Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage Rules Questions => Topic started by: johnbeck on October 20, 2010, 12:20:24 PM
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Since land speed racing is about going fast and setting records , or doing your personal best , I would like to hear what you all would say to putting a stop to all the engine class jumping in the championship chase.
I think it might be interesting to see how racers could improve their speed with tunning and driving skills.
I am not taking anything away from those who do class jump or their accomplishments , but most of us don't do it.
Or maybe a seperate points system for those who run the same engine class all year. I mean , in reallity there is only a handfull of cars doing this right?
Don't get me wrong , I am not saying what is wrong or right , just throwing it out there thats all.
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John dont you guys have any 300 MPR roadsters to build I would think the phone would be ringing :wink:
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I thought class jumping for points wasn't allowed anyway. :-P
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The boy's and I were just talking about that this last weekend. I was telling them how "bad" it was in the past when some clubs ran their street vehicles to gain points. We didn't take just the top 3 points earners then.
I like the concept John but don't know how you'd implement it.
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Well Mike , could we take it to the club meeting and vote on it? I think thats how its done.
Send the reps to their meeting and then the other clubs will vote on it?
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John,
If they are racing the same car/bike what will it affect or who if you make the vehicles stay all year in one class? I stayed all year in Blown Fuel and Blown Gas with the same engine..with a 200mph vehicle we can start in the 2 line as long as we have gone 200+ in that class same as the 511 car?
What exactly is the issue as I am not sure what the problem is?
Have you run the car in the class you ran at Bonneville so you can run out of the two line or will you swap numbers from another car so you have better starting position if you bring it to El mirage next month?
Just make up a nice award/trophy and give it to your team.. :-D
Congrats again on the runs at B-Ville :-o Wished I would have been able to see them, any in car cameras while making those historic runs?
See you next month..this month is done..
Noonan
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We were thinking of building a Pickup where all we would have to do is drop out the frt. drive shaft. We were told to hold up the build as they are thinking of dropping the ?????? dropping the frt drive shaft might be easier than changing engs. You think?????????
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Isn't that John's point? Add a drive shaft, drop a drive shaft, blown, unblown, air dam added, air dam off. Six classes, six meets= easy math.
DW
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DW of course. It sounds like we may soon have a "CLASSIC RULE" for all classes.
I sure understand why for EL M points race it would make sense to stay in the Body classification you entered the 1st meet for the season--
As opposed to BMP, MP by removing a blower. Or especially MP or PP just by droping a driveshaft. You guys know the ins and out of EL M---much better than me. We were just trying to come up with a program that would be competetive---3 classifications might have gotten it done :-D
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I don't think John was talking about running out of the 200mph line or bettering his position. I think he was talking about making the points race more intresting or more competitive. (not saying that it's not already)
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and by the way John congratulations to you and your team for such a huge accomplisment
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At Elmo the entry name must be the same every time
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"I would like to hear what you all would say to putting a stop to all the engine class jumping in the championship chase."
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It sounds good but there are way too many open minimums that IMO are way too soft. So much easier to get a record in and become a points champion. It would be like sandbagging and not really mean anything.
Tom G.
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"way too many open minimums that IMO are way too soft. So much easier to get a record in and become a points champion"
We only ran on established records.
Let me also classify "easy" for you all.
My 1.5 engine, (H class) that took 2 years to design and build was killed on the dyno two days after the May meet. By killed I mean shrapnel through the whole dry sump system, scored the custom crank, burned rods, bearings in many pieces etc etc. I borrowed Doug's F spare engine to run on for June, July and Bonneville and got rid of the dry sump system as we just couldn't do it reliably, without killing yet more engines (we killed 3 last season). My 1.5 was fixed in time for Bonneville, where my "beloved" husband takes it, thrashes the hell out of it, and eventually kills it again. A valve or valve seat dropped. (We had words about that one). It was re-built yet again, (I needed it for Sept), with a new piston and new head. The F engine, also died due to a radiator failure, which toasted the lot - warping the head and possibly the block.
So to add up the carnage, we have re-built 3 engines this year, been up for testing at the lake each month (except for Sept, cause we were putting in the engine and dynoing the night before) and spent countless hours on the dyno and in the garage doing engine swaps, testing of new parts / systems, updating fire systems (after catching on fire yet again at Bonneville) etc. We have killed many superchargers (KraftWerks must love us) and my kids refer to the parking lot behind the garage, as the play yard. Please don't think that this is/was easy. It takes lots of time and especially commitment and continued enthusiasm from everyone on the team. And then not to mention doing Rod Rider Secretary and SCTA Secretary, Assisting Starter etc etc etc. Easy... yeah right!
