You might be over thinking this. What they want (SCTA) is isolation of the fuel lines from the drivers compartment. Put your lines in a tube with bulkheads at each end.
3.I FUEL SYSTEMS:
Rewrite 3rd sentence:
All components of the fuel system shall be isolated from the driver’s compartment or pre-approved by the Technical Committee.
Your other items you seem to have a handle on.
Good Luck.
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My heartache was to move the window and door net to the inside, because of the swing out side bar, they wouldn't work with the cage, so instead of the Jeg's forty buck nets, I had to have Diest built me a custom set for Two fifty. In their defense, they worked me into their schedule and got them to me in a hurry. :-P
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Oh, yeah, and the two hundred bucks for replacement belts for the still legal (or were they?) Impact safety belts. Now I wonder if my DJ belts are nylon or poly? Am I safe? Am I over protected? Is this racing? Are Corvairs or Pintos safe to drive? Bob
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Brian,
Mike is correct. If your replacement radiator is the same square inches or more as OEM you are good. The intent of this rule is to prevent the cutting down in height of a radiator or using a narrow core so that air flow in to the front of the car can be blocked by panels.
Mike's suggestion of #2 is a good solution.
DW
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In my car (which as a altered coupe isn't affected by the rule) I installed a 25 gallon water tank which recirculates the engine water back to the radiator. I run it about 2/3 full. My air to the radiator is a 1" slot under the hood bottom with the grill openings blanked off (53 Studebaker) . My block is 2/3 filled with concrete. My fuel tank covers up 60% of the radiator. I have a Moon Style clamp over (think fuel cap) that is safety wired shut.
Out the top I have two common household 1" water heater relief valves plumbed out the rear of the car in case of a blown head gasket.
I can't get the car to 190 degrees in five miles running 25 % Nitro.
Do Not Run a flat sided tank as it may split with the loss of a head gasket. Moon can build you what you want, or look at mine at Speedweek and go from there. Bob
p.s. I insulated the water tank and bought a Kool Shirt.............worth every cent, as the tank becomes a great heater if you get my drift...............
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Bob why are you worrying about safety film ? cars over 250 mph must have polycarbonate windows ? Thanks
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Inertia Switch & HNS; adding additional lower belts altho not required.
Dyno, how did you own a head sock that did not have a SFI cert unless it was not designed for racing? ie: painter. My skirt didn't have a cert and I used it as an additional protection. Just the opposite of what you said.
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Safety Film or Lexan for the windows. $???
SFI 38.1 system. $500-$600
New Helmet SA2010 (Check your Stickers Guys!) My SA 2000 is an Ornament in the museum now. $500-$600
Seat? new or re-work? $500
I did the inertia Switch last year, went down the Ford row at Pick a Part, got 2 with the pig tail, $5 each. Nobody even checked during tech.
That's about how much i spent on Gas to get back and forth to the Flats.
Then there's the stuff I want to make the Truck go faster!!!
hey it's not a cheap sport. At least I didn't blow up a motor or break a Tranny this year!
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JD, I have complete nomex underwear from my road racing days back in the 80’s. None of it has an sfi tag, maybe because there was no sfi back then? As for the helmet skirt, I haven’t looked to see if they have sfi tags yet. One way or the other we’ll be legal before next season.
A question that has been asked before, Nomex does not wear out per the DuPont web site other than normal wear & tear. So my nomex should still be good to use other than a missing tag.
Normal home, commercial and industrial laundering and dry techniques are suitable. Because the flame -resistant protection is part of the aramid fiber it cannot be washed or worn out, even if the garment is mishandled. Recommended laundering procedures are available. Many companies consider industrial laundering programs to ensure their garments are thoroughly cleaned and properly maintained and to implement and manage their Protective Apparel programs.
Nomex® Protective Apparel garments are extremely durable and stand up well to repeated launderings and use. Fabrics have very low initial shrinkage (1 % to 3% ) and maintain their size and shape over the life of the garment. Nomex® Protective Apparel garments come out of the dryer ready to wear and rarely need pressing.
Chlorine bleach should not be used on Nomex® protective garments. Chlorine bleach or other additives will not remove the flame protection as they can with flame-retardant treated fabrics; however, to preserve garment strength and prolong garment life, chlorine bleach should not be used.
Caution: Thoroughly remove greases, oily soil and other flammable contaminants from Nomex® protective garments. Flammable contaminants serve as a fuel source and will reduce the thermal performance of any garment. Tears or rips should be repaired with components made from Nomex® brand fabric, sewing thread, zipper tapes and patches.
Now what I really like to know is how can we tell if we have Nylon or Polyester seat belts?