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I salute you and your familys effort---sounds like you both get it----Sounds like you understand ---
to be competitive as a record breaker---one must be prepared to break more than you fair share of parts! thats the easy part--breaking the parts :cheers:
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"way too many open minimums that IMO are way too soft. So much easier to get a record in and become a points champion"
We only ran on established records.
Let me also classify "easy" for you all.
My 1.5 engine, (H class) that took 2 years to design and build was killed on the dyno two days after the May meet. By killed I mean shrapnel through the whole dry sump system, scored the custom crank, burned rods, bearings in many pieces etc etc. I borrowed Doug's F spare engine to run on for June, July and Bonneville and got rid of the dry sump system as we just couldn't do it reliably, without killing yet more engines (we killed 3 last season). My 1.5 was fixed in time for Bonneville, where my "beloved" husband takes it, thrashes the hell out of it, and eventually kills it again. A valve or valve seat dropped. (We had words about that one). It was re-built yet again, (I needed it for Sept), with a new piston and new head. The F engine, also died due to a radiator failure, which toasted the lot - warping the head and possibly the block.
So to add up the carnage, we have re-built 3 engines this year, been up for testing at the lake each month (except for Sept, cause we were putting in the engine and dynoing the night before) and spent countless hours on the dyno and in the garage doing engine swaps, testing of new parts / systems, updating fire systems (after catching on fire yet again at Bonneville) etc. We have killed many superchargers (KraftWerks must love us) and my kids refer to the parking lot behind the garage, as the play yard. Please don't think that this is/was easy. It takes lots of time and especially commitment and continued enthusiasm from everyone on the team. And then not to mention doing Rod Rider Secretary and SCTA Secretary, Assisting Starter etc etc etc. Easy... yeah right!
Miriam,
I was not referring to you or your championship. My point is that if you cannot jump engine classes IMO there are soft open minimums, in both car and bike classes that IMO would be easier to set records in then other engine classes. No offense intended.
Tom G.
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"way too many open minimums that IMO are way too soft. So much easier to get a record in and become a points champion"
We only ran on established records.
Let me also classify "easy" for you all.
My 1.5 engine, (H class) that took 2 years to design and build was killed on the dyno two days after the May meet. By killed I mean shrapnel through the whole dry sump system, scored the custom crank, burned rods, bearings in many pieces etc etc. I borrowed Doug's F spare engine to run on for June, July and Bonneville and got rid of the dry sump system as we just couldn't do it reliably, without killing yet more engines (we killed 3 last season). My 1.5 was fixed in time for Bonneville, where my "beloved" husband takes it, thrashes the hell out of it, and eventually kills it again. A valve or valve seat dropped. (We had words about that one). It was re-built yet again, (I needed it for Sept), with a new piston and new head. The F engine, also died due to a radiator failure, which toasted the lot - warping the head and possibly the block.
So to add up the carnage, we have re-built 3 engines this year, been up for testing at the lake each month (except for Sept, cause we were putting in the engine and dynoing the night before) and spent countless hours on the dyno and in the garage doing engine swaps, testing of new parts / systems, updating fire systems (after catching on fire yet again at Bonneville) etc. We have killed many superchargers (KraftWerks must love us) and my kids refer to the parking lot behind the garage, as the play yard. Please don't think that this is/was easy. It takes lots of time and especially commitment and continued enthusiasm from everyone on the team. And then not to mention doing Rod Rider Secretary and SCTA Secretary, Assisting Starter etc etc etc. Easy... yeah right!
Miriam,
"Easy"
Yeah right..tell them...now go 1-2-3-4 in the points with the same engines and see how "easy" it is.
Congrats to you, your team, sponsors and supporters.. :cheers: If it was easy more would do it. :wink:
Noonan
PS. Thank you for what you are doing with the SCTA, you are taking on a very active role and as I have told you before in person, THANK YOU.
J
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Great post Miriam. Shows the commintment to win, even in SCTA. There is nothing easy about it (or cheap).
Those that wish to change the system need to put wheels on the race track. You can't win the championship driving the keyboard.
DW
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Usually I see new guys on here complaining that the minimums are to high. Want them lowered to what ever speed the car is now running. Guess it depends which side of the fence your looking from.
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Those Hondata cars are simply amazing. The speeds they are going just blows my mind. Obviosly they are pushing them hard to run the speeds that they are and I can see the reason for engine swapping to stay in the chase. It just so happens that the engine they swap to can put 10 , 20 , or 30 mph on the record.
My C/BG engine stayed together for the 4 races we got in this year and I was planning to kick up the boost in Oct. and again in Nov. Would it have stayed together? We will never know now but my point is I was looking to improve my speeds by tuning and trying to drive better in order to move up in the points. It would have probely ben easyer to drop in my B engine and pick up some more points that way because the record is soft now.
Not everybody has 2 or 3 engines for there car or bike , so to compete for the championship with the current rules those that do have an advantage. I can see just a fuel swap like a C/GR to a C/FR can be easly done unless you have a street roadster where there is no fuel class.