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Replace all windows with Lexan $1200
Hans device $ 600 ?
Redo door net
redo helmet support or special
made full face helmet with 1 1/2
less frontal protrusion 50,000 :-D
JL222
Forgot the remote electric shut off
and head sock
I had my suspicions when the lexon site took down their prices now $1700 for 3/16 and tinted :roll:
Troy talked to the guy and he new all about Bville :roll:
He also recommended window clips used to be $195 who knows how much now.
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Leadfoot, the rule reads cars over 250 so if you wern't so darn fast you wouldn't need lexan :-D
It does not say anything about the class record.
Oh, yeah, 53 Studebakers have ALL laminated glass so you high rollers with newer classics finally have to pay for your sins....... :evil:
I just want you to stay in the AA class................... pretty please!!! Bob
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John, check with Tap Plastics. I think they're a lot cheaper.
http://www.tapplastics.com/
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Oh I see. Bob some guys have all the luck. Now if we can just figure out the head restraints. ?? Thanks
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John, check with Tap Plastics. I think they're a lot cheaper.
http://www.tapplastics.com/
Brian, they don't have molded windows. We could order flat sheets and cut to fit if they pieces long enough. Front and sides only.
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Troy, check this out :-D
http://www.eharwood.com/catalog/product.php?productID=131
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Just a question, has anyone tried forming the lexan over a stock glass curved window? I assume using body shop heat lamps and clamps would be the way to go. Do you cut it with a jig saw and a fine blade? Tap plastics probably could give us the answers, or maybee if you made a paper template, it might be worthwhile to pay them to cut it. They did my tail light lenses, and the cuts were really smooth, but I never thought to ask them what they used.
They also sell drill bits for plastic, and I got a how-to sheet from them on the best proceedures for drilling. Bob
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Troy, check this out :-D
http://www.eharwood.com/catalog/product.php?productID=131
I talked with Steve the GM there, very racer friendly. No tinting available.
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Just a question, has anyone tried forming the lexan over a stock glass curved window? I assume using body shop heat lamps and clamps would be the way to go. Do you cut it with a jig saw and a fine blade? Tap plastics probably could give us the answers, or maybee if you made a paper template, it might be worthwhile to pay them to cut it. They did my tail light lenses, and the cuts were really smooth, but I never thought to ask them what they used.
They also sell drill bits for plastic, and I got a how-to sheet from them on the best proceedures for drilling. Bob
That's how we have done it. Used a small reciprocating air saw with a fine blade to cut. You can smooth sand the edges with 180-240 grit. We used regular drill bits just make sure they are sharp and go slow.
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"It does not say anything about the class record."
Come on, Bob, you know that won't fly.
Stan
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There are special blades for cutting plastics and fiberglass. They have tungstun abrasive on the leading edge and cut smoothly. No teeth to grab material.
Tom
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Lexan won't cut with a regular blade. It tends to crack and break and get expensive. If you are going to do it yourself get the right blade.
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Lexan cuts just fine with a regular jigsaw blade. Polycarbonate that is not Lexan will split and crack. vic
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Bob, you'll need 270 degrees F. to form Lexan.
Mike, You can tell the belts are polyester if they are so stiff you can hardly tighten them. Be sure the "anti dive" belt is 2" so it might not chaff stuff.
I've bought my helmet but I got a SA2005. At my age I probably won't need one for more than 5 years more. I haven't looked seriously at the head restraints yet but I heard you have to go to a 2" shoulder harness. Sure hate to throw away my custom Autopower 3" shoulder harness for something smaller so I can spend a bunch of money on a restraint that is going to increase my cockpit exit time!
Harvey
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Lexan cuts just fine with a regular jigsaw blade. Polycarbonate that is not Lexan will split and crack. vic
Lexan is just a brand name for polycarbonate. They are the same. Wayno
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Dyno....Nylon belts are SFI 16.1 and Polyester belts are SFI 16.5..................JD
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Troy, check this out :-D
http://www.eharwood.com/catalog/product.php?productID=131
I talked with Steve the GM there, very racer friendly. No tinting available.
Just FYI, I ordered mine here:
http://www.ridoutplastics.com/
I ordered a dark bronze tint, and it wa $312.35 for the entire car. Of course, all I have is flat glass, no curves.
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No dog in this fight, I don't got no stinkin windows. LOL
That been said. It looks to me there are lots of safety film choices, from numerous suppliers, available.
All the SCTA has to do is specify a thickness, say 6 mil or 8 mil for strength. Then require a hole, 1/8" or so punched with a paper punch or similar, somewhere on all film applications so inspectors can check if applied and thickness.