Don't get me wrong , I think the last few points champs really worked hard and deserved the crown , I just think it would open up the competition to more competitors who could enjoy the competition of the points chase.
Go ahead , fire away , I just want to say I really , really love this sport and allmost all of the people involved.
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As a former player in the elusive #1 points chase at El Mirage I have never seen anyone back into it. We ran Chrysler,De Soto, and Dodge Hemi's blown and un-blown on fuel the year Bob Haselwerdt and I got lucky. Some folks have done it more than one time and my hat is off to them. That SCTA life membership is expensive and time consuming.
There was a perception that someone could sandbag on an open record(s) when the many new classes were added over the years and the minimums were established. I personally dont think there are any soft minimums. My AA/Gas Lakester that cant find impound is running 190 on a 223 record. If I change to fuel the minimum is 270. Anyone want to supply a bullet to catch that softy? I would love to visit Dan Warner in impound instead of just visiting at cocktail hour.
Monte Wolfe
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Usually I see new guys on here complaining that the minimums are to high. Want them lowered to what ever speed the car is now running. Guess it depends which side of the fence your looking from.
Rich this is not directed at you, this is for all the non believers on the soft open minimums.
I am just being realistic. Look at all the Roadster classes that is a perfect example of soft open minimums in the REMR class. Lets pick one of many examples.
C/Blown Gas Roadster current record is 229.373, C/BGRM open minimum 200.000, B/BGRM open minimum 210.000. A/BGRM open minimum 220.000, AA/BGRM open minimum 230.000. I could go on but this gives you an idea of what I am talking about. Now I suppose someone will say a REMR is less aero than a Roadster. LOL
Tom G.
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Now I suppose someone will say a REMR is less aero than a Roadster. LOL
Tom G.
Tom, you know they are. :evil: Tony
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Tom,
Do you think the minimums were placed at those levels to promote participation?
If they are so soft why not yet broken? Or, a second question - Are there too many classes for the number of vehicles built?
Please refer to my last comment from earlier today, re: winning from the keyboard.
DW
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winning from the keyboard.
DW
Funny you should write that Dan. Earlier this this evening I was tucked right down on the keyboard and I clocked 241.759.
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winning from the keyboard.
DW
Funny you should write that Dan. Earlier this this evening I was tucked right down on the keyboard and I clocked 241.759.
I only went 240.019 so you have me beat.. :-D
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Tom,
Do you think the minimums were placed at those levels to promote participation?
If they are so soft why not yet broken? Or, a second question - Are there too many classes for the number of vehicles built?
Please refer to my last comment from earlier today, re: winning from the keyboard.
DW
Do you think the minimums were placed at those levels to promote participation?
Why would you put minimums below what slower class vehicles have run. It does not make sense, especially when a points race is in effect? Or are you actually confirming what I am saying.
If they are so soft why not yet broken? Or, a second question - Are there too many classes for the number of vehicles built?
You know the answer to that, it is a new class and not many vehicles have been constructed that run at El Mirage.
And Yes on the second part.
Please refer to my last comment from earlier today, re: winning from the keyboard.
Dan, if you go back and read the very first post on this thread, John asked the question "I would like to hear what you all would say to putting a stop to all the engine class jumping in the championship chase." All I did was express my opinion. I guess I don't get what this has to do with winning from the keyboard, it went over my head.
Now if you are asking when I will bring a car back out and race at El Mirage, I can tell you I will when my financial situation improves. The last couple of years hit me pretty hard in the pocket and took all my fun money. Since I pay for everything on my own dime I will just wait.
Tom G.
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John, My computer has a Charlie Toy app. Makes a big difference.
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N592 & Noonan:
If you'd like trophies for your new record keyboard speeds, please contact me (pm is best) to help design the award and figure out what you'd like it to say. Oh, don't forget that I'll need to know if you're using a desktop or laptop keyboard, and whether it's a wireless or the old-fashioned hard-wired type of keyboard,
Didn't think of this, did you, Dan?
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Mac or PC? If PC, what operating system? :mrgreen:
Mike
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Its a HP Pavillion. I originally bought the computer because i thought HP stood for horse power. The operating system is a Windshield XP.
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No Jon,
I didn't think of this. Just doesn't blow my skirt up, way off topic.
DW
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Sorry Dan. I put it down to frustration at not getting to race last weekend. I have an opinion on the points chase at El Mirage but my opinion won't change anything. I'll go stand in the corner for ten minutes.
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592,
Please do not hold your opinions to yourself. Contact either your club president or Mike Waters to submit a change to the El Mirage Procedures committee. They will be taking suggestions in the very near future.
If you have trouble going that route please forward to me and I will get it thru the process.
Our association is for the racer, by the racer and any input is welcome.
DW