Ron
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Thanks Ron,
Two good ideas that I can take to the board. :-D
DW
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I've bought my helmet but I got a SA2005. At my age I probably won't need one for more than 5 years more. I haven't looked seriously at the head restraints yet but I heard you have to go to a 2" shoulder harness. Sure hate to throw away my custom Autopower 3" shoulder harness for something smaller so I can spend a bunch of money on a restraint that is going to increase my cockpit exit time!
Harvey
You still need three inch belts. The two inch belts are made on top of the 3 inch belts to hold the Hans device.
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Lexan cuts just fine with a regular jigsaw blade. Polycarbonate that is not Lexan will split and crack. vic
Lexan is just a brand name for polycarbonate. They are the same. Wayno
After reading my post, I thunk. Of course you can have polycarbonate that is not Lexan. Krusty, have you had a problem with another brand of polycarbonate? Wayno
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Wayno - Ya got me, I've only used GE Lexan in the windshields, rear windows, and side glass I've installed. What I really meant to convey (ya know, "in the spirit of" :evil:) is that you should be careful of getting an inferior quality PLEXIGLASS product, which will crack and split (and wound you). My experience with polycarbonates other than GE Lexan is non-existant. Thanks for getting me straight. vic
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Wayno - Ya got me, I've only used GE Lexan in the windshields, rear windows, and side glass I've installed. What I really meant to convey (ya know, "in the spirit of" :evil:) is that you should be careful of getting an inferior quality PLEXIGLASS product, which will crack and split (and wound you). My experience with polycarbonates other than GE Lexan is non-existant. Thanks for getting me straight. vic
polycarbonate has many good brands
Plexiglas is acrylic and I wouldn't use it for anything
makrolon (with the ryno) is another good brand of polycarbonate sheets
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I need to replace the wind screen on my roadster and want to use lexan instead of the plexiglas that's there.. I think I read on this site, that lexan is blue when viewed from the edge and plexiglass is clear or is it the other way around? Trouble is, my memory is mostly gone. Appreciate any help.
Ron
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I need to replace the wind screen on my roadster and want to use lexan instead of the plexiglas that's there.. I think I read on this site, that lexan is blue when viewed from the edge and plexiglass is clear or is it the other way around? Trouble is, my memory is mostly gone. Appreciate any help.
Ron
correct polycarbonate(lexan) has a bluish tint to it when viewed from the side
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Thanks Chris
Ron
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Re: heat forming Lexan....I seem to recall someone telling me you have to heat it for a while at below 180 degrees to get the water out of it, first. If you heat above that, without preheat process, the water will boil and form bubbles. Probably some info somewhere on the net.
jl
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Jim, water? I wonder if that is for making a tight like 45 to 90 degree bend like a flange?
It's my understanding that a good, even heat source like a couple of heat lamps will do the job.
I have no experience but it sounds like a few others posting have. Bob
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Re: heat forming Lexan....I seem to recall someone telling me you have to heat it for a while at below 180 degrees to get the water out of it, first. If you heat above that, without preheat process, the water will boil and form bubbles. Probably some info somewhere on the net.
jl
That is my understanding also. Wayno
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Me too. The way I understood it was lexan absorbs humidity and if heated to quickly the water vaporizes and makes internal bubbles which would ruin your lexan. IIRC it take quite a while to expel the water. FWIW I would do research before ruining some expensive lexan.
Just my $.02
Ron
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Here is site for pre-heating lexan before bending. http://www.portplastics.com/architect/page22.html
Ron
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If one chooses to replace side windows on an ex cab pickup with a polycarbonate how would you attach them? Tabs inside the body and screw or pop rivet them?
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If one chooses to replace side windows on an ex cab pickup with a polycarbonate how would you attach them? Tabs inside the body and screw or pop rivet them?
That will work just fine,,, we used 1/8" pop rivits... you can also use screws.
Charles
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are you allowed to "bed" the window and not violate "sealing & taping" restrictions?
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I use 10-32 buttonhead screws with nyloc nuts on a 3 to 4 inch center-line. Clean and effective! Tabs from Jerry Bickle or AA Manufacturing.
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If We have Acrylic windows in the vehicle now, can I just put the window film on them and be legal ? I just made up a new rear window (flat) last year with all the graphics and stuff, I really dont want to go thru the trouble/expense again . I will get a pair of Laminated windows made up for the doors , and in my mind , be done with it , Right ? We are well under the 250 mph rule .
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Billy;
How do you get the tint to stick to the Acrylic? Is must be different than Lexan cause window film won't stick to the Lexan.
Steve
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Good point , the beauty of Acrylic is it comes in a bunch of colors , no tint film necessary, We got "60's gasser blue" it's cool , I was going to do the door windows in the same stuff ,That is , till this all hit the fan !
Now, I'm just assuming the saftey film will stick to the Plexi, we may have a whole new set of problems , Hmmm.
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Now, I'm just assuming the saftey film will stick to the Plexi, we may have a whole new set of problems , Hmmm.
Did we ever get a definitive answer on what "safety film" is, or are we still waiting on a spec?
I remember looking at window tint last summer and thinking, "This can't be what they're talking about".
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Plexi is acrylic. Do not use it. Lexan and its derivatives are polycarbonate. If you really want to know how the two plastics differ buy two 2" x 4 1/4" welding cover plates, one acrylic and one polycarbonate. Put on a pair of safety glasses and a pair of gloves. Now holding the acrylic plate between your thumb and first finger bend it outward till it shatters into sharp shards. then do the same with the polycarbonate. The latter won't break and form the nasty shards. It will just bend. Do you really want to be tumbling through a crash with a bunch of very pointy knives? Use only Lexan or some other polycarbonate.
Pete
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We have a funny car type cage in our Z, early on i tried a Hans and it was difficult to get in and out. This was a few years ago. any suggestions on which system is easiest to get off to get out of the car faster? The Hans i tried was an early one so im sure some improvements have been made. I guess saying i need one that moves a little more would defeat the purpose :?
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Safety Systems makes a R-2 model which you velcro to the seat, climb in, and then buckle it on.
I may have to do the same thing as my neck is fused and I have a limited abillity to tilt my head forward. Bob
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Thanks Bob i have a similiar situation
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Hi Bob Did you mean Safety solutions ? R3
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Yep, sorry. I think if you go to their site and look at the R-3, it shows it as a option
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Before I leave on my trip I want to jump in here and ask everyone to hold off on changes to the two issues we have discussed.
The head restraint extension has new wording and the safety film has been tested. The wording has gone out for final approval and I will post the changes when I can.
I am sorry for the delay, life intervenes and this being the holiday season the responses are a little slow. Evern with the Internet we tend to be impatient. Remeber what it was just 6-7 years ago?
Until then, Joanie and I wish everyone the happiest of the Holiday Season,
DW
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Thanks Dan... have a good trip and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year :cheers:
JL222
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For me, its pretty easy still battling the "bolts backing out of adapter plate issue" :( uuugghhhh.
Items needed, Helmet, head restraint, Santa brought me a pair of gloves and arm restraints!
Question on Lexan though......
Since tint wont stick to it, will Spray tint stick to it?
TIA and hope that everyone had a Merry Christmas!
Clay
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I doubt if the spray tint would keep it from shattering. Look into the clear film they use on the fronts of motor homes, tough stuff and comes in large sheets.
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You don't need anything on Lexan to keep it from shattering. It won't. Plexi on the other hand can be as dangerous or even more dangerous than glass. Don't use it!
Pete
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Can you use any polycarbonate sheet or does it have to be Lexan.
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Lexan is a brand name for one company's polycarbonate. What you're looking for is polycarbonate. The best type for our purposes is Margard or an equivalent which is scratch resistant, probably because of a coating.
Pete
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My apoligies, I should have been clearer. What I am thinking of is tinting the lexan, the sheet that I have is clear, and I thought about applying tint or spraying the lexan just for pure cosmetic purposes.
Also, what about using pop rivets to hold the lexan in, or would it be better to use screw and nuts?
TIA
Clay
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Also, what about using pop rivets to hold the lexan in, or would it be better to use screw and nuts?
Properly sized pop rivets with backing washers should provide adequate retention and dont think they will be a problem with the inspectors. I dont really think they are better, just an alternative.
I have used rivets on my windshield, along with the 200mph tabs and have had zero problems or questions from inspectors about their use.
Note:
I use a 1/4" Lexan type polycarbonate (Bayer Makrolon) and recommend a minimum of 1/4" for the windshield.
Markrolon can be purchased tinted in various degrees and colors (and likely others however I dont know). You may be better off buying a pre tinted piece (*this is your call however). I am really happy with my pre-tinted plastic.
If you need any tips for making the windshield send me a mail.
~JH
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My choice would be to use 10/32 buttonhead (or countersunk) fasteners with nylok nuts (and washers). If you need to remove the windshield (or other-located window), you don't risk "wallering out" :-D the holes in either the lexan or the frame, as you do when removing rivets inexpertly with a drill. vic
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Vic,
"inexpertly" :evil: I have a too for that.. :evil: A Hammer lol
Hope you had a good Christmas,,, we got 6+ inches of snow.
Come see me later in this week,, I am off all week.
Charles